#HerGameToo

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Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I'm happy with that. My conscience is pricked. I feel there is a cause to support. I'm virtue signalling. I'd happily be described as an activist. That's roughly how I see myself. I think of it more like - showing solidarity in order to show solidarity. But, I'm happy with your description

(The Ellen White MBE thing though, funny as fuck)
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You are a 'box ticker' simple as. If there is a box to tick to show all the peeps on the internet what a great person you are and what a fantastic life you have, you'll tick it.
 

pommpey said:
Which proves what, exactly? Males at a younger age are better than females at an older age?

What is the point? Women's football is at a different status. Besides, much of that USA team were reserves. And it was a 'friendly'.

pommpey
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Easy tiger. Just responding to a couple of posts.
I don’t know whether the Dallas U15s were at full strength 💪
 
Linz said:
Marvellous... can we have toilets that flush properly and running water in the sinks?

Kinda important for the "women's matchday experience".
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Being very late to the thread, and having skimmed through most of it, it sort of strikes me that all jokes aside it's often practical things like this that get lost when they should be top of the to-do list.

Different thing, but my first match was as an 8 year old, my Dad hadn't been in years and thought it might be fun (this would ultimately be the Palace play-off final season, so what would he know?). We get in the ground, he takes me to go get a drink, and somewhat reasonably asked if they had any sweets. After looking confused, scurrying around, the lad behind the counter found a bag of "Eskimo mints" which me and my Dad still joke about today as to how anyone could make a mint so thoroughly sad and unpleasant. The football itself still hooked me, but I can't help but think how shitty that was.

Fast forward through the years, we now have a "family stand" where they actually have sweets (rare I go on the John Street so I don't know how good any of it is). Point being, you want to get family's in then it's not all about ideology, it's about creating facilities that actually cater to families. When I watched the Women's Euros, I couldn't help but notice a lot of kids in the stands on the telly with things like...popcorn. Kids like popcorn. You want families in, cater for families.

I remember taking my Nan and Grandad, and my Grandad needed a slash as often as old blokes do and that was the biggest concern and obstacle. Not "Will someone say a naughty word?" but "Will I be alright getting an 89yo whose had a few hernia ops to the bogs if he needs to?". Ended up we'd go in very early, and hang around until most people had left after the game, and even that was a bit awkward.

Getting to the point, how many people does football lose because of basic standards? I'm all for the ideology and trying to open up football to more people, but if you aren't going to provide basic sanitary conditions, how much does that shrink your target audience of women? Trying to change people's minds and attitudes is great but it's hard. Providing basic sanitation so that people who aren't die hard football fans are actually willing to put up with it might be more effective.

That's my issue with movements like this. Not that I disagree with the goal, or the promotion of women in football, but that oftentimes clubs and organising bodies will use them to adopt the aesthetic of caring about issues meanwhile not even doing the simple things of providing a decent toilet for fans who need basic facilities. All the hashtags and slogans in the world miss that until football grounds provide a basic standard for people that it's not going to draw many new audiences in.
 
PokerBlade said:
Being very late to the thread, and having skimmed through most of it, it sort of strikes me that all jokes aside it's often practical things like this that get lost when they should be top of the to-do list.

Different thing, but my first match was as an 8 year old, my Dad hadn't been in years and thought it might be fun (this would ultimately be the Palace play-off final season, so what would he know?). We get in the ground, he takes me to go get a drink, and somewhat reasonably asked if they had any sweets. After looking confused, scurrying around, the lad behind the counter found a bag of "Eskimo mints" which me and my Dad still joke about today as to how anyone could make a mint so thoroughly sad and unpleasant. The football itself still hooked me, but I can't help but think how shitty that was.

Fast forward through the years, we now have a "family stand" where they actually have sweets (rare I go on the John Street so I don't know how good any of it is). Point being, you want to get family's in then it's not all about ideology, it's about creating facilities that actually cater to families. When I watched the Women's Euros, I couldn't help but notice a lot of kids in the stands on the telly with things like...popcorn. Kids like popcorn. You want families in, cater for families.

I remember taking my Nan and Grandad, and my Grandad needed a slash as often as old blokes do and that was the biggest concern and obstacle. Not "Will someone say a naughty word?" but "Will I be alright getting an 89yo whose had a few hernia ops to the bogs if he needs to?". Ended up we'd go in very early, and hang around until most people had left after the game, and even that was a bit awkward.

Getting to the point, how many people does football lose because of basic standards? I'm all for the ideology and trying to open up football to more people, but if you aren't going to provide basic sanitary conditions, how much does that shrink your target audience of women? Trying to change people's minds and attitudes is great but it's hard. Providing basic sanitation so that people who aren't die hard football fans are actually willing to put up with it might be more effective.

That's my issue with movements like this. Not that I disagree with the goal, or the promotion of women in football, but that oftentimes clubs and organising bodies will use them to adopt the aesthetic of caring about issues meanwhile not even doing the simple things of providing a decent toilet for fans who need basic facilities. All the hashtags and slogans in the world miss that until football grounds provide a basic standard for people that it's not going to draw many new audiences in.
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100%

As Linz said, 'words not actions'

Like so much of this bullshit 'raise awareness' windowdressing, first of all there's a more malevolent political movement behind it and secondly when you examine what the fuck it's meant to achieve (the KPIs) it's more about all the dross around the actuality rather than spelling out that they intend doing, how they're doing it and by what time.

Allowing matchday facilities to slide is a functional business matter and one for the board to sort the fuck out. If they are failing women even in toilets (where generally, the environment one would believe is more accommodating) then that needs addressing immediately.

That said, men's shithouses are pretty fucking rank also

pommpey
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
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That'll change everything, will that.

I can just imagine blokey-blokes who like a bit of Benny Hill and pretty little things who do ironing and stay at home to bring up the kids and cook a nice pie will hold their manhoods cheap and have a fucking complete epiphany about what they are about and just stop being so ruddy sexist. I imagine sponsors and backers will pile raw cash into the women's game and attendances will fucking rocket through the roof at home matches for us and the statue of Derek Dooley being hauled down and thrown in the water down at Heeley Bottom. Just because they put women's faces up on the screens.

It's a bit bobbar on toast, innit?

pommpey
 
PokerBlade said:
Being very late to the thread, and having skimmed through most of it, it sort of strikes me that all jokes aside it's often practical things like this that get lost when they should be top of the to-do list.

Different thing, but my first match was as an 8 year old, my Dad hadn't been in years and thought it might be fun (this would ultimately be the Palace play-off final season, so what would he know?). We get in the ground, he takes me to go get a drink, and somewhat reasonably asked if they had any sweets. After looking confused, scurrying around, the lad behind the counter found a bag of "Eskimo mints" which me and my Dad still joke about today as to how anyone could make a mint so thoroughly sad and unpleasant. The football itself still hooked me, but I can't help but think how shitty that was.

Fast forward through the years, we now have a "family stand" where they actually have sweets (rare I go on the John Street so I don't know how good any of it is). Point being, you want to get family's in then it's not all about ideology, it's about creating facilities that actually cater to families. When I watched the Women's Euros, I couldn't help but notice a lot of kids in the stands on the telly with things like...popcorn. Kids like popcorn. You want families in, cater for families.

I remember taking my Nan and Grandad, and my Grandad needed a slash as often as old blokes do and that was the biggest concern and obstacle. Not "Will someone say a naughty word?" but "Will I be alright getting an 89yo whose had a few hernia ops to the bogs if he needs to?". Ended up we'd go in very early, and hang around until most people had left after the game, and even that was a bit awkward.

Getting to the point, how many people does football lose because of basic standards? I'm all for the ideology and trying to open up football to more people, but if you aren't going to provide basic sanitary conditions, how much does that shrink your target audience of women? Trying to change people's minds and attitudes is great but it's hard. Providing basic sanitation so that people who aren't die hard football fans are actually willing to put up with it might be more effective.

That's my issue with movements like this. Not that I disagree with the goal, or the promotion of women in football, but that oftentimes clubs and organising bodies will use them to adopt the aesthetic of caring about issues meanwhile not even doing the simple things of providing a decent toilet for fans who need basic facilities. All the hashtags and slogans in the world miss that until football grounds provide a basic standard for people that it's not going to draw many new audiences in.
Click to expand...
Toilets. Bloody hell this country and toilets. How difficult is it to provide clean and working toilet facilities in 2023? There are basically almost no public toilets anymore. Half the pubs you go in you'd not want to sit down in a toilet. Let alone soap or hot water.

We now have city centres that have nowhere to go unless you take the piss in a shop, café or pub.

Councils should be made to operate functioning free or very cheap toilets. 20p is reasonable. You only really get them in places where children go or tourist spots.

How many public toilets could Sheffield Council maintain over a 5 year period for the cost of a container park?
 
Linz said:
Maybe they can offer us cheaper/free tickets like they apparently used to in Spain in order to encourage women to attend games? That would be lovely!

Certainly reports like this make it seem like there is a problem in some places with more serious things than hurty words:

www.bbc.co.uk

'Violated and frightened' - why women need to feel safer at football matches

Her Game Too is highlighting how women can feel intimidated at football matches and how more needs to be done to make them feel safer and included.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

I'm not entirely sure a hashtag is going to make the kind of cunt who believes all women are fair game for a grope think again though.
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I'm guessing nothing anything does can change the attitude of that cunt but if it helps change the attitude of those around him, who can knock him out, that might help.

As you say though, actions are louder than words and the facilities at most football clubs are shit, especially the female ones.
 
robbiez666 said:
Toilets. Bloody hell this country and toilets. How difficult is it to provide clean and working toilet facilities in 2023? There are basically almost no public toilets anymore. Half the pubs you go in you'd not want to sit down in a toilet. Let alone soap or hot water.

We now have city centres that have nowhere to go unless you take the piss in a shop, café or pub.

Councils should be made to operate functioning free or very cheap toilets. 20p is reasonable. You only really get them in places where children go or tourist spots.

How many public toilets could Sheffield Council maintain over a 5 year period for the cost of a container park?
Click to expand...

The council couldn't run a bath. So expecting them to provide toilets is too much to ask. As discussed elsewhere, our council are doing everything they can to stop people going to town nevermind actually providing a place for people to have a crap.
 
Bladesman said:
The council couldn't run a bath. So expecting them to provide toilets is too much to ask. As discussed elsewhere, our council are doing everything they can to stop people going to town nevermind actually providing a place for people to have a crap.
Click to expand...

True.

However, given public facilities can often be used as a convenient overnight stay, a meeting place for bum trunky and a myriad of other evolutions aside from getting rid of your waste products and are easy targets for vandalism, it's possibly understandable why investment is so poor

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
True.

However, given public facilities can often be used as a convenient overnight stay, a meeting place for bum trunky and a myriad of other evolutions aside from getting rid of your waste products and are easy targets for vandalism, it's possibly understandable why investment is so poor

pommpey
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Look, If I want to have a shag or a kip in the public bogs then its my right as a tax payer goddammit!
 
Bladesman said:
Look, If I want to have a shag or a kip in the public bogs then its my right as a tax payer goddammit!
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it's when you're trying to take a piss and some bloke is sausaging another up the out-end in the third trap, door-open, replete with grunts and sighs that the whole spectacle takes on a darker meaning.

*Surrey Street bogs under the police box by the Town Hall in 1980

pommpey
 

pommpey said:
Not at all.

As for 'tackling sexism', sure, there are still dinosaurs who insist football is solely a 'man's game'. Do they occupy any spheres of influence? Nope, thank fuck. How loud is their voice? I'd say again, thankfully silent. Attitudes to people like these have changed and won't change back, ever. Is football completely wide open in participation, administration, officiating and coaching to both sexes and gender-types? Yes, definitely. And given the catch up rate, it won't even be ten years before we see our first female managed male league sides. Will we see females playing alongside males? Depends on physiology. It should never be ruled out.

'Championing women in Sports'? Fuck me - the women's England team last year lifted the first international cup for fifty years. Champions. Deserved champions too. Females all over the country are kicking footballs around parks and schools because of this and what has been happening in football because of heroes like Beth Mead, Lucy Bronze, Steph Houghton, Millie Bright and countless others. Bring it on. See also other sports where women are significantly spectacular - cricket, golf, rugby, equestrian, swimming, athletics, tennis ... all previously regarded as 'blokes only'. They aren't and now never will be,

We don't need to over-egg the revolution that is and has been happening. Women don't need championing. They play sport and play sport well, in many cases better than men. It's not 'HerGame'; it's 'EveryonesGame'

pommpey
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pommpey said:
Not at all.

As for 'tackling sexism', sure, there are still dinosaurs who insist football is solely a 'man's game'. Do they occupy any spheres of influence? Nope, thank fuck. How loud is their voice? I'd say again, thankfully silent. Attitudes to people like these have changed and won't change back, ever. Is football completely wide open in participation, administration, officiating and coaching to both sexes and gender-types? Yes, definitely. And given the catch up rate, it won't even be ten years before we see our first female managed male league sides. Will we see females playing alongside males? Depends on physiology. It should never be ruled out.

'Championing women in Sports'? Fuck me - the women's England team last year lifted the first international cup for fifty years. Champions. Deserved champions too. Females all over the country are kicking footballs around parks and schools because of this and what has been happening in football because of heroes like Beth Mead, Lucy Bronze, Steph Houghton, Millie Bright and countless others. Bring it on. See also other sports where women are significantly spectacular - cricket, golf, rugby, equestrian, swimming, athletics, tennis ... all previously regarded as 'blokes only'. They aren't and now never will be,

We don't need to over-egg the revolution that is and has been happening. Women don't need championing. They play sport and play sport well, in many cases better than men. It's not 'HerGame'; it's 'EveryonesGame'

pommpey
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Quality post.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
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What will be the outcome of this?

(prepares self for raft of 'raise awareness' statements, each as empty as the inflation bladders in the footballs women are kicking about)

I know what you're doing Phil. It's becoming known as 'trigger tactics', specifically flooding social media and broadcasting, flag waving and blowing trumpets so your 'political enemies' (James O'Brien created 'gammons', yet strangely in the political majority when it comes to baseline opinion, which is why the fucking tories are STILL in) and it's aimed at the new bogeymen in society, isn't it?

The bad part is that when the issue is held up to the sunlight and the question 'so what?' is ranged, you haven't got an answer. Everything I have asked you, you have deflected onto a weak argument about Ellen White being in support, when my point about her was she is a footballer (and a good one) well beyond an advocate of your daft, pointless and aimless cause.

Feel free. Tell us how Oldham are supporting and the worryingly few clubs aligning themselves with this (one would think that they will be saying 'but we've got a women's football initiative, subscribe to countless anti-racism and anti-discrimination initiatives so why this?')

I refer to the top. 'What will your posting up of that and today's statement achieve for women in football and which of those piss weak Objectives and KPIs will it satisfy?'

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
What will be the outcome of this?

(prepares self for raft of 'raise awareness' statements, each as empty as the inflation bladders in the footballs women are kicking about)

I know what you're doing Phil. It's becoming known as 'trigger tactics', specifically flooding social media and broadcasting, flag waving and blowing trumpets so your 'political enemies' (James O'Brien created 'gammons', yet strangely in the political majority when it comes to baseline opinion, which is why the fucking tories are STILL in) and it's aimed at the new bogeymen in society, isn't it?

The bad part is that when the issue is held up to the sunlight and the question 'so what?' is ranged, you haven't got an answer. Everything I have asked you, you have deflected onto a weak argument about Ellen White being in support, when my point about her was she is a footballer (and a good one) well beyond an advocate of your daft, pointless and aimless cause.

Feel free. Tell us how Oldham are supporting and the worryingly few clubs aligning themselves with this (one would think that they will be saying 'but we've got a women's football initiative, subscribe to countless anti-racism and anti-discrimination initiatives so why this?')

I refer to the top. 'What will your posting up of that and today's statement achieve for women in football and which of those piss weak Objectives and KPIs will it satisfy?'

pommpey
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I'm afraid I can't answer your questions. I don't really support #HerGameToo. I've been ... (checks earlier posts) ... forced into it against my will like Ellen White.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I'm afraid I can't answer your questions. I don't really support #HerGameToo. I've been ... (checks earlier posts) ... forced into it against my will like Ellen White.
Click to expand...

More the truth is, you don't have valid answers. Chicane all you want, but this movement will achieve nada and is there for people to just pat themselves on the back and say 'it's an outrage'.

pommpey
 
Iliman is added to the list of Heckingbottom & Ellen White who simply #REFUSE to understand the weight of argument about the KPIs.

 
This #her missed it all by staying out for an extra pint and needing a wee at half time.

My matchday experience has been much the same.

I'm even (gasp) sitting on my own as it seems everyone around me has neshed out with the weather.
 
Linz said:
This #her missed it all by staying out for an extra pint and needing a wee at half time.

My matchday experience has been much the same.

I'm even (gasp) sitting on my own as it seems everyone around me has neshed out with the weather.
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#Pray4Linz

wears t-shirt

pommpey
 

pommpey said:
'Pledged'

What the actual fuck does that mean?

pommpey
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True "coincidence" story.

The guy with the Season Ticket next to mine swapped his ticket yesterday as he had other people coming with him. Consequently, his seat was up for general sale. A lovely bloke bought it & sat next to me. We exchanged pleasantries, he told me he posts on this Forum. I said - so do I. His first question was...

You're not pommpey are you?

I couldn't help myself - "yes, how did you guess?"
 
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