#HerGameToo

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I'm glad to see this, we've had a bad experience with my daughter in grassroots football, it worked out for the best and she's now playing at a level that suits her and where she's thriving, but lots of clubs (grassroots and professional) make the right noises on this issue but then do the opposite when it comes to the crunch.
 
Linz said:
Marvellous... can we have toilets that flush properly and running water in the sinks?

Kinda important for the "women's matchday experience".
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There's no flushing bogs or running water in the mens in the SS either, that's not discrimination, it's just cheapness. There's been a lack of soap and hand towels the last few games as well.
 
Running water and flushes that work would be desireable, however I do think the club need to look at the ratio of mens to womens toilets. Every time I go past the queue for the ladies in the SS, I thank god that I'm a man (and identify as one, just to be clear).

It's obviously wrong if any woman is being paid less to do the same job as a man. If it's to do with progression, then you'd hope that any recruitment is on the merits of the best person that is qualified to do that job, regardless of gender or any other minority groups.

I'm probably going to invite some grief here, but it annoys me when I see job adverts with "We particularly welcome applications from Women/Disabled/Ethnic groups". Why not just say "We particularly welcome applications to those best qualified to do the job, regardless of x/y and z" or "We are an Equal Opportunities Employer"... if you have to say anything at all.
 
derekacorah said:
There's no flushing bogs or running water in the mens in the SS either, that's not discrimination, it's just cheapness. There's been a lack of soap and hand towels the last few games as well.
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The “lock” on the Kop bog used to be an outstretched leg and foot if you ever had the misfortune of having to have a “sit down visit”.
 
Linz said:
Marvellous... can we have toilets that flush properly and running water in the sinks?

Kinda important for the "women's matchday experience".
Click to expand...

Ffs Linz , the Prince isn't made of money...

Ask Dozy. Pretty sure Tingo Welfare will have you covered.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
As will happen, posters taking this thread down a few different avenues.
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Not at all.

As for 'tackling sexism', sure, there are still dinosaurs who insist football is solely a 'man's game'. Do they occupy any spheres of influence? Nope, thank fuck. How loud is their voice? I'd say again, thankfully silent. Attitudes to people like these have changed and won't change back, ever. Is football completely wide open in participation, administration, officiating and coaching to both sexes and gender-types? Yes, definitely. And given the catch up rate, it won't even be ten years before we see our first female managed male league sides. Will we see females playing alongside males? Depends on physiology. It should never be ruled out.

'Championing women in Sports'? Fuck me - the women's England team last year lifted the first international cup for fifty years. Champions. Deserved champions too. Females all over the country are kicking footballs around parks and schools because of this and what has been happening in football because of heroes like Beth Mead, Lucy Bronze, Steph Houghton, Millie Bright and countless others. Bring it on. See also other sports where women are significantly spectacular - cricket, golf, rugby, equestrian, swimming, athletics, tennis ... all previously regarded as 'blokes only'. They aren't and now never will be,

We don't need to over-egg the revolution that is and has been happening. Women don't need championing. They play sport and play sport well, in many cases better than men. It's not 'HerGame'; it's 'EveryonesGame'

pommpey
 

pommpey said:
Not at all.

As for 'tackling sexism', sure, there are still dinosaurs who insist football is solely a 'man's game'. Do they occupy any spheres of influence? Nope, thank fuck. How loud is their voice? I'd say again, thankfully silent. Attitudes to people like these have changed and won't change back, ever. Is football completely wide open in participation, administration, officiating and coaching to both sexes and gender-types? Yes, definitely. And given the catch up rate, it won't even be ten years before we see our first female managed male league sides. Will we see females playing alongside males? Depends on physiology. It should never be ruled out.

'Championing women in Sports'? Fuck me - the women's England team last year lifted the first international cup for fifty years. Champions. Deserved champions too. Females all over the country are kicking footballs around parks and schools because of this and what has been happening in football because of heroes like Beth Mead, Lucy Bronze, Steph Houghton, Millie Bright and countless others. Bring it on. See also other sports where women are significantly spectacular - cricket, golf, rugby, equestrian, swimming, athletics, tennis ... all previously regarded as 'blokes only'. They aren't and now never will be,

We don't need to over-egg the revolution that is and has been happening. Women don't need championing. They play sport and play sport well, in many cases better than men. It's not 'HerGame'; it's 'EveryonesGame'

pommpey
Click to expand...
How would you react if I said - your post sounds like you feel an initiative like #HerGameToo is not necessary?

Do you even feel such an initiative might be counter productive?
 
pommpey said:
And given the catch up rate, it won't even be ten years before we see our first female managed male league sides. Will we see females playing alongside males? Depends on physiology. It should never be ruled out.
Click to expand...

The 1st female manager would be an interesting experiment.
Could be a big success breaking down barriers or a total disaster building up the barriers.

Some men are full of testosterone and can be quite confrontational.
Some (due to their culture) will find it difficult being reprimanded by a women. Some will find it difficult to initially give respect.
Would the female manager be able to be confrontational and be aggressive when required. What about dressing room banter and jokes?
It's possible but there would be additional difficulties, so the female manager would need to be very special, also you'd need a club owner to be brave.

Agree women playing alongside men should never be ruled out, would love to see it but I can't see it ever happening.
The current top international female players have the strength of 16 year old boys.
The skill level might become comparable to the mens but surely it would be impossible to compete due to natural genetics.
It's like saying one day a 16 year old school boy team would be able to compete against a mens league team.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
How would you react if I said - your post sounds like you feel an initiative like #HerGameToo is not necessary?

Do you even feel such an initiative might be counter productive?
Click to expand...
To celebrate International Women's Day, Sheffield United is delighted to announce a new and exciting partnership with #HerGameToo, an organisation which aims to highlight and combat sexism in football.

If, for instance, my daughter wants to play football I'd like to be able to contact an organisation which tells us about Leagues, teams to play for (all-girls or mixed), training nights and maybe a few other things we haven't thought of.

What she really doesn't need is an infantilising, disempowering white knight, telling her she's a victim and coming to her rescue.

I don't know what #HerGameToo are like, themselves, as an organisation, but for me whoever wrote that blurb on the United website is as much of a dinosaur as anyone from, say, the 70s.
 
Over time, I've been struck by what #HerGameToo have said about the experience of female fans.

pommpey has talked up the success of women's teams and increased participation levels. (I'll allow myself the aside - talking up the success of women's teams IS championing women in sports, one of the stated aims of the initiative).

Ned the Donkey has talked about information that might help his daughter with playing the game.

But, #HerGameToo lead their strategy with information relating to online and in person abuse because of football and/or while watching football.

That is a different point to success of women's teams or issues around playing participation. It's about the fan experience, the terrace culture. It simply feels like it's something closer to me - because it's about other fans, here on this forum, or in the ground sat in the row in front.

It's for that reason I want to throw my support behind the initiative.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
How would you react if I said - your post sounds like you feel an initiative like #HerGameToo is not necessary?
Click to expand...

I don't think it is necessary. The women's game as with other women's sports will evolve practically and fill it's own space without being subjectively patronised by such a movement. Don't believe me? Take a look at the headlining female trophy lifters from Serena Williams to Lynda Ko. Look at the unbelievable sporting acumen in women's netball and gymnastics. They hold their own and do so without a leg up from society saying 'they are special'. They are only special because they are champions and by the way, behind them are a legion of younger, currently-less-able sportspersons wanting that glory. Why trumpet it because they have a different chromosome mix?
Do you even feel such an initiative might be counter productive?
Click to expand...

It would only be productive if we had a #HisGame movement too. Yeah, that sounds fucking ridiculous, doesn't it?

As much as we try to move away from the bad-old-sad-old-days, there's always movements like this just to remind us we can't move away from it.

pommpey
 
pommpey said:
I don't think it is necessary. The women's game as with other women's sports will evolve practically and fill it's own space without being subjectively patronised by such a movement. Don't believe me? Take a look at the headlining female trophy lifters from Serena Williams to Lynda Ko. Look at the unbelievable sporting acumen in women's netball and gymnastics. They hold their own and do so without a leg up from society saying 'they are special'. They are only special because they are champions and by the way, behind them are a legion of younger, currently-less-able sportspersons wanting that glory. Why trumpet it because they have a different chromosome mix?


It would only be productive if we had a #HisGame movement too. Yeah, that sounds fucking ridiculous, doesn't it?

As much as we try to move away from the bad-old-sad-old-days, there's always movements like this just to remind us we can't move away from it.

pommpey
Click to expand...
What if I said...

You appear to be criticising an initiative to champion women in sport by championing women in sport.
 
Sheffsteel said:
The 1st female manager would be an interesting experiment.
Could be a big success breaking down barriers or a total disaster building up the barriers.
Click to expand...

So, a 50/50 chance of success. Like we had with Slav, huh?

Some men are full of testosterone and can be quite confrontational.
Some (due to their culture) will find it difficult being reprimanded by a women. Some will find it difficult to initially give respect.
Would the female manager be able to be confrontational and be aggressive when required. What about dressing room banter and jokes?
It's possible but there would be additional difficulties, so the female manager would need to be very special, also you'd need a club owner to be brave.
Click to expand...

Some men find it difficult to impose and adopt a leadership style which has any effect. Some of the best bosses I have worked for in the navy have been women. And they have dealt with entire departments of institutionalised males of varying opinions and attitudes. Leadership and management is not gender specific. Take it from me.

Agree women playing alongside men should never be ruled out, would love to see it but I can't see it ever happening.
Click to expand...

Why?

The current top international female players have the strength of 16 year old boys.
Click to expand...

Females like Steph Houghton? Lucy Bronze? Millie Bright? Ever played football against a female who can actually play? I have.

The skill level might become comparable to the mens but surely it would be impossible to compete due to natural genetics.
Click to expand...

Physiology is one barrier. But it isn't insurmountable. Would you be able to return a serve from Serena Williams? Would you be able to ship a chin shot from (little) Nicola Adams? She'd hit you so many times with hard, accurate, directed shots you'd have GCB ringing in your ears for a week. And she's about eight stone.

It's like saying one day a 16 year old school boy team would be able to compete against a mens league team.
Click to expand...

I'll leave that one hanging without comment. Comparing a WSL team with a team of 16 year olds deserves its own contempt.

pommpey
 
Last edited:
Ned the Donkey said:
What she really doesn't need is an infantilising, disempowering white knight, telling her she's a victim and coming to her rescue.
Click to expand...

Precisely.

Wanna play football? Lets go to the park. We'll skip dressing you in a pink bib with all sorts of virtue signalling shit on it just to make me feel good. Headers and volleys. Three and in.

pommpey
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
That is a different point to success of women's teams or issues around playing participation. It's about the fan experience, the terrace culture. It simply feels like it's something closer to me - because it's about other fans, here on this forum, or in the ground sat in the row in front.

It's for that reason I want to throw my support behind the initiative.
Click to expand...

Our web site says
"United supports #HerGameToo in their mission to ensure that every woman continues to feel comfortable and safe at football matches, especially at Bramall Lane"

The issue about feeling comfortable and safe is very subjective. It needs to be more specific in order to tackle any problems.
For example sometimes the atmosphere at Bramall Lane is very hostile, loads of swearing and verbal threats towards the ref and opposition players.
Do some women feel uncomfortable surrounded by some verbal aggression and passion? but isn't that part of the attraction of the mens game?

I used to go regularly in the 80's and hardly saw any girls on our Kop. However these days we have loads of young girls attending our matches.
So the evidence (participation levels) suggests there isn't any significant issue regards women/ girls at matches.

Although my partner has come with me to the odd United match and she doesn't like the average Neanderthal mentality football fan.
She doesn't really like football but says she much prefers the family friendly more sedate atmosphere she's seen on TV at the womens football games.

A compromise solution could be to potentially expand the ground and have a proper strictly controlled family area with 4K CCTV where aggressive behaviour and swearing is not allowed and results in a ban from that area. This would be an area where any new or more sensitive fan should feel more comfortable.
 

Sheffsteel said:
Our web site says
"United supports #HerGameToo in their mission to ensure that every woman continues to feel comfortable and safe at football matches, especially at Bramall Lane"

The issue about feeling comfortable and safe is very subjective. It needs to be more specific in order to tackle any problems.
For example sometimes the atmosphere at Bramall Lane is very hostile, loads of swearing and verbal threats towards the ref and opposition players.
Do some women feel uncomfortable surrounded by some verbal aggression and passion? but isn't that part of the attraction of the mens game?
Click to expand...

Have you ever felt distinctly unsafe and uneasy in a football crowd? I have. I'm a 16 stone, shaven headed male who many might think twice about taking on in a fist fight but I have literally considered my mortality at times. This isn't about 'make women safe - the men will look after themselves'. This is about making the entire experience safe, exciting, competitive, enjoyable and collective for men, women and kids.

A compromise solution could be to potentially expand the ground and have a proper strictly controlled family area with 4K CCTV where aggressive behaviour and swearing is not allowed and results in a ban from that area. This would be an area where any new or more sensitive fan should feel more comfortable.
Click to expand...

I'd say we - the supporters - and the ground staff and law enforcers have an equal parts collective responsibility to cleanse stadia of negative aspects of supporterdom. This includes coke-sniffing wankers and cunts who treat the ground like their own fiefdom.

pommmpey
 
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