Heckingbottom is not and never was up to this job

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sitwell said:
Utter bollocks, almost every word of it.
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It's not though is it?

The only thing he's glossed over or not given any/enough credit for is last season.
Without Ndiaye would we have gone up? Probs not. But more to the point Hecky kept the club together when allsorts of shit was going on overhead and kept the togetherness which was vital. Without that too we wouldn't have gone up.

But since Newcastle I'm all for a change, it's just not working anymore.
 

Slim Man said:
Great points, totally agree.

The whole culture of the club needs to change, and that's including from the stands, if we want to thrive in the Prem. Even on a more limited budget.

Burnley are without doubt the best equipped to stay up despite their rocky start. They've signed a lot of players when in reality they'd have been better turning their loans into permanents and going from there, the side is basically unrecognizable from the team last year - however last season they changed cultures VERY quickly and pissed the league. It can be done.

It doesn't mean turning into a Swansea or a QPR, as Burnley proved.
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The problem with trying to adopt a PL passing style culture is it's difficult to get this to work in the Championship and in league 1.
In theory your suggestion is a great idea but it rarely comes to fruition. Burnley is a great example of what's possible, but it's a rarity.

Also fans quickly lose patience seeing their team look good, have loads of possession, totally control games but still lose.
We were often decent under Slav but kept losing, we had spells of looking poor under Hecky last season but kept winning.

Another point is that trying to play quality PL style football usually require higher quality players, which cost more.
Playing a more direct/ athletic Championship style means you can buy athletic lower quality players from the lower divisions, on the cheap.

And finally, Wilder was great for us but he started from ground zero.
We were at rock bottom, with no expectation, no pressure, our fans had almost given up ever getting out of league 1.
So Wilder was able to work with relatively little pressure, so he was free to experiment with tactics and formations, like you would in pre-season.
You suspect that anyone replacing Hecky would initially have pressure to show an improvement
and any new manager taking over in the Championship would be under pressure to make a promotion challenge, so it's tough.
 
I think Hecky deserves some credit for getting us up last season with the consequences being pretty bleak if we hadn't and being able to go again after the disappointment at Forest.

He falls into the same bracket as Warnock and Wilder as managers who simply don't have what it takes to succeed right at the top level. They're turd-polishers who squeeze out the best from what's available to them - something they've all done but have been found lacking when it comes to sustaining any success.

Having a few quid always helps but what we did have got "spunked" and we are where we are. begging, borrowing and stealing with players who'll be decent in the Championship next year but in the meantime, we've got another 6 months of crap to sit through.

What has papered over the cracks is that besides the emergence of Ndiaye, Hecky's game changing players in the team have been someone else's - McAtee, Doyle, Gibbs-White. The only permanent signing has been Anel before this season. Our own core of the squad are still Wilder's old guard, haven't been forced down the pecking order and haven't been good enough for a while, they've been carried by others. When they aren't being carried, they're found wanting.

Yes, its bleak being rock bottom of the Premier League losing every week but not being promoted could easily have seen us somewhere near the lower reaches of the Championship without a penny to scratch our arses with and a team of kids getting spanked around by Championship perennials like Preston, Millwall, Cardiff etc. We'd at least be second from bottom if nothing else 😅.

Arsenal is a shot to nothing and simply a game where avoiding embarrassment is a decent outcome. Brighton won't be easy but if we come out of Bournemouth and Wolves without at least one victory, then it might be time for Hecky to go.
 
BobblesBlade said:
Obviously two sets of fans on this forum. Those who would love to see the mighty Blades do well in the Prem and then those who are not really bothered about the football it’s just having a few beers with their mates.
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And then of course there is real life, where the vast majority want to enjoy having a beer with their mates, and see the Blades do well. These folk expect the team to be competitive and put up a fight, but they also recognise the limitations within which the club is operating in the real world. They aren’t happy with the start we’ve made to the season, but they’re not about to start flouncing around like Prima Donnas, pointing the finger at anybody and anything, and banging on and on and on about the same old points.
 
The only slim possibility of staying up is because three other teams could be even more terrible for this level.

Saying people should be angry and not accepting, ignores the reality.

Our squad without injuries isn't good enough. We haven't got the money to compete, period.

Yeah, we can all pick faults with sales, recruitment, timings etc but how many teams stay up with our outlay this summer?

I'm not sure what the Prince's vision truly is but I'm not expecting him to chuck every last penny against the odds and leave us up shit creek next season.

We all want to see us compete more regularly but I really think some are away with the fairies at how much more they feel can be squeezed from this squad at this level.

Bornmuff may well pick up a bit and can probably spend a little in Jan. Burnley maybe too.

We're yet to play any of those in our current relegation league so maybe we should see how those go.
 
Slim Man said:
Which he had to play in anyway at Fulham in the end and was great in

Centre backs can play centre back. Let's not make up daft excuses.
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They’re not daft

And he wasn’t ….. great
 
Carlton Blade said:
But that has nothing to do saying "promotion was in spite of him". That's my issue. He's been poor this year, no argument. The stuff about last year?
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In my opinion he doesn’t change unless it’s forced on him and in a lot of matches individual performance won us the game. I have never thought that he influences the game much at all. If I remember rightly, before Christmas last year it was obvious that certain players were struggling particularly in midfield but he didn’t change it and give macatee and Doyle a proper run in the team for what seemed like an age. When they started playing regularly we improved. We didn’t and don’t have an identity of how we play in my opinion again. This season We are just drifting from one game to the next hoping we get an individual performance that might fluke us a win this season. Maybe I was a little harsh re last season but he and how he set us up just doesn’t give me any hope at all. We can’t just be happy with how things are surely and keeping hold of him just because someone else might be worse is defeatist. It’s just all so dull and depressing. I appreciate that people might not see it the same way but that’s how I see it.
 
SuperBobbyHatton said:
In my opinion he doesn’t change unless it’s forced on him and in a lot of matches individual performance won us the game. I have never thought that he influences the game much at all. If I remember rightly, before Christmas last year it was obvious that certain players were struggling particularly in midfield but he didn’t change it and give macatee and Doyle a proper run in the team for what seemed like an age. When they started playing regularly we improved. We didn’t and don’t have an identity of how we play in my opinion again. This season We are just drifting from one game to the next hoping we get an individual performance that might fluke us a win this season. Maybe I was a little harsh re last season but he and how he set us up just doesn’t give me any hope at all. We can’t just be happy with how things are surely and keeping hold of him just because someone else might be worse is defeatist. It’s just all so dull and depressing. I appreciate that people might not see it the same way but that’s how I see it.
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People aren’t disagreeing that he’s had a mare this season though
 
loveWalrusDaveTheBlade said:
And then of course there is real life, where the vast majority want to enjoy having a beer with their mates, and see the Blades do well. These folk expect the team to be competitive and put up a fight, but they also recognise the limitations within which the club is operating in the real world. They aren’t happy with the start we’ve made to the season, but they’re not about to start flouncing around like Prima Donnas, pointing the finger at anybody and anything, and banging on and on and on about the same old points.
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Shoud probably have a few more pints .... and blur the reality even more!
 
Slim Man said:
It's not though is it?

The only thing he's glossed over or not given any/enough credit for is last season.
Without Ndiaye would we have gone up? Probs not. But more to the point Hecky kept the club together when allsorts of shit was going on overhead and kept the togetherness which was vital. Without that too we wouldn't have gone up.

But since Newcastle I'm all for a change, it's just not working anymore.
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You are right, I should have given him credit for keeping a steady ship during the ownership mess and embargo.
 
Badger Blade said:
I think Hecky deserves some credit for getting us up last season with the consequences being pretty bleak if we hadn't and being able to go again after the disappointment at Forest.

He falls into the same bracket as Warnock and Wilder as managers who simply don't have what it takes to succeed right at the top level. They're turd-polishers who squeeze out the best from what's available to them - something they've all done but have been found lacking when it comes to sustaining any success.

Having a few quid always helps but what we did have got "spunked" and we are where we are. begging, borrowing and stealing with players who'll be decent in the Championship next year but in the meantime, we've got another 6 months of crap to sit through.

What has papered over the cracks is that besides the emergence of Ndiaye, Hecky's game changing players in the team have been someone else's - McAtee, Doyle, Gibbs-White. The only permanent signing has been Anel before this season. Our own core of the squad are still Wilder's old guard, haven't been forced down the pecking order and haven't been good enough for a while, they've been carried by others. When they aren't being carried, they're found wanting.

Yes, its bleak being rock bottom of the Premier League losing every week but not being promoted could easily have seen us somewhere near the lower reaches of the Championship without a penny to scratch our arses with and a team of kids getting spanked around by Championship perennials like Preston, Millwall, Cardiff etc. We'd at least be second from bottom if nothing else 😅.

Arsenal is a shot to nothing and simply a game where avoiding embarrassment is a decent outcome. Brighton won't be easy but if we come out of Bournemouth and Wolves without at least one victory, then it might be time for Hecky to go.
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Good post...agree with the positive outlook, it's all about context.

I've mentioned we often looked poor in spells last season but last season finances were so fragile that we needed a "promotion by any means"
"win at any cost" approach. You have to give Hecky credit for finding a pragmatic solution, he might have known we weren't good to play an open attacking/ positive style, so kept it tight, hoping to rely on some brilliance from N'Diaye, then defend for your lives.
It worked....so no one can complain, he saved us from a financial meltdown...so deserves massive credit and respect.

Some times think our fans naturally compare our situation with Sheff Wed. We're still top dogs in the city and this is likely to last into the near future,
so to some, thats all that matters, that's the height of our ambitions but we should forget about SWFC and strive to become a Brighton or Brentford.

Think an issue that doesn't get mentioned enough is the sneaky tactics hoping to create a closed shop, agreed by the PL club 3 years ago.
Historically the focus was on the starting 11 at a club, the squad players were consider minor/ backup players for injuries.
The old rule was 3 subs to be chosen from a bench of 5.

Then this rule was changed from 5 subs from a bench of 7. This has massively changed the game and the chances for any promoted Championship team to compete because the richer PL all now have 7 top level PL standard on the bench.
If a promoted club (with a normal squad) suffers injuries then it's so difficult to win, realistically promoted clubs need to do a Nottingham Forest and make 20 new signings in their first season, stockpiling any player from anywhere with PL quality.

So Hecky does have a list of valid excuses but that shouldn't give him carte blanche to do whatever and not be performance managed.
Hecky is currently working with one hand behind his back but should still be accountable to ensure everyone is trying their best.
I'd give him until the Bournemouth match and if we consistently produce some Man Utd type performances, then he stays.
But the situation and support for the manager should be constantly and gradually evolving based in what happens on the pitch.

Conversely if we're regularly outclassed with no hope, as though the manager and his players have given up, then we have no choice to make a change.
At the end of the day the Bramall Lane crowd will have a big influence on what happens, sooner or later you'd expect them to turn.
 

SuperBobbyHatton said:
He deserves credit for being a stabilising presence during the financial and ownership troubles last year. I should have given him that.
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He certainly frustrated me at times last season and we don’t get promoted without Ndiaye.

But a lot of relegated teams have fallen apart under the slightest pressure. PH kept the group together and they won pretty much every game they were heavily favored to win despite injuries, no incoming players, public worries over wages etc. He also got us to an FA Cup semi with a run of wildly entertaining and memorable games. All after picking the club up after Slav, at a time where 99% of us assumed the old guard were finished as even competent Championship players.

He’ll always have my respect and warm regards. He’s not a tactical genius or a huge motivator. What he is, is a clever, respectful, tough, honest, talented overseer of tough situations. The sort of person you want running a club, if not always a first XI
 
SuperBobbyHatton said:
I’m going to nail my colours to the mast and just say it…heckingbottom is the luckiest bloke alive. He was in the right place at the right time and fell onto the job of managing us because he was there and wouldn’t rock the boat.
He was barely competent in the championship but had 2 or 3 players, when he actually got round to playing them, who could turn a match round. He persisted with Norwood and fleck even when they were playing consistently badly until he had no choice but to play Macatee and Doyle and things suddenly got better and we started playing well and winning more, who could have known!! I would say, I know some people will disagree, it was in spite of Heckingbottom and not because of him.

The wholesale training slaughter of the players cannot be just luck, something is being done wrong and it’s followed him in clubs throughout his career. Even with this presumably high stress training the players are blowing out of their arses after 60 minutes! What on earth is happening in training? History shows us, he won’t change anything until we are down to having only the under 21’s left. He can’t change because he knows nothing else and is also seemingly the most stubborn man this side of the Pennines.

He is also tactically inept, playing the long ball to mcburnie is fair enough when he’s on the pitch but for fucks sake, don’t carry on with it when he’s sat on the fucking bench and a 5 foot 7 player has replaced him!

I don’t even think anything would be different if we hadn’t lost the 2 we lost, one was patchy to say the least and the other irreplaceable but he did get the targets he wanted who are turning out to be not performing well under him.

He is in no way up to managing in the premier league and it’s just gobsmacking that he still has support because he’s done nothing right since the season started, has no positive effect on results and seems unable to make a decision tactically until it’s too late. I mean fetching Osborne on against Man U… Slimane must be fucking paralysed from the knees down to not be getting a game. That was honestly the substitution that broke me and proved we need rid.
This is my opinion, yours may be different.
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I fail to see how any manager around today gets a tune out of what we have left losing Berge and Illiman arguably our best players killed us. I've accepted we are down just want this season over. Maybe a different manager will see an improvement but i can't see it. Limited ability many injuries no strength in depth. I don't know where we go from here and if a new manager will be the answer?
 
Davalon said:
The only slim possibility of staying up is because three other teams could be even more terrible for this level.

Saying people should be angry and not accepting, ignores the reality.

Our squad without injuries isn't good enough. We haven't got the money to compete, period.

Yeah, we can all pick faults with sales, recruitment, timings etc but how many teams stay up with our outlay this summer?

I'm not sure what the Prince's vision truly is but I'm not expecting him to chuck every last penny against the odds and leave us up shit creek next season.

We all want to see us compete more regularly but I really think some are away with the fairies at how much more they feel can be squeezed from this squad at this level.

Bornmuff may well pick up a bit and can probably spend a little in Jan. Burnley maybe too.

We're yet to play any of those in our current relegation league so maybe we should see how those go.
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See your point...and generally agree however I think we should all think back to what the realistic expectation was before the season started.
Almost everyone expected relegation, however many thought we'd be competitive, give the opposition close games but probably just go down.

Don't think anyone thought we'd be an embarrassment to the league and struggle to win a single match.
Not one person suggested we would be the worse side to play in the PL in its 30 year history.
Not one person suggested we'd be so poor, that we'd suffer record 8-0 defeats at Bramall Lane.
Opposition fans often said we were the worse side to ever be promoted to the PL and we'd be hammered if we're promoted. Think most of us classed this as sour grapes after being them but it's proving to be right, we're not getting hammered because of our damage limitation tactics.

My point is....it's OK to admit the other teams have better players, so we are likely to lose almost every match and be relegated
but it's not OK for the manager and players to take that attitude on to the pitch where we surrender before a ball has been kicked
and out ambition is to keep the score down so we don't get thrashed every week.

Maybe we can give up on staying up but at least we should be pulling out all the stops to prevent us breaking Derby's embarrasing low points record.

Note: I'm not anti Hecky, like him and accept he has some good points regards calmness and decency. We should try to keep Hecky and only get rid if we become desperate. At least the Man Utd match shows what the team is capable of. Altho it seems we need McBurnie fit. At least there's hope.
 
247Blade said:
Shoud probably have a few more pints .... and blur the reality even more!
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No thanks. Unlike social media, there’s no need to take things to the extreme. Enjoy a social pint or two with friends, try to enjoy the match experience, see the reality, keep things in perspective afterwards. It’s the way to go.
 
SuperBobbyHatton said:
Why?
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Took the reins and steadied the ship after the hopeless Slav situation and got us to the play offs, then got us promoted to the Premier league the season after.
After being dealt a bum hand by the Prince (NDiaye, Berge sale) he bought 2 of the best players in the Championship with the proceeds…But sadly it all came too late after the awful setback of losing our best players and our brilliant loanees.
A club like us can’t afford to be building a team for the Prem with the season already in progress. This current team would have had at least 7 points on the board…If it was assembled 3 weeks earlier.
Whatever happens next (probably the sack) Hecky can still walk out of the BL front door with his head held high.
 
dc_blade said:
He got us promoted with 91 points.

Yes, he inherited a very strong squad but plenty of managers take good squads and run them into the ground--Slavisa Jokanovic comes to mind. We were on our knees when Hecky came in two years ago and he got us into the play offs and then got us promoted, all the while dealing with a financial crisis playing out in the background. I think it's fair to question the style of football we played last season but "barely competent" is going too far. We owe him a lot.

Have his limitations been shown up this season? Yeah, for me they probably have and I wouldn't be gutted to see him replaced. But I really don't get the rewriting of history and outpouring of bile against the guy.
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I agree mate ,the crap he has had to put up with would be a challenge for any manager . It is not him that needs to be replaced he needs funds and some help from above as would any guy would that would replace him . Add to that the horrendous injury list and a small squad of prem quality players with no sight of decent signings on the horizon who could do better? Yes he has made some mistakes ,who hasn't ? but any decent manager would just look at the situation here and would run a mile . We would love to sign some quality but with the wages we are paying theres no chance of any . I just hope the lack of investment in the squad is because the owner is putting our finances in order ,time will tell .
 
71Blade said:
I fail to see how any manager around today gets a tune out of what we have left losing Berge and Illiman arguably our best players killed us. I've accepted we are down just want this season over. Maybe a different manager will see an improvement but i can't see it. Limited ability many injuries no strength in depth. I don't know where we go from here and if a new manager will be the answer?
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All fair points and a new manager might not have the impact I would like but I just feel we are going nowhere with Heckingbottom. I am of the opinion we need to at least try and get more than we are getting now.
 
brownblade said:
Hecky is a good guy, a knowledgeable, personable and well qualified football man. Our next manager could easily be inferior to him in every way.
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If Hecky gets potted this side of Christmas, an inferior manager only has to get a point for the remainder and he’s not inferior compared to Hecky. There’s not a lot of fat there.

He’s been dealt a bad hand, but can we really justify looking much worse than Luton?
 
dc_blade said:
He got us promoted with 91 points.

Yes, he inherited a very strong squad but plenty of managers take good squads and run them into the ground--Slavisa Jokanovic comes to mind. We were on our knees when Hecky came in two years ago and he got us into the play offs and then got us promoted, all the while dealing with a financial crisis playing out in the background. I think it's fair to question the style of football we played last season but "barely competent" is going too far. We owe him a lot.

Have his limitations been shown up this season? Yeah, for me they probably have and I wouldn't be gutted to see him replaced. But I really don't get the rewriting of history and outpouring of bile against the guy.
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TBF Hecky inherited a squad with plenty of quality and in Ndiaye had an exceptional talent and individual matchwinner. I do believe our “par” was top six, as a minimum, with that squad.

Two things I’m mindful of - (1) Every manager has a shelf life with a club, or in any organisation. Rarely can they keep improving and / or delivering as the circumstances they operate in are in constant flux. (2) We should be amongst the worst teams in the division, undoubtedly. But we shouldn’t look that much worse than Luton, Burnley and the other teams around the bottom. Fulham are one of the worse teams in the division and they ran rings around us. We should be able to compete and the performances thus far simply haven’t been good enough and can’t continue in perpetuity.
 
I've gone back and forth on this, and agree a new manager couldn't possibly do any worse. But, if we roll the dice now, 'm fairly certain we'll be rolling it again in 6 months time or so. Compounding uncertainty will not be healthy on or off field. Sticking with Hecky at least gives us some stability, however deflating this season is.

We have a reasonable at best (but still probably the worst) starting 11, zero depth and little chance of spending in Jan. Fate long since sealed.
 

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