Outgoing? Hamer

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true99blade said:
In what world is losing your best player with zero hope for a like-for-like replacement not a disaster? Feel for Selles. Wouldn’t be in this position if Wilder didn’t spectacularly bottle last season.
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In a world where the transfer fee enables the club to strengthen the squad rather than trying a direct replacement.
 

brownblade said:
Ideal scenario for me: Gus loves it here and really likes Selles, so agrees a new 5 year contract with another year option.

Becomes club captain in 2026 after leading us to the league title.

Starts to become a rotation option by 2028/29 as our Premier League squad swells with top class players, whilst we suckle at the corporate teat.

Gus decides to legally change his name to "Harmer", announcing his definitive choice of pronunciation across all of social medias.

Or something like that. Hope we keep him, he's got quality that's very hard to buy at our level.
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Does this remind me of an Everley brothers song ?
 
Pintor75 said:
If PSV have won the title and are champions league bound, why are they wanting a championship player, answer to be a squad player, Gus isn't going to be a first choice, hardly going to help his Brazil ambitions stuck on the bench. wages might be better admittedly, but he seems to love playing and he's our star player at the lane and what better than to take us to the Premier League
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They play in a league where Michael Higdon was considered a ‘top striker’. It’s like Scotland but with taller fans.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
No, he's not.

Wilder was a system man. Pick a system and formation and every player must play to it, even if it means cramming square pegs into round holes. It doesn't matter what your strengths are, all decisions are made for you. If scenario A happens, do this. If scenario B happens, do this. It was predictable robotic football, like Didsy recently commented about. Win, win, win even if it means players are bang average and don't develop.

Selles is about finding a system that plays to his players strengths and developing them in their roles so that they play with instincts and to their strengths. Hence why so many players kept the ball against York and ran with it, instead of pass, pass, pass boring Subbuteo football. Granted it was only against York, but Marsh played really well playing his natural game, the same as he's been doing for the development team for the last two seasons. O'Hare stood out as he loves to run with the ball, something players seldom did under Wilder. Brooks looked effective on the wing instead of lost, because he could run and take on players.
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Did Wilder not develop our 3-4-1-2 around players like Basham, Duffy and Freeman? Will this tiresome bullshit never end? 😭
 
Nick Jansky said:
It was such a rigid system that it became difficult to fit new players into it.
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But also enabled the players we had to play way, way above their natural level, leading to our richest spell of success in a generation. It was absolutely not square pegs in round holes, it was the opposite. Every player was playing in a position perfectly tailored for them.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but Selles played Cannon and One as wingers and a CB at RB. It's just streams of "Wilder did all the bad things, Selles does all the good things". Wilder played boring football, Wilder put square pegs in round holes, Wilder doesn't develop players, Wilder makes them robots, Wilder tells players not to run with the ball.

It's a crock of shit. Can we just praise Selles without having to constantly denegrate Wilder in the process?
 
AWetFlannel said:
Did Wilder not develop our 3-4-1-2 around players like Basham, Duffy and Freeman? Will this tiresome bullshit never end? 😭
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Yes, in 2016, but he didn't last season. So can we stop the bringing up Wilder's previous successes from years ago tiresome bullshit while we're at it. Your argument is based on a team from 9 years ago. It's 2025.

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Tony_Kaufman said:
Yes, in 2016, but he didn't last season. So can we stop the bringing up Wilder's previous successes from years ago tiresome bullshit while we're at it. Your argument is based on a team from 9 years ago. It's 2025.

View attachment 216338
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Last season he changed the formation more than once. The season before he changed our formation multiple times. You're talking shit.
 
AWetFlannel said:
But also enabled the players we had to play way, way above their natural level, leading to our richest spell of success in a generation. It was absolutely not square pegs in round holes, it was the opposite. Every player was playing in a position perfectly tailored for them.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but Selles played Cannon and One as wingers and a CB at RB. It's just streams of "Wilder did all the bad things, Selles does all the good things". Wilder played boring football, Wilder put square pegs in round holes, Wilder doesn't develop players, Wilder makes them robots, Wilder tells players not to run with the ball.

It's a crock of shit. Can we just praise Selles without having to constantly denegrate Wilder in the process?
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You think it’s a crock of shit. That does not, in any way, make it a crock of shit.
 

AWetFlannel said:
Last season he changed the formation more than once. The season before he changed our formation multiple times. You're talking shit.
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Regardless you've completely missed the point I was making, which isn't the first time.

My point in brief is that Wilder's system was based on results and winning, Selles appears to be about maximising each players individual strengths and allowing them to shine by letting them play their natural game within a system.
 
Tony_Kaufman said:
Regardless you've completely missed the point I was making, which isn't the first time.

My point in brief is that Wilder's system was based on results and winning, Selles appears to be about maximising each players individual strengths and allowing them to shine by letting them play their natural game within a system.
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Hasn't Selles referred to it as organised chaos?
 
MojoMuffin said:
I think you do make some good points here and I'd be inclined to agree with some of it if we were not entering our first full season with new owners.

There's a bit of an obsession with shifting players on when they get to a certain age in order to recoup some funds before they end up in Saudi or MLS nowadays. I'd like to think that under new ownership, recouping funds in the region of 15m shouldn't entirely be necessary at this point, especially after the sale of Souza and given there's not many players around like Hamer for that price point. At 28/29 Hamer is pretty much going to be in his prime now and with his flare, passing ability and finishing, I really think he'll shine in this Selles team. 15m will be peanuts if he gets us promoted and if we don't, I'd like to think that the new owners won't be flapping about the idea of his value dropping in his final year.

There's other aspects at play in terms of parachute payments and whether or not the player wants to move, but the owners should and will have had to put together a thorough plan to the EFL in order to buy us in the first place, one of which would be how they manage the funds when parachute payments end. I think these folks do have some decent money behind them, I think they're just being sensible about where and how it's spent. If Hamer isn't pushing for a move, to me, it's not a sensible decision to sell him this window given what he is very much capable of helping us to achieve this coming season.
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I'd be delighted to watch Hamer for another season, and there would be no complaints from me if he stayed. There is always the argument that money invested in a champ team is worth it if you get promoted - but its no guarantee. If I was a decision maker with 15m on the table (who knows if that will happen), I'd be inclined to accept it, but I would also want to know the plan for how those funds would be invested, whether there are achieavable and exciting ways to invest the funds into the team.
This whole argument is premised on that, but that is also a big unknown, and there is no way we are buying younger Hamer who can perform at his level on day 1 - that player is being snapped up at a higher level than us.
 
Dave said:
The owners have money (Tom Cannon) Hamer best player in Championship, good season in prem. No club is getting him for less than 22.5M in my opinion. we will also demand it all up front, so we can replace straight away. Very few clubs are able to provide directly up front cash and is done over stints. This will not help PSV's position. My 2p, he stays as PSV cant afford him up front.

Also, lets not forget, last season we sold players for a good amount, rather than 2 packets of crisps and a new set of balls. The board will not entertain selling Hamer unless the offer up front is too good to turn down and we can get 2 replacements in straight away.
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How do you know the owners have money ?
The 10 million could have been a loan against parachute money
 
ATL Recs said:
How do you know the owners have money ?
The 10 million could have been a loan against parachute money
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We've already taken all of the money. As per Darren Smith at the start of last season. Check the finances
 
brownblade said:
Why buy a football club for £100m if you have no money? There's no need for conspiracy when common sense is available.
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Absolutely but it won’t be the first time it’s happened. My understanding is they’ve made a payment to buy the club (or payments) not paid in full?

I believe the consortium thought we were going up and made the gamble that the Cannon signing would act as insurance to achieve that. If they’ve borrowed the money for Cannon that’s the first red flag for me.

I’m not yet convinced by these owners and you can call it as some would on here, bed wetting or flouncing, it doesn’t matter.

I hope I’m wrong but let’s just say time will tell
 
Blade58 said:
Absolutely but it won’t be the first time it’s happened. My understanding is they’ve made a payment to buy the club (or payments) not paid in full?

I believe the consortium thought we were going up and made the gamble that the Cannon signing would act as insurance to achieve that. If they’ve borrowed the money for Cannon that’s the first red flag for me.

I’m not yet convinced by these owners and you can call it as some would on here, bed wetting or flouncing, it doesn’t matter.

I hope I’m wrong but let’s just say time will tell
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Are you suggesting they have only paid the Prince a first installment?
 

Blade58 said:
I believe the consortium thought we were going up and made the gamble that the Cannon signing would act as insurance to achieve that.
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... which would show an appalling lack of football knowledge. He was the most predictably low impact signing you could possibly get for that money
 
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