Good job Wednesday only gave us 2,800

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Getting mine on the moro, and renewing the season tkt at the same time. They'll think I've escaped from Rampton top security hospital in the tkt office:loopy:
 



DuncDisorderly said:
Judging by the number of stay-aways over the last few matches, I still think that their empty seats will outnumber ours by at least 4:1.

Unlike last year there has been no news released officially on their ST sales this year by the look of it, but my 'inside man' suggests that they haven't topped 6,000 yet with only 2 weeks to the first extended deadline.

"There's going to be a chill wind blowing through football" - K McCabe...
Click to expand...

What's your inside man tell you about our season ticket sales with, what is it, three weeks to the deadline?
I'd hazard a guess we're not near 6,000 yet.
 
Due to circumstances beyond Bert's control he has only missed one United v Wednesday match since 1968. If they were meeting in division 9 of the Sheffield and District Sunday League he would still be there.

Stay away if you haven't got the stomach for it. He who dares wins.
 
Micalijo said:
I assume Bob is talking about the property recession, what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

The problem with the 'crowds are going to drop' predictors are that they use this as one element of some long prediction, (crowds, relegation, pestilence, famile, that sort of thing), which they magically generate from Blackwell being manager, etc etc etc. This is done to prove a point that isn't well made, a bit like my teenage daughter, you know,

Dad:'Have you cleaned your room like we asked'
Daughter: 'No'
Dad:'Well you can't go out with your friends until you do'
Daughter: 'But thats not fair'
Dad: 'Yes it is. Clean room, then go out with friends'
Daughter: 'But if you dont let me go then they'll think I've fallen out with them, and then they won't like me, and, and you just want me to lose all my friends don't you?'
Dad:'Actually I just want you to clean your room, like we agreed'
Daughter: 'Well, I'll have no friends, and its all your fault...' etc etc etc

(I don't know if you have kids of your own...)

I've never said that crowds won't drop. They are bound to. Less money for luxuries like going to football matches = lower crowds. What I have warned against is people saying 'I'm not going while 'x' is the manager', or 'while 'x' is in charge'. It is wrong, and is exactly the messages that the piggies got themselves believing to become such a corrosive disaster, and part of the reason why they are where they are today. There are lots of reasons not to go to a football match but don't become a dissident supporter who 'won't go' because of this and that.

As for your long running investigation and castigation of Blades Realty (how's that going, btw), stuffing money into property might not have been the smartest thing, we'll see in the fullness of the economic cycle, but for sure it was a hell of a lot smarter than spunking the overdraft, and the VAT and the PAYE on a promotion bid like Cardiff have.

Looking across the city at the pigs, they had a business plan where they would increase the wages and budgets on ST sales of 16,500, and average crowds of 25k. Then they sold what, 14,000 and have average crowds around 21k. For sure their numbers don't add up.

What happens when they sell less than 10,000 ST's, as looks possible, and crowds drop to 16,000. What happens to us when our crowds fall to 20k, or any other club for that matter (except the top end of the PL and the odd freak of nature like Norwich) when that happens. Lots of businesses and industries are suffering, and thats just a fact of life. Football isn't immune from economic reality. What does appear to have happened is that Mr McCabe has done the hard pruning and got in someone to balance the books before disaster strikes us. It isn't popular because we feel that we should achieve more, but for many clubs just staying in business over the next 24 months is going to be quite an achievement...
 
lenners said:
What's your inside man tell you about our season ticket sales with, what is it, three weeks to the deadline?
I'd hazard a guess we're not near 6,000 yet.
Click to expand...

I don't have an inside man at the Lane Len, but it wouldn't surprise me if we were struggling to sell them just like the large majority of other clubs. I've not seen any 'good news' PR from anyone except Norwich about ST sales. (They've sold out 18,500, of course, but then thats not a shock)...
 
At an all time low in my apathy towards the Blades but I just see it as compulsory to go to a Derby game, even more so if it's away from home. Hopefully a win will make me regain my Blades Mojo.

I'm not worried that they'll stuff us, they are proper shit and the few I've spoken to who went last night said that it was the worst game of football they've seen all season and they were pissing themselves at how they won. We're poor at the moment too but at the end of the day it's a game of football between almost mostly 22 poor to average players.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don't think we should go, let the normal away fans go but why should we fill their coffers? It's not like we are going to have anything to play for.
Click to expand...

How about a double over the pigs, always worth seeing
 
The Pigs have only sold 17000 tickets so far for the Derby so they aren't gonna need the other tier on leppings lane at all by the looks of it.
So i'm pretty sure we'll get it, eventually
 
DuncDisorderly said:
The problem with the 'crowds are going to drop' predictors are that they use this as one element of some long prediction, (crowds, relegation, pestilence, famile, that sort of thing), which they magically generate from Blackwell being manager, etc etc etc. This is done to prove a point that isn't well made, a bit like my teenage daughter, you know,

Dad:'Have you cleaned your room like we asked'
Daughter: 'No'
Dad:'Well you can't go out with your friends until you do'
Daughter: 'But thats not fair'
Dad: 'Yes it is. Clean room, then go out with friends'
Daughter: 'But if you dont let me go then they'll think I've fallen out with them, and then they won't like me, and, and you just want me to lose all my friends don't you?'
Dad:'Actually I just want you to clean your room, like we agreed'
Daughter: 'Well, I'll have no friends, and its all your fault...' etc etc etc

(I don't know if you have kids of your own...)

I've never said that crowds won't drop. They are bound to. Less money for luxuries like going to football matches = lower crowds. What I have warned against is people saying 'I'm not going while 'x' is the manager', or 'while 'x' is in charge'. It is wrong, and is exactly the messages that the piggies got themselves believing to become such a corrosive disaster, and part of the reason why they are where they are today. There are lots of reasons not to go to a football match but don't become a dissident supporter who 'won't go' because of this and that.

As for your long running investigation and castigation of Blades Realty (how's that going, btw), stuffing money into property might not have been the smartest thing, we'll see in the fullness of the economic cycle, but for sure it was a hell of a lot smarter than spunking the overdraft, and the VAT and the PAYE on a promotion bid like Cardiff have.

Looking across the city at the pigs, they had a business plan where they would increase the wages and budgets on ST sales of 16,500, and average crowds of 25k. Then they sold what, 14,000 and have average crowds around 21k. For sure their numbers don't add up.

What happens when they sell less than 10,000 ST's, as looks possible, and crowds drop to 16,000. What happens to us when our crowds fall to 20k, or any other club for that matter (except the top end of the PL and the odd freak of nature like Norwich) when that happens. Lots of businesses and industries are suffering, and thats just a fact of life. Football isn't immune from economic reality. What does appear to have happened is that Mr McCabe has done the hard pruning and got in someone to balance the books before disaster strikes us. It isn't popular because we feel that we should achieve more, but for many clubs just staying in business over the next 24 months is going to be quite an achievement...
Click to expand...

I agree with alot of that and crowds will drop across the country, McCabe's problem is that we have thousands of Blades with poor job security (if they still have one) coupled with what many see as a very poor manager serving up very poor entertainment.

Where we differ it would seem is that I think McCabe's folly with Realty has primarily caused the pruning - not the impact that the recession has had on the disposable income of the fans. McCabe will blame the recession and use this chill wind phrase but (rather than arse around with Realty, Chengdu) if he had hired a proper manager and allowed that manager to sign just a slightly better quality of player I think we'd be planning another Wembley trip very soon. I think we were in a very good position with huge crowds and I think we've blown it, not because of recession, but because of terrible management from the top and from Blackwell.

The late filing of Realty accounts told me all I need to know about that venture. The 2010 results will be disastrous - I have no doubt of that.
 
DuncDisorderly said:
I don't have an inside man at the Lane Len, but it wouldn't surprise me if we were struggling to sell them just like the large majority of other clubs. I've not seen any 'good news' PR from anyone except Norwich about ST sales. (They've sold out 18,500, of course, but then thats not a shock)...
Click to expand...

Not really much point in digging at SWFC then, is there?
We're almost certainly going to suffer a huge drop in season ticket sales and are likely to have much closer numbers and crowds to SWFC next season.
It's nowt to be crowing about.
 
lenners said:
Not really much point in digging at SWFC then, is there?
We're almost certainly going to suffer a huge drop in season ticket sales and are likely to have much closer numbers and crowds to SWFC next season.
It's nowt to be crowing about.
Click to expand...

We may end up having the normal pissing contest about each others crowds Len, but most likely about whos have fallen the furthest. I can see ours and theirs fall from 25k and 21k respectively, to 22k and 16k, quite easily.
 
Micalijo said:
McCabe's problem is that we have thousands of Blades with poor job security (if they still have one) coupled with what many see as a very poor manager serving up very poor entertainment.
Click to expand...

I dont see why Blades should have less job security than anyone else. As for the manager and the entertainment, I think you and quite a lot of others are going to be disappointed in your quest to see him out. But there is a bit of my brain, call it feminine intuition, that says there is better to come from all.

Micalijo said:
Where we differ it would seem is that I think McCabe's folly with Realty has primarily caused the pruning - not the impact that the recession has had on the disposable income of the fans.
Click to expand...

The point I was making was that the pruning has already taken place here, whereas some clubs are still spunking it like the good times are still rolling. I do believe it is mainly the loss of parachute money, coupled with the effect of the recession, but I know we wont agree on this...


Micalijo said:
The late filing of Realty accounts told me all I need to know about that venture. The 2010 results will be disastrous - I have no doubt of that.
Click to expand...

Lots of reasons for late filing. We're not close enough to the action to see why, for sure...
 



DuncDisorderly said:
I dont see why Blades should have less job security than anyone else. As for the manager and the entertainment, I think you and quite a lot of others are going to be disappointed in your quest to see him out. But there is a bit of my brain, call it feminine intuition, that says there is better to come from all.



The point I was making was that the pruning has already taken place here, whereas some clubs are still spunking it like the good times are still rolling. I do believe it is mainly the loss of parachute money, coupled with the effect of the recession, but I know we wont agree on this...




Lots of reasons for late filing. We're not close enough to the action to see why, for sure...
Click to expand...

Agree, Blades and all football fans will have less job security.

You're right - we are millions of miles apart on why the pruning has happened. What about the Tevez money? Where would we be without that in terms of McCabe getting some cash back - I assume he would have the same issues without the Tevez money.
 
DuncDisorderly said:
As for the manager and the entertainment, I think you and quite a lot of others are going to be disappointed in your quest to see him out....
Click to expand...

I think most agree with that bit, that's why it's being suggested we'll see a big drop in season ticket sales.

UTB
 
DuncDisorderly said:
The point I was making was that the pruning has already taken place here, whereas some clubs are still spunking it like the good times are still rolling. I do believe it is mainly the loss of parachute money, coupled with the effect of the recession, but I know we wont agree on this....
Click to expand...

From memory, Chengdu blades lost about £2.5M last year. Realty lost something similar. The hotel lost about £1M.

It's surely beyond comprehension that these losses don't have an impact on the spending on the playing side. It may be dressed up differently, but it's the same company. Think of it the other way, the other businesses were supposedly to support the playing side. Are we to believe that this is a one way ticket, where we can only gain? Again, it doesn't sound believable.

UTB
 
Originally Posted by DuncDisorderly
As for the manager and the entertainment, I think you and quite a lot of others are going to be disappointed in your quest to see him out....

yep and thats the problem with the Blades.
The hard core of Blades wud renew if a monkey was the manager ! (a step up from cheap as chips) BUT the problem is attracting new/fringe Blades.

and if yer stand still yer going backwards....... mind yer the blades aint even standing still :eek:

AMBITION MY ARSE !​
 
alcoblade said:
From memory, Chengdu blades lost about £2.5M last year. Realty lost something similar. The hotel lost about £1M.

It's surely beyond comprehension that these losses don't have an impact on the spending on the playing side. It may be dressed up differently, but it's the same company. Think of it the other way, the other businesses were supposedly to support the playing side. Are we to believe that this is a one way ticket, where we can only gain? Again, it doesn't sound believable.

UTB
Click to expand...

Also for memory, didn't we make a profit last year? Chengdu is a long game, where the benefits might not be fully felt for 5-10 years. As such it is therefore well outside the attention span of any football supporter. Shame they pissed on their own firework with the match fixing thing, as that will surely put the schedule back a bit. I guess we find out what costs we have from that next accounts.

I accept that from what we have seen so far the tangible benefits to SUFC don't amount to a hill of beans, and it may be a while yet before they make themselves felt. That in itself is not a reason to stop, IF we have a clear long term plan and the directors can see progress. There has been a delegation from Sheffield businesses in Chengdu this week looking at economic collaboration through a 'sistering' initiative. This may benefit Sheffield as a whole, and Chengdu Blades specifically, and with it bring some opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have happened. However, we should consider the stance of the council on other matters, and ponder the progress that these arrangements might make if they were the 'Chengdu Owls' instead. (How would we feel about Sheffield Council 'buying-in' to a 'Chengdu Owls' relationship for example? "Not over my dead body", springs to mind)

The Realty thing has been siezed upon by the pigs who only see the £47m debt, but don't look at the asset values. All the time, they are deflecting interest from their own accounts, where the ground and the lease on the training pitch are their only assets. The ground is on the balance sheet at £27m or some figure, but of course if they went pop, then it would only be worth a fraction of that figure (Value of the land + scrap value of reclaimed materials - cost of demolition). If they went pop and someone bought the assets they would probably only pay 20p in the £ for them, so that figure of £27m is quite bogus really. They can't move out and sell the whole stadium to another club, can they? The Blades Realty thing DOES have significant assets that are saleable, over the ground itself, and this is a massive difference.


As for the hotel, pretty much all hotels lose money in their first year or two, whilst they are building occupancy rates and event income. Now Copthorne are paying us for the pleasure to run it, the club is insulated from any possible losses, although here's a question for the anti-hotel mob, (I think they were in 'Wacky Races'..?). Do you really think that a smart hotel chain like Copthorne are going to take it on for 10 years if they dont think it will make money..?

As for whether we could have spent more on the playing side regardless of Chengdu, Hotel or anything else, I think the answer to that is yes of course we could, but the club is owned by Ken McCabe and he has decided that it won't. C'est la vie...
 
Well Said. Speaking as an exiled Blade i remember with very strong memories having 9 to 12 k at the lane watching park football and loving it.Hotels, sports clubs, foriegn tems, bring it on. THE LONG TERM FUTURE LOOKS ROSEY.. I'm sat thousands of miles away pissed up and not watching the football on display BUT BUT BUT it can't possibly be worse than 25 to 30 years ago.
Lets repay the double on the pigs and reform for next year. The sty is our wembley this year. BRING IT ON and i wish i could be there.
 
DuncDisorderly said:
Also for memory, didn't we make a profit last year? Chengdu is a long game, where the benefits might not be fully felt for 5-10 years. As such it is therefore well outside the attention span of any football supporter. Shame they pissed on their own firework with the match fixing thing, as that will surely put the schedule back a bit. I guess we find out what costs we have from that next accounts.

I accept that from what we have seen so far the tangible benefits to SUFC don't amount to a hill of beans, and it may be a while yet before they make themselves felt. That in itself is not a reason to stop, IF we have a clear long term plan and the directors can see progress. There has been a delegation from Sheffield businesses in Chengdu this week looking at economic collaboration through a 'sistering' initiative. This may benefit Sheffield as a whole, and Chengdu Blades specifically, and with it bring some opportunities that otherwise wouldn't have happened. However, we should consider the stance of the council on other matters, and ponder the progress that these arrangements might make if they were the 'Chengdu Owls' instead. (How would we feel about Sheffield Council 'buying-in' to a 'Chengdu Owls' relationship for example? "Not over my dead body", springs to mind)

The Realty thing has been siezed upon by the pigs who only see the £47m debt, but don't look at the asset values. All the time, they are deflecting interest from their own accounts, where the ground and the lease on the training pitch are their only assets. The ground is on the balance sheet at £27m or some figure, but of course if they went pop, then it would only be worth a fraction of that figure (Value of the land + scrap value of reclaimed materials - cost of demolition). If they went pop and someone bought the assets they would probably only pay 20p in the £ for them, so that figure of £27m is quite bogus really. They can't move out and sell the whole stadium to another club, can they? The Blades Realty thing DOES have significant assets that are saleable, over the ground itself, and this is a massive difference.


As for the hotel, pretty much all hotels lose money in their first year or two, whilst they are building occupancy rates and event income. Now Copthorne are paying us for the pleasure to run it, the club is insulated from any possible losses, although here's a question for the anti-hotel mob, (I think they were in 'Wacky Races'..?). Do you really think that a smart hotel chain like Copthorne are going to take it on for 10 years if they dont think it will make money..?

As for whether we could have spent more on the playing side regardless of Chengdu, Hotel or anything else, I think the answer to that is yes of course we could, but the club is owned by Ken McCabe and he has decided that it won't. C'est la vie...
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with anything you've just said. If these things come off then we're in clover, if they don't, we're not. Right now, we're not.

The hotel and enterprise center at least feel part of the club. I'm just disappointed that our fortunes are linked to prices of "river front flats in Dorchester" and the antics of corrupt leaders in China. I'm even more disappointed that despite selling everything of quality, we've managed to run up a £50M debt to create these links.

UTB
 
GoldCoast Blade said:
ps , i dont think anybody could predict the earthquake that fucked Chengdu. Don't know if this hurt, but it couldn't have helped.
Click to expand...

Earthquake sent people into match fixing mode? Can't see it myself.

:D

UTB
 
we only just sold our allocation before the game last year, so what you all panicking for?

Or just another thinly veiled dig at something again? Stop bloody whining!

I got mine and Wards Snr yesterday :)
 
Went to swap my pig tkt over so me and a pal can sit together. No queue in the tkt office at all at 10.45 and loads of tkts left. And I mean loads.
 
Micalijo said:
Seriously, will we sell 2,800?
Click to expand...

I think we probably will but United should stop at that and not bother with anymore.
We won't sell them, it's a pointless match and there's no need to put any more money into their coffers.
We can do it in the context of calling Strafford's bluff.
 



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