Everton & Forest Points Deduction - Can Sheffield United Survive?

[CityInPeace]

Or it could be the case that they're say £5-10m over but get a point or 2 back for following through on selling Johnson, mitigation to reduce the Sanction slightly..That sort of thing.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Will someone please think of Johnson’s dad in all this

 

[Snowflake]

There basically is supposed to be a sliding scale of sorts. Could be -6 if they've breached by say £4m over the limit as the Everton verdict suggested -6 for a breach and then 1 point for each £5m beyond that.

Let’s concentrate on winning a few matches !
If we beat WHU and/or CP then I might become interested in points deductions for these two. If not then the season is about finished.

 

[Bell4]

Now we'll see what PA's intentions are. You can bet your life Burnley and Luton will be going for it in the January window, as they'll see this as a huge chance of staying up. I wonder if we'll do the same?

Honestly ? - you wonder ?

 

[raul]

The Everton stuff is a mess, but Forest appear to be saying " Yes, we could have sold Johnson to stay under the threshold, but we chose not to so we could get more money"

sheffieldred ?

 

[Balti Pie]

There basically is supposed to be a sliding scale of sorts. Could be -6 if they've breached by say £4m over the limit as the Everton verdict suggested -6 for a breach and then 1 point for each £5m beyond that.

I certainly hope not! That would open the door for future calculated cheating.

 

[BobblesBlade]

I’m mixed with this. I get that clubs should be punished for breaking rules but what it does for football is say unless your a top 6 club you’ll need to break rules to compete.

They need to cap player wages as the main cost to a clubs turnover and expenditure is paying stupid wages.


I’d say that in all football a player should only get max 20k a week and that’s it.
If good enough then they can make money through sponsorships and stuff.

 

[MobileBlade]

Or it could be the case that they're say £5-10m over but get a point or 2 back for following through on selling Johnson, mitigation to reduce the Sanction slightly..That sort of thing.

Don't think the Johnson argument holds much hope tbh. Premier League rules are a bit of mish mash but the accounting period is black and white. They didn't just miss it by days, it was two months.

 

[Roygbiv]

I'd rather they didn't get points off really. Just looks more embarrassing when we still finish bottom. I know that sounds unbelievably negative but even if Forest get 10 points off, we'd still need to better their results to finish above them and we haven't shown any sign that we can do that.

Think what is most annoying is this looks like this would have been a great season to have a crack at staying up. The other 2 promoted sides are poor and other teams are getting points knocked off. Essentially surrendering before the season started looks even worse now.

 

[Wards]

Does make you think we should really have had a bit more of a go at it in terms of spending.

 

[sheffieldred]

The Everton stuff is a mess, but Forest appear to be saying " Yes, we could have sold Johnson to stay under the threshold, but we chose not to so we could get more money"

sheffieldred ?

Yeah I think so. I can't see that it can wash from an accounting perspective but whether they are hoping that the common sense of demonstrating that selling an asset to aid the sustainability is what the rules should be about. That sounds a little bit too much like common sense though doesn't it.

Ultimately if we get punished for a letter of the law type thing then we have to wear it like we all have to on a weekly basis with VAR.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Will someone please think of Johnson’s dad in all this

Spurs fan now. “The trees can bollocks” at best. Half and half scarf at worst.

So it goes.

 

[bongleblade]

Now we'll see what PA's intentions are. You can bet your life Burnley and Luton will be going for it in the January window, as they'll see this as a huge chance of staying up. I wonder if we'll do the same?

Is there a chance that we actually had prior knowledge of this which is why we signed BBD?

 

[mcbladeface]

If the PL accept Forest's argument that they should be allowed to include the Johnson sale and effectively let them 'backdate' it, I can imagine some interesting reactions on the other side of the city.

 

[SUFC Guy]

Any punishment is ratified on May 24th, 5 days after the end of the season.

What punishment they will receive will be disclosed on the 12th of April, clubs have 7 days to appeal, in the time between 18th of April and May 23rd premier league will consider the appeal made. If a ten point deduction was applied (could be anything tbf) now Forest would be a point above us and Everton 2 points behind, makes little difference to the final result imo.

April the 12th. Convenient date to decide how many points they would get so that they won't be relegated.

 

[Roygbiv]

I’m mixed with this. I get that clubs should be punished for breaking rules but what it does for football is say unless your a top 6 club you’ll need to break rules to compete.

They need to cap player wages as the main cost to a clubs turnover and expenditure is paying stupid wages.


I’d say that in all football a player should only get max 20k a week and that’s it.
If good enough then they can make money through sponsorships and stuff.

Unless I've missed something, you can only really spend massive amounts if you have high enough revenue to earn it back. Unless a club spends massive amounts, they're never going to break into the big 6 and become popular enough to earn that revenue back. So there seems little to no chance that anyone will be able to match established big clubs in terms of spending no matter how rich they are.



Man City and Chelsea for instance have countless players out on loan that they've stockpiled and can sell while also gaining loads of revenue off the pitch by being two of the most popular clubs outside of England. How can the clubs below hope to match them financially?

 

[mancunianblade]

After the season is done.

View attachment 177550

Doesn’t the season officially end 31st june

 

[mancunianblade]

Unless I've missed something, you can only really spend massive amounts if you have high enough revenue to earn it back. Unless a club spends massive amounts, they're never going to break into the big 6 and become popular enough to earn that revenue back. So there seems little to no chance that anyone will be able to match established big clubs in terms of spending no matter how rich they are.



Man City and Chelsea for instance have countless players out on loan that they've stockpiled and can sell while also gaining loads of revenue off the pitch by being two of the most popular clubs outside of England. How can the clubs below hope to match them financially?

Man City also lend copious amounts of money to friend's of the owners and companies of the owners and have them sponsor mundane elements of club such as Bridges.

 

[MobileBlade]

Doesn’t the season officially end 31st june

Hope not. It will never end.

 

[Houston_Blade]

It will just make it more embarrassing when we go down below 2 teams with point deductions.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Hope not. It will never end.

29th Feb I’ve heard.

 

[MobileBlade]

29th Feb I’ve heard.

30th Feb I thought this year.

 

[Kev Gee]

I'm hopeful that we will start to give it a go and at least run them close.

Out last game may be tasty.......

So what does this mean for the EPL longer term.... Everyone keeps saying that the bubble would burst. Are we seeing the first elements of this?

 

[Blade56]

If it means Everton getting religated they’ll reduce the points deduction on appeal just enough for us to go down instead.

Points deduction is not a punishment, they should be religated 1 league or 2 as Swindon were int old days

 

[Snowflake]

Is there a chance that we actually had prior knowledge of this which is why we signed BBD?

…instead of a quality striker and central defender ?

 

[Addison]

The Everton stuff is a mess, but Forest appear to be saying " Yes, we could have sold Johnson to stay under the threshold, but we chose not to so we could get more money"

sheffieldred ?

Thats exactly the argument Everton tried over selling Richarlison and got lambasted by the Independent panel for failing to sell assets during the relevant period. The relevant period is very clear to all clubs.

Florists argument that they were only in breach for a few months due the delayed sale of Johnson, ergo only a small penalty applies, should be blown out of the water if there is consistent application of the PSR. All 20 clubs voted for PSR yet when breaches occur its suddenly a poor system for those in breach.

As we have seen consistent application of rules and precedent is not high on the agenda of Independent panels who have proved in the past they are a law unto themselves. As for the suggestion there is a sliding scale for penalties well one doesn't exist for the EPL whereas one does for the EFL.

The biggest fly in the ointment of the Everton decision is that the panel did not set out the reasons as to how they arrived at a figure of 10 points. No precedent was quoted. The only precedent referred to were the previous indiscretions of Mr Chansiri and the S6 rabble quoting the principle of points deductions being the correct sanction for breach. Hence opening the door to appeal.

We now have the scenario before the end of the season if the timetable is adhered to of;

1. Everton appeal to original deduction of 10 points - no date currently set
2. 14 days thereafter decision announced
3. Hearing for Florist - no date confirmed
4. Hearing for Everton part 2 - no date confirmed
5. Hearings to be concluded by 5 April 2024
6. Decisions on 3 and 4 to be made no later than 12 April 2024
7. 7 days to Appeal thereafter
8. Appeals hearing(s)/ decisions to be concluded by 24 May 2024


5 potential hearings 3 of those appeals. 5 separate decisions all within a legal framework. In short a buggers muddle with the propensity for inconsistent application and further confusion and delay.

We could be faced with a situation on 19 May 2024, last day of season, where we stay up due to the points deductions applied on 12 April. Yet have to wait another week to know if we are going to be relegated due to a reduction in points on appeal. Which ultimately will lead to SUFC or any other Club in the same situation taking out legal action over the Summer.

As Florist and Everton have until the end of January to respond to these charges and in short will be already constructing their defence I can see no reason why the timetable cannot be compressed 1 month to enable all matters to be concluded well before the seasons end. Availability of counsel may be a constraint but there are ways and means around this.

In the best interests of fairness no club should be left in a situation where they do not know their fate after the season has ended. The current EPL timetable in effect imposes a VAR style delay to the whole process where we are required to remain at BDTBL for 5 days after the Spuds game to check if we can celebrate survival.

 

[Aston max]

Now we'll see what PA's intentions are. You can bet your life Burnley and Luton will be going for it in the January window, as they'll see this as a huge chance of staying up. I wonder if we'll do the same?

No

 

[mancunianblade]

Hope not. It will never end.

Feels like it now

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Deduct Everton and Forest a million points if you want, it still won't help us stay up in the slightest.

We can't even beat Burnley or Luton.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If Everton get another 6 point deduction and overlay their current PPG (without deductions) they would end up on 32 points.

If Forest do the same PPG with a 10 point deduction they’d get to 28 points.

We’re better under Wilder but we’d need around 1.33 PPG for the last 18 games. We’re currently performing at 0.45 PPG. We’d need to perform 3x better in the remaining games than we have so far.

Does anyone really think we’ll finish above either?

We were down the day we sold our best players in the summer and got Beni, Vini, Lukey T and Yasser in.