Crowd V The Pigs

[Ollessendro]

I've just realised that it's £26 on the kop for this one. Not exactly cheap, but not overly excessive for a city derby. The majority who're moaning about the price are just making excuses.

I bought two tickets for me and my dad on the kop and it did not seem unreasonable. £48 for the 2 (once you take off the membership discount). That is not over the top for a derby game (although it is in the third tier of English football). Have United and Wednesday met at this level before?

I think it's possible for there to be limited availability of seats together in certain areas, and there still be many thousand spare.

The piggies are brining 4600 fans (http://www.swfc.co.uk/page/AwayTickets/0,,10304~2457314,00.html). Does that mean we'll give them the whole Bramall Lane end?

I will stick with my mid 20's prediction. We got almost 18 for the first home game, similar for Bury and around 17 for Huddersfield (though I am sure they brung a few). I think, despite the dip in form, that there'll be a few extra Unitedites that turn up a week on Sunday. With it being an early Sunday kick off I would go for 20k Blades. Add the Piggies to that and we've got 25k (give or take 1k)

 

[shorehamview]

If we win then there will be precious few pigs who will admit to having been. If, God forbid, they win, then approximately half of South Yorkshire will have been in the away end, and the cunts will all be crowing about it as soon as the match finishes and for several months after. My piggy mates and relatives will be sending themselves into frenzies with all the texts they can manage, and if we win they'll all have mysterious sonnection problems, deafness, blindness and general ignorance.

 

[Del]

I would love to be there, but for me it is a choice between a ticket or putting food on the table - if it was just me I'd cut back - but think social services might have something to say if I start starving my 4 year old to go to a football match!

 

[Pedro Verde]

Have United and Wednesday met at this level before?

Unfortunately we have I remember a game just after Christmas at the Sty over 30 years ago we had too much Turkey for dinner and didnt turn up they beat us The Pigs called it a massacre

 

[dutchblade]

27.837 (including me)

 

[Toronto Blade]

4600 for the derby wow we took 4000 to a jpt match.

 

[Ollessendro]

To be fair, I think Wednesday would probably bring more if they had been given a bigger allocation.

Linked to the above, at what level do you set the allocation to maximise attendence and revenue, but not give them too much of an unfair advantage? For example, we are predicting mid 20's for the clash next week. Would it be worth giving Wednesday and extra few thousand tickets to bump up numbers and revenue? But any more than 6 or 7k Piggies would mean they are really in force and could make some real noise. Would that be shooting us in the foot? 4.6k actually seems about right, but it is interesting to think about. Some people earlier were talking about numbers and money etc and a sure fire way to increase both, would be to give them more tickets.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

The pigs give us about 6k don't they? And we always sell out & generally have several hundred more dotted around the Sty.

 

[raul]

Is it likely to be segregation that's restricted them to 4600? A netted no-go zone at both sides of the end?

 

[sheafviewblade]

Would like to see it closer to 30000 that 25000 but i have my doubts

 

[GainsboroBlade]

gonna go with 28,000 .. who cares about the price its the Steel city derby.. my dads skint so bought him a ticket but fuck it, gonna be a great day( hopefully )

 

[alcoblade]

Is it likely to be segregation that's restricted them to 4600? A netted no-go zone at both sides of the end?

It's restricted to 4,600 so there's room for the pigs to add the obligatory few extra 00's to their away following.

UTB

 

[Toronto Blade]

There is nothing massive about that filthy club.

 

[dkc Blade]

£31 so what?
I paid £30 to sit on the pigs cantilever stand way back in the early 90's, when Dane scored and Bobby D got a couple.
Couldn't get on the away end even tho I had as season tkt so bribed a pig for a tkt. £30 about 20 years ago and worth every penny. Did the double over the bastards winning 1-3 that night.
I know times are hard but 1 game all season you can't miss- surely?
I'll guess at 27500

Yeah I was at that game too, on the North Stand. There was half a section full of Blades towards the away end. Best derby game I've been to.

 

[Tuns]

If proof were still needed, this thread shows how detached the game has become from at least part of its traditional supporter base.

Most on here seem to think £30 is nothing to find if you really want to go.

I'm sure it is fairly easy to find for the majority of posters on this forum and perhaps the ones that can't find such cash so easily stopped going a while ago and they just don't matter to United or to football anymore.

I'm lucky in being fairly well off but I know plenty of people who would find £30 to watch a match hard to justify to their families.

At least they'll be spared the humiliation of seeing the Blades roll over and having our bellies tickled by our more up for it neighbours.

 

[alcoblade]

If proof were still needed, this thread shows how detached the game has become from at least part of its traditional supporter base.

Most on here seem to think £30 is nothing to find if you really want to go.

I'm sure it is fairly easy to find for the majority of posters on this forum and perhaps the ones that can't find such cash so easily stopped going a while ago and they just don't matter to United or to football anymore.

I'm lucky in being fairly well off but I know plenty of people who would find £30 to watch a match hard to justify to their families.

At least they'll be spared the humiliation of seeing the Blades roll over and having our bellies tickled by our more up for it neighbours.

It's £24 on the kop with membership. Sorry for those "die hards" who find the angle of view there doesn't quite suit their taste. It's our top game of the season. £24 really isn't excessive. It's offering football too cheaply for the last few years that have left some expecting top pay less than a tenner every week. Get real.

Football is expensive with players earning far too much, but it seems many expect someoen else to subsidise their support.

"At least they'll be spared the humiliation of seeing the Blades roll over and having our bellies tickled by our more up for it neighbours"....you'd be a real asset in the trenches....

UTB

 

[Ollessendro]

If proof were still needed, this thread shows how detached the game has become from at least part of its traditional supporter base.

Most on here seem to think £30 is nothing to find if you really want to go.

I'm sure it is fairly easy to find for the majority of posters on this forum and perhaps the ones that can't find such cash so easily stopped going a while ago and they just don't matter to United or to football anymore.

I'm lucky in being fairly well off but I know plenty of people who would find £30 to watch a match hard to justify to their families.

At least they'll be spared the humiliation of seeing the Blades roll over and having our bellies tickled by our more up for it neighbours.

I can understand why people might have fallen out with the game, why working class people might be disillusioned with football etc, but having a dig for the club for charging £26 (that is how much it is for a ticket on the kop - get your facts right) for the biggest game of the season just seems a bit daft for me. It is about 4 hours work if you earn minimum wage.

 

[S64 Blade]

With it being Wednesdays the price is irrelevant unless they start charging £40+. It's the other games where the club can be accused of overcharging.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

To be fair, unless you are completely broke, in poor health or live in another country - there is no excuse not to go to what is clearly the biggest game of the season.

As others have said, I agree the club charge too much for some of the other matches - but you can't argue that in this case.

UTB FTO

 

[SwissBlade]

The thing with the football its generally an easy decision because it comes out of peoples disposable income, so you either have the money or you don't.

If you have the money, then its a simple choice of shall I go or not.

The difference between £20, £25 or £30 is largely irrelevant because if you haven't got £20 then its unlikely that you'll be able to get £30

If it was a tenner, people would complain that they can't get tickets because its a sell out

This game will probably end up being my cheapest of the season as I am in Moscow on Saturday, so my company will pay to fly me back to Manchester via frankfurt AND give me Monday off to recover - Result.

Is anyone travelling further than from Moscow for this game? (1900 miles)

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Any chance of me being able to get a ticket on the day?

 

[Kenilworth]

Standing is the answer to the pricing problems. It's the only answer to reach out ot those that have to make such choices.

Personally, I would still elect to stand given that choice. Football is a game to be watched standing up IMO.
That's where the energy comes from, that's where the emotion swells from, that's how you can bellow out the songs at top volume and roar the Blades on to victory!

Lets' face it - we all get up from our seats when the game gets to those tasty parts anyway.

The clubs accepted seating as a means to extract more revenue out of the punters.
They were pleased that it came under the banner of H&S 'cos they didn't have to justifiy it themselves.
Now crowds are dwindling and the stadiums are struggling they need to do something about it sharpish.

Too many people aliented from the game. Get em back at a price point they can cope with.
It's a bloody sport for all not just the elite few.

 

[axel smeets]

Any chance of me being able to get a ticket on the day?

No, I think swfc have sold their allocation. You might be able to get a ticket for the beamback though, try www.swfc.co.uk.

 

[SwissBlade]

Any chance of me being able to get a ticket on the day?

Why would you want to get one on the day, just get one online now, from the OS...

Tickets will go on general sale to all supporters from Monday 12th September 2011.

That said, also from the OS:

Please note that for safety and segregation purposes, tickets will only be on sale to supporters who have a purchasing history with Sheffield United and are already registered on our ticketing system.

 

[alcoblade]

Standing is the answer to the pricing problems. It's the only answer to reach out ot those that have to make such choices.

Personally, I would still elect to stand given that choice. Football is a game to be watched standing up IMO.
That's where the energy comes from, that's where the emotion swells from, that's how you can bellow out the songs at top volume and roar the Blades on to victory!

Lets' face it - we all get up from our seats when the game gets to those tasty parts anyway.

The clubs accepted seating as a means to extract more revenue out of the punters.
They were pleased that it came under the banner of H&S 'cos they didn't have to justifiy it themselves.
Now crowds are dwindling and the stadiums are struggling they need to do something about it sharpish.

Too many people aliented from the game. Get em back at a price point they can cope with.
It's a bloody sport for all not just the elite few.

I've heard this argument before but It doesn't make sense. The club has so much money to find, and it's divided up many ways. Either way, those costs are fixed. How would ripping the seats up and simly letting peope stand in any way reduce the costs to the club, and how would that feed through to lower prices?

I don't get it.

UTB

PS - I'm all for the return of standing. I just don't see the financial argument.

 

[Pedro Verde]

I've heard this argument before but It doesn't make sense. The club has so much money to find, and it's divided up many ways. Either way, those costs are fixed. How would ripping the seats up and simly letting peope stand in any way reduce the costs to the club, and how would that feed through to lower prices?

I don't get it.

UTB

PS - I'm all for the return of standing. I just don't see the financial argument.

I agree it may get a few more through the turnstiles but the club has costs to meet eg wages, wages and more wages so they still need the turnover to meet those costs, these costs will not decrease just because fans are standing up so admission prices will not come down unless costs come down or the standing encourages another 5000 on the gate every home game which will not happen

 

[DuncDisorderly]

The clubs accepted seating as a means to extract more revenue out of the punters.

They were directed to by the findings of Lord Taylor, I recall. It did give the administrators a chance to take football up-market, but then if you were around in the 1970's you might vaguely recall how the standing experience might have been good for atmosphere, but was pretty shocking otherwise...

Standing is the answer to the pricing problems. It's the only answer to reach out ot those that have to make such choices...Too many people aliented from the game. Get em back at a price point they can cope with.

Pricing is the answer to pricing problems. You have to ask, what price per ticket to fill the stadium, then you have to wait for habits to form. Wigan have cheap season tickets but can't fill the stadium. Charltons recent ticket promotion didn't fill the ground, on the other hand, Man Utd could probably raise their prices another 50% and still fill Old Trafford.

Social conditions have also changed. Its not Dad finishing work at the foundry at 12 on Saturday, having a few beers, watching the match for 2/6d, then home for tea on the table. Male roles especially have changed dramatically (anyone who claims 'its a mans world' has fundamentally mis-understood how it all works, imo...), and it is just more difficult to fit it all in.

Now crowds are dwindling and the stadiums are struggling they need to do something about it sharpish...

The dwindling crowds are not in themselves due to standing/seating. There are lots of people out there struggling to pay the bills, never mind pay for silly football, even if it was still 2/6d...

 

[Ollessendro]

I am all for brining back safe standing* but do not see why it would lower prices and make football more affordable for all. A cheaper terracing area maybe. But if it is popular, then the price will soon go up.

Football ticket prices are all about simple economics (as are most things). It's supply and demand (and the elasticity of that demand).

A club sets ticket prices based on calculations of supply and demand. The supply is fairly straight forward (30-33k) and demand will vary due to several factors (see below) but can be estimated and clubs should have good data from previous matches/seasons etc.

Demand tends to be affected by (disposable) income, the price of that good, tastes and preferences (and the amount you desire tha good) and price of other goods/substitutes. Then you need to take into account price elasticity of demand, i.e. how responsive demand will be for a change in price. Luxury goods tend to be elastic (i.e. you increase price and then get a more than proportionate fall in demand) and necessities tend to be inelastic (you increase price and get a less than than proportionate fall in demand). Although there are other complicating factors and it is never that simple, football ticket prices are fairly inelastic. Hence clubs can charge higher prices and people will pay (within reason).

Taking Dunc's example. Wigan have set low prices because demand is low and they want to increase it. But people in Wigan prefer rugby (tastes and preferences) and rugby tickets are cheaper (a season tikcet is less than £200). Hence we see the JJB stadium (or whatever it is now called) not full, despite them being a Prem team. In Manchester football rules (no real substiutue for watching Man U if you are a fan) and you are red or blue. You get a ticket for Old Trafford and you will see high quality football, experience good facilities etc so it is desirable (tastes and preferences). Hence you have high levels of demand and as Dunc quite rightly says they could fill the stadium another 50% easily. Charlton have decreased prices, but they are crap and are in the third tier (not very desirable - tastes and preferences). I could go on.

In terms of United and the Wednesday match. The demand for these tickets are inelastic. People want to watch it and they will pay. United could decrease ticket prices, but they are likely to get a less than proportionate increase in demand. Hence it is not worth it. Let me illustrate with an example:
- if 20k United's turn up on Sun-di and pay an average of £25 then that is £500'000 in sales revenue.
- if they dropped the prices to say £12, then we might expect to see an extra 4 or 5k. You would attract students, people who are really skint, possibly mutuals etc. But you have to remember that most United afsn would be coming anyway, so you are not reaching out to many. So you get 25k at £12. That's 300'000. Not worth it.

* those of you in favour should sign the petition, join and then follow the instructions (write to the club, your MP etc) if you care about this .... http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php

 

[Darren]

They were directed to by the findings of Lord Taylor, I recall. It did give the administrators a chance to take football up-market, but then if you were around in the 1970's you might vaguely recall how the standing experience might have been good for atmosphere, but was pretty shocking otherwise...




Pricing is the answer to pricing problems. You have to ask, what price per ticket to fill the stadium, then you have to wait for habits to form. Wigan have cheap season tickets but can't fill the stadium. Charltons recent ticket promotion didn't fill the ground, on the other hand, Man Utd could probably raise their prices another 50% and still fill Old Trafford.

Social conditions have also changed. Its not Dad finishing work at the foundry at 12 on Saturday, having a few beers, watching the match for 2/6d, then home for tea on the table. Male roles especially have changed dramatically (anyone who claims 'its a mans world' has fundamentally mis-understood how it all works, imo...), and it is just more difficult to fit it all in.




The dwindling crowds are not in themselves due to standing/seating. There are lots of people out there struggling to pay the bills, never mind pay for silly football, even if it was still 2/6d...

An interesting point is that from the early 50's the late 80's the decline in football attendances more or less mirrored the long time decline in the Labour vote. I would suggest that the underlying cause of both these phenomena was the decline of manual work and the male working class solidaristic ethos that went with it.

Come the 90's both the LP and football reinvented themselves to appeal to the middle class and saw an upward trend in their appeal.

 

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by DuncDisorderly
They were directed to by the findings of Lord Taylor, I recall. It did give the administrators a chance to take football up-market, but then if you were around in the 1970's you might vaguely recall how the standing experience might have been good for atmosphere, but was pretty shocking otherwise...




Pricing is the answer to pricing problems. You have to ask, what price per ticket to fill the stadium, then you have to wait for habits to form. Wigan have cheap season tickets but can't fill the stadium. Charltons recent ticket promotion didn't fill the ground, on the other hand, Man Utd could probably raise their prices another 50% and still fill Old Trafford.

Social conditions have also changed. Its not Dad finishing work at the foundry at 12 on Saturday, having a few beers, watching the match for 2/6d, then home for tea on the table. Male roles especially have changed dramatically (anyone who claims 'its a mans world' has fundamentally mis-understood how it all works, imo...), and it is just more difficult to fit it all in.




The dwindling crowds are not in themselves due to standing/seating. There are lots of people out there struggling to pay the bills, never mind pay for silly football, even if it was still 2/6d...
An interesting point is that from the early 50's the late 80's the decline in football attendances more or less mirrored the long time decline in the Labour vote. I would suggest that the underlying cause of both these phenomena was the decline of manual work and the male working class solidaristic ethos that went with it.

Come the 90's both the LP and football reinvented themselves to appeal to the middle class and saw an upward trend in their appeal.

There were several reasons for the decline in crowds from their peak in the late 1940's, but the main reason was, IMHO, television.

In addition, it must be remembered that attendance was at an artificially high peak in the post war years, due to a combination of factors:

1. Many luxuries were rationed: football tickets were not.
2. People had missed the game
3. As When Saturday Comes put it: "I've just won the bloody War so you're not stopping me going to every Doncaster home match. And Barnsley too".