Chris Wilder and money

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It’s not the transfer fees, that goes to the selling club, it’s the wages, we couldn’t get anywhere near the wages Villa offered Watkins, same with Cash....
Right, that's true. But when we didn't get Watkins or Cash, why did we go on and sign big money (tranfer fee wise, mostly) alternatives to them? We could've as well signed cheap alternatives, and the end result would've been the same.
 



I don't see why some people find it so hard to understand. We have had to try and build a stronger squad with a very limited wage bill for this league. We weren't even able to compete with most of the championship on wages when we went up. The fees are very misleading, as I've said, hes had to build a squad, the money invested in player fees has only been from TV/Sponsorship money. You will probably also find the reported fees arnt what they are and may be based on part of the fee being payed if we survive relegation etc.
 
He's a Sheffielder, and a United fan

So he is automatically programmed to reject quality, style and creativity

He is automatically programmed to believe that these type of players are all troublemakers

He is automatically programmed to believe that 5 players on £20,000 a week is better than one player on £100,000 a week.

He is automatically programmed to want, grit, determination, graft, but overlook quality.

His Sheffieldness will always mean that his idea of a bargain will always be strange.

My other half does it regularly, "Oh look at these packets of dashboard ashtrays for a 1973 Ford Cortina, they were only a quid, right bargain so I got 10 of them"

You can't use the same logic when buying footballers that you use when walking around poundland

But that's the way it will always be, no matter who's in charge.

So Wilders the best man for the job, nobody else can manage the special needs club, they don't understand it
 
Why don’t you fuck off back to Owlstalk? Why are you still here it’s bizarre, haven’t you got bigger issues than us to worry about? Sad twat!
their all suicidal over there on porktalk and have resigned themselves to pub league football next season oh and for some reason they dont like pullis anymore 😁😁😁
 
Did you see Zivkovic and Restos who we signed from overseas. Can maybe add Berge into that too. We at least sign top championship end players with our policy.

I don’t trust us going over seas
Did anybody see them? Maybe give that response if we'd actually seen them over more than a few 5 minute appearances
 
When the owner can't finance your preferred signings so you have to sign your 3rd/4th choice then I don't think you can be too harsh on Chris.
When we were looking at Maupay and McBurnie, if we'd signed neither people would have gone mental and said we lack ambishun.
Compared to other teams his hands are tied.
I agree with this, do you think our back up signings have been panic signings though? I think that’s questionable. My reason for this,

Maupay is so much better than McBurnie

Cash another league to Bogle/ Lowe

Berge/ Ramsdale were our first choice I presume

Watkins looks ready for this league in comparison to a raw Brewster (who I think will tear it up next season)

Wilder said this was our best window to date.
 
The big money we've spent has been on players 23 and under. It's far too early to say whether or not they'll be good signings in the long run. Rhian Brewster is 20 and has long been considered one of the better forwards in Europe in his age group. If he reaches his potential, £20-odd million is fuck all. Personally, I think he's class and will score a shitload of goals, I just don't expect them to be this season. Berge clearly is a talent. Ramsdale is still only 22. Bogle is a 20 year old youth international with a high ceiling, and since he signed, Baldock has been one of our better players.

If we'd spent £20m+ 28-32 year olds, on big wages, then that would worry me more.
 
Likening Chris to Colin in the transfer market or correct - absolutely hopeless. However, and as touched on earlier, don’t the senior management talk as a group when Chris suggests another dud....
Please don’t get this out of context as I am a massive Wilder fan but he is very ‘Yorkshire’ in his manner. His aggressive / abrasive attitude is unlikely to take a ‘no’ too well?
 
I remember Wilder commenting that Clayton Donaldson was an Aldi signing. Not quality but did a job for us.

Feels like what we've done since is shop the middle aisle in the hope that we stumble across something new and cheap that turns out to be good when in reality most of it is utter tat while everyone else is going round John Lewis paying a bit extra but safe in the knowledge that they're getting a quality product.
 
Right, that's true. But when we didn't get Watkins or Cash, why did we go on and sign big money (tranfer fee wise, mostly) alternatives to them? We could've as well signed cheap alternatives, and the end result would've been the same.
because in my opinion Wilder rested on his laurels a little bit, and made the assumption based on last season that our 1st team was competitive enough to get mid table again so he probably planned to have Cash as rotation with Baldock (potentially another stumbling block in negotiations).

It looks like the plan B was to invest heavily in younger players to get a decent second string side going in preparation for the 1st team players being faded out gradually... when what he really should've been doing is improving the first team to make sure we arent sitting still/going backwards.

I think the transfer strategy backfired, however Wilder did have his hands tied to some extent as we can only afford younger players who have affordable wages
 
Agreed but it’s an expensive middle isle - more like the reduced section but somebody has removed discounted price label...We have so much rubbish that won’t / shouldn’t figure in PL games taking what I would expect are decent wages...
 
Should be banned from making transfers with costing more than £5 million.

There are plenty of free agents, loans from abroad and domestically to look at, along with forcing him to look beyond Dover for new players.
 



The complexities of signing players is far more of a challenge for Wilder, than his Premier League peers.

The thing is for United or any club with a limited budget, the comparatively few big transfers we bring in, ‘have’ to be a success, failure is just not an option. We have a relatively low wage ceiling, which reduces our talent pool still further and the 2 or 3 players who arrive, carry the hopes and dreams of the terraces and consequently their every performance is forensically analysed by supporters.

The same thing doesn’t happen at Villa, where they sign ten or fifteen players, who cares if four of them don’t work out. Chelsea sign Danny Drinkwater, for £75 m, goes out on loan and is nowhere near the first team. I’m sure it’s an inconvenience that gets a brief mention in the pub. but that’s all it is?

The reality is 95% of the Premier League are filling their trolleys at Waitrose, while we’re rooting about in the Whoops section at Asda, hoping to find a Fillet steak that no one else has seen and that won’t cost all our weeks benefit.

All things considered, it’s no surprise when it transpires that the latest budget signing isn’t the messiah we’d hoped for, people say ‘Wilders recruitment history is shit’

(Fair enough it is, but you’ve got to sympathise with the blokes situation, haven’t you?) 🤔
 
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Why don’t you fuck off back to Owlstalk? Why are you still here it’s bizarre, haven’t you got bigger issues than us to worry about? Sad twat!
The 🐷 on here are so transparent, why any blade would respond to them, is beyond me. Ignore button works a treat.
 
The 🐷 on here are so transparent, why any blade would respond to them, is beyond me. Ignore button works a treat.
It’s not like there isn’t any threads on the same subject, there is, started by Blades. I’m old fashioned in that if a supporter of any other club said “you’re a bit shit at the moment” I’d agree but if a pig said it my response would be “not as shit as you twats”.
 
Would you rather pay £18m for Ramsdale or spend £3/4m on Foster and get a couple of seasons from him. Wages wouldn't be too much different to Ramsdale, but frees up so much more cash to invest. He's conceded the second lowest in the championship so he's not past it just yet.

Brentford signed Ivan Toney for £6m can you genuinely say he's £18m less of a player than Brewster? He’s currently top scorer in the championship.

Lowe and Bogle £8m literally what was the point in that amount on them two? Lowe doesn’t look ready for the championship.

McBurnie instead of Watkins last season when we could have got him cheaper.

The list goes on. So yes, in my opinion we’ve overspent.
Sounding like a broken record again but CWAK had Toney at Northampton. The fact that they didn’t make a move at £6m should tell you that he’s not good enough for the division we’re in?
 
To me it’s defeatist to say we just can’t compete.

We have been given the funds. We clearly have just have not spent them very wisely. I can’t believe we extracted every ounce out of that budget. Our team could have been substantially improved with some imagination and creative scouting.

some may still come good but it’s not looking that promising at the moment.
 
The team we played last night had a player who cost more than our whole team! Now let that sink in! We are living in a time when even championship players are in double figures in the millions. We quite rightly aren’t paying ridiculous wages unfortunately we are picking from a different pool to most other PL teams. These players aren’t PL players they are however very good players and in my opinion we have made sure if we do go down we aren’t going to cripple the club and still have a great chance to go back up.
Simple fact is we have had such a rise to success that it has caught up with us.
I agree with everything you’ve said thus far in the thread. However here I differ the issue is we’re picking in the same pool as every premier league club now. In league one and the champ we picked up underrated older players who we thought could play a very specific role for us and so called hidden gems out of league one. This was all done with a scouting department and recruitment team whose record was excellent despite the very short memories of what seems to be a lot of Unitedites. Unfortunately we are now in a league where every single teams scouting department is excellent there is no player we’re looking at that they don’t know about and the press is desperate to sniff out any hint of a transfer nothing goes under the radar and as has rightly been pointed out we can’t compete for wages so our options are limited to players who don’t get other prem offers and players who buy into the managers vision completely and reject other offers.
 
The team that finished 9th was basically the promotion team. Just about all the new signings have either flopped, failed to fit in to the formation, fallen out with the manager, or been flawed in some way - C Robinson, L Freeman, McBurnie, Mousset, Berge, Lowe, Ramsdale - that’s a long and expensive list. You can’t put all that down to the wage structure surely.
 
Would you rather pay £18m for Ramsdale or spend £3/4m on Foster and get a couple of seasons from him. Wages wouldn't be too much different to Ramsdale, but frees up so much more cash to invest. He's conceded the second lowest in the championship so he's not past it just yet.

Brentford signed Ivan Toney for £6m can you genuinely say he's £18m less of a player than Brewster? He’s currently top scorer in the championship.

Lowe and Bogle £8m literally what was the point in that amount on them two? Lowe doesn’t look ready for the championship.

McBurnie instead of Watkins last season when we could have got him cheaper.

The list goes on. So yes, in my opinion we’ve overspent.
The Ramsdale point stands as foster was getable but the club wanted a long term answer there it’s swings and roundabouts really but your point certainly has merit.

Lowe and Bogle are at this stage in their development cover players in positions we needed cover and circa 4 million is incredibly cheap by prem standards but our going rate for cover players see Osborn and Robinson. However I accept that 8 mill wasn’t evenly divided between the two.

Unfortunately the Watkins instead of McBurnie point doesn’t hold water. I’m not disputing it would’ve been the superior deal to make as Watkins definitely looks a very good player at this level. The problem comes in holding this up as a possibility when it simply wasn’t one Brentford had sold maupay that summer for a ridiculous profit meaning they had no need to sell Watkins and in fact publicly said they had done their business and Watkins wasn’t for sale. Brentford have a clearly defined business plan and the plan was to sell Watkins this summer so when they said he wasn’t for sale he wasn’t for sale.
 
Would you rather pay £18m for Ramsdale or spend £3/4m on Foster and get a couple of seasons from him. Wages wouldn't be too much different to Ramsdale, but frees up so much more cash to invest. He's conceded the second lowest in the championship so he's not past it just yet.

Brentford signed Ivan Toney for £6m can you genuinely say he's £18m less of a player than Brewster? He’s currently top scorer in the championship.

Lowe and Bogle £8m literally what was the point in that amount on them two? Lowe doesn’t look ready for the championship.

McBurnie instead of Watkins last season when we could have got him cheaper.

The list goes on. So yes, in my opinion we’ve overspent.

I think that Brewster will turn out to be a great investment and a lot better then Toney. Other than that though, I can't disagree with a word of that. Foster should have been No.1 choice, literally.
 
The team that finished 9th was basically the promotion team. Just about all the new signings have either flopped, failed to fit in to the formation, fallen out with the manager, or been flawed in some way - C Robinson, L Freeman, McBurnie, Mousset, Berge, Lowe, Ramsdale - that’s a long and expensive list. You can’t put all that down to the wage structure surely.
It’s expensive by our standard but not by prem standards there’s only Berge, Ramsdale and McBurnie who weren’t signed for prem pocket change there and even our most expensive transfers in that list and probably for below average prem fees now. The strikers last year looked good in a good side but that promotion group is now approaching its sell by and it shows.
 
The big money we've spent has been on players 23 and under. It's far too early to say whether or not they'll be good signings in the long run. Rhian Brewster is 20 and has long been considered one of the better forwards in Europe in his age group. If he reaches his potential, £20-odd million is fuck all. Personally, I think he's class and will score a shitload of goals, I just don't expect them to be this season. Berge clearly is a talent. Ramsdale is still only 22. Bogle is a 20 year old youth international with a high ceiling, and since he signed, Baldock has been one of our better players.

If we'd spent £20m+ 28-32 year olds, on big wages, then that would worry me more.
That's a great point. People keep saying that the recruitment has been a disaster but it is perhaps pretty short-sighted, of course most are rightly worried about being relegated so from that perspective recruitment may not have been the best. However, from other perspectives it is very much early days right now on Brewster and Ramsdale, both are very young for their positions and once fully settled could turn out be bargains. Berge will likely command a similar fee to what was paid should the worst happen and relegation does unfold and he leaves. Bogle is another for the future and with all the above the one thing that Wilder and Knill surely have credit in the bank for his development of players with most being improved immeasurably (enough so that a lot have risen through the leagues).
 
I don't see why some people find it so hard to understand. We have had to try and build a stronger squad with a very limited wage bill for this league. We weren't even able to compete with most of the championship on wages when we went up. The fees are very misleading, as I've said, hes had to build a squad, the money invested in player fees has only been from TV/Sponsorship money. You will probably also find the reported fees arnt what they are and may be based on part of the fee being payed if we survive relegation etc.
Exactly. The less you pay the bigger the gamble and the better the player the more competition for their signature. Most players will choose more money of course as we all likely would. What you have then is recruiting players who are either 3rd or 4th choice or you are rolling the dice...sometimes both at the same time.
 



We haven’t even signed top end championship players, we’ve just signed your average mid table championship players.
Lowe,Bogle,Osborn,Burke,Robinson all average championship players.
The recruitment needs a big re think.
Look at at Leeds they signed 2 full Spanish internationals while we’re shopping in the championship.
 

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