CONFIRMED Che Adams

[sheffielder]

The size of a club does not dictate whether you keep a player. Finances, and the player, dictate whether you keep a player.*

*At League 1 level especially.

If we turn down bids like we are doing then Che Will naturally ask to double his wages, so if you keep him you're probably doing it at the expense of bringing in another player. Always had no problem with a selling club, IF you replace with new up and coming talent. Not 31 year old travellers.

 

[Ricky]

It has everything to do with the issue. We sell our most valuable asset every year which is a major factor as to why we are still in this league. Other clubs our size dont roll over like we do. Leeds kept hold of Beckford and got promoted, Southampton kept hold of Chamberlain and got promoted, Hudders kept hold of Rhodes and got promoted. Lets try it, just once.

Adams is nowhere near as important as Beckford and Rhodes were though.

If you said the same thing about Maguire, Blackman or even Murphy I'd agree.

We don't have anyone important to sell now.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Adams is nowhere near as important as Beckford and Rhodes were though.

If you said the same thing about Maguire, Blackman or even Murphy I'd agree.

We don't have anyone important to sell now.

The season we went down we had Maguire, Williamson, Quinn, Evans - all of which could have been sold. We kept them and went for it.

We all know what happened, and missing out on promotion at the first attempt is very costly.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

The season we went down we had Maguire, Williamson, Quinn, Evans - all of which could have been sold. We kept them and went for it.

We all know what happened, and missing out on promotion at the first attempt is very costly.

That's what happens when you ask Wilson to drive the ship, shocking decision.

 

[Maidenhead]

It has everything to do with the issue. We sell our most valuable asset every year which is a major factor as to why we are still in this league. Other clubs our size dont roll over like we do. Leeds kept hold of Beckford and got promoted, Southampton kept hold of Chamberlain and got promoted, Hudders kept hold of Rhodes and got promoted. Lets try it, just once.

And which of those clubs was in this division for 6yrs with the grossly reduced income it brings from TV, advertising and sponsorship?

 

[metalblade]

Name a club that has been in the third tier of English football for 5+ years that hasn't sold their best players.

Stupid arguement ...........
That's just it those that haven't sold their best players are no longer in league one.

 

[Booker4]

Stupid arguement ...........
That's just it those that haven't sold their best players are no longer in league one.

I agree with the sentiment but are we saying we should turn down decent offers for players when they want to play at a higher level and then keep them against their will? Every player has their price, and most we've sold have gone for a decent fee, other than McDonald who had our pants down via his agent, and Quinn who we needed to get off the wage bill, and he was far too good for League One too. The Blackman sale was probably the one deal we should have not done in my view. What we've done wrong is not invest the transfer fees received well enough, usually due to the manager. Clough's tenure springs to mind.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The season we went down we had Maguire, Williamson, Quinn, Evans - all of which could have been sold. We kept them and went for it.

We all know what happened, and missing out on promotion at the first attempt is very costly.

Maguire had about 2 or 3 appearances to his name and was very unproven. He was earning a pittance and wouldn't have gone for much at that stage. No way we'd sell him.

Williamson had been injured for the best part of a year and nobody would want to pay the wages he was on.

Quinn had a poor season in getting relegated and wasn't attractive to clubs because of his high wages.

Evans was untouchable due to the rape charges hanging over him,

We did manage to move on Ward, Yeates, Henderson, Bogdanovic etc.

 

[BushBlade]

Maguire had about 2 or 3 appearances to his name and was very unproven. He was earning a pittance and wouldn't have gone for much at that stage. No way we'd sell him.

Williamson had been injured for the best part of a year and nobody would want to pay the wages he was on.

Quinn had a poor season in getting relegated and wasn't attractive to clubs because of his high wages.

Evans was untouchable due to the rape charges hanging over him,

We did manage to move on Ward, Yeates, Henderson, Bogdanovic etc.

Yes, but I think the point is, if we'd have gone up then we probably wouldn't have had to sell players like H and Lowton, not unless we got stupid offers for them. The longer we're down here, the more players we have to sell because no one wants a career in the lower leagues when they can be earning good money and making a name for themselves.

Neither Saints, nor Leeds, nor any club our size has made such a pig's arse of getting out of L1.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

but was he Englands best full back when we sold him , no wasnt even in the running

man utd let Pogba go and its costing them 100m to get him back , thats crass misjudgement
makes letting kyle go look sane

His enormous potential was very obvious to anyone who knows anything about football. As was Pogba’s. That’s why Man U didn’t want to let him go. It was the player’s choice to leave at the end of his contract.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

REALLY
Some in the know said Slew was a future international
n truth you can never tell, only in hindsight

Some said Slew COULD become a very good player.

It was obvious that barring serious injury or going off the rails that Walker WOULD be a very good player. He already looked like a very good championship full back at 19 after 6 games. He was our brightest spark in the PO final v Burnley and for once, people were OK with the sale of a star player (Naughton) as we had an even better player there to replace him. But we went and sold him as well when there was absolutely no need. The player himself didn’t push for the move and the money wasn’t huge. Just short sightedness for your hero.

 

[BushBlade]

It has everything to do with the issue. We sell our most valuable asset every year which is a major factor as to why we are still in this league. Other clubs our size dont roll over like we do. Leeds kept hold of Beckford and got promoted, Southampton kept hold of Chamberlain and got promoted, Hudders kept hold of Rhodes and got promoted. Lets try it, just once.

Didn't Saints sell other players on their way up though? Like Bale? And how many players have they sold since? Hundreds.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Yes, but I think the point is, if we'd have gone up then we probably wouldn't have had to sell players like H and Lowton, not unless we got stupid offers for them. The longer we're down here, the more players we have to sell because no one wants a career in the lower leagues when they can be earning good money and making a name for themselves.

Neither Saints, nor Leeds, nor any club our size has made such a pig's arse of getting out of L1.

I'd add that the longer we remain in Div 1 the stronger the message that this is a club that has neither the desire or resource to attempt to get promotion. When there's an air of stagnancy about a club players soon realise that if they wish to better themselves they must look elsewhere.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Stupid arguement ...........
That's just it those that haven't sold their best players are no longer in league one.

We didn't sell our best players the first season, that was bad management/luck.

You dont go up that first season then you are asking for trouble.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Didn't Saints sell other players on their way up though? Like Bale? And how many players have they sold since? Hundreds.

They sold Bale when they were in the championship for £5million rising to £10million and then agreed to take £7million in exchange for early payment due to their desperate financial situation at the time.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

We didn't sell our best players the first season, that was bad management/luck.

You dont go up that first season then you are asking for trouble.

Leeds/ Pigs/ Udders/ Charlton weren't in their first season when they got back up.

 

[BushBlade]

I'd add that the longer we remain in Div 1 the stronger the message that this is a club that has neither the desire or resource to attempt to get promotion. When there's an air of stagnancy about a club players soon realise that if they wish to better themselves they must look elsewhere.

I think the desire is there which makes the lack of competence even more disturbing. We spend enough to be continually running at a loss but appear incapable of using the money to give us any kind of advantage over our rivals.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Leeds/ Pigs/ Udders/ Charlton weren't in their first season when they got back up.

Charlton created that team from scratch that season.

Pigs team had no stand-out players from the previous season.

They all built squads to get out of the division. For us to do that we may have to sell Adams, who's not even close to being our best player.

 

[Darthblade]

Charlton created that team from scratch that season.

Pigs team had no stand-out players from the previous season.

They all built squads to get out of the division. For us to do that we may have to sell Adams, who's not even close to being our best player.

This plan is built upon the assumption that Tufty would be allowed the proceeds of sale for building a competitive squad for this season ........

Do you really believe that this would actually happen

UTB & FTP

 

[itsinyerblood]

I think the desire is there which makes the lack of competence even more disturbing. We spend enough to be continually running at a loss but appear incapable of using the money to give us any kind of advantage over our rivals.

Sorry BB, let me re-word my question. Having the desire to gain promotion is one thing, but the alarming lack of progress we make where purchasing players is concerned is frightening. It's as if, with a few notable exceptions, there appears to be a mediocrity curse on this club, and we spend money on one also-ran after another. The advantage you refer to has never been there, we've rarely come close to being able to field a first team that convinces in it's desire to win more than it loses. I despair (probably to do with the absence of competency you refer to) with our apparent inability to compete and better those teams around us. To put it bluntly, we've appeared so mediocre and incapable of showing the resolve necessary to make the progress that all Blades are desperate for. I really hope that in Chris Wilder we've appointed a manager whose judgement of a player is far better than those who've sat in the manager's seat before his arrival.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Charlton created that team from scratch that season.

Pigs team had no stand-out players from the previous season.

They all built squads to get out of the division. For us to do that we may have to sell Adams, who's not even close to being our best player.

Johnnie Jackson and Bradley Wright Phillips, their two main men that season were already there from the season before. They strengthened the rest of the team but kept hold of their main men. That's how teams progress.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Charlton created that team from scratch that season.

Pigs team had no stand-out players from the previous season.

They all built squads to get out of the division. For us to do that we may have to sell Adams, who's not even close to being our best player.

You're right about the pigs though. Madine, O Grady, Marshall, Antonio, Jones, Batth, Semedo etc. were their main men and they all arrived that season.

Only Jermaine Johnson of their better players was there the season before.

If we can build a solid side and use the loan market as well as they did I'll be happy.

 

[BushBlade]

Sorry BB, let me re-word my question. Having the desire to gain promotion is one thing, but the alarming lack of progress we make where purchasing players is concerned is frightening. It's as if, with a few notable exceptions, there appears to be a mediocrity curse on this club, and we spend money on one also-ran after another. The advantage you refer to has never been there, we've rarely come close to being able to field a first team that convinces in it's desire to win more than it loses. I despair (probably to do with the absence of competency you refer to) with our apparent inability to compete and better those teams around us. To put it bluntly, we've appeared so mediocre and incapable of showing the resolve necessary to make the progress that all Blades are desperate for. I really hope that in Chris Wilder we've appointed a manager whose judgement of a player is far better than those who've sat in the manager's seat before his arrival.

Do you really think that every single manager we've had is a poor judge of player or do you think there may be other factors at play?

 

[BushBlade]

You're right about the pigs though. Madine, O Grady, Marshall, Antonio, Jones, Batth, Semedo etc. were their main men and they all arrived that season.

Only Jermaine Johnson of their better players was there the season before.

If we can build a solid side and use the loan market as well as they did I'll be happy.

Funny how their fortunes improved when they got bought by an owner who knows how to run a club.

 

[BushBlade]

Johnnie Jackson and Bradley Wright Phillips, their two main men that season were already there from the season before. They strengthened the rest of the team but kept hold of their main men. That's how teams progress.

If they'd have signed shit those two wouldn't have got them promoted though. Once again, they were under new ownership who found a good manager and backed him financially.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

If they'd have signed shit those two wouldn't have got them promoted though. Once again, they were under new ownership who found a good manager and backed him financially.

True but my point was there that if we have 2 stand out players, we never keep them together for 2-3 whole seasons whilst adding strength to other areas of the team. If we had kept Maguire and Murphy for example then added Sharp, we might have been promoted last season or even the one before.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Do you really think that every single manager we've had is a poor judge of player or do you think there may be other factors at play?

It's not that I consider every manager we've had has been incapable of recognising if a player would prove a useful asset or not. I think our recent managers have made decisions that they believed would help us move forward, the trouble is, most United supporters can soon tell if a player was a worthwhile acquisition. We've fallen short when it comes to buying enough players of the necessary quality to impose ourselves on other teams, and by that I include someone who can pass a ball, or someone whose job is to act as enforcer, or that most glaring of omissions, a brick shit-house of a centre-half who'll command his area and instruct his fellow defenders to do their jobs properly. These are just a few examples, and of course we need two, possibly three quality central defenders for starters, but I suspect you'll know as well as I do what positions need strengthening.

So the answer to your question is no, not all United managers have been poor judges of a player's ability, but our recent acquisitions have, in the main, been underwhelming.

 

[BushBlade]

True but my point was there that if we have 2 stand out players, we never keep them together for 2-3 whole seasons whilst adding strength to other areas of the team. If we had kept Maguire and Murphy for example then added Sharp, we might have been promoted last season or even the one before.

We kept Maguire and MacDonald after the first season and didn't go up.
There's no guaranteed way of going up, you can look at every club that's gone up since we've been down and each have done it slightly differently.

The reasons we haven't gone up are manifold and complex and the bottom line is we don't even know the full story. We don't know what happened behind the scenes at Charlton or the pigs or anyone, to see how they changed things for the better and we don't know what happens behind the scenes at the Lane to truly understand what we're doing wrong, or not doing.

 

[Blade for Sale]

The reasons we haven't gone up are manifold and complex and the bottom line is we don't even know the full story.

The reasons we haven't gone up are due to the fact that we have been worse than at least 3 other teams every year. The one year that an argument could be made against that comes down to a complete failure to prepare for the eventuality of Ched being found guilty, both in terms of a replacement and foresight of what it may do to the morale of the squad. This despite knowing months in advance when the verdict was due.

 

[BushBlade]

It's not that I consider every manager we've had has been incapable of recognising if a player would prove a useful asset or not. I think our recent managers have made decisions that they believed would help us move forward, the trouble is, most United supporters can soon tell if a player was a worthwhile acquisition. We've fallen short when it comes to buying enough players of the necessary quality to impose ourselves on other teams, and by that I include someone who can pass a ball, or someone whose job is to act as enforcer, or that most glaring of omissions, a brick shit-house of a centre-half who'll command his area and instruct his fellow defenders to do their jobs properly. These are just a few examples, and of course we need two, possibly three quality central defenders for starters, but I suspect you'll know as well as I do what positions need strengthening.

So the answer to your question is no, not all United managers have been poor judges of a player's ability, but our recent acquisitions have, in the main, been underwhelming.

But why do we keep falling short of buying the players we need? I'm interested in analysis, not commentary.

Because, I'm at a loss. As I've said in my reply to 1DW, there's a lot we don't know; about how a good club is run and how that compares to how we're run.

My take, based on the tip of the iceberg, the bit I can see is that;

1. We have no real consistency in our finances. We go from binging to purging. Regularly.

2. Our timing is always poor. Even when we spend money, it's at the wrong time, like the JTW when we're already playing catch up.

3. Our sacking of managers is too frequent. Every manager has their own ideas of how to succeed and the type of players they need to implement their plan. That means that every time we sack a manager we not only get lumbered with the signings that haven't worked out (happens to all managers) but with the players that can't do what the new manager wants. This happens every time we sack a manager but we still don't seem to appreciate it or allow for it. Did we really believe that after we'd let Clough sign all his mates they'd be happier or perform better under Ken Dodd and his room for improvement?

4. Diffused objectives. Our goal should be no more than getting up. Ideas about playing pretty football or developing youth are 'would likes' not 'must haves'. When we got relegated from the PL we did this with Robson and we repeated it with Wilson. We chose managers for their football style over their ability to get clubs promoted. In fact we managed to repeat the mistake of employing managers to do a job when they'd just been sacked for failing to do that job at another club. We then managed to appoint two successors who had good reputations as coaches but had proven little as managers. Nothing, in Weir's case.

5. Massive turnover of board members and directors.

6. Our strategy or our MO in L1 appears to be very similar to the one that got us relegated from the championship.

There's probably more but I've been distracted by work.