Budget 2020/21

[Brian Deane]

Does this figure thats been plucked out of thin air include the wages. Not just the players wages but the Clubs wages as a whole ? Were doomed doomed if it is

 

[CentralQuay]

I don’t believe it’ll be as low as £20 million for a moment however if it was true, it would be a truly fascinating window. Unknown names and unfancied talents coming in with us all wondering what CWAK had in mind and what they could do with them. If true, bring it on as the other PL teams would be in a much worse mess than us, and I’ll take our talent scouting from the lower leagues over theirs.

Wrong market to look at.

Value is always abroad.

 

[Harrisblade]

I suspect it might be a bit less, unless that's wages and transfers. We'll have chopped a bit of the wage bill with people leaving at the end of the season. I suspect he'll raise some money from sales as well.

Buying the club and losing £20 million of TV money, plus all that gate money lost. I suspect it will be a fairly frugal window, unless a long-term target pops up (such as a keeper).

But as we've said many times before, few if any, fees are paid in one lump sum.
All our costs have to be calculated over a timescale of 2-3 years, which includes at least one PL season payment, plus 2 further seasons of parachute payments.
Plus, I presume that most sensible clubs, of which we are certainly one, will have clauses in contracts to cover relegation from the PL

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Wrong market to look at.

Value is always abroad.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Again.
Spout your shite elsewhere and save me having to put you on ignore, there’s a good lad.

 

[robbiez666]

He's got a mortgage though so he didn't have to blow a £50m+ hole in the budget.

Yes, but that's a huge commitment for him. Monthly payments aside that will entail having to keep some collateral back, just in case. Given there will have at most limited attendances next season, that's a huge loss of money every week he has to stump up the money to cover.

 

[robbiez666]

But as we've said many times before, few if any, fees are paid in one lump sum.
All our costs have to be calculated over a timescale of 2-3 years, which includes at least one PL season payment, plus 2 further seasons of parachute payments.
Plus, I presume that most sensible clubs, of which we are certainly one, will have clauses in contracts to cover relegation from the PL

You're correct. Next season we'll still be paying off a significant percentage of the £60 million we spent on players.

 

[The Crab]

If Lundstram cannot get a new contract, despite the current wage expenditure being really low, why is there an assumption that more money will be available next season?

Just guessing but possibly because there is a gap between what Lunnys agent thinks he's worth and what CW is willing to put on the table.

More likely that the money will be there if he identifies a player that will justify the expense.

 

[robbiez666]

It's also worth bearing in mind that next season;s squad is currently:

Foderingham, Verrips, Moore,
Stevens, JOC, Egan, Jags?, Bash, Baldock, J Robsinson
Fleck, L Freeman, Berge, Norwood, Lunny? Osborne
Sharp, McGoldrick, McBurnie, Mousse, Robinson

I make that 21. I've probably missed someone, but assuming 3 or 4 of those leave, then that's 6/7 (at least) we'll need to bring in.

I suspect we'll be making very ample use of the loan market in that.

 

[CentralQuay]

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Again.
Spout your shite elsewhere and save me having to put you on ignore, there’s a good lad.

It has always been cheaper to buy players from abroad, because the money circulating in our game is so much greater than that in Spain/France/Germay/Italy/Holland etc. Largely because it is spread out much more fairly.

Football clubs get themselves into financial difficulty so often in our football pyramid because the rewards/incentives of dining at the top table, the PL, are so high, especially at PL level.

Maguire/Van Dijk costing around £80 million is a perfect example of this, how many sides in France, outside of PSG, could demand the fees that both Leicester and Southampton did for those players? Especially given how Maguire was nothing special at the time of his transfer, Van Dijk was clearly levels above.
Benrahma signed for Brentford for around about £3 million, from Nice, a club in the top flight in France. Now, Brentford are looking at £30 million+ should they sell him to a PL club, even more should they get promotion themselves.


To put it even more simply, the foreign market is obviously far larger than the English/British market, so prices are less because of the increased supply over demand. Especially with the Home grown rules when picking squads.

 

[OrderOfStGeorge]

berge cost 22m on his own and we spent over 50m this season alone unheard of for us and I can see us pushing on now i dont think Chris Wilder would stand for anything less.

 

[Champagneblade]

The good thing is that Chris has brought players in at a good age that they can grow with the club.

Unless injury hits, is there any rush to replace George and Enda at wing back? Same with the three centre backs.

Not long ago it was touted Arsenal looking at 20m for Fleck. Of course if this happened then it's fortunate their is a better player we could pick up for less from S6.

Berge is now settling in and Norwood has just signed a new deal and has a pretty unique passing range. Osborn has show he has quality to challenge. Maybe we end up cashing in on Lunny if his contract situation rumbles on but we are heavily linked with Swift, who to be fair, a year ago had a better pedigree than Lundstram, who was essentially a Championship back up.

As well as him, you have Robinson and Freeman who could attract interest. All monies could be used to add another forward into the mix.

Billy will be 35 next year so we have to be realistic. He can have a contract until he can kick a ball no more and then transition to the coaching staff, maybe with the younger players. Maybe getting someone like Emmanuel Dennis from Club Brugge or Jonathan David from Gent with the main part of the budget.

I'm curious what Chris currently thinks of Mousset. Has it been a season of promise with more to come or a sign of inconsistency and fitness issues? I see McBurnie and McGoldrick continuing to feature heavily next season and I don't think we have seen enough of Zivkovic to suggest he's going to feature heavily in next seasons plans.

 

[BanderSerge]

McBurnie is on £20k a week thanks to the court ruling being based on 150% of his wage.

Think we must give out decent signing bonuses to keep the wages low.

The first team squad also share a £10m bonus for stopping up.

 

[Houston_Blade]

It has always been cheaper to buy players from abroad, because the money circulating in our game is so much greater than that in Spain/France/Germay/Italy/Holland etc. Largely because it is spread out much more fairly.

Football clubs get themselves into financial difficulty so often in our football pyramid because the rewards/incentives of dining at the top table, the PL, are so high, especially at PL level.

Maguire/Van Dijk costing around £80 million is a perfect example of this, how many sides in France, outside of PSG, could demand the fees that both Leicester and Southampton did for those players? Especially given how Maguire was nothing special at the time of his transfer, Van Dijk was clearly levels above.
Benrahma signed for Brentford for around about £3 million, from Nice, a club in the top flight in France. Now, Brentford are looking at £30 million+ should they sell him to a PL club, even more should they get promotion themselves.


To put it even more simply, the foreign market is obviously far larger than the English/British market, so prices are less because of the increased supply over demand. Especially with the Home grown rules when picking squads.

The ‘pointing out the obvious award’ for 2020 goes to you

 

[CoatesyBlade]

And CentralQuay in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Grizzly blade]

Whatever it is, I don’t think finishing higher than expected will have much impact on Wilders transfer budget.
Bonus’s will eat into that money, and the obvious impact of Covid on the club to the tune of around £20-30m IMHO is hugely significant. I would expect that the bonus of finishing higher will do nothing but reduce the effects of Covid n the club. There may also be effects of the asset purchases, and the plans to upgrade facilities, though these could of course been covered through mortgages.

Saying that, a higher pkacebe a huge benefit when competing with Brighton/Watford/Palace and the like next season, but only because they too will have similar issues with lost revenue.
We may sell one or two, look to cash in if Wilder has a plan lined up to replace, we may get a bit in if Bournemouth sell Brooks and Ramsdale.
But we spent a wedge on Berge, and I suspect that may have been a large portion of the planned budget BEFORE the Covid intervention.
So in all, I will confidently say we will spend significantly less than last summer. If it’s as much as half again I will be amazed.
Concerning, because I fear a few players will need upgrading to keep with the plan of constant improvement as many of these lads have shown that unless they are at their very best we don’t compete.
I’m less concerned about the back line, but certainly the creative aspect needs work, and up front we lack real individual threat.

We need Wilder and his team to pull some gems out of the bag again!!

 

[Upton_Blade]

McBurnie is on £20k a week thanks to the court ruling being based on 150% of his wage.

Think we must give out decent signing bonuses to keep the wages low.

McBurnie will be on far more than £20k a week but that will be what's on his pay slip for tax purposes and things like court fines.

The rest will be made up of image rights etc probably paid to a limited company.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Whatever it is, I don’t think finishing higher than expected will have much impact on Wilders transfer budget.
Bonus’s will eat into that money, and the obvious impact of Covid on the club to the tune of around £20-30m IMHO is hugely significant. I would expect that the bonus of finishing higher will do nothing but reduce the effects of Covid n the club. There may also be effects of the asset purchases, and the plans to upgrade facilities, though these could of course been covered through mortgages.

Saying that, a higher pkacebe a huge benefit when competing with Brighton/Watford/Palace and the like next season, but only because they too will have similar issues with lost revenue.
We may sell one or two, look to cash in if Wilder has a plan lined up to replace, we may get a bit in if Bournemouth sell Brooks and Ramsdale.
But we spent a wedge on Berge, and I suspect that may have been a large portion of the planned budget BEFORE the Covid intervention.
So in all, I will confidently say we will spend significantly less than last summer. If it’s as much as half again I will be amazed.
Concerning, because I fear a few players will need upgrading to keep with the plan of constant improvement as many of these lads have shown that unless they are at their very best we don’t compete.
I’m less concerned about the back line, but certainly the creative aspect needs work, and up front we lack real individual threat.

We need Wilder and his team to pull some gems out of the bag again!!

I think our final league position will be a huge bonus on what our projected finances were at the start of the season. Only cos I imagine they would have planned for a worst case scenario. The question is did the forecast change that dramatically in January before the purchase of Berge and then Covid hitting.

 

[BanderSerge]

Whatever it is, I don’t think finishing higher than expected will have much impact on Wilders transfer budget.
Bonus’s will eat into that money, and the obvious impact of Covid on the club to the tune of around £20-30m IMHO is hugely significant. I would expect that the bonus of finishing higher will do nothing but reduce the effects of Covid n the club. There may also be effects of the asset purchases, and the plans to upgrade facilities, though these could of course been covered through mortgages.

Saying that, a higher pkacebe a huge benefit when competing with Brighton/Watford/Palace and the like next season, but only because they too will have similar issues with lost revenue.
We may sell one or two, look to cash in if Wilder has a plan lined up to replace, we may get a bit in if Bournemouth sell Brooks and Ramsdale.
But we spent a wedge on Berge, and I suspect that may have been a large portion of the planned budget BEFORE the Covid intervention.
So in all, I will confidently say we will spend significantly less than last summer. If it’s as much as half again I will be amazed.
Concerning, because I fear a few players will need upgrading to keep with the plan of constant improvement as many of these lads have shown that unless they are at their very best we don’t compete.
I’m less concerned about the back line, but certainly the creative aspect needs work, and up front we lack real individual threat.

We need Wilder and his team to pull some gems out of the bag again!!

We will have budgeted for 17th - £105m. We can’t finish lower than 10th - £120m? We could finish 7th - £127m? If we do finish 7th and Man U/Chelsea win the cup, we then have Europa league money as well. The prince remortgaged the £50m for McCabe at £10m a season over five years, so providing we keep CWAK happy, what’s to whittle about?

 

[Grizzly blade]

I think our final league position will be a huge bonus on what our projected finances were at the start of the season. Only cos I imagine they would have planned for a worst case scenario. The question is did the forecast change that dramatically in January before the purchase of Berge and then Covid hitting.

It’s hard to judge, yes the increase prize money may be an unexpected bonus but that may be why we jumped and got Berge in?
if we hoped to just stay up then through finishing higher we could be £15-20m better off. But Covid alone will swallow that and much more when loss of match day revenue plus tv money refund is added up.

I’m not being downhearted at all, and the market value may of course be better given every club is in the same boat, but I just suspect we may be competing with a lot more clubs this summer compared to last, and finding value and competing with other premier league sides in terms of wages etc will make this window extremely hard for us to find improvements to what we have.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

We will have budgeted for 17th - £105m. We can’t finish lower than 10th - £120m? We could finish 7th - £127m? If we do finish 7th and Man U/Chelsea win the cup, we then have Europa league money as well. The prince remortgaged the £50m for McCabe at £10m a season over five years, so providing we keep CWAK happy, what’s to whittle about?

We may well have budgeted for 20th. That would’ve been the smart move.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

It’s hard to judge, yes the increase prize money may be an unexpected bonus but that may be why we jumped and got Berge in?
if we hoped to just stay up then through finishing higher we could be £15-20m better off. But Covid alone will swallow that and much more when loss of match day revenue plus tv money refund is added up.

I’m not being downhearted at all, and the market value may of course be better given every club is in the same boat, but I just suspect we may be competing with a lot more clubs this summer compared to last, and finding value and competing with other premier league sides in terms of wages etc will make this window extremely hard for us to find improvements to what we have.

It’s a tough one to call Grizzly. I guess all we can do is wait and see what we bring in.
Personally I’m excited about our potential new signings... maybe that’s just cos I’ve been spoilt lately??

 

[Grizzly blade]

We will have budgeted for 17th - £105m. We can’t finish lower than 10th - £120m? We could finish 7th - £127m? If we do finish 7th and Man U/Chelsea win the cup, we then have Europa league money as well. The prince remortgaged the £50m for McCabe at £10m a season over five years, so providing we keep CWAK happy, what’s to whittle about?

Nothing. Why discuss it at all?
Though given the headline title on this “discussion forum” is the “budget 20/21“ I would say we are here speculating and reasoning what we can expect in the summer, and what that might mean for next season.
To answer your other points.
I’m sure the club is doing everything to keep CWAK happy.
And yes, everyone knows the prize money is higher. But that will be in excess to the increase we have already spent.
So in simple terms we were expecting a minimum amount and set our budget accordingly For the year. We bought players, spending it in a way that the payments out would be covered by future premier league money in (at worst parachute payments)!
So on that front, every extra year we stay in the premier allows us to extend what we are doing. So it’s not like we can spend all our budget every year, we have spent big for us last season with a view to that being paid over three years.
We achieved the main objective in staying here for next season. We need to progress but can at best only add one or two if we pay fees similar to last season.
Example.
Year 1- 10 players in paid over three year period.
year 2- still paying for 10 players from last year, plus want more. So buy say 5...means we are now paying for 15 players.
Year 3(if we stay up) we are paying for 15 players...want more...you get the picture!

what I’m trying to say is that nearly all clubs go up and spend the most in their first year, then much less subsequently. We will be exactly the same unless there is some intervention through further investors.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

McBurnie is on £20k a week thanks to the court ruling being based on 150% of his wage.

Think we must give out decent signing bonuses to keep the wages low.

Plus.performance bonuses?

 

[AWetFlannel]

I keep saying it ! if we dont add quality and pace this window next season will be a struggle.
Wilder said himself stand still and we go backwoods.
2nd season syndrome looms large we have to strengthen.

When will Wilder understand that we need pace to be successful?

1st season - Lavery and Sharp
2nd season - Clarke and Donaldson
3rd season - Sharp and McGoldrick
4th season - McBurnie and McGoldrick

I bet if we won the Champions League people would say, 'that's all well and good, but if we don't add some pace and quality next season we are DEFINITELY going to struggle'. When will the myth end?

I also think it's disrespectful to assume a team of players who have finished top half will struggle next season, as if what they've achieved this season is some sort of fluke.

 

[ChezVegasBlade]

I reckon on a budget of around £25 Mill plus whatever CW gets from player sales with up to five players possibly going. Bash and Lunny (last year of contracts), Frreman, Robinson (outgrown?) and Mousset (attitude?). Could be a very interesting window.

 

[BanderSerge]

Nothing. Why discuss it at all?
Though given the headline title on this “discussion forum” is the “budget 20/21“ I would say we are here speculating and reasoning what we can expect in the summer, and what that might mean for next season.
To answer your other points.
I’m sure the club is doing everything to keep CWAK happy.
And yes, everyone knows the prize money is higher. But that will be in excess to the increase we have already spent.
So in simple terms we were expecting a minimum amount and set our budget accordingly For the year. We bought players, spending it in a way that the payments out would be covered by future premier league money in (at worst parachute payments)!
So on that front, every extra year we stay in the premier allows us to extend what we are doing. So it’s not like we can spend all our budget every year, we have spent big for us last season with a view to that being paid over three years.
We achieved the main objective in staying here for next season. We need to progress but can at best only add one or two if we pay fees similar to last season.
Example.
Year 1- 10 players in paid over three year period.
year 2- still paying for 10 players from last year, plus want more. So buy say 5...means we are now paying for 15 players.
Year 3(if we stay up) we are paying for 15 players...want more...you get the picture!

what I’m trying to say is that nearly all clubs go up and spend the most in their first year, then much less subsequently. We will be exactly the same unless there is some intervention through further investors.

We currently have the best defence bar Liverpool? Yet people are talking of spending a large chunk of our budget there? Bogle, Lewis, Robinson. The midfield is well covered. Yet £14m for Eze keeps getting bandied about. The forwards and keeper are the problem. So surely that’s where we look to spend the serious money? if the defence and midfield ain’t broke, why look to fix it? If the roof on your house is leaking, you don’t buy a new door first, do you? Get the forwards and keeper sorted, then pad out the rest of the squad with the loose change.

 

[axel smeets]

I read a thread like this, and think thank fuck our fans don’t actually have anything to do with running the club.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

The prince remortgaged the £50m for McCabe at £10m a season over five years, so providing we keep CWAK happy, what’s to whittle about?

How do you know that?

 

[finlaytheblade]

When will Wilder understand that we need pace to be successful?

1st season - Lavery and Sharp
2nd season - Clarke and Donaldson
3rd season - Sharp and McGoldrick
4th season - McBurnie and McGoldrick

I bet if we won the Champions League people would say, 'that's all well and good, but if we don't add some pace and quality next season we are DEFINITELY going to struggle'. When will the myth end?

I also think it's disrespectful to assume a team of players who have finished top half will struggle next season, as if what they've achieved this season is some sort of fluke.

Take your point but pace does give us another string to our bow.
Leicester are a good example of what pace adds to your armory.
Weve done great ! But when under cosh pace on the break gives teams something to think about .We try to hit on the break ,pace would make us more dangerous.
City are being caught out with pace on the break repeatedly at the moment.

 

[CoatesyBlade]

Take your point but pace does give us another string to our bow.
Leicester are a good example of what pace adds to your armory.
Weve done great ! But when under cosh pace on the break gives teams something to think about .We try to hit on the break ,pace would make us more dangerous.
City are being caught out with pace on the break repeatedly at the moment.

Mousset is rapid and Zivkovic is the fastest player I’ve ever seen!