Baxter - Tests positive for banned substance

[William Henry Foulkes]

Contractually there might be a clear clause allowing dismissal if guilty. Otherwise it's muddy and expensive waters.

Does anyone know what the conventions are here?

1. Do professional footballers' contracts have theses no-illegal-drugs clauses?
2. If they don't and the player is guilty what are the precedents?

 

[Mustela Putorius Furo]

Agreed. But whether this should be true is different from whether it is true. Kids copy public figures eg sportsmen and women. That's just the way it is.

They also copy what their Dads, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters, Mothers do.... that's also the way it is. Hence the use of the word "all" in my initial comment about who are role models. A footballer isn't a role model because he's a footballer, but because he's an adult.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

Jose has taken a pill. Unprofessional certainly, irresponsible definitely but in no way shape or form comparable to Evans

I utterly agree with you, with the proviso that taking banned substances is a clear breach of footballing rules, directly affecting his role.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Unfortunately kids look up to these people, I don't even think it's a case of copying what they do but the fact that they are put on a pedestal by some is a worry given the distinct lack of a brain cell in a number of them. They don't deserve to be in a position where this can happen if they are not able to act in a professional manner for around 20% of their whole life.

Of course it's not right for anyone to carry out these crimes but are kids likely to buy a "British Gas" polo shirt and have their favourite plumbers name on the back?!

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I utterly agree with you, with the proviso that taking banned substances is a clear breach of footballing rules, directly affecting his role.

But he didn't take it in order to be performance enhancing.
Probably an unpopular position on here but I'm with that recreational drugs should be treated entirely differently because it's actually a different problem.

 

[sitwell]

I hope this whole issue makes Jose have a good look at himself ,whether he has taken them or not. He is letting such a great opportunity he has been given in life to go down the pan at an alarming rate.

 

[Davie Blade]

Ched should have been sacked because he was a convicted rapist and had given evidence that he had a misogynistice attitude to women.
Jose has taken a pill. Unprofessional certainly, irresponsible definitely but in no way shape or form comparable to Evans.

Taking of comparisons
Shouldn't we actually then wait until we hear Baxter's evidence and see if there is a 'conviction'?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

But he didn't take it in order to be performance enhancing.
Probably an unpopular position on here but I'm with that recreational drugs should be treated entirely differently because it's actually a different problem.

I think the sporting bodies should take a different view of it, (since it isn't performance enhancing) but i don't see why the clubs should.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Taking of comparisons
Shouldn't we actually then wait until we hear Baxter's evidence and see if there is a 'conviction'?

Not if you are comparing him to Evans, there will be no comparable conviction. It's a complete none starter.

 

[Ballinpigpubs13]

Allegedly.

This post could turn out to mean:

Is there any wonder we can't get promoted when players are doing shit like this?

or

Is there any wonder we can't get promoted when players are not doing shit like this?

depending on whether he's done it.

Or maybe more accurately depending on whether he's found to have done it - which is a different thing, either way (false positives or false negative).

Well done.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

I think the sporting bodies should take a different view of it, (since it isn't performance enhancing) but i don't see why the clubs should.

I think there has to be a certain amount of pragmatism as you would with any employee. I don't see this taking a pill as stepping past the point of no return.
If he has a more serious problem then maybe, but then we also have a duty of care to help him even if we sack him.

 

[More Bladier than thou]

he got caught when he was an apprentice aswell. we shouldnt be paying him whilst hes made himself unavailable for selection.he should be sacked when the b sample comes back positive. A samples dont lie so iam not sure why hes saying hes innocent. Fed up of little wankers bringing our clubs name into disrepute.Get rid nigel

 

[Esablade]

The issue for United will be that he's contracted until June 2016 I believe.
We paid £350-£500k for Baxter according to reports...if found guilty, put the lad up for sale (someone will buy him) or sack him and nip this in the bud early.

It's not the same but we should learn lesson's from the Ched debacle.

 

[Davie Blade]

Not if you are comparing him to Evans, there will be no comparable conviction. It's a complete none starter.

I'm talking about waiting to hear the evidence and 'conviction'.
The word ''conviction'' was put in inverted commas for a reason
as in see what the trial/hearing process decides..


Nothing to do with comparable sentences.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

They also copy what their Dads, Uncles, Brothers, Sisters, Mothers do.... that's also the way it is. Hence the use of the word "all" in my initial comment about who are role models. A footballer isn't a role model because he's a footballer, but because he's an adult.

So a footballer is a role model.

And given their profile they are role models to far more people than relatives or other adults in the lives specific individuals.

 

[Woodwardfan]

" Traces of a banned substance" which the player denies. That's where it is.

Why the F.A. times it's findings when it did for Livermore and Baxter I would not know but it certainly was a timing with an impact on both clubs.

SUFC seem to be screwed on timings time and again in important seasons - Ched, West Ham, Baxter, Windass.

So much speculation yet so little information.

 

[Bladebri]

We need to hear what Baxter has to say on the matter. Most people who take drugs have a underlying problem, these problems need addressing by the club. People do stupid things for a reason I'm sure he has his.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

he got caught when he was an apprentice aswell.

As well as what? He's not guilty of anything.

we shouldnt be paying him whilst hes made himself unavailable for selection.

Innocent till proven guilty. The contract is he's suspended pending further investigation.

A samples dont lie

Yes they do, albeit infrequently, which is why there are B samples.

iam not sure why hes saying hes innocent.

Maybe a drink was spiked, or many other reasons he might actually be innocent.

get rid

Regardless?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

We need to hear what Baxter has to say on the matter. Most people who take drugs have a underlying problem, these problems need addressing by the club. People do stupid things for a reason I'm sure he has his.

There are plenty of drug users that smash a load of coke/pills at the weekend and don't touch anything else in the week.

 

[oaklandrdblade]

" Traces of a banned substance" which the player denies. That's where it is.

Why the F.A. times it's findings when it did for Livermore and Baxter I would not know but it certainly was a timing with an impact on both clubs.

SUFC seem to be screwed on timings time and again in important seasons - Ched, West Ham, Baxter, Windass.

So much speculation yet so little information.

Surely the timing of the FA announcements was down to the timing of the tests, so judging by the fact Baxter seems to have failed before the first leg they could have announced it at much worse a time for us. I don't think the FA have anything to do with the testing do they? Isn't it carried out by an independent body?
I did think they had a policy of not announcing names when players failed 'recreational' drug tests, and it seems it was us who announced it after all the speculation , not sure why they named Livermore.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

We need to hear what Baxter has to say on the matter. Most people who take drugs have a underlying problem, these problems need addressing by the club. People do stupid things for a reason I'm sure he has his.

He's not admitting taking illegal drugs.

Millions of people take illegal drugs. They don't all have underlying problems. If it's just a mainstream recreational drug then I can't see it's that big an issue for him.

That said, if you know smoking a joint is going to jeopardise your career and you do it anyway then that's different. There's something self-destructive going on there.

But he's not guilty of anything yet.

 

[JJ Sefton]

 

[Bladebri]

And that

He's not admitting taking illegal drugs.

Millions of people take illegal drugs. They don't all have underlying problems. If it's just a mainstream recreational drug then I can't see it's that big an issue for him.

That said, if you know smoking a joint is going to jeopardise your career and you do it anyway then that's different. There's something self-destructive going on there.

But he's not guilty of anything yet.

not saying he took anything, just saying if he did the club need to look into why.

 

[UnitedBlade]

We need to hear what Baxter has to say on the matter. Most people who take drugs have a underlying problem, these problems need addressing by the club. People do stupid things for a reason I'm sure he has his.

Jermaine Jenas said on Match of the Day that Livermore had had many problems this year and that he hoped Hull (and implicitly others) would help him.

However, the FA couldn't be clearer on the disciplinary code - The player is totally responsible at all times for what is in his body - ignorance is no excuse. It's one of their tag lines explaining all the anti-doping stuff.

The FA, FL, PFA and the club may well help rehabilitate someone but this is after a strict testing and sanctions programme.

I personally thought Paddy was unlucky if you believe he bought something over the counter for a cough (I do by the way) but he got 9 months !

I assume Baxter will claim "spiking" but unless he went to the police or informed the club about his concerns at the time, no one will believe that without some evidence.

Given Clough is a renowned disciplinarian it will be very interesting to see his stance on this. I suspect he won't pick him again - that's up to the manager and club.

 

[Roygbiv]

We need to hear what Baxter has to say on the matter. Most people who take drugs have a underlying problem, these problems need addressing by the club. People do stupid things for a reason I'm sure he has his.

Alcohol is a drug too but I wouldn't say everyone who has a drink at the match has an underlying problem. Unless Jose is an addict then it is likely just to be a case of a young man doing what millions of other young men do at a weekend. Obviously the fact he is an athlete differs to other people but there's nothing to point to the idea that he has a problem

 

[HillmortonBlade]

But he didn't take it in order to be performance enhancing.
Probably an unpopular position on here but I'm with that recreational drugs should be treated entirely differently because it's actually a different problem.

Can't disagree with you FB, but the rules are there and list the banned substances, performance enhancing or not, it's all part of what they sign up to as part of the rules of competition. And I believe that if they are recreational rather than performance enhancing the ban (if he is guilty) is substantially lower. Whether the rules need changing? Maybe, but can't see it happening in this day and age.

 

[Bladebri]

Jermaine Jenas said on Match of the Day that Livermore had had many problems this year and that he hoped Hull (and implicitly others) would help him.

However, the FA couldn't be clearer on the disciplinary code - The player is totally responsible at all times for what is in his body - ignorance is no excuse. It's one of their tag lines explaining all the anti-doping stuff.

The FA, FL, PFA and the club may well help rehabilitate someone but this is after a strict testing and sanctions programme.

I personally thought Paddy was unlucky if you believe he bought something over the counter for a cough (I do by the way) but he got 9 months !

I assume Baxter will claim "spiking" but unless he went to the police or informed the club about his concerns at the time, no one will believe that without some evidence.

Given Clough is a renowned disciplinarian it will be very interesting to see his stance on this. I suspect he won't pick him again - that's up to the manager and club.

I totally agree whoever takes any kind of drug has to take 100% responsibility for their actions and face the consequences, counciling has to be a part of that.

 

[More Bladier than thou]

As well as what? He's not guilty of anything.



Innocent till proven guilty. The contract is he's suspended pending further investigation.



Yes they do, albeit infrequently, which is why there are B samples.



Maybe a drink was spiked, or many other reasons he might actually be innocent.



Regardless?

we will see in the coming days,we should get rid IF hes guilty.its not looking good.Lots of people saying basham has failed a test too....

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I know a guy who works in a bar in Barnsley. He says Baxter once came up to him and asked him to sort him out with some gear.

 

[Bladebri]

Alcohol is a drug too but I wouldn't say everyone who has a drink at the match has an underlying problem. Unless Jose is an addict then it is likely just to be a case of a young man doing what millions of other young men do at a weekend. Obviously the fact he is an athlete differs to other people but there's nothing to point to the idea that he has a problem

I have never taken drugs, I am well passed the age of trying it for a laugh, so that just leaves would I take them if I was going through a crisis, I can't answer that but I bet a lot of people would have answered yes. Yes alcohol is a drug and yes people do drink to forget or to make them fell better, we all have way of making situations in our lives better, some are stronger than others, some need a little help.