Are we next??

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Amazing stuff Dunc.

I agree with your philosophy about what is important but you have to accept that people are very pissed off about SUFC at the moment, spend a bit of time saying so on here because they love football etc and yet can still have the same outlook on life as you. I just think you see things from a different planet where SUFC are concerned.

I think Speed is doing as well as could be expected in near impossible circumstances. I'm not sure that getting goals out of midfield and strikeforce quite equates to striking an unlikely deal but that's my take on things. Hard work won't harm us of course but that is the bare minimum aint it? Good teams need skill and ability - we have Leon Britton and that is that really. After that as you say we are reliant on Speedo to coax 52 ish points out of em - I think he'll really struggle.
 

I agree with your philosophy about what is important but you have to accept that people are very pissed off about SUFC at the moment, spend a bit of time saying so on here because they love football etc and yet can still have the same outlook on life as you. I just think you see things from a different planet where SUFC are concerned.

The onl problem with your analysis is that these people are pissed off with Speed, the squad, McCabe, player sales, and before that with the football, Blackwell, Our Turry and McCabe, and player sales and before that with Robson, the football and McCabe and West Ham, and before that with Warnock, and Monty and transfers in, McCabe and the PL, and so on and so on.

What they are really pissed off about is that the club is not run exactly as they would see fit. Who is out of touch with reality now?

I think Speed is doing as well as could be expected in near impossible circumstances.

Like I say, if Speed thinks its impossible, then he is in the wrong job. I think he will be relishing the task ahead. He's a winner and thats what winners do.

After that as you say we are reliant on Speedo to coax 52 ish points out of em - I think he'll really struggle.

...and I think he wont. Agree to disagree I think. Lets see where we are at Christmas...
 
you have to accept that people are very pissed off about SUFC at the moment,

You seem to believe that everyone else thinks the way you do Mic.

For the record, I am currently disappointed with the way the season has gone so far but I am certainly not "very pissed off about SUFC". If we were in a Liverpool situation then I probably would be, but for the moment I remain eternally hopeful that better times lie ahead for SUFC.

However, if the entire world of league football imploded, I'm sure we'd all find something else to enthuse or worry about once the dust had settled.

Let's try to keep a sense of proportion.
 
You seem to believe that everyone else thinks the way you do Mic.

For the record, I am currently disappointed with the way the season has gone so far but I am certainly not "very pissed off about SUFC". If we were in a Liverpool situation then I probably would be, but for the moment I remain eternally hopeful that better times lie ahead for SUFC.

However, if the entire world of league football imploded, I'm sure we'd all find something else to enthuse or worry about once the dust had settled.

Let's try to keep a sense of proportion.

Nice selective quoting. Nice of you to ignore the next part of my sentence which says I agree with Duncs that ultimately the well being of SUFC is pretty meaningless compared with other things. Well done Broomhill.
 
Nice selective quoting. Nice of you to ignore the next part of my sentence which says I agree with Duncs that ultimately the well being of SUFC is pretty meaningless compared with other things. Well done Broomhill.

You said "people are very pissed off about SUFC"

I said I'm not.

What's the problem?
 
Nice selective quoting. Nice of you to ignore the next part of my sentence which says I agree with Duncs that ultimately the well being of SUFC is pretty meaningless compared with other things. Well done Broomhill.

It cant be that meaningless to you mic. You spend enough time painting the former manager and club hierarchy as real life villains. Even the most loathed personalities in football should be ranked no higher than a panto-villain. The way you and the other walking depressed refer to them, its as if we're talking antagonists of biblical proportions.
 
Can I have a go?

"- which teams in the division do you think are significantly worse than us? "

I think it's just about as even as it's ever been. Most teams are much of a muchness and a bit of form / momentum is all it takes to separate them. So not many much worse, but not actually that many much better.

"- from watching us this season, what evidence do you see that we will get better? "

Not a lot. But it doesn't always take much for things to start rolling. See my comment below.

"- in our current squad, which players are the one's that make up this 'plenty good enough' comment you made? "

Very few of the first team don't look good enough. Evans, France, Taylor aren't good enough. The rest are decent championship players. It's the blend that is wrong overall.


Don't take my points as an argument that everything is rosey. It clearly isn't. But a creative midfielder and a decent striker (or Boggy taking the reigns) is all it takes. What's alarming is without it, we'll struggle to score and will be in trouble. What's more, the ongoing lack of investment is starting to catch up, with some ageing players starting to go past their peak. It's now the failue of McCabe's policies are being exposed and I just hope he feels enough responsibiulity to do "something" about it.

of course you can alco.

to be honest your assessment looks pretty bleak. You are unable to name any teams that are worse than us and then you point out the big flaws we have. For these reasons I think that if we are not lucky then we could be what dave says 'the next big club to hit the 3rd tier'.

I've only included the players that are actually ours (all the loanees are good enough IMO)

Simmo - Good Enough
Morgan - Good Enough
Ward - Good Enough
Britton - Good Enough
Yeates - Good Enough
Ward - Good Enough
Evans - Good Enough
Henderson - Good Enough
Montgomery - Good Enough
Williamson - Good Enough
Cresswell - Good Enough
Jordan - Good Enough

We've got plenty of players that are good enough. The problem is a lack of players that are a bit special.

I've highlighted the players that I diagree with, as i don't think they are good enough. On top of that we have in there 2 crocks. It smacks of desperation when you have to name players twice to make up a list.

By my reckonicking we are 4 players away from having a decent first team and have absolutely no strenght in depth. Even if we include poor players like Monty and Evans and long term injuries (i.e. your list) then we bartely have a good enough team, never mind a squad.

Nice try Highbury, but your post just highlights how much we are lacking.

Lets start on the basic premise that my views are as valid as yours. Believe me, if we are going to compare pathetic internet signatures I think you give me some stiff competition. For the record I do not 'get out of argument' but I refuse to continue when the other person is just here to dig themselves deeper into an entrenched position, or to stroke their own fur in front of an assembled audience. I am not here to 'educate' anyone.

In answer to your questions. The teams in this league are broadly of a similar standard. With the possible exception of QPR and Cardiff, there isn't more than a 5% difference between the rest. The results show this to be the case, with anyone really being able to beat anyone on their day. A run of a few results would be enough for us, or anyone around us to get well up the table. Only 7 points between play-offs and relegation zone, but then we have only played 8 out of 46 games, not 38. Looking at last seasons table, was there any massive difference between us in 8th and Bristol City, Derby, Boro, Coventry, Preston, Watford, Ipswich, Barnsley, and other teams who finished in the mid table below us? I dont think there was. Peterborough was the team we could all nail as being 'poor' after selling their goal scorers, but this season no team stands out as being particularly poor, despite what you seemingly try to prove. You talk of Portsmouth, Leicester, Bristol City as if they are just about to hit form and streak past us, but you are blind to the possibility that we may also find form ourselves.

What evidence do you see that we will get worse? We've changed the style, not massively, but enough, and for spells in games we've looked a decent side, and a battling side. We haven't had the luck in front of goal, but it really is hyping it up to claim that we are a nailed on cert for relegation. We have improved in a few positions from last year. I know they are loans (season long) but Jordon and Calve are both better than what we had after Walker had gone back. I dont think we have quite worked out a formation where Britton and Ertle are used to their best effect, but they are both improvements too. Despite the lack of goals Boggy gives us three strikers in the squad who scored 15 goals a piece in the Championship last season. Are they shit, or are they struggling for form? I prefer to believe the latter. They've done it before.

Players who are 'Plenty Good enough' for a mid table Championship side? Simmondsen, Jordon, Bartley, Nos, Morgs, Monty, Britton, Ertle, Calve, Quinn S., Cresswell, Henderson (when fit), Boggy, Yeates, Williamson (when fit), Ward. Dont think I've missed one. I have question marks against Kozzy, not what he once was, Evans who I think mentally, the longer it goes on, the less likely that it will come good for him, and Taylor who shows flashes of a decent player but is undone too easily. I am not rating the likes of Lowton, Slew, Chappell and James as they are for next season and beyond. Thats 16 players who would fit into any other mid-table side and a few who would fit into a side with aspirations of play-offs and better. When we get a formation that they can deliver their best, and most importantly a bit of confidence in them, I can easily see us being comfortable.

Its down to Speedo and the coaches to get it right, and get us going. If they can't, then we may find outselves with a battle on to stay in the division. We all know its a possibility but there is no point in fretting about it at this stage with more than 80% of games still to be played...

You seem to think that by putting in an exceptionally long answer you can get get away without actually answering the questions i put to you. I presume it is an attempt to bore me into submission, but I guess it beats the hysterical nature of your post afterwards.

getting back to my questions:

- You've failed to name any teams that are worse than us. Are you not worried that the fact that we can't score or create chances and defend like shcool boys means that we might end up at the bottom of these teams that are 'all around the same level'?

- Again you avoid the question and are unable to point me towards evidence that things will ge better. it very much focuses around having blind faith in Speed, despite the signs on the pitch showing we are in big trouble.

- at least you answered this question, but as with Highbury's list it is unconvincing. You list loan players, long term casualties and players who are simply not up to it (I've highlighted in bold). Even including all your players then we barely have a squad.
 
Despite the lack of goals Boggy gives us three strikers in the squad who scored 15 goals a piece in the Championship last season. Are they shit, or are they struggling for form? I prefer to believe the latter. They've done it before.

Apologies for just picking out this line but Creswell's played every game on the wing and scored 2 goals. Bogdanovich has only started twice and Henderson hasn't played at all. Shit or struggling for form? I'd suggest we look closer at the third option that our managers (plural) faith in Evans and ultra-negative tactics have prevented them scoring this season.
 
dp come off it mate. Like Bob says.....do you class the likes of Watford and Charlton etc. as big clubs?

All this oooh they're a big club bollocks is just that. You're as big and as good as where you are. This is the thing both United and Wednesday.....even Leeds for that matter, have to get out of our heads. We're not big clubs! Manchester United, Real Madrid, Arsenal, AC Milan etc. are big clubs. Everyone outside the European elite are a bunch of dreamers..........

Potential means nothing. League position, finances and falling ticket sales as a result of relegation MEAN EVERYTHING.

As for us, no I dont think we will go down. Can we? Yes, every possibility. We cant score and have a horribly unbalanced midfield. If you cant hit the back of the net you're certainly not going to move upwards thats for sure. So which way is left to go? :(

All things considered and having faith in Speedo, I think we'll be ok.

Ok the quote you are refering to is maybe a bit out but we have spent the last 20 years in the top 2 leagues i don't think that is a bad achievement. Forest, weeds, Norwich, Southampton, Blackpool and even Man City can not boast that. Just for the record Man Utd, Real Madrid etc are massive clubs
 
Ok the quote you are refering to is maybe a bit out but we have spent the last 20 years in the top 2 leagues i don't think that is a bad achievement. Forest, weeds, Norwich, Southampton, Blackpool and even Man City can not boast that. Just for the record Man Utd, Real Madrid etc are massive clubs

No its not that bad dp and other clubs have done far far worse and are much worse off than us, despite what the minority may want us to believe. But United aren't a "big" club....in the context that our fans believe we are. The same goes for the pigs and Leeds. The lot of us are a bunch of dreamers with deslusions of grandeur.

In terms of our fan base, stadium etc. then perhaps we are slightly bigger than the average club. Again, the same goes for our bitter rivals mentioned earlier.

Haha.....here we go. This is my favourite cliche. The difference between "big clubs" and "massive clubs" in the context of football. Words that essentially mean the same thing and by definition are pretty much based on interpretation.....yet in the context of football the terms are definitive. If you listen to the average football fan, Leeds are a big club and Real Madrid are a massive club. I'm not suggesting for a minute that Real Madrid arent bigger than Leeds. That argument is a no brainer. But where do these descriptions/definitions come from? :confused:

I'm not having a go at you individually dp so dont take it the wrong way, but I cant understand how some of the terminology and spin used by fans and pundits alike is taken seriously. Most of it is agenda driven garbage.
 
No its not that bad dp and other clubs have done far far worse and are much worse off than us, despite what the minority may want us to believe. But United aren't a "big" club....in the context that our fans believe we are. The same goes for the pigs and Leeds. The lot of us are a bunch of dreamers with deslusions of grandeur.

In terms of our fan base, stadium etc. then perhaps we are slightly bigger than the average club. Again, the same goes for our bitter rivals mentioned earlier.

Haha.....here we go. This is my favourite cliche. The difference between "big clubs" and "massive clubs" in the context of football. Words that essentially mean the same thing and by definition are pretty much based on interpretation.....yet in the context of football the terms are definitive. If you listen to the average football fan, Leeds are a big club and Real Madrid are a massive club. I'm not suggesting for a minute that Real Madrid arent bigger than Leeds. That argument is a no brainer. But where do these descriptions/definitions come from? :confused:

I'm not having a go at you individually dp so dont take it the wrong way, but I cant understand how some of the terminology and spin used by fans and pundits alike is taken seriously. Most of it is agenda driven garbage.

You keep refering to weeds??? They have spent a good few years in that 3rd tier have they not??? We shall just leave it as we are bigger than your average then.
 
Biggest or most massive club we may not be.

Bigger or more massive club than Weeds, Pigs etc we might or might not be.

But we are the best fucking club in the world, and even if by some chance we do get relegated we'll still be the best fucking club in the world
 
We shud be somewhere in the middle .................
between spend spend spend Man City an sell sell sell McWobblegob.
 

Think we've spent spent spent enough at Man City thanks.
 
Thought i'd ask this on the back of the "can we still challenge for promotion" post. I have to ask the question are we going to be the next big club to drop into the 3rd tier of the english league? Will we follow in the foot steps of Norwich, Southampton, Weeds and Forest clubs who have spent many years in the top 2 leagues but dropped down in recent years. One thing i do know we are not to big to go down.
no were not
 

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