Adkins - should he be sacked?

[Booker4]

It's been covered by lots of people, and was discussed at the fans forum the other night according to some who went. Clough and Brannigan did that deal.

UTB

Can you find me that mate somewhere (sorry to ask),;I've looked all through the questions and answers from the forum and never found that? I'm really pleased to hear that though because I did think the deal was doomed from the start, he's clearly not up to it and has failed almost everywhere.

 

[alcoblade]

The decision whether or not to sack Adkins should be taken on its own merits, not on those of previous sackings.

We've gone backwards under him. If you thin he should stay, what do you see that convinces you he will reverse that?

I think whoever is here they have to clear up the mess, which I blame the previous man for. The enormous squad at the end of last season was the least value squad since Robson was here, and the second worst in my 40 plus years of supporting them.

And the age old reality that constantly chopping and changing just doesn't work. For all the mess Clough made. I'd have given him more time too.

He's proved he can do it. Very few have done, or achieved anything like Adkins has.

UTB

 

[northsomersetblade]

Sunjihi was right about Cheds lawyer...but it's a no from me...he has to fuck up with his own players before he gets the blame. Having said that, if a cocksure Wilder rolled into town he would get my attention. All these potential mangers must all know that McCabe is the dead hand on the tiller though.

As to Nige being annoying, it seems to me that Nigel only seems like a rent a quote when we lose - I bet that if we are winning games next year we won't give a shit what he says. I think this was the case at Scunny and Southampton but not Reading.

 

[alcoblade]

Can you find me that mate somewhere (sorry to ask),;I've looked all through the questions and answers from the forum and never found that? I'm really pleased to hear that though because I did think the deal was doomed from the start, he's clearly not up to it and has failed almost everywhere.

It's definitely in the thread. There's another poster in here who has contacts in the club who's clarified it. And I've heard it from several sources I trust.

UTB

 

[LoughboroBlade]

It's definitely in the thread. There's another poster in here who has contacts in the club who's clarified it. And I've heard it from several sources I trust

I'm hoping this is the reality of it and we have heard suggestions to that end, but if so it would help Adkins's case if this is made clear at the end of the summer. It makes sense with Sammon still here not to do so – once that deal finishes, I don't see why they couldn't talk about it. You've already had a suggestion from McCabe that the technical board as it currently is "wouldn't have vetted the majority of signings made this season", so perhaps this will be made clear once the season finishes.

 

[Booker4]

It's definitely in the thread. There's another poster in here who has contacts in the club who's clarified it. And I've heard it from several sources I trust.

UTB

I'll take your word for it mate, but just looked again and can't find it. We all know that Clough was a fan though to be fair.

 

[wizadry]

I'll take your word for it mate, but just looked again and can't find it. We all know that Clough was a fan though to be fair.

I think it was the Bohemians post, sorry I can't tag from my wank phone.

 

[northsomersetblade]

Pretty much spot on for me.

He dropped a couple of clangers early on that haven't made his job any easier- McEverley as skipper being one.

I think he saw the problems from day one and had McEverley down as someone he could count on.

 

[Kenilworth]

I think it was the Bohemians post, sorry I can't tag from my wank phone.

Use the other one that you don't use for porn then, Wizzers

 

[Kenilworth]

If the Waffle Twat doesn't have us in the top two in December then he needs to go.

If that's the case then I predict that we will spend another 3 years in this division - so bad will the finances be and the prospect of the academy providing the substance and quality to fuel a successful promotion campaign is truely 'pie in the sky'
If we get any quality it will be sold to fuel the next batch of mediocrity.

Waffle Twat can only work with decent players. He won't have that luxury at this club.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Not for the January window. Nowadays due to the transfer windows, nowadays from January more and more clubs are preparing to sign players on pre-contracts ready for the summer so I prefer the new manager to be involved with the recommendations of who we should sign (six/seven months preparations is better than one or two if he comes in the summer).

I was told from a source that I trust a few weeks ago that more than a handful number of players have already agreed to sign for us (presumably most, if not all are on pre-contracts) so I assumed that Adkins was staying. Not long after that came Sunjihi's post which threw me. I came back to the trusted source telling him about Sunjihi's post. He shrugged his shoulders. I asked him if the players who are coming to us were the ones Adkins had recommended. He shrugged his shoulders again. Who is the "Technical board" McCabe was talking about when he was talking about the summer recruitment? Could one of the board be the incoming manager replacing Adkins? Maybe the incoming DoF(whatever) is involved?

More importantly did your contact say who we'd be letting go?

 

[Silent Blade]

More importantly did your contact say who we'd be letting go?

No

 

[hoylandblade]

Yes
I went to Coventry match & that match alone convinced me he,s got to go

 

[Blade56]

What's the point?

Based on the output from McCabes fan forum it sounds like he's depressed about going forward, blaming luck, licking his wounds and totally devoid of ambition and a plan A.

Sounded more interested in setting up a 'technical team' to stop his money being flitted away.

TBH we will be a smaller weaker team in a stronger pond next season. With Bolton, MK, Charlton, Bristol et al we will find it a struggle next season. And for the apologists and optimists expecting a mass clear out and loads of exciting signings your in for a disapointment. No ones gonna fund buying 6/7 new signings IMO if we do get rid of expensive deadwood. I assume from his comments McCabe will tell Adkins to use the kids and what he's got left plus Hammond.

Sigh, deep breath, wonders why I renewed. I'm so tired.

 

[BladeFisher]

Not for the January window. Nowadays due to the transfer windows, nowadays from January more and more clubs are preparing to sign players on pre-contracts ready for the summer so I prefer the new manager to be involved with the recommendations of who we should sign (six/seven months preparations is better than one or two if he comes in the summer).

I was told from a source that I trust a few weeks ago that more than a handful number of players have already agreed to sign for us (presumably most, if not all are on pre-contracts) so I assumed that Adkins was staying. Not long after that came Sunjihi's post which threw me. I came back to the trusted source telling him about Sunjihi's post. He shrugged his shoulders. I asked him if the players who are coming to us were the ones Adkins had recommended. He shrugged his shoulders again. Who is the "Technical board" McCabe was talking about when he was talking about the summer recruitment? Could one of the board be the incoming manager replacing Adkins? Maybe the incoming DoF(whatever) is involved?

In the fans forum clip I thought McCabe said who comprised the Technical Board.

 

[Silent Blade]

In the fans forum clip I thought McCabe said who comprised the Technical Board.

Who were they then?

 

[BladeFisher]

Who were they then?

I knew you ask that! I recall Adkins and the new Academy coach, may have been McCabe's son and someone else?

 

[Bladesman]

I just think it's incredibly difficult to judge his performance without knowing the full facts about what has been going on behind the scenes.

It would seem to me that:

Salmon was a done deal before he arrived
He signed the 20+ goals a season striker we'd been missing since Ched
We signed Woolford as a back-up for Murphy
Murphy is then sold
Our cover is either Che (who doesn't work there and K Wallace who gets injured)
He brings in Edgar who isn't perfect but an improvement
He probably assumed taking on a big squad who almost play-offed last season would require a fe tweaks but what he finds is a mess
There are too many players, too many injury-prone players, a drinking culture and a lot of players who don't care
He attempts to patch up all the holes but the money he's promised for the JTW is withdrawn
He brings in Hammond, a player he knows and trusts, to shore up the centre and try and sort things out behind the scenes. Then he discovers his legs have gone and it doesn't work on the pitch and there's no one else in the squad who can partner him in midfield
He brings in Baptiste who is a big improvement
He ships out a raft of problem players. None of whom are successful where they've gone
He simply doesn't have the players he needs to play the way he wants to. Finally finding a formation which kind of works with people playing out of position

He's seemingly spent the season trying to plug leaks with far to few corks.

This is why I believe he deserves next season. His interviews are appalling and he's underperformed as a manager this season, but we need to have some consistency as a club and he's got a great track record. Getting rid of us just continues the issues we've had for years. Let's see what he can do.

Nail on the head right there.

I just hope Adkins is given the chance to sort all this out but its going to hard for any manager with the board we have.

 

[Silent Blade]

I knew you ask that! I recall Adkins and the new Academy coach, may have been McCabe's son and someone else?

Lee Turnbull?

 

[The Bohemian]

I just think it's incredibly difficult to judge his performance without knowing the full facts about what has been going on behind the scenes.

It would seem to me that:

Salmon was a done deal before he arrived
He signed the 20+ goals a season striker we'd been missing since Ched
We signed Woolford as a back-up for Murphy
Murphy is then sold
Our cover is either Che (who doesn't work there and K Wallace who gets injured)
He brings in Edgar who isn't perfect but an improvement
He probably assumed taking on a big squad who almost play-offed last season would require a fe tweaks but what he finds is a mess
There are too many players, too many injury-prone players, a drinking culture and a lot of players who don't care
He attempts to patch up all the holes but the money he's promised for the JTW is withdrawn
He brings in Hammond, a player he knows and trusts, to shore up the centre and try and sort things out behind the scenes. Then he discovers his legs have gone and it doesn't work on the pitch and there's no one else in the squad who can partner him in midfield
He brings in Baptiste who is a big improvement
He ships out a raft of problem players. None of whom are successful where they've gone
He simply doesn't have the players he needs to play the way he wants to. Finally finding a formation which kind of works with people playing out of position

He's seemingly spent the season trying to plug leaks with far to few corks.

This is why I believe he deserves next season. His interviews are appalling and he's underperformed as a manager this season, but we need to have some consistency as a club and he's got a great track record. Getting rid of us just continues the issues we've had for years. Let's see what he can do.

You make a good case for sticking with Adkins, for the time being. I've added a few comments to your bullet points.


"I just think it's incredibly difficult to judge his performance without knowing the full facts about what has been going on behind the scenes.

It would seem to me that:

Salmon was a done deal before he arrived
He signed the 20+ goals a season striker we'd been missing since Ched (major credit for this, done in the face of very little enthusiasm from supporters)
We signed Woolford and Sharp as in readiness for the Murphy sale
Murphy is then sold
Our cover is either Che (who doesn't work there and K Wallace who gets injured)
He brings in Edgar who isn't perfect but an improvement
He probably assumed taking on a big squad who almost play-offed last season would require a fe tweaks but what he finds is a mess (His assumption was probably accurate but he failed to make the "tweaks" required prior to the start of the season or even by the JTW).
There are too many players, too many injury-prone players, a drinking culture (Really?) and a lot of players who don't care
He attempts to patch up all the holes but the money he's promised for the JTW is withdrawn (where is the evidence for this? Adkins said money was available)
He brings in Hammond, a player he knows and trusts (And offers him an option of an additional year), to shore up the centre and try and sort things out behind the scenes. Then he discovers his legs have gone and it doesn't work on the pitch and there's no one else in the squad who can partner him in midfield (The clue was in his age and lack of first team action - wrong player, wrong time and at great expense)
He brings in Baptiste who is a big improvement
He ships out a raft of problem players. None of whom are successful where they've gone (Scoogs has featured regularly for mighty Fleetwood)
He simply doesn't have the players he needs to play the way he wants to (But still showed frightening naivety in starting the season with 4-4-2 despite having no viable holding midfielder). Finally finding a formation which kind of works with people playing out of position (So true)

He's seemingly spent the season trying to plug leaks with far to few corks (He really should have known where the "leaks" were before he took the job and certainly by the time the season started).

This is why I believe he deserves next season. His interviews are appalling and he's underperformed as a manager this season, but we need to have some consistency as a club and he's got a great track record (Can't argue with this but how long can he live off his cv?). Getting rid of us just continues the issues we've had for years. Let's see what he can do (We have seen what he can do for a full season and it's been woefully below what we need for auto promo. Question is: how confident are we that he can turn things around and how long is he given?)."

 

[Booker4]

You make a good case for sticking with Adkins, for the time being. I've added a few comments to your bullet points.


"I just think it's incredibly difficult to judge his performance without knowing the full facts about what has been going on behind the scenes.

It would seem to me that:

Salmon was a done deal before he arrived
He signed the 20+ goals a season striker we'd been missing since Ched (major credit for this, done in the face of very little enthusiasm from supporters)
We signed Woolford and Sharp as in readiness for the Murphy sale
Murphy is then sold
Our cover is either Che (who doesn't work there and K Wallace who gets injured)
He brings in Edgar who isn't perfect but an improvement
He probably assumed taking on a big squad who almost play-offed last season would require a fe tweaks but what he finds is a mess (His assumption was probably accurate but he failed to make the "tweaks" required prior to the start of the season or even by the JTW).
There are too many players, too many injury-prone players, a drinking culture (Really?) and a lot of players who don't care
He attempts to patch up all the holes but the money he's promised for the JTW is withdrawn (where is the evidence for this? Adkins said money was available)
He brings in Hammond, a player he knows and trusts (And offers him an option of an additional year), to shore up the centre and try and sort things out behind the scenes. Then he discovers his legs have gone and it doesn't work on the pitch and there's no one else in the squad who can partner him in midfield (The clue was in his age and lack of first team action - wrong player, wrong time and at great expense)
He brings in Baptiste who is a big improvement
He ships out a raft of problem players. None of whom are successful where they've gone (Scoogs has featured regularly for mighty Fleetwood)
He simply doesn't have the players he needs to play the way he wants to (But still showed frightening naivety in starting the season with 4-4-2 despite having no viable holding midfielder). Finally finding a formation which kind of works with people playing out of position (So true)

He's seemingly spent the season trying to plug leaks with far to few corks (He really should have known where the "leaks" were before he took the job and certainly by the time the season started).

This is why I believe he deserves next season. His interviews are appalling and he's underperformed as a manager this season, but we need to have some consistency as a club and he's got a great track record (Can't argue with this but how long can he live off his cv?). Getting rid of us just continues the issues we've had for years. Let's see what he can do (We have seen what he can do for a full season and it's been woefully below what we need for auto promo. Question is: how confident are we that he can turn things around and how long is he given?)."

The big question for me is. Do we think that another manager could have done better given the same squad and limitations that Adkins was? Last season under Clough was very similar to this and Adkins has been without the creativity of Murphy. If we'd have got Murphy, like Clough had, then no doubt we'd still be in he play offs minimum. Clough left him with this average and bloated squad and it seems Conor Sammon too, just as a parting gift! Its the players who've underachieved not Adkins for me. Looking at previous success of Bristol City, I recall Steve Cotterill having the luxury of been able to bring in a raft of players having took over with about 4 months to go from he previous season so he knew what he wanted. Adkins is in a similar position and lets see who he can bring in.

 

[The Bohemian]

The big question for me is. Do we think that another manager could have done better given the same squad and limitations that Adkins was?

A big fat, yes.

Last season's squad wasn't too far short and would probably have made it had Clough sorted out a half decent replacement for Harry

Our non-existent scouting network, allied with Adkins' poor judgement has blown this season's opportunity of taking advantage of the weakest Div3 since we were relegated. If we'd signed Alfie Mawson, Sam Morsy and Adam Hammill (all available at the right time and well within our budget), along with Billy, we'd have plugged the gaps and be popping the corks by now.

Its the players who've underachieved not Adkins for me.

I never buy this argument. It's the manager's responsibility to sort the team out, including under-performing players.

Adkins is in a similar position and lets see who he can bring in.

If he persists with his reliance on catching old-uns on the way down, he and we are doomed. Billy is a notable exception and very clearly plays for the shirt.

 

[PeteBlade]

A big fat, yes.

Last season's squad wasn't too far short and would probably have made it had Clough sorted out a half decent replacement for Harry

Our non-existent scouting network, allied with Adkins' poor judgement has blown this season's opportunity of taking advantage of the weakest Div3 since we were relegated. If we'd signed Alfie Mawson, Sam Morsy and Adam Hammill (all available at the right time and well within our budget), along with Billy, we'd have plugged the gaps and be popping the corks by now.



I never buy this argument. It's the manager's responsibility to sort the team out, including under-performing players.



If he persists with his reliance on catching old-uns on the way down, he and we are doomed. Billy is a notable exception and very clearly plays for the shirt.

We were miles away under Clough, and were humbled in the play offs.

We scraped into the top 6 yet were closer in points to the bottom four than to the top 2!

Didn't we refuse to go for Morsey because of the fee involved? That's what's held us back this season.

Still, at least we now have a 'Technical Board' made up of non football types to help us in the future.

 

[Booker4]

A big fat, yes.

Last season's squad wasn't too far short and would probably have made it had Clough sorted out a half decent replacement for Harry

Our non-existent scouting network, allied with Adkins' poor judgement has blown this season's opportunity of taking advantage of the weakest Div3 since we were relegated. If we'd signed Alfie Mawson, Sam Morsy and Adam Hammill (all available at the right time and well within our budget), along with Billy, we'd have plugged the gaps and be popping the corks by now.



I never buy this argument. It's the manager's responsibility to sort the team out, including under-performing players.



If he persists with his reliance on catching old-uns on the way down, he and we are doomed. Billy is a notable exception and very clearly plays for the shirt.

Totally respect your views mate and when I'm feeling more critical I probably agree to a point. But, I remember last season under Clough and how dire it was, it was very similar to this, like losing to Crewe and Fleetwood spring to mind and getting tonked by Swindon. I don't agree that we were close under Clough last season. We were 20 points behind second place MK, 18 behind third placed Preston and 8 points behind Swindon who of course beat us in the play offs. Despite this season been woefully disappointing, we're only 5 points off last seasons final total of 71 points and of course we still have a game to go. Crucially Clough had Murphy, a player he never signed of course, but without doubt the best winger I've seen at the Lane for many a year. So all in all I would say the only criticism we can label at Adkins (based on comparing last seasons "achievement") is that Adkins didn't bring in the quality two or three that we needed and yes I agree that we should have signed the likes of Morsy, I have no defence for why that didn't happen. If he had signed Morsy, Mawson and Hamill, we probably would have been top two but we don't know who Adkins tried to sign that would have made a big difference, but couldn't get them over the line, He has said that he hasn't being able to bring in who he wanted at various times this season.

All in all I think he deserves another shot at it with his squad. Then if he fails he has no defence.

 

[Finnieston]

funny. tactics are the thing that really worries me. it strikes me of someone who keeps throwing down the runes hoping me might land on a formation that works.. nothing to do with actual planning

And yet he has planned it before with Promotions ......Funny isn't it

 

[Finnieston]

Yes. Deserves to go for analytically boring us all to death.

Can bore me as much as he likes if we are winning. Managers get same old boring questions every match and so give out the same old boring answers. So its all boring and then its match stats , that's boring, and then praise and grumble .......That's really boring..Sky on Saturday that's boring. Who wants to listen to the ins and outs of goal just missed or an offside Jeff..........Ime going now iMe getting boring.

 

[COME BACK CHED]

I think we have to ask ourselves why is this Adkins worst season as a football Manager ..................i blame Sammon .........,Barn doors and Banjos spring to mind .with him

 

[The Bohemian]

We were miles away under Clough, and were humbled in the play offs.

We scraped into the top 6 yet were closer in points to the bottom four than to the top 2!

Didn't we refuse to go for Morsey because of the fee involved? That's what's held us back this season.

Still, at least we now have a 'Technical Board' made up of non football types to help us in the future.

I'm not disputing that last season was disappointing - just less disappointing than this one.

I don't have insight into the Morsy situation but I'd be very surprised if he was earning more than Hammond and, given he'd have been out of contract this summer, his fee wouldn't have been huge. The weight of evidence tells me that Adkins was intent on signing Hammond and wouldn't have been able to justify both. I agree wholeheartedly this has held us back this season, along with taking too long to resolve central defence, failing to sign an effective wide player and starting the season with the wrong formation (given players at his disposal).

Totally respect your views mate and when I'm feeling more critical I probably agree to a point. But, I remember last season under Clough and how dire it was, it was very similar to this, like losing to Crewe and Fleetwood spring to mind and getting tonked by Swindon. I don't agree that we were close under Clough last season. We were 20 points behind second place MK, 18 behind third placed Preston and 8 points behind Swindon who of course beat us in the play offs. Despite this season been woefully disappointing, we're only 5 points off last seasons final total of 71 points and of course we still have a game to go. Crucially Clough had Murphy, a player he never signed of course, but without doubt the best winger I've seen at the Lane for many a year. So all in all I would say the only criticism we can label at Adkins (based on comparing last seasons "achievement") is that Adkins didn't bring in the quality two or three that we needed and yes I agree that we should have signed the likes of Morsy, I have no defence for why that didn't happen. If he had signed Morsy, Mawson and Hamill, we probably would have been top two but we don't know who Adkins tried to sign that would have made a big difference, but couldn't get them over the line, He has said that he hasn't being able to bring in who he wanted at various times this season.

All in all I think he deserves another shot at it with his squad. Then if he fails he has no defence.

Your respect for opposing and different views is reciprocated. You, Peteblade and a small majority of others, it appears, are prone to give Adkins a bit longer to turn things around. I'm not vehemently opposed to this, especially if he's already allocated a large chunk of next season's budget on the likes of Hammond.

Neither was I an unqualified Clough groupie although I thought, on balance, he'd done enough in 18 months to be allowed to start this season. The board apparently felt similarly and his sacking was due to an undisclosed disagreement.

Adkins hasn't been able to sign some of the players he wanted to sign. Is he part of the problem here? Did Murphy decide to jump ship shortly after signing a new 3 year contract, partly because he wasn't convinced by Adkins?

He divides opinion amongst supporters with some appreciating his uber-positivity and other seeing it as cliched and contrived. I suspect he has a similar impact within the dressing room. Understandably, he will aim to resolve this by signing players he knows and trusts, and who buy into his mantra. Are these the players who have what it takes to get us out this league? We can't be too confident on that score can we?

 

[alcoblade]

I'

He divides opinion amongst supporters with some appreciating his uber-positivity and other seeing it as cliched and contrived. I suspect he has a similar impact within the dressing room. Understandably, he will aim to resolve this by signing players he knows and trusts, and who buy into his mantra. Are these the players who have what it takes to get us out this league? We can't be too confident on that score can we?

I don't think many of his supporters, me included, particularly like the uber positivity, or the style and content of his interviews. I suspect it's more that we've calculated the quality on content of interviews has the square root of fuck all correlation with just about anything.

UTB

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Can bore me as much as he likes if we are winning. Managers get same old boring questions every match and so give out the same old boring answers. So its all boring and then its match stats , that's boring, and then praise and grumble .......That's really boring..Sky on Saturday that's boring. Who wants to listen to the ins and outs of goal just missed or an offside Jeff..........Ime going now iMe getting boring.

I agree with the winning part. You can forgive a lot of the team is performing. However, this was the most lacklustre, colourless season we have had in the last 20+ years. Even the last relegation season was "interesting" with the variety of managers we went through. This season we had one minor highlight of Old Trafford (brought to a crunching halt by Hammond) but the rest was just Blah. An inept series of insipid displays and passionless performances.