Jim Phipps summed up our current predicament perfectly...

[bornablade]

Some of my main beefs about Clough and in particular Garner are their displays of outrage, disgust and disappointment with their players during the game. The opposition managers and support staff generally encourage and guide their players. Clough and Garner spend a lot of time shaking their heads and showing outward disappointment with their players.

I'm not sure which audience they are playing to, but if it's the players then the last thing they need to see is their manager and his assistant shaking their heads. A clap and an encouraging signal would be far more useful, a player knows full well when he has made a mistake.

Coaching should be done before games, bollockings should be done after games and reinforced throughout the week.What purpose is served "jumping up and down" and Clough does that time and again, or shaking a head, head in hands, slumped walk staring at the floor, which Garner does all the time. What purpose does all that serve?

Public bollockings, arms raised in agitation. anger, FFS the time to teach players is throughout the week not during the game. The thing to do in the game is tweak formations, guide individuals, encourage, push the players on to greater things.

!st team SUFC is not a comfortable place to play football. The bench at SUFC is even worse, all the subs hear every f'ing word from their bosses who show little control and clear thinking as far as I can see.

I think Cloughie and Garner are probably using the crowd as their role models. The amount of vitriol that descends from the terraces is what they hear and believe that's what we are looking for. One week it's Doyle, the next it's Coutts or maybe Howard. Makes no difference it just seems OK for us to barrack every mistake but the management mustn't do it.

Becomes an example of 'do as I say and not as I do.'

We can't have it both ways.

 

[JJ Sefton]

One last thing, I don't think Derby fans are the only interested party in what did or didn't happen.

And the hat trick, again, not something I said. I said that Derby fans know better than me or thee whether Clough's tenure was, indeed, "one of the worst 5 years spells in Derby's long history".

 

[Woodwardfan]

I think Cloughie and Garner are probably using the crowd as their role models. The amount of vitriol that descends from the terraces is what they hear and believe that's what we are looking for. One week it's Doyle, the next it's Coutts or maybe Howard. Makes no difference it just seems OK for us to barrack every mistake but the management mustn't do it.

Becomes an example of 'do as I say and not as I do.'

We can't have it both ways.

I don't do it , do you?

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Some of my main beefs about Clough and in particular Garner are their displays of outrage, disgust and disappointment with their players during the game. The opposition managers and support staff generally encourage and guide their players. Clough and Garner spend a lot of time shaking their heads and showing outward disappointment with their players.

I'm not sure which audience they are playing to, but if it's the players then the last thing they need to see is their manager and his assistant shaking their heads. A clap and an encouraging signal would be far more useful, a player knows full well when he has made a mistake.

Coaching should be done before games, bollockings should be done after games and reinforced throughout the week.What purpose is served "jumping up and down" and Clough does that time and again, or shaking a head, head in hands, slumped walk staring at the floor, which Garner does all the time. What purpose does all that serve?

Public bollockings, arms raised in agitation. anger, FFS the time to teach players is throughout the week not during the game. The thing to do in the game is tweak formations, guide individuals, encourage, push the players on to greater things.

!st team SUFC is not a comfortable place to play football. The bench at SUFC is even worse, all the subs hear every f'ing word from their bosses who show little control and clear thinking as far as I can see.

Reading your post it sounded like you were voicing your thoughts about the fans , head in hands , jumping up and down , shaking heads , staring at the floor . Sympathy to Clough and Co after some of the dire performances . Either Clough and Co know nothing about tactics or the players are too thick to carry them out in the first place . Could be a bit of both .

People complain about the fans negativity , lack of encouragement . Well welcome to the club Mr Clough , you now know how we feel . Can you let Phippsy know , were we are all going wrong ,and plan of action for the play offs.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

WHF. The information is simple.

Any club with aspirations to achieve promotion needs a strong central defence plus two players in reserve plus an odd full back/midfielder who can step in when needed.

Our manager has been with us since October 2013. He has had half a season and a full summer plus more than half another season altogether including 2x JTW and various Loan windows.

That is complete information. do you think our manager has got his basics right in this essential respect? YES/NO.

I could extend this to the striker situation but I won't.

I could extend this to the central midfield situation but I won't.

YES or NO?

It seems pretty obvious to me that the information is far from complete eg

• budget
• demands of any CH targets
• or their clubs
• medical prognosis of TK
• assessments of HM2s capability
• what happened with Collins
• with Butler

By extending it to other positions this to me weakens the argument rather than strengthening it for reasons analogous (or even identical) to those above. It reads as though we should have like-for-like cover in all positions. Maybe I'm misinterpreting.

Aisi finite resources have been allocated in a way that has resulted in an imperfect outcome. This could almost be the definition of management. To what extent those imperfections could have been further minimized or differently prioritized is what makes one manager better or luckier than another.

The responses to which loan players, and/or which player/s we should not have signed to address (not necessarily solve) the CH problem remain unconvincing for now.

It's a difficult situation. It'd be good to hear about it from the club.

Also the Yes/No stuff is all a bit "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

 

[Woodwardfan]

It seems pretty obvious to me that the information is far from complete eg

• budget
• demands of any CH targets
• or their clubs
• medical prognosis of TK
• assessments of HM2s capability
• what happened with Collins
• with Butler

By extending it to other positions this to me weakens the argument rather than strengthening it for reasons analogous (or even identical) to those above. It reads as though we should have like-for-like cover in all positions. Maybe I'm misinterpreting.

Aisi finite resources have been allocated in a way that has resulted in an imperfect outcome. This could almost be the definition of management. To what extent those imperfections could have been further minimized or differently prioritized is what makes one manager better or luckier than another.

The responses to which loan players, and/or which player/s we should not have signed to address (not necessarily solve) the CH problem remain unconvincing for now.

It's a difficult situation. It'd be good to hear about it from the club.

Also the Yes/No stuff is all a bit "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Hey WHF this is not a court case and you are not a barrister. Simple: Do you think clough has had enough time and money to field us a couple of capable centre halves each week? He's assembled a squad of 32 players, do you think we should have a couple of centre halves and a bit of cover?

If you can't answer YES or NO, how about percentage probabilities or the like?

Or put another way, do you think it's one of the main reasons we have not fulfilled our potential this season?

Another question then. Do you think Cotterill, Grayson, Cooper and Robinson have managed their budgets and their squads better than Clough?

 

[judge]

so your adding several kids weve signed in that original 11 giving a very sewed look at it
if you want it balanced add the 6 under 21 players bristol city signed

compare like with like ,

http://www1.skysports.com/football/sheffield-united-transfers

thats 17 in all season 18 out and 3 of those in are among those
out on loan

one of them had tootache and another had had a late night so thats 15

And not forgetting that most of them are small so lets call it a round dozen

Wow nige has done a reyt job

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Hey WHF this is not a court case and you are not a barrister.

Objection! Oh...

Simple: Do you think clough has had enough time and money to field us a couple of capable centre halves each week? He's assembled a squad of 32 players, do you think we should have a couple of centre halves and a bit of cover?

If you can't answer YES or NO, how about percentage probabilities or the like?

Can't make my answer to this much clearer. I'll just refer to previous responses.

I might draw a further distinction between simple and simplistic m'lud.

Or put another way, do you think it's one of the main reasons we have not fulfilled our potential this season?

More wife-beating. This presumes I agree we've not fulfilled our potential? Don't ask me whether I do - you won't like the answer

Another question then. Do you think Cotterill, Grayson, Cooper and Robinson have managed their budgets and their squads better than Clough?

Interesting question. Don't know enough about the others.

 

[judge]

This thread ​

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Hey WHF this is not a court case and you are not a barrister. Simple: Do you think clough has had enough time and money to field us a couple of capable centre halves each week? He's assembled a squad of 32 players, do you think we should have a couple of centre halves and a bit of cover?

If you can't answer YES or NO, how about percentage probabilities or the like?

Or put another way, do you think it's one of the main reasons we have not fulfilled our potential this season?

Another question then. Do you think Cotterill, Grayson, Cooper and Robinson have managed their budgets and their squads better than Clough?

Lets leave Clough alone until the end of the season. And fuck all other managers . Totally irrelevant . What counts is what happens here and now . We are in the play offs and its crucial we win them . Debate , opinions will be at full swing whether we achieve it or not.

Winning is everything and we are in with a shout.

UTB

 

[Large Mendonca]

It'll be interesting (to me anyway) whether certain members will fire the "single cell" put-down to Mr Phipps, if he ends up sacking Cloughie at the end of the season.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Davie Blade didn't say Clough alone was responsible, you're putting words into his mouth. You are 'correcting' things you made up.

It's like a deep, dark cloud of self-righteous 'I told you so' has descended. I've not made anything up, I've had no need to.

I could point out that I never said you said that about Derby supporters, but it seems that by stating I did it becomes your fact, thus an absolute which should never be questioned. I could suggest that I never said DB came right out and said those things, but instead he inferred them about Clough, but I don't think it would make a blind bit of difference to your usual attritional style of discussion/argument. If you can point out where I confirmed your observations, all well and good. So, please show me where I actually said anyone, you or DB, has said those things. My comment about Derby fans does not mention anything you've said, it was an observation, just as your comments about Derby fans are an observation. But I guess, because you said it, that makes it right.

I've not put words into anyone's mouth, even if you say that's the case. Quite simply, you're wrong.

Don't know about you Walthy, sometimes you're mildly amusing, but when you begin to misinterpret what I've written I find the whole thing tedious.

 

[Bladesway]

You have bollocked me a few times for so doing as you well know. What do you think though B'Way?

Of we win games and get promoted I don't care if Peter Sutcliffe and Fred West are running team affairs.

 

[JJ Sefton]

It's like a deep, dark cloud of self-righteous 'I told you so' has descended. I've not made anything up, I've had no need to.

Aye, well, folk can judge for themselves. I can only assume the first sentence is ironic.

 

[Bladesway]

Some of my main beefs about Clough and in particular Garner are their displays of outrage, disgust and disappointment with their players during the game.

It's been a day of surprises for me.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Aye, well, folk can judge for themselves. I can only assume the first sentence is ironic.

And there you go assuming again....you are a card.

 

[pommpey]

Oh, I'm more than 'of a certain age'!

Peter Sarstedt - 'Where do you go to, my lovely?'

Can't see what this has to do with this thread, though. Must be a conspiracy.

​

The Royal Navy's version of that song.

You talk like Marlene Deitrich,
You dance like Biffo the Bear,
Your clothes are all made by Bernards,
And there's lice and there's spunk in your hair,
And up your back
You know you're slack.

CHORUS
So where do you go to my lovely,
When you're alone in your pit?
Tell me your thoughts that surround you,
When you're having a spine shattering shit.

You live in a fancy compartment,
In one of Her Majesty's Ships,
With Four Hundred and twenty young Fishheads,
Each one of them gives you the shits,
Yes they do....

Your name it is heard in high places,
You know the Buffer quite well,
He gave you a Dildo for Christmas,
And you use it to ring the ship's bell,
Yes you do,
Ding-a-ling....

Do you remember the Embassy party?
I recall that you caused quite a stir,
Sliding down the banister,
With your Piss flaps going:
Brr brrrr,
brr brrrr,
brr brrrr.

I remember the back streets of Gosport,
Your arsehole all gaping and wide,
I remember that I popped my head in,
And the rest of the mess was inside,
Playing draughts for a laugh,
Ha-ha ha-ha....

I remember the back streets of Naples,
The children begging in rags,
I remember you stole all their money,
For a pint and a packet of fags,
Yes you did,
For half a quid.

I know where you go to my lovely,
When you're alone in your pit,
I know the thoughts that surround you,
Cos I know that you're just brim full of SHIT

pommpey

 

[JJ Sefton]

And there you go assuming again....you are a card.

I have my moments.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Some of my main beefs about Clough and in particular Garner are their displays of outrage, disgust and disappointment with their players during the game. The opposition managers and support staff generally encourage and guide their players. Clough and Garner spend a lot of time shaking their heads and showing outward disappointment with their players.

I'm not sure which audience they are playing to, but if it's the players then the last thing they need to see is their manager and his assistant shaking their heads. A clap and an encouraging signal would be far more useful, a player knows full well when he has made a mistake.

Coaching should be done before games, bollockings should be done after games and reinforced throughout the week.What purpose is served "jumping up and down" and Clough does that time and again, or shaking a head, head in hands, slumped walk staring at the floor, which Garner does all the time. What purpose does all that serve?

Public bollockings, arms raised in agitation. anger, FFS the time to teach players is throughout the week not during the game. The thing to do in the game is tweak formations, guide individuals, encourage, push the players on to greater things.

!st team SUFC is not a comfortable place to play football. The bench at SUFC is even worse, all the subs hear every f'ing word from their bosses who show little control and clear thinking as far as I can see.

according to you woodyfan clough has lost the dressing room he is a dead man walking if thats the case.I think he shows the frustration he is feeling as the players are not responding to advise he is trying to give he obviously tells them what he wants prematch and the team is not following instruction.Its a common problem when things are not going to plan and all managers respond in one way or another ,we get frustrated ime sure he feels it twice as much,COME ON GET BEHIND THE BLADES.

 

[Maidenhead]

Oh, I'm more than 'of a certain age'!

Peter Sarstedt - 'Where do you go to, my lovely?'

Can't see what this has to do with this thread, though. Must be a conspiracy.

​

just wondered if you could see inside his head from your seat "quite near" him?

I'm just mischief making, we all have our own opinions and I'm certainly not the type to say you're wrong because my opinion is different to yours.

Vive la difference and UTB

 

[Mickey Jupp]

Jim is undoubtedly a very decent man and he is a great communicator - not sure what he knows about football but his heart seems to be in the right place.

On the other hand we have Kevin McCabe. No explanation or apology for making the very public statement that the "gamechanging" investment would be "for investment at first-team level". Which ever way you look at it that has not happened.

 

[YES Blade]

Jim is undoubtedly a very decent man and he is a great communicator - not sure what he knows about football but his heart seems to be in the right place.

On the other hand we have Kevin McCabe. No explanation or apology for making the very public statement that the "gamechanging" investment would be "for investment at first-team level". Which ever way you look at it that has not happened.

How exactly has the investment not been in the first team? We must have spent more on transfer fees this season than the majority of League One combined!

 

[pommpey]

How exactly has the investment not been in the first team? We must have spent more on transfer fees this season than the majority of League One combined!

How do you know that? Okay - we spent £2.5m on a right-back? £2.5m for a fucking right-back. When we had Higdon, McNulty, Potter ...

So, how much did Done cost? And Clough plays him out of position, despite his prolific start? I see dark forces at work here.

pommpey

 

[BladeFisher]

How is Clough responsible for our prolonged stay in Division 3? He's had less than one season at trying to get us out. If "failure" after one season is the standard - then Yes we'll need a revolving door.

Well a look at their respective records shows a very close similarity between Clough's and Wilson's record. With six matches to go until Clough equals Wilson's record in terms of the number of games in charge he would have to win all six to exactly equal his win record. Of course if he did we'd be promoted and everyone would be happy!

Wilson P 106 W 55 D 20 L 31 Win % 51.89
Clough P 100 W 49 D 27 L 24 Win % 49.00

What appears to upset everyone is Clough's approach where consistently United get a lead in games then hang on hoping to defend it. Now I appreciate that it is the players on the pitch not Clough but it would appear this has happened so consistently this season that one starts to question that this state of affairs is just the players fault.

If we fail yet again to either qualify for the play offs (possible though unlikely unless we lose to Orient) or win them we'll be into a fifth season in this league and the league performances this season of all seasons appears to give the perception that we simply aren't good enough. Given the level of investment or rather funds made available sadly I would say that if promotion is not secured then that is failure.

Only one other manager has managed not to get us promoted out of this league at the first attempt, (Harry Haslam), so yes I would consider it failure if Clough did not get us up this year. We're Sheffield United and we should as a club be better than this.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Oh, I'm more than 'of a certain age'!

Peter Sarstedt - 'Where do you go to, my lovely?'

Can't see what this has to do with this thread, though. Must be a conspiracy.

​

Along with Knockin On Heaven's Door, Sloop John B, and Me and Bobbie McGhee, that was one of the first four songs I learnt on the guitar.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Jim is undoubtedly a very decent man and he is a great communicator - not sure what he knows about football but his heart seems to be in the right place.

On the other hand we have Kevin McCabe. No explanation or apology for making the very public statement that the "gamechanging" investment would be "for investment at first-team level". Which ever way you look at it that has not happened.

The most inane bollocks I have ever read. Investment at first team level hasn't happened?? Ridiculous

 

[Woodwardfan]

Jim is undoubtedly a very decent man and he is a great communicator - not sure what he knows about football but his heart seems to be in the right place.

On the other hand we have Kevin McCabe. No explanation or apology for making the very public statement that the "gamechanging" investment would be "for investment at first-team level". Which ever way you look at it that has not happened.

I think it was his youngest son who said that.

 

[Worksop II]

I think it was his youngest son who said that.

Who'dve thunk that talking Bollocks was hereditary

 

[Torrix1889]

The thing that is really annoying me with Clough at the moment is he seems to think his tenure so far has been a success and he is doing a good job, now that is either arrogance of the highest order or he is being told he is doing a good job by those above him

 

[blade too long]

regarding cloughs tenure at derby , he took over a club struggling in relegation zone
and growing massive debys , around 37m when he took over

his job description was to cut the wage bill over 3 years from

Well a look at their respective records shows a very close similarity between Clough's and Wilson's record. With six matches to go until Clough equals Wilson's record in terms of the number of games in charge he would have to win all six to exactly equal his win record. Of course if he did we'd be promoted and everyone would be happy!

Wilson P 106 W 55 D 20 L 31 Win % 51.89
Clough P 100 W 49 D 27 L 24 Win % 49.00

What appears to upset everyone is Clough's approach where consistently United get a lead in games then hang on hoping to defend it. Now I appreciate that it is the players on the pitch not Clough but it would appear this has happened so consistently this season that one starts to question that this state of affairs is just the players fault.

If we fail yet again to either qualify for the play offs (possible though unlikely unless we lose to Orient) or win them we'll be into a fifth season in this league and the league performances this season of all seasons appears to give the perception that we simply aren't good enough. Given the level of investment or rather funds made available sadly I would say that if promotion is not secured then that is failure.

Only one other manager has managed not to get us promoted out of this league at the first attempt, (Harry Haslam), so yes I would consider it failure if Clough did not get us up this year. We're Sheffield United and we should as a club be better than this.

lets not forget wilson inherited championship players ,
clough inherited a bag of bollocks, think if clough had had Ched we might be slightly higher
sTARTING 11 v brentford 1st home game

• 1 Simonsen
• 2 Lowton
• 15 Collins
• 19 Maguire
• 3 Jean-Francois
• 7 Mendez-Laing
  
• 4 Montgomery
• 27 McDonald
• 28 Quinn
• 12 Slew
  
  
• 17 Cresswell .. bit better than what clough started with