How much influence are you happy for AI to have?

[ben1987]

Well that fucking settles it then. Common sense.

Exactly how everyone half sensible has been describing it.

 

[Blade58]

“How much influence”

This much:

 

[1889]

As much as you're asking for examples of other clubs who have used data led recruitment to great success, can you name some clubs (without asking Google, oh the irony), who have used data led recruitment where it's been a proven disaster?

Haven’t Barnsley been using some version of Billy Beanes ‘Moneyball’ system, for the last 4 or 5 seasons?

I believe their data driven model, imposes rigid financial limits, as well as upper age restrictions on potential recruits? The result being that they had a very young squad, with the potential to grow and improve together. In 2021 they were in the Championship and last season, finished 12th in League 1.

Whilst I don’t suppose that would qualify as a disaster, the system has not resulted in the success, I’m sure the owners and fans would have hoped for when it was introduced, being based on the positive results previously enjoyed by the Oakland A’s Baseball team.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Haven’t Barnsley been using some version of Billy Beanes ‘Moneyball’ system, for the last 4 or 5 seasons?

They weren't just using his model, they were using the actual Billy Beane himself.

From the Barnsley FC Wikipedia page:

In December 2017, Patrick Cryne and his family sold an 80% stake in the club to NewCity Capital's Chien Lee and Pacific Media Group's Paul Conway; they were joined by Indian investor Neerav Parekh and executive vice president of baseball operations and minority owner of the Oakland Athletics of Major League Baseball, Billy Beane (famous from the Moneyball film), as part of the international investor consortium.[16][17] Barnsley were relegated to the third tier in 2017–18;[18] afterwards. the new owners used a data approach to identify talents, focusing on young players and team rebuilding.[19] The club appointed Daniel Stendel as head coach,[20] who played high pressing football; Barnsley were promoted back to the Championship the following season.[21] In the 2019–20 season, under new coach Gerhard Struber,[22] Barnsley avoided relegation from the Championship.[23] In 2020–21, under the management of Valérien Ismaël, Barnsley finished in fifth place and made it to the EFL Championship Play-offs for the first time in 24 years, with the youngest squad and one of the smallest budgets in the league.[24] The Wall Street Journal called Barnsley a "Moneyball experiment".[25]

So far. So good. Sort of.

But then it all goes a bit wrong and...

In July 2023, the EFL charged Barnsley with 5 breaches of the EFL Regulations related to the ownership of the club under Conway and Lee's tenure, whilst also charging Conway and Lee individually with causing these breaches in regulations.

I don't know where Billy Beane is in all this but the forward-thinking technology tells me...



So that must be true.

However from 6th June 2023...



I'm not saying Chris Wilder was Paolo Maldini, but there are parallels

Since the appointment of the actual Billy Beane...

23-24 2nd in Serie A, Group Stage of Champions League
24-25 8th in Serie A, KPO (no idea what that is, but it doesn't sound good).

(AC Milan that is, not Barnsley.)

I liked our season in Division 4 and look forward to doing it all again in a few years, but this time with New! Improved! Forward-Thinking! AI!

Darlington here we come! (If Google Maps will tell me where it is.)

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Well that fucking settles it then. Common sense.

Exactly how everyone half sensible has been describing it.

I wouldn't say that settles it per se. It could well be that the recruitment team tell him they've identified five potential strikers from data, but he gets to pick which one. This summer will tell us more when we starts seeing signings.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Good Technology

 

[ben1987]

I wouldn't say that settles it per se. It could well be that the recruitment team tell him they've identified five potential strikers from data, but he gets to pick which one. This summer will tell us more when we starts seeing signings.

I mean it settles the narrative that we are going to be only signing random players out of the Bulgarian league, blind, without properly scouting them and Selles would have no say in the matter cos AI said so.

As spouted several times on here.

What you describe is a far more sensible use of Ai.

 

[Charlieblade]

I don't believe any professional had influence on the signing, but that's another point.

He wouldn't be remotely near a place in the under 21's without "outside influence".

Any signing suggested by AI, will surely go through the system of selection currently in use. Signing the player is based on a final decision by the manager. Does the player need watching in live games? Does he warrant a trial at the club?
Presumably, the selected player will join the club based on those criteria, and final decision made by the manager and his coaching team
It is then the responsibility of the Academy to develop the player, either for first team selection or for sale, hopefully at a profit.
Carceres for example, would be put forward by the academy for first team selection. Any further choice is then made by the manager.
IIRC, Carceres made the bench a few times last season, but was an unused substitute.
If academy coaches put him forward again, the final decision rests with the manager. (Selles)

That is how I understand the system to work currently, and I can’t see anything in data or in AI changing that. This is the same route that brought in Arblaster and Peck et al.
Unless you know something different, the only change will be the depth of choice that AI and Data can bring if used effectively.

 

[DI36O]

In today’s hyper-competitive football landscape, the use of AI in football management isn’t just a good thing—it’s a strategic imperative. In an ever-evolving game, the clubs that win are the ones that act fast, think smart, and operate data-first. Because in today’s game, success is no longer just about heart—it’s about data.

From optimising training loads to dynamically adjusting tactical frameworks, AI platforms empower coaches to pinpoint those decisive moments and supercharge vertical football strategies with surgical precision. Harnessing data-driven insights means every drill, every selection, every substitution is backed by robust analysis—not guesswork.

From a boardroom perspective, the business case is clear. Investing in AI is a progressive, ROI-driven decision that modernises scouting, streamlines recruitment pipelines, and future-proofs club operations. By seamlessly integrating intelligent analytics into every layer of the organisation, you’re not just evolving—you’re modernising football’s core DNA.

In today’s dynamic football ecosystem, leveraging data to inform both short-term tactics and long-term strategy is non-negotiable. Embracing AI is not optional—it’s inevitable. It’s time to stop guessing and start progressing.

This is more than an upgrade; it’s about dragging the club into the 21st century with confidence and class. It’s football, but with the volume turned up. Let’s bring best-in-class innovation to the touchline, fuel progressive decision-making, and modernise the beautiful game from the boardroom to the back four.

 

[PokerBlade]

What do we think is more likely:

That the board wanted to try and expand the scouting network and wanted a manager to work with that remit and everyone seized on one of the biggest buzzwords going

or

The board are picking players without putting human eyes on them

Because my biggest concern about Wilder was things like that when he gets his sights on a player he seems incredibly reluctant to move on. Hence the rumours looking to next season were: bring back McBurnie, extend Brewster's contract, and bring in Mepham (that he's been after for 18 months now). And I'm not saying I was necessarily on board with sacking him, but it's at least understandable if that was that breaking point with a board who wants to use a different approach and maybe uncover some players further afield.

I feel like, even if people disagree, if we just drop the words "data driven" and "AI" and think about how we know Wilder tends to go about recruitment it's a lot easier to see why a divide formed. Wilder heavily leans towards being able to vet players via people he trusts. Which is fine. It's probably why we have so many good characters in the squad. But it's also a big limitation. And I can see why a new board wants a different way of doing things. But the bulk of the talk is not about a shift in the scope of our network or how we might more targets, it's just "AI this" and "Data driven that".

 

[Dellas Cowboys]

I'd consider using AI to help choose the half time biscuits or to schedule the timing of the sprinklers. That's it.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

I’m not exactly sure what the finer points of how it’s used tbh .. id imagine it allows us to spread the scouting net without having someone attend .. cant imagine for a minute it would be used as the definitive tool for assessing a signing ?
As we all know stat driven data doesn’t always give you a true picture .. I believe in it more when I see some of its products performing in the first team
I would like to hear Hoylands thoughts on it & his merits as head of recruitment

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

I’m not exactly sure what the finer points of how it’s used tbh .. id imagine it allows us to spread the scouting net without having someone attend .. cant imagine for a minute it would be used as the definitive tool for assessing a signing ?
As we all know stat driven data doesn’t always give you a true picture .. I believe in it more when I see some of its products performing in the first team
I would like to hear Hoylands thoughts on it & his merits as head of recruitment

Data is only as good as how you interpret it, unless you delve into the details. Anyone can manipulate data to suit their agenda, but when you go right into it the truth reveals itself more clearly.

What if you were asked who is the better player?

Player A - who scored 5 goals in 10 games

Or

Player B - who only scored in 2 games out of 10

Player A right? He averages a goal every other game.

But what if someone then told you that Player A and Player B were the same player?

Let's say the player's scoring record looked like this.

Game #1 - 0 goals
Game #2 - 3 goals
Game #3 - 0 goals
Game #4 - 0 goals
Game #5 - 0 goals
Game #6 - 0 goals
Game #7 - 0 goals
Game #8 - 2 goals
Game #9 - 0 goals
Game #10 - 0 goals

All of a sudden player who averages 1 goal every other game doesn't look so good. His record looks good for goals to games but in reality he only scored in 2 matches and at one stage only scored in 1 match out if 7.

On the flip side you could have another player (Player C), whose scoring record is

Game #1 - 0 goals
Game #2 - 0 goals
Game #3 - 1 goal
Game #4 - 0 goals
Game #5 - 0 goals
Game #6 - 1 goal
Game #7 - 0 goals
Game #8 - 0 goals
Game #9 - 1 goal
Game #10 - 0 goals

He actually is a 1 in 3 striker and far more likely to score in a match than Player A. This is the player you should be signing, not player A.

This is what the AI can do for our recruitment team.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Hasn't Selles clarified this in his interview??
Why is it still even a thing for people to wind themselves up about?

 

[1993]

Data is only as good as how you interpret it, unless you delve into the details. Anyone can manipulate data to suit their agenda, but when you go right into it the truth reveals itself more clearly.

What if you were asked who is the better player?

Player A - who scored 5 goals in 10 games

Or

Player B - who only scored in 2 games out of 10

Player A right? He averages a goal every other game.

But what if someone then told you that Player A and Player B were the same player?

Let's say the player's scoring record looked like this.

Game #1 - 0 goals
Game #2 - 3 goals
Game #3 - 0 goals
Game #4 - 0 goals
Game #5 - 0 goals
Game #6 - 0 goals
Game #7 - 0 goals
Game #8 - 2 goals
Game #9 - 0 goals
Game #10 - 0 goals

All of a sudden player who averages 1 goal every other game doesn't look so good. His record looks good for goals to games but in reality he only scored in 2 matches and at one stage only scored in 1 match out if 7.

On the flip side you could have another player (Player C), whose scoring record is

Game #1 - 0 goals
Game #2 - 0 goals
Game #3 - 1 goal
Game #4 - 0 goals
Game #5 - 0 goals
Game #6 - 1 goal
Game #7 - 0 goals
Game #8 - 0 goals
Game #9 - 1 goal
Game #10 - 0 goals

He actually is a 1 in 3 striker and far more likely to score in a match than Player A. This is the player you should be signing, not player A.

This is what the AI can do for our recruitment team.

Is player A (and B) Tom Cannon?

 

[Rodley]

Not a great look this for the club and feels a bit naive from the new ownership.

 

[DifferentClass]

Not a great look this for the club and feels a bit naive from the new ownership.

Turns out AI is actually Anton Ivanovich, their chief scout!

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Wonder if we have only Isis the license fee on the Bulgarian AI at the minute

 

[Rodley]

Turns out AI is actually Anton Ivanovich, their chief scout!

AI says buy my player!

 

[CPB]

Not a great look this for the club and feels a bit naive from the new ownership.

Oh good. haha.

Anyone getting a bit worried with 1. lack of signings. (It is still early I'll admit) But 2. the rumoured players we seem to be targeting?

Proof's gonna be in the pudding. And depend on who leaves. For instance if we lost no one else contracted and added 4 or so players inc. poss loans you'd think the squad quality would be enough to get us up in that top 6. Assuming Selles can uphold his end of the bargain in a way.

 

[jt64]

I'd consider using AI to help choose the half time biscuits or to schedule the timing of the sprinklers. That's it.

Here we go

 

[Darren William]

It just seems all the concentration on new signing is going into these al system development type players .When really it's the first team that should be getting more attention I know the players aren't back yet and we don't know what's happening behind scenes.

 

[PokerBlade]

It just seems all the concentration on new signing is going into these al system development type players .When really it's the first team that should be getting more attention I know the players aren't back yet and we don't know what's happening behind scenes.

I think last year when we brought in Baptiste from Man City nobody batted an eyelid because punts on youths are common, but since we've done three and might do a fourth from foreign leagues that's apparently a big deal.

In the JTW we spent big money on Cannon and let Wilder pick out several loan signings. What held us back was that we still ended up with a midfielder at right back and no upgrade on Robinson. It wasn't lack of funds and it wasn't because we signed a Peruvian kid.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

As far as I’m concerned AI is a fucking genius

 

[Frank the tank]

As far as I’m concerned AI is a fucking genius

Thing is though there is nothing really between tte top ten
Its funny how 9 of them dont spend all their time and energy boring everyone to tears banging on about how massive they are

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

It's happening.
Training video from Shirecliffe has been leaked.

Watch: Humanoid robots stumble through football match in China

The robots kicked, scored and tumbled while competing at a tourmentant in Beijing.

www.bbc.co.uk