Norwood

[Houston_Blade]

I thought Ollie Norwood had a good game on Saturday, he was the link between defence and midfield, not an athlete, most of the players are athletes, the definition of an athlete -

Someone is considered athletic when they possess a combination of strength, speed, endurance, agility, balance, and coordination. They typically excel in physical activities and sports, demonstrating a high level of fitness and skills in one or more areas.

I bet most fans can't run for 10minutes, never mind for 90 minutes.

Everton had some huge players over 6 foot, there stride is much like Usain Bolt, it's very difficult for smaller players to keep up with them.

You also can't run faster than when a football is kicked, Ollie is a very good passer of a football, all players have different attributes, that's why football is the greatest game in the world and was made in SHEFFIELD

By definition all footballers are athletes, there are levels of athletes though and in the PL Norwood can't compete physically in most games. I like Norwood, but his physical limitations are clear. He'd outrun fans, but then I sit behind a desk for hours every day while he's running around so it's a bit of a daft point to make.

 

[Ludgblade64]

By definition all footballers are athletes, there are levels of athletes though and in the PL Norwood can't compete physically in most games. I like Norwood, but his physical limitations are clear. He'd outrun fans, but then I sit behind a desk for hours every day while he's running around so it's a bit of a daft point to make.

What do you mean pen pusher, fans are constantly criticising the players, like you are doing, they are professional footballs, most players have different strengths, Ollie Norwood his his passing ability, he's technically very good, that's why he's a professional football and you sit behind a desk all day

 

[Houston_Blade]

What do you mean pen pusher, fans are constantly criticising the players, like you are doing, they are professional footballs, most players have different strengths, Ollie Norwood his his passing ability, he's technically very good, that's why he's a professional football and you sit behind a desk all day

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with how this forum works but what happens is that we discuss what’s going on with Sheffield United, this involves discussing the relative merits of individual players in the team.

I am a fan of Oliver Norwood, but I’m also aware of his physical limitations and the fact that there are players who are both physically stronger than him and more capable of passing a football. We’re in the big boys league now so the 2 don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

I’m not sure Norwood would like being described as a ‘professional football’ either, sounds a bit painful to me.

The ‘pen pusher’ comment hurts me greatly, proper cutting remark. I might have to go and sit in the corner for a few hours and rock to get over it.

You’ve also brought to my attention that at 39 years old I probably won’t become a professional footballer, I need some time to get over this and will work out an alternative career path for myself in due course when I’ve stopped crying.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Pen pusher is so 70’s. Shineyarse is more hip these days and Derek’s tears wouldn’t be shrinking his merino wool sleeveless fisherman’s cardy, or staining his Thoresby Crocs.

 

[Charlieblade]

Will be good backup to a trio of McAtee, Hamer, Souza.

Did some good things today but looked out of his depth for large parts against a mobile and physical opposition midfield.

This!
Norwood is a decent midfielder, but just like Basham, and even Egan, he gets older with every game he plays. They are all experienced players, but the current level of PL players is outpacing them. Vini will eventually contribute more, andTom Davies is younger but has box to box quality the Norwood can’t rely on now.
He is a very good back up for injuries and suspensions in a combative PL midfield area. For this season only.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Pen pusher is so 70’s. Shineyarse is more hip these days and Derek’s tears wouldn’t be shrinking his merino wool sleeveless fisherman’s cardy, or staining his Thoresby Crocs.

It's better than the usual 'bean counter' jibe so I'm relatively happy with it!

 

[Champagneblade]

^^^ This. He looks better when drops back in front of the back four and has more space and time. In the hurly burly of actual central midfield he doesn’t have the same space or time and simply gets played around.

He wasn’t “ bad” on Saturday but his weakness and lack of any pace isn’t going to be enough in this league.

No doubt someone will quiet his completed pass stats but take away the one twos with the centre backs and that figure will drop dramatically.

He’s gradually edging towards that ‘Jan Molly role’.

He can still move around a bit but it’s clearly his weakest point.

With athletes around him we can still get a few years from him though it may be on a rotational basis. Contrary to some of the comments, he isn’t crap defensively, in fact he was near the top of the numbers for being where needed defensively in terms of blocks and tackles. It’s easy to confuse this with him lacking athleticism but to say he is crap defensively isn’t backed up from the past 12 months; his lack of athleticism may well render him less effective at this level, but I think crap is a bit harsh. That would be someone who doesn’t tackle and never gets blocks in, and that’s not Norwood at all.

Because of his positive attributes he’s always going to have a usefulness about him. Nobody can pass like he can in the United squad.

It’s a question of managing him and rotating him smartly.

I don’t recall either McCall or Cowans having any pace. Hopefully he can be like them. I’m not a fan of huge rafts of transfer activity. I feel squad building should be gradual and just because someone isn't a sure-fire pick for 100% of the matches, it doesn’t mean they have lost all usefulness.

Norwood, Souza, McAtee, Davies (when fit) and Hamer is a good 3 from 5 selection with Slimane given time and arguably Coulibaly the same, to grasp the nettle as and when the chance arrives.

 

[Houston_Blade]

he gets older with every game he plays

Without wanting to be pedantic all of our players get older with every game they play.

 

[Ricardo Mantelban]

I think Norwood would be up there with Molby and the like if he played in that era, even now as he slows down. Unfortunately it’s all about pace nowadays.

 

[Sean Thornton]

He’s gradually edging towards that ‘Jan Molly role’.

He can still move around a bit but it’s clearly his weakest point.

With athletes around him we can still get a few years from him though it may be on a rotational basis. Contrary to some of the comments, he isn’t crap defensively, in fact he was near the top of the numbers for being where needed defensively in terms of blocks and tackles. It’s easy to confuse this with him lacking athleticism but to say he is crap defensively isn’t backed up from the past 12 months; his lack of athleticism may well render him less effective at this level, but I think crap is a bit harsh. That would be someone who doesn’t tackle and never gets blocks in, and that’s not Norwood at all.

Because of his positive attributes he’s always going to have a usefulness about him. Nobody can pass like he can in the United squad.

It’s a question of managing him and rotating him smartly.

I don’t recall either McCall or Cowans having any pace. Hopefully he can be like them. I’m not a fan of huge rafts of transfer activity. I feel squad building should be gradual and just because someone isn't a sure-fire pick for 100% of the matches, it doesn’t mean they have lost all usefulness.

Norwood, Souza, McAtee, Davies (when fit) and Hamer is a good 3 from 5 selection with Slimane given time and arguably Coulibaly the same, to grasp the nettle as and when the chance arrives.

You missed the end of last season then when all you give him credit for seemingly deserted him? And he was dropped.

 

[Yewsman]

I do worry that people on here are happy to rely on Davies in our midfield. I am not that optimistic. The comments on him from Everton fans were 100% negative. Hope I'm wrong and obviously the proof will be when he actually plays but I do worry he will not strengthen the team.

 

[sitwell]

I bet Norwood covers more ground, makes more passes, more blocks and more tackles than Hamer or Souza. And hes 93.

 

[Colombia Blade]

I bet Norwood covers more ground, makes more passes, more blocks and more tackles than Hamer or Souza. And hes 93.

Nearly. Based the averages per game so far, Souza has made more tackles, but apart from that correct (no idea about the distance covered mind):



One thing that is concerning me about Norwood is the frequency and accuracy of his long balls. Discounting goalkeepers, Norwood is 6th out of all the players in the top 5 European leagues for unsuccessful long balls, and 2nd if you discount defenders. In the 5 seasons he's played for us before this one, the number of long balls he tries per game has remained fairly consistent (around 10 or 12 per game on average), but his accuracy has steadily declined each season (63% > 58% > 54% > 56% > 49%) and is now 40% (in the Everton game when McBurnie had returned, it was still 40%).

This is also a problem for the team as a whole - the only team that has attempted as many long balls as us per game (61 on average) is Luton. Our success rate from these long balls as a team is 36% (the lowest in the league), meaning time after time we're panicking and just giving the ball back to the opposition to have another go at attacking us which is making us vulnerable. About 30% of these long balls come from Wes and about 20% from Norwood, mainly because with the pace of the Premier League they don't have the time to think of much else to do with it. This is not just Norwood tho, you can see that Hamer has been sucked in to this way of playing as well as he's getting used to the speed of the Prem, as have a lot of the defenders.

I think if you consider Archer, McBurnie, Hamer and McAtee as the first names on the team sheet, then there's only one place left for either Souza or Norwood. It comes down to whether you want someone who will put more tackles in, or someone who will spread the ball around more (even if that means losing possession more often than not)...

 

[Nick Jansky]

I do worry that people on here are happy to rely on Davies in our midfield. I am not that optimistic. The comments on him from Everton fans were 100% negative. Hope I'm wrong and obviously the proof will be when he actually plays but I do worry he will not strengthen the team.

Maybe wait and see what actually happens? Not much point worrying about something that hasn’t yet come to pass.

I also wouldn’t worry too much about what people on here may or may not think. This is a tough one to believe I know, but Hecky doesn’t actually base his decisions on what anyone on here says.

 

[Charlieblade]

Without wanting to be pedantic all of our players get older with every game they play.

It is more noticeable when a player reaches 30 though. In the EPL, the skills decline faster when you compare a player at 30+, against the use of more robust, athletic, pacy players.
It’s a worrying trend for players like Norwood, Egan, Osborn, Basham, Baldock etc.
Yes, there is a case for experience to be included in the squad, but these players can retire from top level football, or move down the pyramid.
The alternative is not one that fans like to contemplate!

 

[FinBlade]

His stats and excels are showing that he does some things kinda well, but I also recon he has been many times involved in defending blunders that have even led to a conceded goal (at Championship level). Every fan and opponent knows how he can be shutdown or at least been shaken enough to take away his best tools. He might not be totally written off just yet, but he ain't getting better either.

 

[Champagneblade]

You missed the end of last season then when all you give him credit for seemingly deserted him? And he was dropped.

That's why we have a squad though.

If he could play like he did for 70% of last season like he did then he'd still be well worth his place in the squad. We have options to rotate players out of form as long as the Shirecliffe Sniper keeps away from midfield!

 

[Houston_Blade]

It is more noticeable when a player reaches 30 though. In the EPL, the skills decline faster when you compare a player at 30+, against the use of more robust, athletic, pacy players.
It’s a worrying trend for players like Norwood, Egan, Osborn, Basham, Baldock etc.
Yes, there is a case for experience to be included in the squad, but these players can retire from top level football, or move down the pyramid.
The alternative is not one that fans like to contemplate!

His pace has definitely been found wanting this season against more athletic players. That's a function of age but he was never quick to start with.

 

[FriethBlade]

Funnily enough I don't think Norwood has done badly so far but i dont think we can play Norwood and Souza at home when we are looking to win matches against 'lesser' teams. With McAtee here I'm guessing that won't happen in future.

 

[Slim Man]

I bet Norwood covers more ground, makes more passes, more blocks and more tackles than Hamer or Souza. And hes 93.

That's the problem.

Our whole team is centered around Ollie and it goes through him. That's not a good thing and we need to change it if we want to stay up.

Hamer and Souza are better players and we need to adjust so they get more of the ball.

 

[sitwell]

His stats and excels are showing that he does some things kinda well, but I also recon he has been many times involved in defending blunders that have even led to a conceded goal (at Championship level). Every fan and opponent knows how he can be shutdown or at least been shaken enough to take away his best tools. He might not be totally written off just yet, but he ain't getting better either.

Name me one goal at championship level conceded down to Norwood because Im struggling.

 

[steve26272]

Nearly. Based the averages per game so far, Souza has made more tackles, but apart from that correct (no idea about the distance covered mind):

View attachment 170512

One thing that is concerning me about Norwood is the frequency and accuracy of his long balls. Discounting goalkeepers, Norwood is 6th out of all the players in the top 5 European leagues for unsuccessful long balls, and 2nd if you discount defenders. In the 5 seasons he's played for us before this one, the number of long balls he tries per game has remained fairly consistent (around 10 or 12 per game on average), but his accuracy has steadily declined each season (63% > 58% > 54% > 56% > 49%) and is now 40% (in the Everton game when McBurnie had returned, it was still 40%).

This is also a problem for the team as a whole - the only team that has attempted as many long balls as us per game (61 on average) is Luton. Our success rate from these long balls as a team is 36% (the lowest in the league), meaning time after time we're panicking and just giving the ball back to the opposition to have another go at attacking us which is making us vulnerable. About 30% of these long balls come from Wes and about 20% from Norwood, mainly because with the pace of the Premier League they don't have the time to think of much else to do with it. This is not just Norwood tho, you can see that Hamer has been sucked in to this way of playing as well as he's getting used to the speed of the Prem, as have a lot of the defenders.

I think if you consider Archer, McBurnie, Hamer and McAtee as the first names on the team sheet, then there's only one place left for either Souza or Norwood. It comes down to whether you want someone who will put more tackles in, or someone who will spread the ball around more (even if that means losing possession more often than not)...

in the interest of balance - sat between Trent & Bruno, I guess he'd take that


2 factors to bear in mind
He is playing against better midfielders, so the amount of time he gets is less, as such his accuracy will go down
The intended target are playing against better defenders, as such the pass will get intercepted more

Whilst acknowledging 60% go awry, be definition 40% create possession in the final 3rd

We have to accept a percentage of turnovers as a risk and reward strategy

 

[Pintor75]

Stats are for the nerds, nobody mentions the times opposition players ran past anyone when they should have tackled, or didn't head a ball when they could have etc

 

[Colombia Blade]

Name me one goal at championship level conceded down to Norwood because Im struggling.

In his entire career with us, he's made only one error that led to a goal. This was in his first season with us for Rotherham's last goal in the 2-2 draw away. Here's the video, not for anything to do with Norwood, but so we can reminisce about how fucking awesome Mark Duffy was for us!



The thing with any player is that once someone has made their mind up about them, they only see the negatives or positives ignoring anything that contradicts their existing view. It's like with McBurnie - I think he's awesome so every time he plays, I pay attention to all the good things he does and can't understand why anyone would criticise him. Other fans don't rate him, so only pay attention when he does something wrong. It's confirmation bias and we all suffer from it.

With Norwood, so many people say he doesn't tackle which is just not true. He's consistently been our highest tackling midfielder yet for those who would prefer a replacement, they just don't see it. Does he tackle every time he makes an attempt? Of course not. No player in the history of the sport has a 100% success rate. With the addition of Souza, Norwood is no longer our best tackling midfielder, but his stats (sorry to be a nerd) so far are still pretty impressive (altho looking back to the 19/20 season we might see a lower rate of tackling going forward into the season)...



For what it's worth, if we're playing Archer and McBurnie up top, and McAtee and Hamer in midfield, I'd prefer Souza over Norwood just for his better defensive work, but I'm not going to write Norwood off just yet as I think he's a different type of player that can add something different to Souza when needed

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

In his entire career with us, he's made only one error that led to a goal. This was in his first season with us for Rotherham's last goal in the 2-2 draw away. Here's the video, not for anything to do with Norwood, but so we can reminisce about how fucking awesome Mark Duffy was for us!



The thing with any player is that once someone has made their mind up about them, they only see the negatives or positives ignoring anything that contradicts their existing view. It's like with McBurnie - I think he's awesome so every time he plays, I pay attention to all the good things he does and can't understand why anyone would criticise him. Other fans don't rate him, so only pay attention when he does something wrong. It's confirmation bias and we all suffer from it.

With Norwood, so many people say he doesn't tackle which is just not true. He's consistently been our highest tackling midfielder yet for those who would prefer a replacement, they just don't see it. Does he tackle every time he makes an attempt? Of course not. No player in the history of the sport has a 100% success rate. With the addition of Souza, Norwood is no longer our best tackling midfielder, but his stats (sorry to be a nerd) so far are still pretty impressive (altho looking back to the 19/20 season we might see a lower rate of tackling going forward into the season)...

View attachment 170552

For what it's worth, if we're playing Archer and McBurnie up top, and McAtee and Hamer in midfield, I'd prefer Souza over Norwood just for his better defensive work, but I'm not going to write Norwood off just yet as I think he's a different type of player that can add something different to Souza when needed

Can't really think of any mistakes to a goal myself but Hull away was a nearly one.

 

[coolasanidiot]

but so we can reminisce about how fucking awesome Mark Duffy was for us!

Duffy was so good- right up there with..

TC/ Sabella/ McGoldrick/ Ndiaye- our truly talented golden boots.

Thanks for posting video- makes me realise that the Prem if once again is a gleeting affair- there is loads of life after that. To watch us attack teams is the best bit- not scrabbling for a draw against the worlds best team.

 

[FinBlade]

Name me one goal at championship level conceded down to Norwood because Im struggling.

Hmm.. I have an faded memory about the Slav season Norwood - Fleck era where he fouled opponent and they scored one the late goals we were giving away..

I was able to see games again starting from that season and Norwood-Fleck duo seemed to do something that gave me sweaty hands multiple times. I was criticizing this at the time, but also tried to stay objective.

I'm not writing Norwood off yet (only seen City game this season anyways) and I'm not a hater by any means. Maybe my mind is a bit set (unfairly) by the history (like Colombia Blade wrote), but I also didn't found much to criticize about him last season.

I can try to find that (or another game) altho I'd be more willing to spend time wathing current games instead of those 2 years back that don't actually matter anymore.

 

[sitwell]

Hmm.. I have an faded memory about the Slav season Norwood - Fleck era where he fouled opponent and they scored one the late goals we were giving away..

I was able to see games again starting from that season and Norwood-Fleck duo seemed to do something that gave me sweaty hands multiple times. I was criticizing this at the time, but also tried to stay objective.

I'm not writing Norwood off yet (only seen City game this season anyways) and I'm not a hater by any means. Maybe my mind is a bit set (unfairly) by the history (like Colombia Blade wrote), but I also didn't found much to criticize about him last season.

I can try to find that (or another game) altho I'd be more willing to spend time wathing current games instead of those 2 years back that don't actually matter anymore.

I think the issues at that time had a lot more to do with Jokanovic than any of the players , he was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

And the year is 2018...

Why can't Slimane or Davies finally start? You know something different from Wilder’s old guard.

 

[FTPE]

And the year is 2018...

Why can't Slimane or Davies finally start? You know something different from Wilder’s old guard.

Have you watched the video and listened to the guys points though?
Souza is good at what we bought him for, breaking up play, but we're asking him to do a lot more and he seems to be struggling. Playing Norwood not only gives him a partner to make interceptions and nick back the ball(which Norwoodwas one of the best at in the Championship), but he's always free and unmarked for a straightforward 10yrd pass, which Souza seems to need.

Playing Norwood gives us an actual leader again, even captain. I'd give it McBurnie or Baldock, but Oli knows the style we want to play and was been a huge part of pulling that style off in the past.

Norwood Playing deep and dictating the tempo and play gives Hamer license to play higher up the pitch. Hamer IS a box to box player but he doesn't win duals very often and is far more impressive further forward.

Slimane and Davies might be long term successors, but right now both seem over weight, slow and short of fitness.

I've been Norwoods biggest critic for years, and nobody is more aware of his faults than me, but at his best, the things we are massively missing at the moment- he can bring to the table when he's at his best.