Kop needs urgent redevelopment

[Sean Thornton]

So that's the gross revenue. What's the build cost? And how much of that extra is net after other costs (eg extra stewarding, increased business rates etc)?

That base calculation doesn’t cover the capital payments for a £20m build on a 20 year mortgage let alone interest. On a 35k attendance over that period.

 

[YES Blade]

I’m not going to waste my time trying to put together costs and ROIs for new stands or stadiums because I haven’t got the relevant information and to do it properly would take weeks.

What I do know is that a good proportion of Championship and Premier League clubs have either built new stands or new stadiums in the last 25 years. Others are building a new stadium (Everton) or are planning a new stadium (Luton).

Are all these clubs wrong? Are they wasting money on improving their stadiums? The fact that numerous clubs have done it or are planning to do it, suggests it’s a good investment.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I’m not going to waste my time trying to put together costs and ROIs for new stands or stadiums because I haven’t got the relevant information and to do it properly would take weeks.

What I do know is that a good proportion of Championship and Premier League clubs have either built new stands or new stadiums in the last 25 years. Others are building a new stadium (Everton) or are planning a new stadium (Luton).

Are all these clubs wrong? Are they wasting money on improving their stadiums? The fact that numerous clubs have done it or are planning to do it, suggests it’s a good investment.

I'd love nothing more than the Kop to be sorted, as a resident on there for the past 20 years (and many more years for the odd visit as a child). I'd guess that every other club though, had a definite need for the extra capacity and/or serious health and safety risks with their existing stand/stadium. I'm not sure we're quite at that point, or if we are we've only just reached it.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I’m not going to waste my time trying to put together costs and ROIs for new stands or stadiums because I haven’t got the relevant information and to do it properly would take weeks.

What I do know is that a good proportion of Championship and Premier League clubs have either built new stands or new stadiums in the last 25 years. Others are building a new stadium (Everton) or are planning a new stadium (Luton).

Are all these clubs wrong? Are they wasting money on improving their stadiums? The fact that numerous clubs have done it or are planning to do it, suggests it’s a good investment.

How many did it during a time when they were cash strapped?

No matter what people try to suggest, no one is against the idea. The point is that as of now, it’s pointless to moan about it not happening now due to our financial position.

Your comment on ROI are obviously spot on, but we’ve seen how some believe it’s easy to show how it pays for its self with absolutely no information whatsoever.

 

[YES Blade]

How many did it during a time when they were cash strapped?

No matter what people try to suggest, no one is against the idea. The point is that as of now, it’s pointless to moan about it not happening now due to our financial position.

Your comment on ROI are obviously spot on, but we’ve seen how some believe it’s easy to show how it pays for its self with absolutely no information whatsoever.

I’m not sure many clubs have invested heavily in their stadium while they had plenty of cash in the bank either. Hopefully our financial issues are short term and with firm plans likely to take a few years, the construction would take place when we’re in a stronger position. Any improvement would need to come from loans anyway so we don’t need to have hundreds of millions in the bank.

I’d just like to see us go down the route of putting plans in place for a stadium we can all be proud of. No more short term cheap “that’ll do” type improvements. Let’s aim for the best and really hammer home our position as the top club in Yorkshire.

 

[reedy63]

The Clubs that are going to a new stadiums or making ground developments have a chairman/board who has the funds to pay for it.
we on there other hand do not. What's the point of making plans to develop Bramall Lane now when they have nowt to pay for it. The kop was changed to as it is now. because it had to be done otherwise the old kop would have been closed.same with the John Street stand.

 

[Keen Blade]

If only we'd built a kop instead of a hotel ...

 

[essex blade]

Any body know how the paint job is progressing !?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Any body know how the paint job is progressing !?

 

[Tom Bott]

But they've gone from 15k gates to nearly 30k and can expand

Have you ever run a business ?

Thought not.

Dreams do not a business make.

Chansiri had a dream...

 

[stringjunior]

They missed a bit

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Bigger but not newer

But they've gone from 15k gates to nearly 30k and can expand

How much will this new stadium you are proposing cost? (Approximately)

 

[Tom Bott]

Others are building a new stadium (Everton)

Would have been bankrupt had they been relegated.

"Should the club be relegated," they said in the report. "These matters indicate that a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt over on the group's ability to continue as a going concern."

But it's not your money so no problem to you.

 

[Tom Bott]

absolutely no information whatsoever

Much of the internet is based on such unfortunately.

 

[blade too long]

Have you ever run a business ?

Thought not.

Dreams do not a business make.

Chansiri had a dream...

What's dreaming about updating looking after the fans that support you. Update or tread water.
Any club needs an environment that suits its ambitions

If your happy being on a 150 year old kop which is a rubble heap that is holding the clubs ambition back ...fine let's tread water and just try and yo yo ...not grow in any way

Fine business strategy

 

[madeinsheffield]

Are there any QS‘s on here? The kop steps were poured on top of the old ones which is on a mountain of rubble, a grab lorry can take approx 18 tonnes or 10 cubic metres, excavating plus digging down to create car park and services would cost millions and take months. Can any one calculate it?

In the long term worth it for the extra revenue and options it would bring but I think it’d take more than a year and where do the fans on the kop go?

 

[YES Blade]

How much will this new stadium you are proposing cost? (Approximately)

Luton’s new stadium is going to cost about £100m and Everton’s is about £670m, so I’d say we’d be looking at a cost somewhere between those figures.

 

[YES Blade]

Are there any QS‘s on here? The kop steps were poured on top of the old ones which is on a mountain of rubble, a grab lorry can take approx 18 tonnes or 10 cubic metres, excavating plus digging down to create car park and services would cost millions and take months. Can any one calculate it?

In the long term worth it for the extra revenue and options it would bring but I think it’d take more than a year and where do the fans on the kop go?

Isn’t the ground also contaminated? So it would cost a fortune to dispose of.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I’m not going to waste my time trying to put together costs and ROIs for new stands or stadiums because I haven’t got the relevant information and to do it properly would take weeks.

What I do know is that a good proportion of Championship and Premier League clubs have either built new stands or new stadiums in the last 25 years. Others are building a new stadium (Everton) or are planning a new stadium (Luton).

Are all these clubs wrong? Are they wasting money on improving their stadiums? The fact that numerous clubs have done it or are planning to do it, suggests it’s a good investment.

Interesting you mention Everton building a new stadium. Widely reported if they'd been relegated they would be financially fucked.
Is this a good model to follow?
We've just survived one financial disaster if we'd failed to be promoted. We now have chance to stabilise, yet you want us to jump straight into a new spending spree?
It's a 'no' from me.

 

[YES Blade]

Interesting you mention Everton building a new stadium. Widely reported if they'd been relegated they would be financially fucked.
Is this a good model to follow?
We've just survived one financial disaster if we'd failed to be promoted. We now have chance to stabilise, yet you want us to jump straight into a new spending spree?
It's a 'no' from me.

Never said I want to jump into a spending spree. I want us to have a long term plan for what we are going to do about our aging, outdated stadium.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

Black Kops matter.

 

[Dkc]

Not sure why you're trying to overcomplicate what is an attempt to create a simple ballpark figure, but let's work on the following assumptions:

a) We have 5,000 season ticket holders on the Kop, it may well be more but let's call it that for simplicity
b) To reflect the improvement in facilities from 30 year old shithole to brand new stand, we can justifiably increase Kop pricing up to what it is in the Westfield/BLUT, I don't have exact figures on what a Kop ST is to hand, but calling it an extra £50/year doesn't seem too far off what the difference is
c) Increasing overall ground capacity by, say, 3,000 (as quoted in previous proposed plans, could theoretically be more but let's use that as a number) would allow us to increase the number of season tickets we can sell by the same. I would imagine this would actually be higher, as I would guess we are keeping more than we need to for pay on the gate that we need to (because nobody in their right mind would buy a season ticket in either shithole corner or with a restricted view, problems which would both go away with a new stand), but that's not necessarily important given the below
d) While we are currently selling out season tickets, both in and out of the Premier League, I would expect increased ST capacity to sell out, but I'll play devil's advocate and say we only actually sell an extra 2,000 of the increased capacity
e) Will use £450 as the new Kop season ticket price. I paid slightly cheaper in Westfield (see b), but that was both a renewal and in first wave, at any other time it is more so call it an average figure and/or factor in inflation by the time the thing actually opens

So for existing let's call it 5,000 x £50, for new let's call it 2,000 x £450, that's £1.15 million a season. Will round it down to £1m to account for using adult pricing given not everyone in the Kop is paying full rate (although I think it's probably more in the Kop percentage wise than other stands). This is using conservative figures for what the current count of season ticket holders is, expected future demand, and completely ignoring pay on the gate support and all other ancillary revenue.

We may differ on what we perceive the current and potential size of our fanbase to be, but I don't think anything I'm saying there is either unreasonable or overly optimistic (if anything, I'd say I'm being excessively cautious)?

Creating extra capacity on the kop wouldn't be too expensive if the existing outdoor walkway could provide the foundation. An extra 3000 seats (or more) could be bolted on to the top of the kop, which would shelter the concourse from the weather.

Potentially the existing roof could be dismantled and re-assembled on a new cantilever structure (similar to the system used on the BL Stand). That might only cost 20 million (wild guess, could be way out).

If the extra capacity is made safe standing, it would hugely add to the atmosphere and certainly make the kop better.

I think the extra capacity would be filled in the PL regardless of s/t sales, especially if we made it easier to buy tickets and pay on the day.

If we stay up this season we qualify for a third year of parachute payments if subsequently relegated, as well as at least one more year of PL money. The club also owns the land on Shoreham St where the car park is now. Could that be sold for housing to fund the kop rebuild?

We could potentially get it done next summer.

 

[Tom Bott]

Fine business strategy

Suggest a rational way to fund it , then maybe some will take you seriously.

Maybe the car park at the back of the 'rubble heap' could be converted to a forest where the club could source and plant 'magic money trees'.

Over on the Wendy forum some are suggesting that the City Council could incorporate a new Stadio de rust around the Ponds Forge redevelopment.

Maybe the City council would also fund redeveloping our stadium ?
You could present your business model to them if you think it bears any scrutiny ?

 

[Tom Bott]

Creating extra capacity on the kop wouldn't be too expensive

How many times last season was the ground sold out to warrant such development ?

 

[Tom Bott]

As the owner of the Sheaf View once told me, people don't come here to admire the architecture.

 

[Dkc]

How many times last season was the ground sold out to warrant such development ?

We weren't in the PL last season. We've averaged near capacity the past times we've been in the PL.

Granted it's something of a gamble because we lose many of the glory hunters/neutrals/tourists if we go down. That's why it should be a cheaper bolt-on. If we aspire to a brand new kop it will never get built.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

The year is 2023 and people are still thinking the club does the kop first before more lucrative options

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Suggest a rational way to fund it , then maybe some will take you seriously.

Maybe the car park at the back of the 'rubble heap' could be converted to a forest where the club could source and plant 'magic money trees'.

Over on the Wendy forum some are suggesting that the City Council could incorporate a new Stadio de rust around the Ponds Forge redevelopment.

Maybe the City council would also fund redeveloping our stadium ?
You could present your business model to them if you think it bears any scrutiny ?

Magic Money Trees could also help fight climate change so it's win win and I'm in.

 

[YES Blade]

The year is 2023 and people are still thinking the club does the kop first before more lucrative options

That is our biggest issue, lack of corporate hospitality. It’s the biggest reason clubs redevelopment their stadiums. Man U are a perfect example, they’ve the biggest capacity stadium in the country but they’ve even looked at completely rebuilding Old Trafford to increase corporate facilities.

If we build a stand which includes more corporate facilities then I’m all for it as long as it’s part of a plan for the whole stadium. We need to stop the short term make do approach we’ve had for decades. The Lane is on a very big site, but bad planning for decades has made it very difficult to build a modern stadium on the site.

 

[Tom Bott]

That's why it should be a cheaper bolt-on. If we aspire to a brand new kop it will never get built.

The current one is a 'cheap' bolt on though..