post-match presser- "I think we need to keep all the players"

[Andy67]

Can't see Fleck, Enda or Osborne being worthwhile to bring back.... Even on the cheap.

No other option

 

[Snowflake]

Osborn’s versatility means that he is able to play in more than one position. Even with promotion to EPL, the club still requires 2 players for every position. I am not so naive to think that the likes of Norwood, Osborn and JLT etc are a good fit for their current position at Prem level. They have two advantages though. We can be aspirational as a development club, but we don’t have the fat cheque book to go out and buy EPL ready replacements and back up squad players who are the right quality for the club, and the prem.

Players like those mentioned do fit the system, they don’t cost huge wages, and they already belong to SUFC. Too many fans seem to think that promotion comes with a licence to print money. It does not. Like any business, growth has to be made organically and at a pace that the football club can survive, and then, thrive. That’s the kind of club we are right now.

For every player we keep, even the essential #2 for every position, we don’t have to pay agents, signing on fees and inflated wage demands, (coz it’s prem innit).

Norwood will probably not make 30+ appearances at PL level as #1 CDM. JLT will not be a direct fit to replace Jack O’Connel. Osborn will be a useful #2 for more than one position. Their best value comes because they are already at the club, they fit a well honed team ethos and they are likely to cost less than spending money the club could better use elsewhere.

The alternative is a return to the days of Wilder’s largesse, which put us in this financial black hole we are in now. Wilder had good ideas and spent too much too soon. He should probably have stabilized us at Prem level first, but as a fan, he believed we could take a short cut using Prem money, and no Covid impacts.

I agree that Osborn is not blessed with great ball skills, Norwood’s game is predictable and aging, JLT still has a mistake in him, but they all bring something different that we will need in a return to the EPL. Hecky’s job is hard enough already, without us expecting too much too soon. He has bigger problems than fans with different opinions, like keeping hold of Ndiaye, Ahmedhodzic and Berge!

Spot on. So many want to cast aside several players without any notion of how to replace them or at what cost.
If we can bring in 5 players who are better than the “top” 18 in the squad then I think we will have achieved all we can realistically expect in this window.
That would involve only one or two current squad members not being involved, not wholesale dismissals.

 

[Snowflake]

No other option

There are always other options. Each position and those that can play in it need to be assessed, but as a start the LWB has three squad members at present so one could go.

 

[Andy67]

Hecky and the team will only be polite regarding any squad plans ATM. I cant truly believe that players like Fleck and Sharp will be seen as premier league ready in 2023. Unlike others I think we will have more then enough cash to make some high quality additions to the squad. I remember in 2019 when we last got promoted that people were in a frenzy thinking we had fuck all cash and we had to brace for the storm ahead. We then proceeded to spend 10s of millions of pounds on the team within the summer window. The only thing I can see halting positive developments ATM is the multitude of takeover sagas. UTB

How much money do you think?

 

[TopBoy]

Bloody hell. Reading this thread anybody would think we've just been relegated and have to cut our cloth accordingly by keeping cheaper players and selling our best. We've just got promoted to the richest league in the world and as such will be a very attractive proposition for the majority of up-and-coming players both in the UK and Europe. Going with Sharp, Stevens, and Osborn isn't the solution here.

 

[Andy67]

If that is genuinely the case we have to think about who we really are and I wouldn't be afraid to sell and say the reason to the media. I wouldn't want bad blood between him and us but we have to be realistic, he isn't a proven Premier League player. If we shifted him for £20million we could easily bring in a player with a similar position with European top division experience. It would be disappointing to lose him but I wouldn't think twice about it if cash was on the table.

What makes you believe 20 million would be spent on an individual player or even the entire amount of money that is spent?

 

[Andy67]

Bloody hell. Reading this thread anybody would think we've just been relegated and have to cut our cloth accordingly by keeping cheaper players and selling our best. We've just got promoted to the richest league in the world and as such will be a very attractive proposition for the majority of up-and-coming players both in the UK and Europe. Going with Sharp, Stevens, and Osborn isn't the solution here.

In theory yes, in reality no.

 

[Andy67]

Who

To be honest, I’ll be annoyed if Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Norwood and Osborne are offered new contracts. Nothing against them personally, been great servants but we must now build a new and younger side. If they offer say £10k to £20k a week to each, we’re talking at least £100k a week that could be used on two quality players. May be harsh but I don’t want to go to matches watching a slow midfield being overrun every week. We’re not a charity, there should be no sentiment, we need to freshen up the squad. To be honest as well, I hate to see players who have been great in the past, whose legs have now gone. You start to forget the good times they’ve given us, I don’t want that to happen.

Who will you be annoyed at?

 

[PaulHalfway]

I would keep Billy and Osborn for one more year tbh if the likelihood is we don’t have much money and won’t be able to bring loads of new faces in

Billy because we might have several games where we are still in them with 10 mins to go and we need a goal and Ozzy because well, we are going to be behind the ball for lots of games in the prem in terms of possession and we are going to need guys off the bench who can run their arses off in that scenario

Can everyone please accept Billy is 37, only scored 3 goals this season, missed loads of decent chances in the last 2 years, not even Championship standard anymore
Why on earth do people think he is suddenly going to score goals in the PL, I just don’t get it.
Give the salary cash to try and keep Iliman

 

[Andy67]

It's nothing to do with respect or disrespect, whichever way you want to put it. It's about being realistic and giving us the best chance to survive in the top league.

Take those Rose tinted promotion glasses off and think back over the season to the form and performances of the likes of Sharp, Fleck, Norwood, Stevens and Osborn and let's have it right, they have been bang average at best, poor a lot of the time....thank goodness Hecky realised that too and went with Doyle and Mcatee otherwise we would almost certainly be in the play offs.

If we can pick up better replacements we have to be ruthless....that extends to others as well.

That is the task but you don’t get rid of before you find a replacement.

 

[Andy67]

Can everyone please accept Billy is 37, only scored 3 goals this season, missed loads of decent chances in the last 2 years, not even Championship standard anymore
Why on earth do people think he is suddenly going to score goals in the PL, I just don’t get it.
Give the salary cash to try and keep Iliman

I’m not sure anybody does.

 

[Nah den]

We shouldn't be offering extensions to the likes of Fleck, Enda, Billy etc. They have been good servants but just don't possess the mobility required for the Championship let alone the PL. The midfield is of particular concern. We need proper athletes in there. During our last relegation it was obvious we didn't have players that could compete physically.

Even if we're not splashing loads on fees (I think we will spend on fees), just replacing the wages of the three mentioned above should get us younger, big/quick players who would jump at the chance to play in the PL.

 

[Brownieblade]

Can everyone please accept Billy is 37, only scored 3 goals this season, missed loads of decent chances in the last 2 years, not even Championship standard anymore
Why on earth do people think he is suddenly going to score goals in the PL, I just don’t get it.
Give the salary cash to try and keep Iliman

I don’t think he is going to score a boat load, I’m talking bringing on a option last 10 mins when we need results who might snatch a chance when we lump it into box hoping something falls

Zero reason why you can’t carry that option on the bench for one more year compared to buying 2 strikers at plus 15 million etc

 

[Hackey Blade]

I don’t think he is going to score a boat load, I’m talking bringing on a option last 10 mins when we need results who might snatch a chance when we lump it into box hoping something falls

Zero reason why you can’t carry that option on the bench for one more year compared to buying 2 strikers at plus 15 million etc

How many has he scored this season in the championship when we've brought him on and lumped it into the box hoping something happened?

 

[S40BLADE]

How much money do you think?

 

[Brownieblade]

How many has he scored this season in the championship when we've brought him on and lumped it into the box hoping something happened?

We aren’t in Championship anymore and out of the strikers we currently have he is still our best natural goal poacher

If we go up and have forest like changes and money to throw then fine

If we don’t then good luck trying to find naturally better with the limited money you have to sit on the bench and bring on if we need goals

Because we aren’t talking about starting strikers here

 

[Smirth]

I'm taking anything that gets said at the moment with a huge pinch of salt. The owner is actively looking to sell the club, that means any plans will likely be ripped up and thrown out the window once a new owner arrives. Timing wise it's awful, but we don't have any control over it.

In an ideal world this takeover will be completed before we have to announce the retained list, but it's very unlikely. Hecky will know what his budget is if a takeover doesn't go through and that is what he will have to work to, therefore being hasty and letting go the out of contract players is a risk if he knows he has no budget to bring in replacements. It's not what we want to hear as fans as going into the Premier League and giving out new contracts to Sharp, Fleck, Osborn etc is very uninspiring, but the alternative is not signing them and having to supplement the squad with academy players who have zero experience.

A takeover is vital, the pressure is eased by promotion and the cash injection it brings, but for the long term sustainability of the club we need this takeover to work. We have an ageing squad which is in dire need of refreshing in key positions, even if the strategy is that we expect to go down so we don't overstretch ourselves, the squad needs refreshing with players now for that to work as if we go down with the same squad we go up with, promotion back to the Premier League will be very difficult.

 

[FriethBlade]

There is no way the likes of Stevens, Fleck and Sharp should be getting another contact. How much a week do you think that will be in spunked wages? The first two are forever injured and even when not they are too slow and ponderous for the championship never mind the premier league.

We need to go shopping in the other 3 leagues and Scotland and bring in some good, young players with something to prove who we can develop. Their wages will be lower than those we release and their potential resale way higher.

We were all surprised by how much we spent last time we came up and we will be surprised again.

 

[Champagneblade]

I think it's likely to be a mix of both, we'll likely keep half the old guard and there will be a few fond farewells. Unless a miracle happens and we're sold to an owner who fancies splashing the cash on 4 weeks, we're going to have a very limited budget.

Being pragmatic and trying to read between the lines I think we'll have 5 or 6 new faces, 3 loans, 2/3 permanents, maybe £20m available for transfers. Basham, Norwood, Fleck and Osbourne all sticking around for cover, with Stevens & O'Connell gone, Sharp I'm not sure on.

New GK
Egan
Anel
New LCB
Baldock
New LWB
Berge
New CM
New CM
Ndiaye
McBurnie

Considering the noise coming out of the management and PA, if we expect much more than that we'll be disappointed, they've certainly set their stall out early to manage expectations. Whether we think we should spend or not, it doesn't matter, if that's all that's available, that's what we go with.

I reckon something like this or variation is realistic, if not perhaps a little underwhelming, in terms of spend:
Kelleher, Liverpool (loan)
Manning, Swansea (free)
Maitland-Niles, Arsenal (free)
Doyle Man City (12m)
McAtee Man City (loan)
Ogbene, Rotherham (free) / Redmond, Besiktas (free) / Stewart, Sunderland (free)

If we got Redmond back from Turkey I think he could give us McGoldrick vibes! Steward also has undeniably encouraging stats as an alternative.

You have your highly rated keeper who just needs a chance, similar to Henderson and Ramsdale.

If you let Rhys focus on LCB then Manning is free and has decent numbers.

Maitland-Niles could deputies at RCB, could cover Baldock and could offer another defensive midfield option.

Doyle and McAtee self-explanatory.

Cost conscious at least and not unrealistic I don't feel. Spend more and you can improve upon a couple.

 

[Nah den]

I reckon something like this or variation is realistic, if not perhaps a little underwhelming, in terms of spend:
Kelleher, Liverpool (loan)
Manning, Swansea (free)
Maitland-Niles, Arsenal (free)
Doyle Man City (12m)
McAtee Man City (loan)
Ogbene, Rotherham (free) / Redmond, Besiktas (free) / Stewart, Sunderland (free)

If we got Redmond back from Turkey I think he could give us McGoldrick vibes! Steward also has undeniably encouraging stats as an alternative.

You have your highly rated keeper who just needs a chance, similar to Henderson and Ramsdale.

If you let Rhys focus on LCB then Manning is free and has decent numbers.

Maitland-Niles could deputies at RCB, could cover Baldock and could offer another defensive midfield option.

Doyle and McAtee self-explanatory.

Cost conscious at least and not unrealistic I don't feel. Spend more and you can improve upon a couple.

Wouldn't mind this at all.

I'd also add some big shithouse athletes too. Hecky should go down to Team GB headquarters and offer contracts to the men's 4x400 relay team, irrespective of footballing ability.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Even though I wouldn't be giving many new contracts out, I can see why Sharp and maybe Fleck would be given a year.

But Stevens? He's contributed nothing for 2 years so that would be bizarre.

 

[Stu_Blade]

What makes you believe 20 million would be spent on an individual player or even the entire amount of money that is spent?

No physical evidence, based on last time signings we were happy to spend near on that amount 3 times. It might be different this time with a more cautious approach or under a different owner (big if) completely different. Alot has changed since the 2006 days when single digits million would get you a 20 season Championship goal scorer.

 

[themaninblack]

Wouldn't mind this at all.

I'd also add some big shithouse athletes too. Hecky should go down to Team GB headquarters and offer contracts to the men's 4x400 relay team, irrespective of footballing ability.

Oli Burke sends hugs

 

[Andy67]

Which championship goal scorer can you get for less than 10 m now? Who would that player replace? What has this player done over the last few years that you believe would improve our current forwards?

 

[Andy67]

I reckon something like this or variation is realistic, if not perhaps a little underwhelming, in terms of spend:
Kelleher, Liverpool (loan)
Manning, Swansea (free)
Maitland-Niles, Arsenal (free)
Doyle Man City (12m)
McAtee Man City (loan)
Ogbene, Rotherham (free) / Redmond, Besiktas (free) / Stewart, Sunderland (free)

If we got Redmond back from Turkey I think he could give us McGoldrick vibes! Steward also has undeniably encouraging stats as an alternative.

You have your highly rated keeper who just needs a chance, similar to Henderson and Ramsdale.

If you let Rhys focus on LCB then Manning is free and has decent numbers.

Maitland-Niles could deputies at RCB, could cover Baldock and could offer another defensive midfield option.

Doyle and McAtee self-explanatory.

Cost conscious at least and not unrealistic I don't feel. Spend more and you can improve upon a couple.

If Man City want 12 million we will not be able to afford him or we would need to sell.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

If Man City want 12 million we will not be able to afford him or we would need to sell.

How do you know our budget and finances andy?

 

[TopBoy]

If Man City want 12 million we will not be able to afford him or we would need to sell.

James Garner went for £9M from Man Utd to Everton (via the Forest loan), and I think Doyle is of a similar stature. If we can't afford to spend this kind of figure to plug the gaping hole in our midfield then we will challenge Derby for the record low points total.

 

[Andy67]

Wouldn't mind this at all.

I'd also add some big shithouse athletes too. Hecky should go down to Team GB headquarters and offer contracts to the men's 4x400 relay team, irrespective of footballing ability.

Best post today (apart from mine) and probably necessary too.

 

[Andy67]

James Garner went for £9M from Man Utd to Everton (via the Forest loan), and I think Doyle is of a similar stature. If we can't afford to spend this kind of figure to plug the gaping hole in our midfield then we will challenge Derby for the record low points total.

Sorry such is life.

 

[Andy67]

Oli Burke sends hugs

Not that desperate but similar pace but more end product please