post-match presser- "I think we need to keep all the players"

[JackSUFC]

I wouldn't have thought he'd want to come out and say certain players are leaving when 1 - they're all on a high from winning promotion and 2 - there's two games left to play.

 

[Hillsboro Blade]

To be honest, I’ll be annoyed if Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Norwood and Osborne are offered new contracts. Nothing against them personally, been great servants but we must now build a new and younger side. If they offer say £10k to £20k a week to each, we’re talking at least £100k a week that could be used on two quality players. May be harsh but I don’t want to go to matches watching a slow midfield being overrun every week. We’re not a charity, there should be no sentiment, we need to freshen up the squad. To be honest as well, I hate to see players who have been great in the past, whose legs have now gone. You start to forget the good times they’ve given us, I don’t want that to happen.

 

[Cruyff Turn]

Put it this way , if we are keeping any of them , who have been tremendous in the past, the 4 or 5 we bring in need to be Pele , Messi, Maradonna and Cruyff and Beckenbauer to have a fukin chance

Pele, Maradona and Cruyff are all dead. Seems unfair to include them in the 25!!! Unnecessary pressure!

 

[Wizard]

We're likely to have a better record this year than we did last time we got promoted and that didn't go too badly with a lot of the same players stepping up well in the premier league.

The players we then signed who went on to have a major impact for us were Mousset, McBurnie and Henderson and you could argue Lundstram was almost like a new signing considering how little he'd featured before. So that's 3/4 new players making a big contribution with Jags, Besic, Osborn, Robinson, Berge also featuring.

We did the double over Fulham last year and they've gone on to have a good year with their impactful additions being Leno, Diop, Palhinha, Pereira and Willian.

If we do good business and get in 4 players who take a spot in our best eleven with a couple who contribute well from the bench that could well be enough.

 

[bakeblade]

I genuinely don't think he cares about money. If reports are true, he earns a lot less than the rest of the first team squad at the moment. If money was a driver he could have joined Everton on someone else. In fairness, if he simply wants to move up in the world, going to somewhere like Villa/Palace/Brighton/West Ham makes sense. To a team where he can break into the first team but one with a number of similarly talented players around him. I suspect he'll move if a good offer comes in and stay if it doesn't. I don't think for one second he'll sign a new contract which extends his stay here. He'd be foolish to do so, imo.

There is a slight danger for him in this approach. Picking up an injury or a plummet in form.

I don't think he'd be foolish to sign a new contract, if we offer him a guaranteed buy out after one season of say 20 million regardless of relegation or staying up.
He then gets a big payrise and flexibility for his future.
We get him for another season and get a decent price for him.

 

[Shawy24]

My response would be to question whether it's player decline or the fact he played every minute of every game and had the best stats in the league? He's 32. It may have just been fatigue? He was good yesterday. Seems back to form after a rest. There wasn't much between him and Doyle yesterday.

I don't think he's a nailed on first teamer next season but I'd be surprised if he didn't feature in most games.

Apart from his movement off the ball throughout the game his tracking and tackling back and clever distribution, yep just a paper between them.

 

[crazyblade1889]

Some big disrespect being shown to players who have just got us promotion to the Prem. Forest have shown that wholesale changes doesn’t work as the team doesn’t have time to gel. The identity of the team needs to be kept with players who understand the culture and won’t let standards drop. Norwood, Fleck, Basham, Sharp and Robinson have all played roles in getting us up and have previously shown themselves capable of playing at that level. They should all be offered contract extensions. I don’t expect any of them to start but they can all play important cameos. We then look to add real quality to the first 11.

 

[Charlieblade]

When you mention Osborn's versatility, do you mean he's able to play terribly and run round like a headless chicken in several positions?

He's not on a small wage and it will likely increase of PH is mad enough to think he's good enough to play at Prem level.

There are many, many better options available for what he'd cost, although I have a horrible feeling he'll still be asst the club next season.

Osborn’s versatility means that he is able to play in more than one position. Even with promotion to EPL, the club still requires 2 players for every position. I am not so naive to think that the likes of Norwood, Osborn and JLT etc are a good fit for their current position at Prem level. They have two advantages though. We can be aspirational as a development club, but we don’t have the fat cheque book to go out and buy EPL ready replacements and back up squad players who are the right quality for the club, and the prem.

Players like those mentioned do fit the system, they don’t cost huge wages, and they already belong to SUFC. Too many fans seem to think that promotion comes with a licence to print money. It does not. Like any business, growth has to be made organically and at a pace that the football club can survive, and then, thrive. That’s the kind of club we are right now.

For every player we keep, even the essential #2 for every position, we don’t have to pay agents, signing on fees and inflated wage demands, (coz it’s prem innit).

Norwood will probably not make 30+ appearances at PL level as #1 CDM. JLT will not be a direct fit to replace Jack O’Connel. Osborn will be a useful #2 for more than one position. Their best value comes because they are already at the club, they fit a well honed team ethos and they are likely to cost less than spending money the club could better use elsewhere.

The alternative is a return to the days of Wilder’s largesse, which put us in this financial black hole we are in now. Wilder had good ideas and spent too much too soon. He should probably have stabilized us at Prem level first, but as a fan, he believed we could take a short cut using Prem money, and no Covid impacts.

I agree that Osborn is not blessed with great ball skills, Norwood’s game is predictable and aging, JLT still has a mistake in him, but they all bring something different that we will need in a return to the EPL. Hecky’s job is hard enough already, without us expecting too much too soon. He has bigger problems than fans with different opinions, like keeping hold of Ndiaye, Ahmedhodzic and Berge!

 

[crazyblade1889]

Osborn’s versatility means that he is able to play in more than one position. Even with promotion to EPL, the club still requires 2 players for every position. I am not so naive to think that the likes of Norwood, Osborn and JLT etc are a good fit for their current position at Prem level. They have two advantages though. We can be aspirational as a development club, but we don’t have the fat cheque book to go out and buy EPL ready replacements and back up squad players who are the right quality for the club, and the prem.

Players like those mentioned do fit the system, they don’t cost huge wages, and they already belong to SUFC. Too many fans seem to think that promotion comes with a licence to print money. It does not. Like any business, growth has to be made organically and at a pace that the football club can survive, and then, thrive. That’s the kind of club we are right now.

For every player we keep, even the essential #2 for every position, we don’t have to pay agents, signing on fees and inflated wage demands, (coz it’s prem innit).

Norwood will probably not make 30+ appearances at PL level as #1 CDM. JLT will not be a direct fit to replace Jack O’Connel. Osborn will be a useful #2 for more than one position. Their best value comes because they are already at the club, they fit a well honed team ethos and they are likely to cost less than spending money the club could better use elsewhere.

The alternative is a return to the days of Wilder’s largesse, which put us in this financial black hole we are in now. Wilder had good ideas and spent too much too soon. He should probably have stabilized us at Prem level first, but as a fan, he believed we could take a short cut using Prem money, and no Covid impacts.

I agree that Osborn is not blessed with great ball skills, Norwood’s game is predictable and aging, JLT still has a mistake in him, but they all bring something different that we will need in a return to the EPL. Hecky’s job is hard enough already, without us expecting too much too soon. He has bigger problems than fans with different opinions, like keeping hold of Ndiaye, Ahmedhodzic and Berge!

Agree completely. Also add to that list Billy Sharp, John Fleck and if he can get himself fit Enda Stevens. We’re already going to have to replace the lads we are losing on loan. We started with 4. Plus I expect Jack OConnell to leave. So that’s 5 players to replace just to get back to where we were at the start of this season. Given the intensity of the prem and how we’ve struggled with injuries we need a few extra bodies, and then players like Illy and Sander might not all stay. So Heckys attitude is absolutely spot on we don’t let anyone out of the door until we have adequate replacements. Especially not players like Billy Sharp and John Fleck who would die for the shirt and have played big roles this season. Fans need to be more respectful to these players. Some of the comments on here are a disgrace.

 

[Torrix1889]

It's nothing to do with respect or disrespect, whichever way you want to put it. It's about being realistic and giving us the best chance to survive in the top league.

Take those Rose tinted promotion glasses off and think back over the season to the form and performances of the likes of Sharp, Fleck, Norwood, Stevens and Osborn and let's have it right, they have been bang average at best, poor a lot of the time....thank goodness Hecky realised that too and went with Doyle and Mcatee otherwise we would almost certainly be in the play offs.

If we can pick up better replacements we have to be ruthless....that extends to others as well.

 

[Sheffsteel]

To be honest, I’ll be annoyed if Fleck, Stevens, Sharp, Norwood and Osborne are offered new contracts. Nothing against them personally, been great servants but we must now build a new and younger side. If they offer say £10k to £20k a week to each, we’re talking at least £100k a week that could be used on two quality players. May be harsh but I don’t want to go to matches watching a slow midfield being overrun every week. We’re not a charity, there should be no sentiment, we need to freshen up the squad. To be honest as well, I hate to see players who have been great in the past, whose legs have now gone. You start to forget the good times they’ve given us, I don’t want that to happen.

You have nothing to worry about. They aren't being given new contracts.

It was just manager speak, downplaying expectation and blowing smoke up the players arses by saying "I'd love to keep them all and give them all new contracts"
He's hardly going to say there could be big changes next season with a few leaving when those same players still have 2 matches to play.

 

[Brownieblade]

I would keep Billy and Osborn for one more year tbh if the likelihood is we don’t have much money and won’t be able to bring loads of new faces in

Billy because we might have several games where we are still in them with 10 mins to go and we need a goal and Ozzy because well, we are going to be behind the ball for lots of games in the prem in terms of possession and we are going to need guys off the bench who can run their arses off in that scenario

 

[crazyblade1889]

It's nothing to do with respect or disrespect, whichever way you want to put it. It's about being realistic and giving us the best chance to survive in the top league.

Take those Rose tinted promotion glasses off and think back over the season to the form and performances of the likes of Sharp, Fleck, Norwood, Stevens and Osborn and let's have it right, they have been bang average at best, poor a lot of the time....thank goodness Hecky realised that too and went with Doyle and Mcatee otherwise we would almost certainly be in the play offs.

If we can pick up better replacements we have to be ruthless....that extends to others as well.

Nonsense. Norwood had the best stats out of any midfielder for the first half of the season. Fleck recently played against City at Wembley and didn’t look out of place. As for Sharp he may not have scored as many goals as he would have liked but has led the line brilliantly. His work rate and closing and mobility at the top of the pitch is far superior to Mcburnies. They have had all had plenty of minutes in this promotion winning team to earn a new contract. Then there’s the influence they have on the lads coming in. They won’t let standards drop.

 

[Charlieblade]

It's nothing to do with respect or disrespect, whichever way you want to put it. It's about being realistic and giving us the best chance to survive in the top league.

Take those Rose tinted promotion glasses off and think back over the season to the form and performances of the likes of Sharp, Fleck, Norwood, Stevens and Osborn and let's have it right, they have been bang average at best, poor a lot of the time....thank goodness Hecky realised that too and went with Doyle and Mcatee otherwise we would almost certainly be in the play offs.

If we can pick up better replacements we have to be ruthless....that extends to others as well.

You, and they, might just find that ‘bang average’ is all the money PH is allowed to spend.
When the Prince decides to give PH a crap budget for player acquisitions, Hecky will realise that he can probably afford Doyle and no one else.

 

[buddy]

Nonsense. Norwood had the best stats out of any midfielder for the first half of the season. Fleck recently played against City at Wembley and didn’t look out of place. As for Sharp he may not have scored as many goals as he would have liked but has led the line brilliantly. His work rate and closing and mobility at the top of the pitch is far superior to Mcburnies. They have had all had plenty of minutes in this promotion winning team to earn a new contract. Then there’s the influence they have on the lads coming in. They won’t let standards drop.

Not them fukin stats again !

 

[ATL Recs]

Pure speculation, but reading between the lines, PH may have to accept that the 5/6 players will be those in the current squad who need contract renewal.

It’s been done before when Ndiaye was described as a great new signing!

I agree with most fans that some have to move on, and PH probably has to accept that, however reluctantly that might be.
The only player retention where I disagree with supporters would be Osborn. Given the likely financial constraints, I would keep Osborn due to his age and versatility.

I’m sure that management and ownership will have done their sums for different scenarios, but I expect PA to be hard line on money, and PH will be left with no choice but to accept it. That’s why he got a 5 year contract in the first place.
The Prince probably didn’t expect to be discussing this with Blades in the EPL!

The meaning of versatility- running round aka rabbit in the headlights

 

[ATL Recs]

On the one hand, it’s blatantly obviously this squad would finish in the relegation zone, and most likely not even be competitive.

On the flip side, both times we’ve been promoted our signings have been absolutely dreadful. Seriously, if someone can be bothered to compile a list of signings from 2007 and 2019, I’d like to see the hit/miss ratio!

We’ve actually made better signings has a championship team than a premier league team…

That’s arguably because home grown young Premiership standard players are too expensive
Look at the ones we missed under Wilder due to other clubs offering better wages - all still in the Premiership

 

[crazyblade1889]

The meaning of versatility- running round aka rabbit in the headlights

You don’t play 300+ games at championship level and higher if that’s all you do. Show some respect.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Osborn’s versatility means that he is able to play in more than one position. Even with promotion to EPL, the club still requires 2 players for every position. I am not so naive to think that the likes of Norwood, Osborn and JLT etc are a good fit for their current position at Prem level. They have two advantages though. We can be aspirational as a development club, but we don’t have the fat cheque book to go out and buy EPL ready replacements and back up squad players who are the right quality for the club, and the prem.

Players like those mentioned do fit the system, they don’t cost huge wages, and they already belong to SUFC. Too many fans seem to think that promotion comes with a licence to print money. It does not. Like any business, growth has to be made organically and at a pace that the football club can survive, and then, thrive. That’s the kind of club we are right now.

For every player we keep, even the essential #2 for every position, we don’t have to pay agents, signing on fees and inflated wage demands, (coz it’s prem innit).

Norwood will probably not make 30+ appearances at PL level as #1 CDM. JLT will not be a direct fit to replace Jack O’Connel. Osborn will be a useful #2 for more than one position. Their best value comes because they are already at the club, they fit a well honed team ethos and they are likely to cost less than spending money the club could better use elsewhere.

The alternative is a return to the days of Wilder’s largesse, which put us in this financial black hole we are in now. Wilder had good ideas and spent too much too soon. He should probably have stabilized us at Prem level first, but as a fan, he believed we could take a short cut using Prem money, and no Covid impacts.

I agree that Osborn is not blessed with great ball skills, Norwood’s game is predictable and aging, JLT still has a mistake in him, but they all bring something different that we will need in a return to the EPL. Hecky’s job is hard enough already, without us expecting too much too soon. He has bigger problems than fans with different opinions, like keeping hold of Ndiaye, Ahmedhodzic and Berge!

Thanks Charlie - I am familiar with the definition of a utility player.
Where you and I disagree it appears though is the our assessment of the players' you mention respective ability levels. IMHO and to put it plainly, if Robinson, Stevens, Fleck and particularly Osborn play games next season, they'll cost Utd points - Stevens and Fleck have been impacted by their respective injuries and Robinson and Osborn are lower Champ level (at best).
Age has finally caught up with Sharp (how many do you think he'd score next season?) so he hopefully has a decision whether to move (Derby?) to carry on playing or stay and take up a coaching role.
The only one I'd offer terms to would be Norwood. For a long time he's been central to how and how well Utd play and probably has something to offer next season (helped massively if he has some protection in central midfield and the opposition don't press him when he's in possession) but Doyle and Berge have shown in recent weeks that he's not irreplaceable.
I'm not sure how much you think the players you mention are paid but I can assure you they would not be cheap options next season and far better options would be available for the money.

 

[Westran]

I think it's likely to be a mix of both, we'll likely keep half the old guard and there will be a few fond farewells. Unless a miracle happens and we're sold to an owner who fancies splashing the cash on 4 weeks, we're going to have a very limited budget.

Being pragmatic and trying to read between the lines I think we'll have 5 or 6 new faces, 3 loans, 2/3 permanents, maybe £20m available for transfers. Basham, Norwood, Fleck and Osbourne all sticking around for cover, with Stevens & O'Connell gone, Sharp I'm not sure on.

New GK
Egan
Anel
New LCB
Baldock
New LWB
Berge
New CM
New CM
Ndiaye
McBurnie

Considering the noise coming out of the management and PA, if we expect much more than that we'll be disappointed, they've certainly set their stall out early to manage expectations. Whether we think we should spend or not, it doesn't matter, if that's all that's available, that's what we go with.

 

[Torrix1889]

Nonsense. Norwood had the best stats out of any midfielder for the first half of the season. Fleck recently played against City at Wembley and didn’t look out of place. As for Sharp he may not have scored as many goals as he would have liked but has led the line brilliantly. His work rate and closing and mobility at the top of the pitch is far superior to Mcburnies. They have had all had plenty of minutes in this promotion winning team to earn a new contract. Then there’s the influence they have on the lads coming in. They won’t let standards drop.

So if Norwoods stats were so brilliant, why was he dropped for the run-in? Fleck only played at Wembley, (against a City team that didn't get out of first gear) because the loanees couldn’t. Billy is a legend but to think he could do a job at 38 in the Prem is laughable.

If you are happy for a swift return to the Championship then I agree, let's give 3 players with a combined age of 101 new contracts....

 

[buddy]

So if Norwoods stats were so brilliant, why was he dropped for the run-in? Fleck only played at Wembley, (against a City team that didn't get out of first gear) because the loanees couldn’t. Billy is a legend but to think he could do a job at 38 in the Prem is laughable.

If you are happy for a swift return to the Championship then I agree, let's give 3 players with a combined age of 101 new contracts....

Any player who takes corners and free kicks and has lots of the ball is bound to have good stats, it dont mean hes done owt good, Barrnob Bannen will have fukin good stars . Its probably people like Clit on Morrison who count all these back and sideways touches as well

 

[crazyblade1889]

So if Norwoods stats were so brilliant, why was he dropped for the run-in? Fleck only played at Wembley, (against a City team that didn't get out of first gear) because the loanees couldn’t. Billy is a legend but to think he could do a job at 38 in the Prem is laughable.

If you are happy for a swift return to the Championship then I agree, let's give 3 players with a combined age of 101 new contracts....

How have Forest got on who made big changes compared to Bournemouth and Fulham?

Fulham brought in quality to strengthen their 1st 11. They haven’t made wholesale changes. That approach doesn’t work.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating starting Sharp. We need to sign a striker or 2 the 1st 11 but let’s not do what Forest did and sign players for cover who will then sit in the reserves

 

[Booker4]

You have nothing to worry about. They aren't being given new contracts.

It was just manager speak, downplaying expectation and blowing smoke up the players arses by saying "I'd love to keep them all and give them all new contracts"
He's hardly going to say there could be big changes next season with a few leaving when those same players still have 2 matches to play.

That's fair point and maybe you're right but at the same time I would hope we'll release those on the fringes who are no longer good enough and/or injury prone. Fleck, Osborn, Stevens and Fleck as much as they've contributed to United over the last 4 or so seasons, we need to be replacing those with new players. I thought Bash would also be released given he's 34 but I suspect he'll be given a new contract. I could actually see Bash doing a job for a year in fairness as cover, but that relies on Anel being fit.

 

[Silent Blade]

That's fair point and maybe you're right but at the same time I would hope we'll release those on the fringes who are no longer good enough and/or injury prone. Fleck, Osborn, Stevens and Fleck as much as they've contributed to United over the last 4 or so seasons, we need to be replacing those with new players. I thought Bash would also be released given he's 34 but I suspect he'll be given a new contract. I could actually see Bash doing a job for a year in fairness as cover, but that relies on Anel being fit.

Bash's contract expires in 2024 not this summer

 

[Booker4]

Bash's contract expires in 2024 not this summer

Oh right, didn't know that. He'll be staying whatever then, fair enough.

 

[Charlieblade]

It’s a starting point for PH to negotiate with the Prince. PH says he want to keep everyone, and the Prince starts by saying no player budget for new signings.
They meet somewhere in the middle, where Hecky is prepared to let Fleck, Stevens and a few others go, to get a few crumbs for new signings, and the Prince agrees a few million for signings.
They both have to start somewhere.

The only difference is my opinion v others, who obviously see things differently.

Let’s not forget, this situation is new to both of them. They are playing a game based on limited experience, and poor poker hands.

It comes down to what the Prince has, and what Hecky is holding, and whose opinion is right?
Knowing the blades history, we’re probably all wrong.

 

[Booker4]

The main bit that worries/annoys me is the lack of clarity that Hecky has. He's had to put up with that for months as it stands and the embarrassment of the situation and prior to that Henry Mauriss. More importantly this is really going to damage the recruitment plans as he needs to know where he stands now not in a months time. At least getting promoted early will in theory help; I say in theory because with the uncertainty of the takeover - will it or won't it happen scenario lingering, the benefit of getting promoted and knowing what division you're in to plan is negated by the ongoing uncertainty due to ownership and lack of budget clarity.

Maybe there's certain deals we can work on anyway; i.e. those that are affordable/out of contract on players that we know we want even if we did have a bigger budget, but I would imagine there won't be many if any of those.

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

Players we definitely don’t need to keep:

Osborn
Davies
Fleck
O’Connell
Stevens

Players that if we keep should be bench at best and not all at the same time:

Norwood
Basham
Sharp
Robinson

Players I’m not sure about and have doubts at PL level:

Lowe
Bogle
McBurnie
Coulibaly
Wes
Egan

 

[bakeblade]

Thanks Charlie - I am familiar with the definition of a utility player.
Where you and I disagree it appears though is the our assessment of the players' you mention respective ability levels. IMHO and to put it plainly, if Robinson, Stevens, Fleck and particularly Osborn play games next season, they'll cost Utd points - Stevens and Fleck have been impacted by their respective injuries and Robinson and Osborn are lower Champ level (at best).
Age has finally caught up with Sharp (how many do you think he'd score next season?) so he hopefully has a decision whether to move (Derby?) to carry on playing or stay and take up a coaching role.
The only one I'd offer terms to would be Norwood. For a long time he's been central to how and how well Utd play and probably has something to offer next season (helped massively if he has some protection in central midfield and the opposition don't press him when he's in possession) but Doyle and Berge have shown in recent weeks that he's not irreplaceable.
I'm not sure how much you think the players you mention are paid but I can assure you they would not be cheap options next season and far better options would be available for the money.

I pretty much agree with that, apart from Robinson.
Hes improved massively this season and deserves a new contract as back up.