Sander Berge - what if anything is going wrong?

[mattbianco1]

Games with McBurnie and Berge starting


Games with Sharp and McBurnie starting



In the McBurnie games we were more potent up front and we kept more clean sheets.

Sander Berge stats alone:

WITH Berge:
P16 W10 D4 L2

WITHOUT Berge:
P11 W5 D2 L4

Get rid

 

[mattbianco1]

Come on Matt mate really? I've seen 100 of excuses for Berge but now blaming another player? (Sharp) I've never known a player have so many excuses from a fanbase to why he's not performing week in week out...

Backed up by stats above. But, see what you wanna see.

Do you not feel the whole team dynamics change when we rely on Sharp upfront?

 

[Lucky1979]

Love Sander but he wants to stay in 2nd gear all the time. He performed better in the Prem when maybe he gets more time on the ball.

I take it you missed the start of this season before he got injured?

 

[CaptainMorgans]

The obvious answer is that he still isn't match fit. It's clear that he's blowing in the second half of games. As a big bloke, and not a naturally fit whipper snapper type, it probably will take him that bit longer.
This probably also explains why PH wants to leave him out for full 90s to acclimatise him quicker.

With the ball, he still does things that few (if any) in the league can. He's still very effective at carrying the ball into dangerous areas and his deliveries are good. Frustratingly, nobody is getting on the end of them (probably not helped by our lack of forward options).

Without the ball, he has looked a weak link. Probably owing to the lack of fitness. His steps look heavy, cumbersome and he is easily outmanoeuvred and bypassed.
He also has an unfortunate languid style that makes him look lazier than he is and at 6'4 will stand out even when he's doing nothing on the pitch.

The system has been tweaked since he's returned, a lot of that is owing to McBurnie's continued absence.
We're playing with more of a front two, trying to get Ndiaye closer to Sharp to help with getting the ball to stick.
This means we've reverted to something closer to a flat 3 and we all know Berge thrives in advanced areas, rather than sat next to Norwood.

They're my observations on his decline.
I think McBurnie coming back will help him, as we can move back to the two AMs.
I think a DM coming in will help him (preferably a signing, but even Osborn / Fleck offer more cover than Doyle / McAtee).

Outside of all of this, he does need to come to the party a lot more.
He's got obvious talent and there are times when he goes hiding. He needs to show for the ball far, far more. Norwood can't always be the man as it makes us easier to play against (teams just stick a man on him).

 

[Bladesman]

For me Berge isn't as effective when Sharp plays.

Sharp forces us to change formation with Ndiaye further forward as a CF. When McBurnie is on, he links play better and can hold it up better than Sharp which allows Ndiaye and Berge to roam free and join the attacks from deep. Sharp needs a foil close by.

When Sharp plays it's more:

Wes
Anel - Egan -Clark
Baldock - Doyle - Norwood - Lowe
Berge
Ndiaye - Sharp
​

or:

Wes
Anel - Egan -Clark
Baldock - Berge - Doyle - Norwood - Lowe
Ndiaye
Sharp
​

When McBurnie plays, it's more:

Wes
Anel - Egan -Clark
Baldock - Doyle - Norwood - Lowe
Berge - Ndiaye
McBurnie​

Not gonna lie but that is some straw clutching there.

 

[Dkc]

He's like Lunny.

He's subject to similar criticism, namely being lazy or not giving a shit. Blades fans always need a scapegoat, regardless of whether the criticism is deserved. It was Robinson until he started playing better. Then McBurnie until he started finding the back of the net.

 

[Cheesebored]

He's a hard one to weigh up is Sander. Clearly a good footballer but central midfield or holding midfielder is clearly not his best position. For me I think it's his speed of thought that's lacking. He has the ball taken off him far too many times for a player of his undoubted ability. When he plays further forward on the right I'd back him every time to get past his marker and deliver a cross. It says something when a player's been here nearly 3 years and the jury's still out about him.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Backed up by stats above. But, see what you wanna see.

Do you not feel the whole team dynamics change when we rely on Sharp upfront?

I do prefer a McBurnie upfront yes but I just don't think Berge wants to even be here whoever plays.

 

[mattbianco1]

The system has been tweaked since he's returned, a lot of that is owing to McBurnie's continued absence.
We're playing with more of a front two, trying to get Ndiaye closer to Sharp to help with getting the ball to stick.
This means we've reverted to something closer to a flat 3 and we all know Berge thrives in advanced areas, rather than sat next to Norwood.

They're my observations on his decline.
I think McBurnie coming back will help him, as we can move back to the two AMs.

That's 2 of us that have noticed this then.

 

[Sheffsteel]

One of the more interesting threads.

When people rave about Berge I can totally understand their point, I enjoy watching him play.
When people say he's struggling and needs to be dropped/ sold, again I can see their point, he has this knack of disappearing from games.

It's a real conundrum for any coach. How do you get the best out of Berge?

I've not submitted my answer in the poll because I think it's a combination of a few things.
1: He's not up to full strength and fitness, maybe he needs an intensive pre-season.
Also think some of it is also his mentality, think he's needs some lack of aggression counselling over the Summer.
Also as mentioned above his "speed of thought" often seems lacking, makes dopey decisions and can sometimes give the ball away cheaply..
2: It does make me wonder if he needs time on the ball to produce his best, so maybe English football isn't as suitable for him.

At the end of the day you have to trust Hecky. He should know what the issues are and how to get the best out of Berge.
We are being quite critical on Berge, which in some ways is unfair but it's only because he was expensive and we see he's clearly talented with high potential.
Hence it's more about "frustration", instead of thinking he's poor.

 

[alcoblade]

The obvious answer is that he still isn't match fit. It's clear that he's blowing in the second half of games. As a big bloke, and not a naturally fit whipper snapper type, it probably will take him that bit longer.
This probably also explains why PH wants to leave him out for full 90s to acclimatise him quicker.

With the ball, he still does things that few (if any) in the league can. He's still very effective at carrying the ball into dangerous areas and his deliveries are good. Frustratingly, nobody is getting on the end of them (probably not helped by our lack of forward options).

Without the ball, he has looked a weak link. Probably owing to the lack of fitness. His steps look heavy, cumbersome and he is easily outmanoeuvred and bypassed.
He also has an unfortunate languid style that makes him look lazier than he is and at 6'4 will stand out even when he's doing nothing on the pitch.

The system has been tweaked since he's returned, a lot of that is owing to McBurnie's continued absence.
We're playing with more of a front two, trying to get Ndiaye closer to Sharp to help with getting the ball to stick.
This means we've reverted to something closer to a flat 3 and we all know Berge thrives in advanced areas, rather than sat next to Norwood.

They're my observations on his decline.
I think McBurnie coming back will help him, as we can move back to the two AMs.
I think a DM coming in will help him (preferably a signing, but even Osborn / Fleck offer more cover than Doyle / McAtee).

Outside of all of this, he does need to come to the party a lot more.
He's got obvious talent and there are times when he goes hiding. He needs to show for the ball far, far more. Norwood can't always be the man as it makes us easier to play against (teams just stick a man on him).

I do agree with some of your observations here but you could start a whole new Berge bingo card in that post alone.

This is a player with an army of fanboys who not so long ago were claiming "pay the £35M get out clause, or do one". Yet over 3 years he's rarely been even the best player in our team, let alone England's second division.

It really is time we all settled on the fact that he's a decent / top end championship footballer, and that's about where he's at.

 

[Hillsboro Blade]

Yesterday showed he’s more effective and himself feels more comfortable further up the pitch. Going past players, linking up, good passer of the ball. He is not a defensive midfielder, I enjoy watching him play. A natural talent, great balance and calmness on the ball. Just enjoying him whilst he’s here. After some of the midfield shit I’ve witnessed in my 40 years of watching the Blades, Ian Hamilton, Dean Hammond, Paul Thirlwell etc. He will be missed when he inevitably moves on. Don Hutchison is still my favourite midfielder seen at the Lane though.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Yesterday showed he’s more effective and himself feels more comfortable further up the pitch. Going past players, linking up, good passer of the ball. He is not a defensive midfielder, I enjoy watching him play. A natural talent, great balance and calmness on the ball. Just enjoying him whilst he’s here. After some of the midfield shit I’ve witnessed in my 40 years of watching the Blades, Ian Hamilton, Dean Hammond, Paul Thirlwell etc. He will be missed when he inevitably moves on. Don Hutchison is still my favourite midfielder seen at the Lane though.

Good post...that's how I feel.
Sometimes when I think back to some of the ordinary midfielders we've had over the decades
....it almost feels like I'm in a parallel universe that some people can be so harshly critical of Berge.

Berge is often described as a Rolls Royce and I agree, it's a good description. However it often feels likes he's a Rolls Royce be driven by a 70 year old.
May be he needs to spend a couple of months in a training camp like a heavy weight boxer preparing for a title fight.
With some aggression counselling and some proper weight training we can swap the 70 year old driver and put in a 25 year old wanting to give the Roller a proper spin.

PS: Also agree about Hutchison...one of my favourite midfielders too.

 

[brownblade]

I think there are a lot of valid points in support of Berge. He deserves stick sometimes, but not as much as he seems to get.

I'd like more from him, consistently, but overall I think Berge is clearly better for us as an attacking midfielder with not too much defensive responsibility. He'd doubtless be a better "central midfielder" in a slower league in Europe.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

He's like Lunny.

He needs to play in a slower league for a team who dominates possession.

He'd be a star for Celtic or Rangers

Berge is great when he has lots of time on the ball. Not going to get that in English football.

He also seems unwilling to put in the workrate needed off the ball

You could tie both Sanders legs together and he'd still be better than Lunny.
I watched the Celtic v Ranger's game yesterday and Lunny's still the king of passing sideways and backwards.
Oh and Scottish Football has actually got worse, both Ranger's and Celtic would struggle to be top half Championship.

 

[1987]

He's looked a bit out of sorts at times since his return, I like the Sander who drives (glides) forward where nobody can touch him.

He needs to want and demand the ball more. He seems happy at times to just let others have it, almost like he's scared of it.

Though that some people are voting he isn't good enough I can't really fathom, he clearly is good enough.

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

At the end of the day you have to trust Hecky

Based on Hecky's amazing record, this statement is the one that makes most sense on this forum and should be in BIG BOLD TYPE AS THE FORUM HEADER

 

[Large Mendonca]

If i could have vote for "He's a good player, especially at this level, but not as good as his price tag suggests and overrated by many", then I would have picked that one.

 

[Cutbush City Limits]

There no doubt that Berge has the potential to be a quality player but to me he has 2 main issues:

1. He has a 'languid' style which give the impression he is constantly coasting through games - especially when we need energy at the end of a game

2. He has already had 1 significant injury and then was also out again shortly afterwards. He looks like a player who has lost confidence in his body and is nervous about giving that extra 10% for fear of a reoccurrence

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I do agree with some of your observations here but you could start a whole new Berge bingo card in that post alone.

This is a player with an army of fanboys who not so long ago were claiming "pay the £35M get out clause, or do one". Yet over 3 years he's rarely been even the best player in our team, let alone England's second division.

It really is time we all settled on the fact that he's a decent / top end championship footballer, and that's about where he's at.

I can sort of understand people complaining about there being too many excuses made for Berge, but at the same time I think fans often want things to be packaged up too simplistically, a black & white "he's wank" or "he's a £50m player."
Things are often far more nuanced. We have seen Berge at his best, he isn't there right now. The coaching staff will be trying to work out how to get the best out of him, so that's what the thread is about.

He isn't fit, he's playing in a role that doesn't get the best out of him and he isn't demanding the ball enough all feel pretty reasonable assertions.

 

[alcoblade]

I can sort of understand people complaining about there being too many excuses made for Berge, but at the same time I think fans often want things to be packaged up too simplistically, a black & white "he's wank" or "he's a £50m player."
Things are often far more nuanced. We have seen Berge at his best, he isn't there right now. The coaching staff will be trying to work out how to get the best out of him, so that's what the thread is about.

He isn't fit, he's playing in a role that doesn't get the best out of him and he isn't demanding the ball enough all feel pretty reasonable assertions.

I agree. Though I think he should be fit by now, and that's one of his problems, not (directly) ours. IE - he's quite injury prone, and he's slow to get back to full fitness.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

I agree. Though I think he should be fit by now, and that's one of his problems, not (directly) ours. IE - he's quite injury prone, and he's slow to get back to full fitness.

I can't argue with that. He clearly has fitness issues. Unfortunately for us so do several of our players.
Bogle, Lowe, RND, Clark, Fleck, McBurnie and Brewster are all missing about as many games as they play.

It's the only thing that can derail us this season.
We've quitely gone and accumulated 10 players out injured again since this World Cup break...

 

[JackSUFC]

His best run of games in a Blades shirt was arguably during the second half of last season. He managed to stay injury-free and played with freedom further up the pitch with Gibbs-White.

Get McBurnie back, get him further forward with Ndiaye and he'll (hopefully) be back to his best.

Berge Ndiaye
McBurnie

All fit and firing, that's a sensational front three at Championship level.

 

[Lucky1979]

Life on this forum….

Plays well….”if someone wants him they can pay his £35m buyout”

Has an average game…..”move on asap. Swap him for for Newcastle’s 3rd choice keeper. He’s wank” etc etc

 

[ISZA ⚔️]

He can be decent. He can be crap.

He lacks in what are crucial areas when playing for United - heart, desire, determination.

Messi would get stick at the Lane if he wasn’t giving his all - and rightfully so.

 

[Lucky1979]

He can be decent. He can be crap.

He lacks in what are crucial areas when playing for United - heart, desire, determination.

Messi would get stick at the Lane if he wasn’t giving his all - and rightfully so.

 

[Medlock]

Nevertheless, Berge does have a few clear weaknesses which he must eradicate if he is to reach the world-class bracket.
Given his great build, it is natural for a player to be heavy footed and this can lead to him losing possession. He can be a little lethargic in terms of his work rate as well, and there are instances where he tends to remain static and not support his midfielder partner under pressure.
Berge is also rather one-dimensional; he often moves in one direction and looks for the safe option when it comes to passing, and his pass selection is extremely limited, even more so with the fact that he does not use his left foot to play passes.

From a scouting report two years ago

 

[SouthportBlade]

Clearly a bit of an enigma.

Buckets of talent, yet maddeningly inconsistent or ineffective.

This got me thinking, the whole “excuses” narrative has to work both ways, does it not?

If the held view is he’s a Rolls Royce, a cheat code: the rationale that follows for poor performances is that he not being used properly, not fully fit etc etc

However if the view is he’s just not very good, lacks desire, grossly overrated or unsuited to the English game: there has to be rationale for his at times exceptional performances? Full of confidence, playing in right position etc

Not unlike any other professional footballer, confidence and fitness have to be massive factors for Berge. When he’s got the confidence and fitness to regularly drive forward as an attacking threat he’s sublime.

If that confidence is knocked, or he’s not in peak condition and that means he opts for the easy ball or doesn’t have the stamina to beat a man to the byline it negates his main and most destructive asset.

Sadly confidence isn’t black and white and attaining peak fitness takes times, perhaps more so for Berge than others?

Despite all this, I remain utterly convinced that the Berge of the 2nd half of last season playing in a more attacking role, firing on all cylinders increases our chances of promotion immeasurably.

Which is why getting him fit and playing well feels like a massive focus at the moment.

 

[ancientblade]

Clearly a bit of an enigma.

Buckets of talent, yet maddeningly inconsistent or ineffective.

This got me thinking, the whole “excuses” narrative has to work both ways, does it not?

If the held view is he’s a Rolls Royce, a cheat code: the rationale that follows for poor performances is that he not being used properly, not fully fit etc etc

However if the view is he’s just not very good, lacks desire, grossly overrated or unsuited to the English game: there has to be rationale for his at times exceptional performances? Full of confidence, playing in right position etc

Not unlike any other professional footballer, confidence and fitness have to be massive factors for Berge. When he’s got the confidence and fitness to regularly drive forward as an attacking threat he’s sublime.

If that confidence is knocked, or he’s not in peak condition and that means he opts for the easy ball or doesn’t have the stamina to beat a man to the byline it negates his main and most destructive asset.

Sadly confidence isn’t black and white and attaining peak fitness takes times, perhaps more so for Berge than others?

Despite all this, I remain utterly convinced that the Berge of the 2nd half of last season playing in a more attacking role, firing on all cylinders increases our chances of promotion immeasurably.

Which is why getting him fit and playing well feels like a massive focus at the moment.

thats the key we have to play him further forward thats where hes dangerous tracking back and defensive duties are not his best attributes so frustrating though you can see hes got so much more to offer but just doesnt do it consistently enough

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Confidence. He doesn't realise how good he actually is.