email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

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noire said:
The exits and entrance to their Kop aren’t at the very back of the stand though. (At least not all of them anyway).

In fairness to SCC/SAG/Whomever, they have condemned great swathes of the Rust-Bowl. So while I do believe the powers that be don’t like our club it is disingenuous to suggest The Pigs get away with everything.

While it would seem the club have rolled over straight away, I don’t really think they have much choice. If they want to start a battle with the licensing authorities the sad fact is the Kop is so horrendously outdated that I believe there would be, given enough time and motive, plenty enough faults to have the stand closed in it’s entirety, permanently. An outcome I’m sure the club will do anything to avoid since it contains nearly a third of the entire capacity of the ground.

The stand as it is now would never be able to open as a new build. The club benefits from its licence being grandfathered in. But a 150 year old dirt mound with some seats bolted on is not sufficient in the long term to hold a crowd of 10,000 people within current and future regulations and legislation.
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Good old Sheffield council the great believer in buisnesses and how to kill them off .can't think of one serious incident where lives were put in danger at the lane
 

a few things seem obvious to me.

1. police and council aren’t going to want to be seen to back down without something appearing appearing to change, even if only for a short period of time.

2. Things have rubbed along for years and will do so again once SCC / SYP fuck off and go back to mismanaging other things

3. things have been made worse in recent times by a small number of dickhead teenagers and their love of marching powder.

4. The consequences triggered by the actions of these small number of dickhead teenagers are going to limit the enjoyment of decent, sensible people who want to buy a ticket for the back of the kop.

5. The club employed minimum wage moron stewards have proven they are not able to fix it.

6. So it’s up to us to sort it and take action into own hands, is it not?. If the dickhead kids causing the issues were put in their place by the hundreds of other normal fans who want things to return to normal wouldn’t this issue be done and dusted in a maximum of 2 home matches?
 
FB98 said:
Because standing happens at every single ground in the country. I have never in my life seen a Blades away end sat down.
I don't think anyone cares about people standing up, I think they need to stop overcrowding and the solution to that is a bigger area for the people who do want to stand, currently restricted to a section far too small for their number.
It's relevant that people want to stand because the people that do are almost the only people that generate regular atmosphere in the ground. Heckingbottom has regularly stated he considers this very important to the team, so accommodating these people is important to the football alongside those fans themselves.
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You can accomodate them but it has to be in the right way.

Take smoking of cannabis as an example. In many countries and states now it is legalised.

But when it wasn't, you can't expect the authorities to not have applied the law at the time because they might think it should be legalised.

You can't allow people to break rules or laws and hope the laws catch up, you have to enforce them as they are.

It appears to be the lack of that enforcement which sees the statement last night.

The best hope is to collaborate and get momentum on safe standing whilst keeping the club's nose clean.

Ok singing you might have a point. But that is not to say nobody sings or chants when they are sat down.

There's a behavioral change needed then. Either those that sing or chant learn to do it sitting down or they are so inflexible and can only do it standing up then they'll either be ejected or the places they do it will be sectioned off.

You can't win this one through rebellion I'm afraid. You'll only end up hurting the thing you love the most with the club being hit in the pocket, reducing the scope to roll out the change you want.

The authorities are holding the Aces on this one. The quicker everyone comes to a point of acceptance on this, this quicker everyone can move things forward constructively.
 
If everyone simply complies and sits down the club won't consider it a priority to spend any money or offer any solutions to make things better. Sitting down & complying would be permanent. The board would be chuffed with the fact they now don't need to do anything
 
S64 Blade said:
I'll blame both. Firstly those for standing in seats not allocated to them and secondly, to the club for not getting a handle on the situation (through the stewards that are employed to deal with these very situations), or communicating the issue/potential outcomes. The latter may well have resulted in a bit of self-policing, if fans had been clearly made aware of any sanctions.

There is a massive mid-ground in stewarding; between doing nothing and the 'Nazi style' stewarding you refer to later on in this thread. One extreme to the other rarely works.
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Good post and identifies the crux of the problem in not communicating with fans effectively. As a season ticket holder on the Kop yesterdays e mail received at the beginning of the season explaining the problem of overcrowding breaching ground safety regulations with the threat of future sanctions would have alerted us all to the consequences.

We all know there is a difficult relationship with SAG from past experiences. The Club employs a Safety and Security team to carry out risk assessments and audits as well as collating safety information from post match de briefings. The issue of overcrowding and not being sat in the correct seat is bound to have been high on the agenda such that new stewards were employed to police a gangway at the back of the Kop at the first match of the season. No prior communication was issued to supporters explaining the reasons for this action. Even after a number of complaints were made about an over zealous steward did the Club feel the need to issue a formal explanation. It was left to the local hack to provide some answers resulting in the stewards being removed. The very fact other stewards around the ground were not aware of the reasons for these checks reveals the communication problems that exist at the Club.

I accept the written word can be misinterpreted but consulting with fans proactively before a situation gets out of hand is surely a better option than throwing in a reactive hand grenade which significantly impacts revenue and divides the fan base.

The comments on social media and this thread show the strength of feeling on this issue. The Club could take some of the heat out of the situation by offering BLUT seats at Kop prices for the next few games. Additionally some indication of when a review is likely to be concluded would be helpful.
 
FB98 said:
Well it won't be 'tough titties' because i have little doubt the people that usually stand will be standing next week.
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I'll look forward to the threads of "wahhh... the Nazis threw me out" if they aren't standing where they are supposed to be situated then...
 
Gimli said:
Problem is, there is no section for standing. You’ve mentioned the area for people who want to stand being too restricted - but there is no defined area, as its an all seater stadium.

Until a time when safe standing happens at Bramall Lane, it’s tough titties to those who want to stand but can’t because someone else wants to sit down. As it is, the sitters are in the right.
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Yet somehow, at places like Elland Road for example with no defined areas, no safe standing, and being all seater, two stands seem to manage to stand without being drowned out out the self righteous.
 
Bladeloyal said:
Good old Sheffield council the great believer in buisnesses and how to kill them off .can't think of one serious incident where lives were put in danger at the lane
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What about if say there was a fire? Congested gangways might put some in danger then.
 
alcoblade said:
Yet somehow, at places like Elland Road for example with no defined areas, no safe standing, and being all seater, two stands seem to manage to stand without being drowned out out the self righteous.
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And has already been mentioned, that's a matter for the Leeds local authorities and perhaps they were satisfied with the behaviour of Leeds fans.
 
The reason Leeds local authorities are perhaps 'satisfied with the behaviour of Leeds fans' is perhaps because they are all Leeds fans.

Breaches or ground regulations are worse at Elland Rd than at the Lane, by far.
 
FB98 said:
The solution to the problem is an area, official rail seating or otherwise, big enough to fit everyone who wants to stand up. This has been said many times but everyone keeps ignoring it
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But until such a time as this happens, what should the fans do, and what should the club do?

Don't get me wrong, I like standing up at the back of the kop as much as the next fan. The 3 of us had seats there and tried to stand at our seats but it became impossible with the overcrowding, especially as one of us is a bit disabled so had to move to South 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
Ainsley Harriott said:
Closing the kop for a time is given as one of the punishments. Not only does that affect income, it affects the entire dynamic of the matchday.

The kop IS the atmosphere and don't anyone kid themselves otherwise. I've sat on John Street and its embarrassing. I was told to sit down by somebody before I'd actually found my seat once. The noise comes from the kop. The encouragement comes from the kop. Close it and see what happens to the team. We saw it during covid.

If the club want fans to follow the rules (someone above says the stadium is all seater so we shouldnt get upset about this, ALL stadia are all seater in the top 2 divisions, so this message should be aimed at every club) then the club need to communicate this better. I'm guessing they've had prior warnings, so tell the fans that. If it's a 3 strikes and you're out kinda thing, why haven't we been told each time?


It's also akin to the wet paint analogy. Tell fans to sit down, it isn't going to happen.
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You see this in cup games when they close the Kop too and we get out sung by all and sundry.
 

Also Leeds Council owns the land beneath the ground; land round the ground or lent them money for it. Either way they (Leeds Council) are extremely supportive in the way that a 1 club city can be.
Dkc said:
The reason Leeds local authorities are perhaps 'satisfied with the behaviour of Leeds fans' is perhaps because they are all Leeds fans.

Breaches or ground regulations are worse at Elland Rd than at the Lane, by far.
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tyke1889 said:
But until such a time as this happens, what should the fans do, and what should the club do?

Don't get me wrong, I like standing up at the back of the kop as much as the next fan. The 3 of us had seats there and tried to stand at our seats but it became impossible with the overcrowding, especially as one of us is a bit disabled so had to move to South 🤷🏼‍♂️
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If the fans don't continue disobeying the rules, the club will do nothing because they won't consider there to be a problem anymore. Everyone sitting down would become permanent.
 
Proper Blade said:
For example, when @Stand United did a survey to find out the fans' opinions on safe standing, it turned out an overwhelmingly majority supported it. OK, it's not a scientific survey, but certainly gives you an idea of the extent of support for safe standing.

But what do the club do? Nothing. Ignore it. Don't listen to the fans. Don't even entertain the possibility of safe standing.
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There’s been a shift on that this season since the option of licensed standing was rolled out to other clubs in the summer, and we’ve had some initial conversations in the past month. Now that the SGSA is allowed to roll out licensed standing areas more widely, they and SAGs are becoming increasingly less tolerant of persistent standing in seated areas. This isn’t surprising to see either – they’ve been relatively tolerant till now while clubs had no option to have official standing areas, but now that it’s available clubs need to shift towards this or find another way to meet the terms of their licence. This is not an issue unique to United, there are other examples in the top two leagues this season where the authorities have acted in similar fashion. There will probably be more that follow.

Dkc said:
The reason Leeds local authorities are perhaps 'satisfied with the behaviour of Leeds fans' is perhaps because they are all Leeds fans.

Breaches or ground regulations are worse at Elland Rd than at the Lane, by far.
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It was following discussions with the SGSA that Leeds brought in rail seating for an area of the Don Revie stand last season. An area they are now expanding mid season, again highly likely a response to pressure that’s been put on them by authorities to manage this.

 
Awful waste of money for clubs like Leeds where a problem never existed to anyone other than the ridiculous safety boards to be honest. But that's Britain/football for you.
 
FB98 said:
If the fans don't continue disobeying the rules, the club will do nothing because they won't consider there to be a problem anymore. Everyone sitting down would become permanent.
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This is the rub though isn't it?

Keep misbehaving and the club will definitely be punished, will definitely have parts of the ground closed and will definitely lose revenue.

Stop misbehaving and the club might be open to consider making efforts for safe standing.

One seems a certainly. The other a possibility.
 
Champagneblade said:
This is the rub though isn't it?

Keep misbehaving and the club will definitely be punished, will definitely have parts of the ground closed and will definitely lose revenue.

Stop misbehaving and the club might be open to consider making efforts for safe standing.

One seems a certainly. The other a possibility.
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Surely you accept that if everyone sits down with no fuss the club will consider the problem solved & doing anything about it goes right to the back of their priorities
 
FB98 said:
Surely you accept that if everyone sits down with no fuss the club will consider the problem solved & doing anything about it goes right to the back of their priorities
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I don't accept that you need an antagonistic relationship with the club to get them to do anything. I doubt Foxy does either who I'm guessing has had far more success in getting his suggestions implemented than you have.
 
FB98 said:
If the fans don't continue disobeying the rules, the club will do nothing because they won't consider there to be a problem anymore. Everyone sitting down would become permanent.
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Disobeying the rules is very likely to get parts of the stand closed, or maybe the whole stand, and it isn’t the club who would do that, that is the last thing the club want.

Everyone sitting down permantly has been the requirement for many many years. There is now a possibility to introduce safe standing which requires agreement from the club and the safety and licensing authorities, not just the club, but this will take a long time to implement, and if the current situation continues there is no chance of it being introduced.

You other often quoted suggestion of moving fans out of their seats to allow other fans to move there to stand isn’t going to happen either, I think things have gone to far now with SAG for them to allow that, the club saying yeah, we know there is a problem with fans standing at the back of the Kop so we have made more space to allow more fans to stand probably isn’t going to wash now.
 
If the problem persists doing something will become priority number one for the club. Foxy asking nicely (which i'm in no way knocking) will have nowhere near the impact that resisting would.
Either way, i couldn't think of anything worse than going to the football and quietly sitting down for 90 minutes. Especially in that KOP
 
FB98 said:
If the problem persists doing something will become priority number one for the club. Foxy asking nicely (which i'm in no way knocking) will have nowhere near the impact that resisting would.
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What successes have you had in changing the clubs mind about anything?
 
FB98 said:
Surely you accept that if everyone sits down with no fuss the club will consider the problem solved & doing anything about it goes right to the back of their priorities
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Back to my prior point about catching more flies with honey than vinegar.

There isn't much choice if you rationalise it.

One option closes all possibilities, loses then club money and potentially prevents some fans from attending.

The other doesn't lose the club money, may be a grounds for dialogue for safe standing.

At least in the latter scenario everyone can still go to the game.

In the end, they are only asking for fans to abide by the rules. If some fans have been breaking them and now are being told this can't go on, maybe the mature thing to do is accept you had a good run and crack on with supporting the club as best you can.

If it was fans vs the club it may be different. But it isn't. The club doesn't have any discretion by the sounds of it. It's either improve or face the consequences.

Have to pick your battles and in this case the lesser of the two evils as you may see it is to take the ruling seriously and ask to engage all the fans groups to push on safe standing. I don't honestly see a viable alternative.
 
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FB98 said:
None? But this causing a problem will mean finding a solution will be priority number one for the club
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What if the club decide the solution to the problem is getting rid of the fans that are causing the problem?
 

Muttley said:
So, if the kop gets closed, as season ticket holders, do we get reimbursed or relocated? Or, do they just steal our mon
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metalblade said:
To me this should be stamped out by effective stewarding Are we not supposed to have high definition camera's good enough to identify people inside the stadium. It should not be hard to see who the culprits are that sit in other peoples seats. Get a bunch of stewards and Police in to eject them and hand them a banning order if they do it again put them through the courts. It seems childish to punish fans who sit or stand now and then in their allotted seat, as well as punishing fans who buy tickets on the day and do nothing wrong.
Should the kop get closed will SUFC refund me the money I paid for my season ticket? Seems to me like the stewards can't do their jobs if so get some what can.

Going to football is starting to become a chore what with coked up kids thinking they are ten men. This shit is not just happening in the ground either after the last two games there has been trouble in Pond street with a queue of 80 or more people waiting for the bus a group of youths think they can turn up and be first onto the bus. On both occasions it has come close to blows last Saturday was bad when these lads do get on the bus they say they have forgot their kids pass, no way are they 12 more like 15-16 with a few a bit older so then the bus is delayed while they argue with the driver who demands full fare rather than the 80p kids fare. I'm fucking sick of these little I can do what I want shitbags. The trouble is you snap one of the little cunts in half and it is you that is arrested and gets a fine.
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These cunts nowadays pal have no respect or fuck all. It weren’t like this years ago but there all gangsters and hard in a gang of 12 on there own they wouldn’t look twice
 
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