email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[FB98]

What if the club decide the solution to the problem is getting rid of the fans that are causing the problem?

So be it. They'll be no atmosphere left but we'll have tried.

 

[BladeByChoice]

Lets be sensible about this and look at it from the point of view of the club wanting to generate extra income as soon as possible from any improvements.

Lets start with the kop, the current capacity is 10,221 with around 196 seats on each row.

Remove the seats from the back 10 rows (VV upwards) and extend back another 20 rows, making the rake steeper for the back 30 rows, make these 30 rows safe standing to increase capacity to 300 per row.

So with the current back 10 rows holding around 1960 and the extended capacity holding 9000 that’s an extra capacity of around 7040, At 400 quid ish for an ST that’s 2,816,000 extra income.

Bung a cantilever roof on top to get rid of the posts and a covered concourse under the new extension, and you have a business model that the club can live with.

Give us 3 years in the Prem then look at the South stand again.

Posted 11 Jan 2020 and still fuck all done and never will be.

I’m almost 60, I’ve been standing at the back of the Kop (in front of my seat) since seating was introduced, I’ve never had a problem or been told to sit down by a steward. From now on I’ll only stand to sing, cheer or tell the ref to fuck off (I sing, cheer or tell the ref to fuck off for 90 minutes every match).

 

[Champagneblade]

So be it. They'll be no atmosphere left but we'll have tried.

But then nobody gains.

It shouldn't come to that if fans attempt to understand the club's predicament.

The club loses some passionate fans and the fans don't get to see their team anymore.

Surely you are more of a fan of watching United than just standing up and singing.

If you really need to have your dose of standing up and singing, it's December soon, do they still do Christmas Caroling? Failing that I'm sure St Mary's Church would welcome you, and it's only around the corner

 

[FB98]

But then nobody gains.

It shouldn't come to that if fans attempt to understand the club's predicament.

The club loses some passionate fans and the fans don't get to see their team anymore.

Surely you are more of a fan of watching United than just standing up and singing.

If you really need to have your dose of standing up and singing, it's December soon, do they still do Christmas Caroling? Failing that I'm sure St Mary's Church would welcome you, and it's only around the corner

If the club came out and said we're implementing standing over the world cup break, until then, sit down please, i'd sit down.
The reality would be if we started sitting down we'd be sat down for the next 10 years because finding the money to do something about it would be bottom priority. So best option is to try and force the hand.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Give the club an inch they'll take a mile. Sitting down in your allocated seat will be the start. Breathalysers next to cut down on anyone being blue. Social credit score before you know it.

 

[tyke1889]

If the problem persists doing something will become priority number one for the club. Foxy asking nicely (which i'm in no way knocking) will have nowhere near the impact that resisting would.
Either way, i couldn't think of anything worse than going to the football and quietly sitting down for 90 minutes. Especially in that KOP

We sit in the South and we're not quiet, trust me

 

[Champagneblade]

If the club came out and said we're implementing standing over the world cup break, until then, sit down please, i'd sit down.
The reality would be if we started sitting down we'd be sat down for the next 10 years because finding the money to do something about it would be bottom priority. So best option is to try and force the hand.

The club will need time to make the adjustments you would like to see. The timeframe you suggest isn't realistic. It would probably take a number of months just for implementation. I doubt they could achieve this, without it taking place in a pre-season. Plus they would need planning permission, a number of permits, have to canvass the relevant firms and align with their availability too.

You then have to think of the budget. The club will have mapped out it's expected expenses for the current season against it's expected revenues. Implementing safe standing isn't going to be in this season's budget so unless an unexpected windfall occurs, then the funding would not be in place. You'd need something unexpected like Newcastle bidding 50m for Calvert-Lewin in January and United getting something like 7m+ for a 15% sell-on to give you an unexpected pot of funds.

Even in that simplistic scenario then you have prioritisation to consider, notwithstanding the fact the club probably expect to lose money this season. You can only spend the money once. So it might be a new midfielder to partner Norwood. It might be a plot of land to extend the Academy. It might be an additional pitch or a further Academy building. It might be doing the refurbishment for the hotel to get that open and potentially earning. It might be just to decrease a loss or set aside for the summer playing budget. It would be competing with all those.

But your understanding that making noise is what will cause action is misplaced. You do that when you are negotiating with one party whose interest is to keep you onside and who has complete control over the outcome.

This isn't the case here. Even if the Club wished to accommodate you they cannot. The authorities are the ones who are effectively intervening and they are not going to be seen to reward bad behavior.

The club would eventually be forced to reluctantly ban fans because regrettably losing a handful of fans, as opposed to seeing capacity reduced for thousands of matchday attendees, wouldn't make sense on either a financial level or a fan service level.

End of the day, you're a fan. You support the club. Eventually you will rationalise that the best thing to do is to act in the best interests of the club you love.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

We sit in the South and we're not quiet, trust me

Don’t spoil the fantasy that they're the only ones creating any atmosphere in the ground.

 

[Linz]

If the club came out and said we're implementing standing over the world cup break, until then, sit down please, i'd sit down.

... which they cannot do, for all the reasons and evidence provided in this thread. It isn't an arbitrary decision to be made by SUFC in isolation and able to be implemented with two months notice.

With the State of Things at the moment, I'd imagine the lead time on the rail seats alone would run into months and that's without any of the paperwork and meetings around the licencing.

And no, because I can see where you'll go next - Sheffield United is not, in the real world, going to come out and advertise a standing section in a seated ground because this is against the law. The upshot is that they will invalidate any insurance policy they hold and piss off the licencing authority.

I envy the naiveite of anyone who has never had to deal with shit like this for a living

 

[Addison]

Perhaps Mr Sinclair should play this when the teams come out from now on. "Oh sit darn next to me"

 

[Harry's Game]

... which they cannot do, for all the reasons and evidence provided in this thread. It isn't an arbitrary decision to be made by SUFC in isolation and able to be implemented with two months notice.

With the State of Things at the moment, I'd imagine the lead time on the rail seats alone would run into months and that's without any of the paperwork and meetings around the licencing.

And no, because I can see where you'll go next - Sheffield United is not, in the real world, going to come out and advertise a standing section in a seated ground because this is against the law. The upshot is that they will invalidate any insurance policy they hold and piss off the licencing authority.

I envy the naiveite of anyone who has never had to deal with shit like this for a living

How many times do people need to be told this?

 

[bartman]

Posted 11 Jan 2020 and still fuck all done and never will be.

I’m almost 60, I’ve been standing at the back of the Kop (in front of my seat) since seating was introduced, I’ve never had a problem or been told to sit down by a steward. From now on I’ll only stand to sing, cheer or tell the ref to fuck off (I sing, cheer or tell the ref to fuck off for 90 minutes every match).

That is your choice. The club hasn't asked you to do this and your( and fans like you) aren't the issue that the Club is trying to resolve

 

[FB98]

... which they cannot do, for all the reasons and evidence provided in this thread. It isn't an arbitrary decision to be made by SUFC in isolation and able to be implemented with two months notice.

With the State of Things at the moment, I'd imagine the lead time on the rail seats alone would run into months and that's without any of the paperwork and meetings around the licencing.

And no, because I can see where you'll go next - Sheffield United is not, in the real world, going to come out and advertise a standing section in a seated ground because this is against the law. The upshot is that they will invalidate any insurance policy they hold and piss off the licencing authority.

I envy the naiveite of anyone who has never had to deal with shit like this for a living

I agree
I still believe that if we all sat down obediently that doing anything to address to problem would be at the bottom of the clubs list of priorities and it would be years, not months, until anything was done. The club would not see a serious problem if fans did as they were told

 

[Blades Glory Owls Down]

I have zero sympathy with a 5"7 women who chose the back or the KOP not being able to see? Isn't it blindingly obvious the back of the KOP isn't an area for a partially disabled women with 10 & 12 year old kids?
Where as it IS the blindingly obvious area for young lads wanting to stand and make an atmosphere.
You want to sit down pick one of the other 33000 seats in the ground. Really simple stuff.

I’ve had the opportunity to read most of your posts on this matter and it appears to me that you are one of those people who are clearly hard of thinking.
You miss/choose to ignore the points made by others that don’t fit with your agenda.
If you can muster those few brain cells of yours to spark into action and absorb what I wrote, you would see that I clearly indicated that I have no issue with people standing IN THEIR ALLOCATED SEAT AREA. this doesn’t present an issue. People behind can still see the game. Even my boys (with a little assistance of standing on their seat or being lifted by me) were able to see when those in front stood up.
However. When all of the people are standing IN THE GANGWAYS/AISLES and grouped tightly together then it becomes much harder for ANYONE let alone a small child or shorter person to see past/over the sheer volume of bodies.
Do you understand or do we need some visual aids??
Now to address the issue of atmosphere….
My mum (who becomes more disabled with every post you make - I clearly said she has some “mobility issues”) happily STANDS IN HER ALLOCATED SEAT and……….wait for it…….SINGS along with others throughout the game. Shock, Horror. A 64 year old woman having the audacity to sing despite being under the height threshold at a mere 5’7.
And my kids, Both of a wildly inadequate size at under 5’ tall, enjoyed nothing more than memorising ALL of the songs from the games and……….you might want to sit down for this……would SING ALONG with everyone else!! Disgraceful. I know!!
Now if I remember correctly, in my 30+ years of attending games,the atmosphere was generated from lots of different areas of the Kop in addition to other areas of the ground (G/H block on south stand as another example). We didn’t need dickheads standing with their mates in the gangways to lead us.

Now one last attempt.

The issue is far too many PEOPLE CONGREGATING IN THE GANGWAYS/AISLES at the back of the Kop where there are NO ALLOCATED SEATS, ONLY STEPS THAT PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE ENTRANCE/EXITS FROM THE KOP.
This is creating a HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUE! Whilst also adding a secondary issue of impeding the view of those people sitting/standing in their allocated seats.

 

[bartman]

If the club came out and said we're implementing standing over the world cup break, until then, sit down please, i'd sit down.
The reality would be if we started sitting down we'd be sat down for the next 10 years because finding the money to do something about it would be bottom priority. So best option is to try and force the hand.

So basically, you back the fans who are cramming in the seats and blocking gangways even thou the consequences could be severe.

 

[FB98]

I’ve had the opportunity to read most of your posts on this matter and it appears to me that you are one of those people who are clearly hard of thinking.
You miss/choose to ignore the points made by others that don’t fit with your agenda.
If you can muster those few brain cells of yours to spark into action and absorb what I wrote, you would see that I clearly indicated that I have no issue with people standing IN THEIR ALLOCATED SEAT AREA. this doesn’t present an issue. People behind can still see the game. Even my boys (with a little assistance of standing on their seat or being lifted by me) were able to see when those in front stood up.
However. When all of the people are standing IN THE GANGWAYS/AISLES and grouped tightly together then it becomes much harder for ANYONE let alone a small child or shorter person to see past/over the sheer volume of bodies.
Do you understand or do we need some visual aids??
Now to address the issue of atmosphere….
My mum (who becomes more disabled with every post you make - I clearly said she has some “mobility issues”) happily STANDS IN HER ALLOCATED SEAT and……….wait for it…….SINGS along with others throughout the game. Shock, Horror. A 64 year old woman having the audacity to sing despite being under the height threshold at a mere 5’7.
And my kids, Both of a wildly inadequate size at under 5’ tall, enjoyed nothing more than memorising ALL of the songs from the games and……….you might want to sit down for this……would SING ALONG with everyone else!! Disgraceful. I know!!
Now if I remember correctly, in my 30+ years of attending games,the atmosphere was generated from lots of different areas of the Kop in addition to other areas of the ground (G/H block on south stand as another example). We didn’t need dickheads standing with their mates in the gangways to lead us.

Now one last attempt.

The issue is far too many PEOPLE CONGREGATING IN THE GANGWAYS/AISLES at the back of the Kop where there are NO ALLOCATED SEATS, ONLY STEPS THAT PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE ENTRANCE/EXITS FROM THE KOP.
This is creating a HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUE! Whilst also adding a secondary issue of impeding the view of those people sitting/standing in their allocated seats.

And as i have said, many times, these lads only do this because there isn't enough spaces for them to buy tickets in standing areas.
The cause of this is people buying tickets 8 rows from the back and asking those infront to sit down.
The 7 rows behind will be congested until this expands.
I agree with you on what the issue is. We disagree on the cause of the problem. IMO the problem exists because disabled people choose to sit 8 rows from the back of our loudest area.

 

[FB98]

So basically, you back the fans who are cramming in the seats and blocking gangways even thou the consequences could be severe.

I definitely back the fans standing up in their own seats. Blocking the gangways is more contentious but as stated above I do understand why those lads have to do this. If we had a full stand, even half a stand on their feet, they wouldn't have to cram in.

 

[Linz]

I agree
I still believe that if we all sat down obediently that doing anything to address to problem would be at the bottom of the clubs list of priorities and it would be years, not months, until anything was done. The club would not see a serious problem if fans did as they were told

So do something. Join one of the safe standing campaigns. Talk to the SLOs. Lobby the Board.

You're clearly passionate about it.

 

[jim2007]

... which they cannot do, for all the reasons and evidence provided in this thread. It isn't an arbitrary decision to be made by SUFC in isolation and able to be implemented with two months notice.

With the State of Things at the moment, I'd imagine the lead time on the rail seats alone would run into months and that's without any of the paperwork and meetings around the licencing.

And no, because I can see where you'll go next - Sheffield United is not, in the real world, going to come out and advertise a standing section in a seated ground because this is against the law. The upshot is that they will invalidate any insurance policy they hold and piss off the licencing authority.

I envy the naiveite of anyone who has never had to deal with shit like this for a living

I too have dealt with this shit for a living.

They are (at long last it seems) trying to find a defensible position. Standing's not the issue. History shows that that can be managed. Everyone in every part of the ground stands at some stage. Away fans stand all the time, and it seems that's not and issue here, or if it is we don't know. The clear issue is over-occupancy of the area and gangways that are not clear.

The best comparator I can think of is a nightclub. If it's licensed for 300 people and there are 1000 in it, or if a room with space for 30 has 100 people in it, they'd expect to be closed immediately and prosecuted. This is the issue the club faces.

Pure speculation, they've come to renew their insurance and someone from the insurance company has gone along on match day and thought, "hang on...". They've flagged that to the club along the lines of "sort this out or you can forget your public liability" and the club have thought, "sheeet, we best tell SAG to cover our arses." And SAG (having turned a blind eye or been unmotivated to go nuclear on the club)'s gone " sheeeeeet, we best have the club sort this sharpish or we're all in the shit."

No public liability insurance: no matches. Massive embarrassment all round for club, SAG and SSGA. And, for once, this is not on SYP. Pure club issue.

 

[Blades Glory Owls Down]

And as i have said, many times, these lads only do this because there isn't enough spaces for them to buy tickets in standing areas.
The cause of this is people buying tickets 8 rows from the back and asking those infront to sit down.
The 7 rows behind will be congested until this expands.
I agree with you on what the issue is. We disagree on the cause of the problem. IMO the problem exists because disabled people choose to sit 8 rows from the back of our loudest area.

Please for the sake of humanity. Do. Not. Breed.

 

[FB98]

So do something. Join one of the safe standing campaigns. Talk to the SLOs. Lobby the Board.

You're clearly passionate about it.

I've signed the petitions and spoke to Darren Smith. He confirmed the prince wasn't interested because there's no financial benefit and he doesn't understand the culture of attending full stop. There's only so much you can do outside of the ground.

 

[west_yorks_blade]

Please for the sake of humanity. Do. Not. Breed.

Bit harsh mate.

He’s expressing his opinion without once being abusive to anyone. Plus he seems to be in a tiny minority but is prepared to keep arguing his case rather than being browbeaten by everyone who disagrees with him.

Sometimes it’s useful to try and understand the mindset of people you just don’t get. I completely disagree with him btw.

 

[Linz]

I've signed the petitions and spoke to Darren Smith. He confirmed the prince wasn't interested because there's no financial benefit and he doesn't understand the culture of attending full stop. There's only so much you can do outside of the ground.

The Prince needs to be convinced.

So put together a proposal on why the benefits are not simply cost-based. Put together a presentation along with all the "want to sit and the backers" and ask for a meeting with someone from the Club.

 

[dn5 shaun]

Wow. We're all football fans and the 96 died due to the failings of the authorities not moronic actions. RIP.

And Hysel

Wow. We're all football fans and the 96 died due to the failings of the authorities not moronic actions. RIP.

 

[Dkc]

Posted 11 Jan 2020 and still fuck all done and never will be.

Lets be sensible about this and look at it from the point of view of the club wanting to generate extra income as soon as possible from any improvements.

Lets start with the kop, the current capacity is 10,221 with around 196 seats on each row.

Remove the seats from the back 10 rows (VV upwards) and extend back another 20 rows, making the rake steeper for the back 30 rows, make these 30 rows safe standing to increase capacity to 300 per row.

So with the current back 10 rows holding around 1960 and the extended capacity holding 9000 that’s an extra capacity of around 7040, At 400 quid ish for an ST that’s 2,816,000 extra income.

Bung a cantilever roof on top to get rid of the posts and a covered concourse under the new extension, and you have a business model that the club can live with.

Give us 3 years in the Prem then look at the South stand again.

This seriously needs doing. It instantly solves the problem of standing / overcrowding on the kop and provides a new income. The kop would be fucking fantastic. Whether the existing steel frame would support an additional 20 rows I don't know. But installing rail seating at the top of the kop while extending it upwards as far as we can is surely doable. It would also give us a covered concourse at the top.

 

[dn5 shaun]

They obviously don’t like United averaging not far off 30k in the 2nd tier while the pigs lag far behind. Only way they can even it up.

That was the first think that came into my mind.

 

[Blades Glory Owls Down]

Bit harsh mate.

He’s expressing his opinion without once being abusive to anyone. Plus he seems to be in a tiny minority but is prepared to keep arguing his case rather than being browbeaten by everyone who disagrees with him.

Sometimes it’s useful to try and understand the mindset of people you just don’t get. I completely disagree with him btw.

Sorry. I can’t agree. I have read his/her posts on this and there is no browbeating. Only a blinkered viewpoint from them. People have clearly indicated what the real issue is but they can’t grasp it.
I have become increasingly angry at each post made by them purely because they seem to be of the mindset that if you repeat something over and over it becomes established fact.
I tried to explain in a simple, rational way, using real examples. It didn’t work so I tried more bluntly. That didn’t work either.

 

[FB98]

Sorry. I can’t agree. I have read his/her posts on this and there is no browbeating. Only a blinkered viewpoint from them. People have clearly indicated what the real issue is but they can’t grasp it.
I have become increasingly angry at each post made by them purely because they seem to be of the mindset that if you repeat something over and over it becomes established fact.
I tried to explain in a simple, rational way, using real examples. It didn’t work so I tried more bluntly. That didn’t work either.

You explained what the issue was. I agreed. I told you what I considered the cause of the issue & you clearly don't agree.
I really don't think it's outrageous to suggest that people in the most atmospheric section of our ground just 8 rows from the back shouldn't be sitting down.
As i say, there's a much much bigger standing section at almost every club in the country. Many literally 10X as big.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I've signed the petitions and spoke to Darren Smith. He confirmed the prince wasn't interested because there's no financial benefit and he doesn't understand the culture of attending full stop. There's only so much you can do outside of the ground.

The financial success of the club is primarily down to the success of the first team. If the atmosphere you generate is crucial to the success of the first team, then stage a sit down silent protest.

 

[ForgeBlade]

And as i have said, many times, these lads only do this because there isn't enough spaces for them to buy tickets in standing areas.
The cause of this is people buying tickets 8 rows from the back and asking those infront to sit down.
The 7 rows behind will be congested until this expands.
I agree with you on what the issue is. We disagree on the cause of the problem. IMO the problem exists because disabled people choose to sit 8 rows from the back of our loudest area.

There are no standing areas.

There are areas where people stand, and have done for many, many years. This doesn't make them "official" standing areas. They are areas where, up until recently, the club and the authorities were prepared to turn a blind eye as it didn't cause any issues.

Now though, it is causing issues. People who think they have a right to go and stand wherever the fuck they like are causing overcrowding issues, and potentially, god forbid, safety issues in the event of an emergency at the ground.

If someone up towards the back of the kop had a medical emergency, the first aid response would be hampered by having to get through the crowds of "lads" who think the gangway is where they should stand. Or would be hampered getting along a row to a seat because there are 30 people in a space meant for 15.