CW to West Brom

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tomgclarke said:
Calling it now… CW to struggle to get a job in time for the new season. Ego and big headedness to hold him back.

And just for the record i’m a massive CW fan but also can see his short falls.
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What makes you think he wants a job in time for the new season? Has he even applied for any of the available roles?
 

Champagneblade said:
Look back way 18-24 months back and who would have thought the new season may kick off and both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder on the shelf?

There is still a lot of snobbery in football. Please tell me for instance what Gattuso has done of note to get a mention for the Spurs job that makes him more of a safe bet than Wilder.

Wilder had one poor season out of an entire career with an upward trend. From his side, relative to other clubs he can point to some constraints. It's not that he isn't a judge of good players - a lot of his targets went on to better things - he just couldn't get bang for his buck this time around or he favoured players who were just too far back in their development to deliver in the here and now. He can reasonably present that, from his side I mean. I'm not sure as fans we are quite so forgiving.

It just seems that if you are a footballing magician, constantly pulling rabbits out of hats, punching above your weight, then the moment you stop doing that, the stigma remains. You've reached your limitations. Same with Warnock. He's always been relegated from the top level. But when did he ever get a budget there that wasn't a relegation one?

Yet if you're an ex-player with a high profile, chances keep coming your way almost regardless of how you did previously.

Gattuso's first 4 appointments ended in failure. A time for reflection perhaps? No. Not at all.

Due to his ex-player credentials parachuted in as manager of AC Milan. This increased his win percentage as you'd expect a club of such standing but a 6th place followed by a 5th and missing out once more on CL places did for him. So a massive failure for a club of this size.

Game over eh? Nope. Six months later, straight in at another plum job of a team that had been operating at the upper echelons, Napoli. He secured his first silverware winning the Copa Italia but once more, despite boosting his managerial win percentage, guided a team who were prior top 4, outside of the Champions League spots.

Back to lick his wounds and a more modest appointment down the leagues? Not hugely, as he was given another top flight gig in Florence that he stepped away from as they couldn't satisfy his demands. Yes his, serial failure that he is.

It will be interesting where Lampard ends up. Nobody would have suggested when we went up that Lampard as manager of Derby was better than Wilder at United. Ex-player connections kick in and he can point to a decent win percentage at the top level but only with a club of untold resources. He got a free pass first season due to their embargo but he was hardly a pauper. Then spent big and didn't spend wisely enough and had them down in 9th.

If there was less snobbery about then some of the guys who earn their way up might get a shot. Don't get me started on some of the Portuguese managers - Marco Silva, who got a series of chances after failures or Bruno Lage who has somehow aced the Wolves job on the back of some flat track bullying in Portugal and being remarkably given the Benfica first team job after a dozen games at the helm of their B team.
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I'd take issue on Gattuso at Milan. He did get as close to the Champions League as any Milan manager since Max Allegri. The team he inherited was poor and he did a decent job.
 
wilder and howe will both end up with championship jobs before christmas forest are a time bomb with managers if houghton gets off to a bad start could see wilder ending up at the city ground
 
jono_t2000 said:
Feel like Forest would be good fit for Wilder. Local'ish and decent sized club with alot of history that's been dragging it's feet for too long.
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I agree with this - if Wilder is determined to have the same amount of control he enjoyed at United, then he needs a club who is desperate enough to give him the keys to the castle. Forest are a mess and could be that club. Having said that, I'm not sure how hands on Marinakis is.
 
It's as if there's one appointment that needs to be made and the rest will fall into place and take what's left.

Managers floating about are Wilder, Howe, Parker, Lampard (and probably a few others) and discounting Spurs, (looks like Nuno) and Everton (looks like Benitez) then those 4 can fight it out between Palace, Fulham, Bournemouth & Barnsley or hang on and see who gets the chop 10 games into the new season.....

I can see Lampard & Howe at Palace or Fulham, Parker has already been linked with Bournemouth and would fit in there well to be fair which leaves Barnsley as the only realistic destination for CW if he wants a job before the season starts......and I honestly think he will feel it is below him.
 
Le Cynique said:
Wilder's one strike was a spectacular fall from grace though in which his stubborn-headed battles with the owner and board were well-publicised. That kind of stain is going to be hard to overlook when people are considering him for a role.

I get your point about big-name ex-players getting a free pass, and I think it's pretty shitty too. I don't like the man, but I have to respect what John Terry has done with learning his trade as a number 2 rather than demanding a top-flight managerial position as his first role.
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I do agree that Chris got hugely carried away with himself. It shouldn't make him unemployable but he was very naive to think he could shout the odds and there not be consequences long term. I wouldn't do that with my boss or expect that from people reporting to me either.

I don't like Terry either but you are right, he's doing the hard yards his own way.
 
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Pedro Verde said:
If Wilder is to get a decent job in Management he will have to alter his attitude towards the modern owner and the way these ownwers like to do things. DOF etc
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Wilder won't see himself as a 'custodian' of another club. This was his club, and that's how he managed it.
 
jono_t2000 said:
Feel like Forest would be good fit for Wilder. Local'ish and decent sized club with alot of history that's been dragging it's feet for too long.
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Absolutely it would be that type of club. For the same rationale, I'd go for Derby, even if they are in L1, and because Rooney is no manager.
 
Alot seems to be said about Wilder needing to alter his attitude to how other clubs are run.
I think more has probably been made of what transpired here with him. I don't think he's anti - DOF. I don't think he's necessarily got to be on top of all the transfers either for a new club.

What happened was a culmination of events/decisions that ultimately meant that Wilder and the Prince didn't quite see eye to eye and the trust wasn't there anymore.
Not sure where he will end up though but wouldn't be surprised if said club had a structure like that in place. West Brom did seem like a good fit.
 
Think Howe will get a very decent job whenever he decides he wants one. It’s not a case of clubs not wanting him but rather him not really wanting to come back to football yet.
 

Come from away said:
Likely true for Chris as well !
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I don’t know with wilder I think he’s less attractive for a lot of reasons. I don’t necessarily think he’s a worse manager but he’s fighting an up hill battle compared with Howe. He’s older, Northern, straight talking, abrasive and has a bit of black spot on his cv with how he left us. Whereas Howe is younger, trendier, has a better reputation in the press and left Bournemouth amicably.

All those things make him a more marketable option for prem sides.
 
Wilder is nailed on for Derby or Sunderland if they part with their gaffers
 
Got a gut feeling that wilder may end up at Sunderland, I see the potential for him to repeat the feat that he did at utd.

If he gets them going, the fans will buy in big time, then the sky's the limit as its a big club that's been constantly floundering, I dont know who's currently at Sunderland because it's a proper revolving door there like it was for us before wilder.. (dont care enough to look).

Whilst wilder is not a top 6 manager in the Premier league, he also doesn't carry the baggage of needing a high profile appointment, Sunderland would be a typical fit for Wilder...

Sunderland are not an ordinary club by any stretch of the imagination, BTW..
 
Tezza1889 said:
As I was writing... Great minds eh..
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They are both ‘big’ clubs so his ego won’t be damaged by going there even in the leagues and positions they finished.

They are both ‘projects’ similar to like what we were.

They would both present a ‘no lose’ situation for him and pressure would largely be off.

That’s when he operates best and I would expect him to go well at either club like you said.
 
Yogi said:
I don’t know with wilder I think he’s less attractive for a lot of reasons. I don’t necessarily think he’s a worse manager but he’s fighting an up hill battle compared with Howe. He’s older, Northern, straight talking, abrasive and has a bit of black spot on his cv with how he left us. Whereas Howe is younger, trendier, has a better reputation in the press and left Bournemouth amicably.

All those things make him a more marketable option for prem sides.
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Didn't Howe want the Celtic job recently but couldn't persuade them to take his backroom staff Yogi? We obviously don't know the cost but I'm surprised it was a deal breaker.

I agree with what you say but even with CW's obvious shortcomings last season, I know which of the two I'd want to be manager at my club if I were an owner or supporter.
 
Yogi said:
I don’t know with wilder I think he’s less attractive for a lot of reasons. I don’t necessarily think he’s a worse manager but he’s fighting an up hill battle compared with Howe. He’s older, Northern, straight talking, abrasive and has a bit of black spot on his cv with how he left us. Whereas Howe is younger, trendier, has a better reputation in the press and left Bournemouth amicably.

All those things make him a more marketable option for prem sides.
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Howe also quit Burnley and spent a lot of time flirting with Celtic before turning them down. However amicably he left Bournemouth, he got them relegated. His apparent reluctance to move anywhere north of Winchester is going to cause concern for owners of clubs in the north. I’m not convinced he’d be much more attractive to the likes of Forest or Derby than Wilder would be. If he’s lucky, he might get Palace. Otherwise I can only see somewhere like Fulham. Maybe Southampton if Hassenhutl left as he’s an ex player but I can’t imagine their supporters would be overjoyed about getting a manager who got relegated in his last job.
 
Mouth of the South said:
Didn't Howe want the Celtic job recently but couldn't persuade them to take his backroom staff Yogi? We obviously don't know the cost but I'm surprised it was a deal breaker.

I agree with what you say but even with CW's obvious shortcomings last season, I know which of the two I'd want to be manager at my club if I were an owner or supporter.
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I think that’s an indication of what Howe wants out of a job i.e. he wasn’t particularly sold on celtic and wanted them to convince him which they ultimately failed to do.
 
BushBlade said:
Howe also quit Burnley and spent a lot of time flirting with Celtic before turning them down. However amicably he left Bournemouth, he got them relegated. His apparent reluctance to move anywhere north of Winchester is going to cause concern for owners of clubs in the north. I’m not convinced he’d be much more attractive to the likes of Forest or Derby than Wilder would be. If he’s lucky, he might get Palace. Otherwise I can only see somewhere like Fulham. Maybe Southampton if Hassenhutl left as he’s an ex player but I can’t imagine their supporters would be overjoyed about getting a manager who got relegated in his last job.
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I agree in terms of Northern clubs. However, I’d argue the footballing reality is that outside of the Manchester and Liverpool sides there aren’t many really upper echelon Northern club jobs. Despite club size and stature most London and south coast clubs are probably more attractive prospects at the moment.
 
Haven't forest got a rich owner who interferes in everything?

Seems like a good fit for Derby tbh. Rooney seems to be there for the takeover that may never happen. He'll also get Waghorn.
 
Yogi said:
I agree in terms of Northern clubs. However, I’d argue the footballing reality is that outside of the Manchester and Liverpool sides there aren’t many really upper echelon Northern club jobs. Despite club size and stature most London and south coast clubs are probably more attractive prospects at the moment.
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They may be but I can’t see him at either Spurs, Arsenal or Chelsea. Imagine the outcry if they got a manager who’d just been relegated. Or even West Ham for that matter (and I don’t think Moyes is going anywhere soon). If it’s not Palace or Southampton, then it’s probably a championship club. I think he’s in a similar situation to Wilder, albeit I can’t see them competing for many of the same jobs. He also has a reputation for liking a lot of control over the club.
 
robbiez666 said:
Haven't forest got a rich owner who interferes in everything?

Seems like a good fit for Derby tbh. Rooney seems to be there for the takeover that may never happen. He'll also get Waghorn.
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Perhaps it's a sign of how much CW's stock has fallen but if you'd asked him 12 months ago about his next job, I would expect him to have said a top 6 Prem club rather than relegation contenders in the Champ.

That said, I'm still not sure Derby would appeal to him - they're in a mess from the repeatedly aborted sale, are still under the threat of a points deduction and therefore relegation, don't own their ground (although I'm not sure whether the asset will be repurchased via any acquisition), their squad is a long way from being good enough to compete at the top end of the division and unless the club are indeed sold and the new owners provide a warchest, there won't be a fortune to spend on new players.

One of the few things going for them however, is a very good Cat 1 academy that has delivered a fair number of decent pros. I'm still not sure that would be enough to persuade CW to join and ultimately stake his reputation on - his next job will be key and determine the level he'll manage at in future. If he does well, he'll become attractive again Prem/top end Champ clubs, if not, he'll spend the rest of his career at lower level clubs.
 
BushBlade said:
They may be but I can’t see him at either Spurs, Arsenal or Chelsea. Imagine the outcry if they got a manager who’d just been relegated. Or even West Ham for that matter (and I don’t think Moyes is going anywhere soon). If it’s not Palace or Southampton, then it’s probably a championship club. I think he’s in a similar situation to Wilder, albeit I can’t see them competing for many of the same jobs. He also has a reputation for liking a lot of control over the club.
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I can see him at Palace, Fulham, Southampton, Brighton. All those clubs either fit or want to move towards his footballing philosophy. Outside of those which would be my obvious picks for him I can see West Ham down the road when Moyes leaves although I think they might also have taken a punt on wilder if moyes had worked out differently.

I think you’re right in terms of both wanting a lot of control over clubs and that being to their detriment currently. The big difference for me is interview style and the way they handle the media. Wilder is chippy, abrasive and aggressive at times and we loved him for it because he came across as someone we’ve all interacted with at one time or another it was very familiar. The issue is he has a history of saying things in interviews which from an owners point of view you wouldn’t want said and that will count against him.

Whereas Howe is much more polished and paint by numbers in his interview style and that makes him a safer bet for prem clubs with sponsors etc he’s just more marketable and unfortunately that counts for more than it should in football.
 

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