CW to West Brom

[Champagneblade]

This is very much Captain Hindsight Keen. Firstly, we all know strikers cost a lot, and when we signed Brewster I can remember how over the moon the fanbase was that we'd signed a really exciting England under 21 international who'd scored 11 in 22 for Swansea. We struggled for goals in the first season up, from Christmas onwards it became obvious for reasons not many can fathom that Mousset was not the same player and we needed competition for the role he provided.

Lundstram had an excellent first season as did Fleck and Norwood, and we also had Berge newly signed. Yes we needed another, particularly a creative midfielder but again you have to take yourself back to last pre-season and where we were then. Wilder clearly did want a centre mid, hence the protracted pursuit of John Swift. He also wanted a JOC replacement and said so publicly. We can only assume that the impasse between the Prince and Wilder over recruitment resulted in why we didn't sign another centre mid or a JOC replacement, that my have been Wilder's fault but we don't know.

From your post it appears you're saying it was wrong to sign Brewster because that blew the bulk of the budget when there were other areas in the team that needed strengthening, but you're assuming that by signing Brewster we didn't have the money left to bring in other players, and again, I'm not so sure this was the case, more that Wilder and the Prince couldn't agree on targets as the Prince likely suggested players that Wilder didn't want, and Wilder pursued players that for whatever reason the club couldn't get over the line.

Isn't the issue though that we were scrambling around in the loan market to get a replacement for O'Connell, who was injured not long after the restart and didn't fully recover?

Surely that was a priority over a 6th striker?

You rightly mention Swift. But having failed to convince Reading to part with him - phew because he solidified his reputation as a crock not long afterwards - who did we go for?

Without giving much thought to it, Jake Cooper from Millwall is a huge left footed centre back who also gets forward. Hourihane was not in Villa's plans and would have been better than Lundstram, a half hearted Lundstram especially. It seems when we couldn't get the ones on Mitch's bit of paper we just gave up and went ahead with the 6th striker bid.

 

[FriethBlade]

Champagne....Cooper is a good shout, we've been linked with him before.

However this JOC replacement argument is a red herring. Wilder signed Robinson as a back up to JOC and we'd got Bryan so I'm not surprised the board weren't keen on bringing in another left sided defender

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

He’ll make allardyce look like pep. I can’t believe how shambolic a lot of clubs have been in appointing managers this summer. Makes us look decisive.

I saw Lineker effectively interviewing Klinsmann for the Spurs job yesterday, suppose you could offer a defence re WBA & their search, limited by funds, Championship status & location, but Spurs, Everton and Palace seem to be going round in circles

 

[Yogi]

I saw Lineker effectively interviewing Klinsmann for the Spurs job yesterday, suppose you could offer a defence re WBA & their search, limited by funds, Championship status & location, but Spurs, Everton and Palace seem to be going round in circles

I’d say WBA have mitigating factors but not being able to attract Appleton is a big red flag. The prem sides I don’t understand what’s happening there at all especially spurs.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

I’d say WBA have mitigating factors but not being able to attract Appleton is a big red flag. The prem sides I don’t understand what’s happening there at all especially spurs.

Think it's a massive red flag, Appleton turning them down, ex player and coach, knows the club & area inside out, knew he was on the shortlist for weeks, if not months, presumably entered into talks etc then says no, seems odd, he must have known the likely salary and any other 'restrictions' re transfer funds.
As for Spurs, they seem to be picking random names from a very large hat, with no particular criteria for any kind of identity or tactics, its almost impossible but all the names mentioned don't seem to share a particular tactic or style, about the only thing they have in common is, they are foreign

 

[Yogi]

Think it's a massive red flag, Appleton turning them down, ex player and coach, knows the club & area inside out, knew he was on the shortlist for weeks, if not months, presumably entered into talks etc then says no, seems odd, he must have known the likely salary and any other 'restrictions' re transfer funds.
As for Spurs, they seem to be picking random names from a very large hat, with no particular criteria for any kind of identity or tactics, its almost impossible but all the names mentioned don't seem to share a particular tactic or style, about the only thing they have in common is, they are foreign

Especially when you consider the relative situations of Lincoln and West Brom. Appleton was in the underwhelming but we could definitely get him category for me when he was mentioned in connection with us. Spurs situation seems worse than Everton, palace and West Brom’s though as it’s a situation of spurs own making they proactively sacked mourinho whereas the managers left those other clubs. It would seem other than vague wanting someone from Seria A there’s no distinct plan at spurs which speaks to some chaos behind the scenes and maybe levy losing his grip on the running of the club imo.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

Especially when you consider the relative situations of Lincoln and West Brom. Appleton was in the underwhelming but we could definitely get him category for me when he was mentioned in connection with us. Spurs situation seems worse than Everton, palace and West Brom’s though as it’s a situation of spurs own making they proactively sacked mourinho whereas the managers left those other clubs. It would seem other than vague wanting someone from Seria A there’s no distinct plan at spurs which speaks to some chaos behind the scenes and maybe levy losing his grip on the running of the club imo.

Agree completely, of all the names linked to WBA, Appleton appeared to be the easiest to get, the timing/refusal seems odd, leaves neither party in a good place, WBA still looking and Lincoln thinking Appleton might jump at the next offer from another club.
Spurs like other clubs, seem to be struggling in how to replace Mourinho, I get the reasoning for sacking him, but seemingly no idea of a replacement, Everton in a similar position with their much vaunted 5 year plan, okay manager quitting without warning, they were caught off guard,, as for Palace, you could argue they knew for at least 12 months, Hodgson was going to quit, other than the semi permanent rumour of Dyche taking over, again no plan b

 

[Yogi]

Agree completely, of all the names linked to WBA, Appleton appeared to be the easiest to get, the timing/refusal seems odd, leaves neither party in a good place, WBA still looking and Lincoln thinking Appleton might jump at the next offer from another club.
Spurs like other clubs, seem to be struggling in how to replace Mourinho, I get the reasoning for sacking him, but seemingly no idea of a replacement, Everton in a similar position with their much vaunted 5 year plan, okay manager quitting without warning, they were caught off guard,, as for Palace, you could argue they knew for at least 12 months, Hodgson was going to quit, other than the semi permanent rumour of Dyche taking over, again no plan b

The relative silence from palace makes me wonder if they’ve got their eye on someone at the euros

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

The relative silence from palace makes me wonder if they’ve got their eye on someone at the euros

Southgate,,,

 

[Yogi]

Southgate,,,

It would be very palace if it was but probably not.

 

[Booker4]

Isn't the issue though that we were scrambling around in the loan market to get a replacement for O'Connell, who was injured not long after the restart and didn't fully recover?

Surely that was a priority over a 6th striker?

You rightly mention Swift. But having failed to convince Reading to part with him - phew because he solidified his reputation as a crock not long afterwards - who did we go for?

Without giving much thought to it, Jake Cooper from Millwall is a huge left footed centre back who also gets forward. Hourihane was not in Villa's plans and would have been better than Lundstram, a half hearted Lundstram especially. It seems when we couldn't get the ones on Mitch's bit of paper we just gave up and went ahead with the 6th striker bid.

With respect Champagne, much of what you say is conjecture. Maybe Wilder wanted Hourihane, we just don't know. What we know was that Wilder wanted reinforcements for midfield but wasn't backed in January, probably because by that point the relationship was at breaking point. We had two weeks before the deadline to get a JOC replacement, as I said on previous post, Wilder mentioned more than once he wanted a replacement, but for whatever reason we or the club couldn't manage it. When you say the 6th striker wasn't a priority over JOC's replacement, you're right, but by then the Brewster deal was nearing completion, and also we don't know if by signing Brewster it meant all the budget was gone, I suspect that there was money left for JOC replacement, but Wilder and the board couldn't agree on targets.

Cooper's a good shout, we've been linked before, but I suspect Wilder wanted a loan because JOC is such a good player and JOC was expected to be fit come February/March time, but more importantly we don't know who Wilder wanted and who the board may have wanted differently or why we didn't get a replacement; it's a question we'd all like to know. I think some on this board think Wilder wanted Brewster and that was all he wanted! We know he wanted a JOC replacement and midfield replacements, but maybe the only one he could get over the line was Brewster.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

It would be very palace if it was but probably not.

Easy to lump Spurs,Everton and Palace together re their search for a manager, but the annual Zaha wants a transfer/move has just kicked in, aren't several players are out of contract as well? And presumably the injury to Eze has been the only thing stopping several transfer stories linking him to a big move, bringing in a new manager is always a gamble, but if Palace don't get it right, they might really struggle next season,

 

[Yogi]

Easy to lump Spurs,Everton and Palace together re their search for a manager, but the annual Zaha wants a transfer/move has just kicked in, aren't several players are out of contract as well? And presumably the injury to Eze has been the only thing stopping several transfer stories linking him to a big move, bringing in a new manager is always a gamble, but if Palace don't get it right, they might really struggle next season,

Think 12 have technically been released by palace as it stands although some might get contract offers when the appoint a new manager.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

Think 12 have technically been released by palace as it stands although some might get contract offers when the appoint a new manageris

Doesn't add up does it, how can you be aware and switched on in terms of contracts running down and letting the new manager decide, but not being aware Hodgson is going to walk, you would have thought contact/chats had taken place with potential targets last season, and rumours would have leaked if it was either a big name or a shock name ( Rossi, Hungary manager)
Having said that, its interesting to read 'we' have appointed a middle man to make initial contact with clubs/players, do the research on who is available and at what costs, before the recruitment team come in and get a deal finalised

 

[Yogi]

Doesn't add up does it, how can you be aware and switched on in terms of contracts running down and letting the new manager decide, but not being aware Hodgson is going to walk, you would have thought contact/chats had taken place with potential targets last season, and rumours would have leaked if it was either a big name or a shock name ( Rossi, Hungary manager)
Having said that, its interesting to read 'we' have appointed a middle man to make initial contact with clubs/players, do the research on who is available and at what costs, before the recruitment team come in and get a deal finalised

I honestly don’t know what’s going on but a lot of clubs seem to be being run very sloppily this summer I don’t know if it’s because owners attentions are elsewhere due to the pandemic.

I think we’re certainly seeing a evolution in how united do business and a more integrated approach across united world. I think things like that are probably what put wilders back up and whilst it’s not going as far as appointing a DoF it is a more collaborative approach to recruitment than was the case when wilder came in.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

I honestly don’t know what’s going on but a lot of clubs seem to be being run very sloppily this summer I don’t know if it’s because owners attentions are elsewhere due to the pandemic.

I think we’re certainly seeing a evolution in how united do business and a more integrated approach across united world. I think things like that are probably what put wilders back up and whilst it’s not going as far as appointing a DoF it is a more collaborative approach to recruitment than was the case when wilder came in.

Seems really odd, especially the WBA appraoch, Wilder nailed on, owner says no, then long negotiations with Wagner and Appleton who both walk away, presumably having been interested/tempted, as for Spurs & Everton its almost like they are confused who to appoint because there are so many choices.
Agree re Evolution and United world, time and results will obviously be an indicator of if it works or not, but looking in from the outside, everything so far, seems a common sense, kind of why didn't we do that before, idea/plan

 

[Mouth of the South]

Seems really odd, especially the WBA appraoch, Wilder nailed on, owner says no, then long negotiations with Wagner and Appleton who both walk away, presumably having been interested/tempted, as for Spurs & Everton its almost like they are confused who to appoint because there are so many choices.
Agree re Evolution and United world, time and results will obviously be an indicator of if it works or not, but looking in from the outside, everything so far, seems a common sense, kind of why didn't we do that before, idea/plan

Can you imagine the meltdown on here had it been Utd rather than WBA? The toys would really have been thrown out of the pram by some.

 

[Yogi]

Seems really odd, especially the WBA appraoch, Wilder nailed on, owner says no, then long negotiations with Wagner and Appleton who both walk away, presumably having been interested/tempted, as for Spurs & Everton its almost like they are confused who to appoint because there are so many choices.
Agree re Evolution and United world, time and results will obviously be an indicator of if it works or not, but looking in from the outside, everything so far, seems a common sense, kind of why didn't we do that before, idea/plan

I think the reasons we didn’t do it before is probably because the prince had given up hope of us being competitive after the years in league one so was just letting things drift. Wilder came in and was wildly successful without many expectations from the owners and catapulted us back to relevance.

 

[Snowflake]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here had it been Utd rather than WBA? The toys would really have been thrown out of the pram by some.

In those circumstances the pram would have been kidney punched.

 

[Hagansbootlaces]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here had it been Utd rather than WBA? The toys would really have been thrown out of the pram by some.

When you think of the meltdown a few had, about the names that were supposed to be on the shortlist, with zero proof, just speculation from the press, if we had done anything like WBA the car park would be full of shoes!

 

[Mouth of the South]

When you think of the meltdown a few had, about the names that were supposed to be on the shortlist, with zero proof, just speculation from the press, if we had done anything like WBA the car park would be full of shoes!

Ah yes, I've never really got the fascination that quite a number of Unitedites seem to have with threatening to take their shoes off in the South Stand car park at every opportunity! McCabe loses in court - shoes off! Brooks is sold - shoes off! CW leaves (i.e. walks) - shoes off! Heckingbottom is appointed caretaker - shoes off! Club is relegated - shoes off! I daren't think what will happen if something really bad happens to the club i.e. on the scale of what Chansiri has masterminded at the Massive. It will look like there's been an explosion at the Clarkes factory from Cherry St!

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

As WBA opt for a version of hoof that even Fat Sam might refuse, breaking news suggests Ismael has taken on much tougher gigs in the past, and prevailed:

 

[tomgclarke]

Calling it now… CW to struggle to get a job in time for the new season. Ego and big headedness to hold him back.

And just for the record i’m a massive CW fan but also can see his short falls.

 

[Champagneblade]

Calling it now… CW to struggle to get a job in time for the new season. Ego and big headedness to hold him back.

And just for the record i’m a massive CW fan but also can see his short falls.

Look back way 18-24 months back and who would have thought the new season may kick off and both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder on the shelf?

There is still a lot of snobbery in football. Please tell me for instance what Gattuso has done of note to get a mention for the Spurs job that makes him more of a safe bet than Wilder.

Wilder had one poor season out of an entire career with an upward trend. From his side, relative to other clubs he can point to some constraints. It's not that he isn't a judge of good players - a lot of his targets went on to better things - he just couldn't get bang for his buck this time around or he favoured players who were just too far back in their development to deliver in the here and now. He can reasonably present that, from his side I mean. I'm not sure as fans we are quite so forgiving.

It just seems that if you are a footballing magician, constantly pulling rabbits out of hats, punching above your weight, then the moment you stop doing that, the stigma remains. You've reached your limitations. Same with Warnock. He's always been relegated from the top level. But when did he ever get a budget there that wasn't a relegation one?

Yet if you're an ex-player with a high profile, chances keep coming your way almost regardless of how you did previously.

Gattuso's first 4 appointments ended in failure. A time for reflection perhaps? No. Not at all.

Due to his ex-player credentials parachuted in as manager of AC Milan. This increased his win percentage as you'd expect a club of such standing but a 6th place followed by a 5th and missing out once more on CL places did for him. So a massive failure for a club of this size.

Game over eh? Nope. Six months later, straight in at another plum job of a team that had been operating at the upper echelons, Napoli. He secured his first silverware winning the Copa Italia but once more, despite boosting his managerial win percentage, guided a team who were prior top 4, outside of the Champions League spots.

Back to lick his wounds and a more modest appointment down the leagues? Not hugely, as he was given another top flight gig in Florence that he stepped away from as they couldn't satisfy his demands. Yes his, serial failure that he is.

It will be interesting where Lampard ends up. Nobody would have suggested when we went up that Lampard as manager of Derby was better than Wilder at United. Ex-player connections kick in and he can point to a decent win percentage at the top level but only with a club of untold resources. He got a free pass first season due to their embargo but he was hardly a pauper. Then spent big and didn't spend wisely enough and had them down in 9th.

If there was less snobbery about then some of the guys who earn their way up might get a shot. Don't get me started on some of the Portuguese managers - Marco Silva, who got a series of chances after failures or Bruno Lage who has somehow aced the Wolves job on the back of some flat track bullying in Portugal and being remarkably given the Benfica first team job after a dozen games at the helm of their B team.

 

[Le Cynique]

Look back way 18-24 months back and who would have thought the new season may kick off and both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder on the shelf?

There is still a lot of snobbery in football. Please tell me for instance what Gattuso has done of note to get a mention for the Spurs job that makes him more of a safe bet than Wilder.

Wilder had one poor season out of an entire career with an upward trend. From his side, relative to other clubs he can point to some constraints. It's not that he isn't a judge of good players - a lot of his targets went on to better things - he just couldn't get bang for his buck this time around or he favoured players who were just too far back in their development to deliver in the here and now. He can reasonably present that, from his side I mean. I'm not sure as fans we are quite so forgiving.

It just seems that if you are a footballing magician, constantly pulling rabbits out of hats, punching above your weight, then the moment you stop doing that, the stigma remains. You've reached your limitations. Same with Warnock. He's always been relegated from the top level. But when did he ever get a budget there that wasn't a relegation one?

Yet if you're an ex-player with a high profile, chances keep coming your way almost regardless of how you did previously.

Gattuso's first 4 appointments ended in failure. A time for reflection perhaps? No. Not at all.

Due to his ex-player credentials parachuted in as manager of AC Milan. This increased his win percentage as you'd expect a club of such standing but a 6th place followed by a 5th and missing out once more on CL places did for him. So a massive failure for a club of this size.

Game over eh? Nope. Six months later, straight in at another plum job of a team that had been operating at the upper echelons, Napoli. He secured his first silverware winning the Copa Italia but once more, despite boosting his managerial win percentage, guided a team who were prior top 4, outside of the Champions League spots.

Back to lick his wounds and a more modest appointment down the leagues? Not hugely, as he was given another top flight gig in Florence that he stepped away from as they couldn't satisfy his demands. Yes his, serial failure that he is.

It will be interesting where Lampard ends up. Nobody would have suggested when we went up that Lampard as manager of Derby was better than Wilder at United. Ex-player connections kick in and he can point to a decent win percentage at the top level but only with a club of untold resources. He got a free pass first season due to their embargo but he was hardly a pauper. Then spent big and didn't spend wisely enough and had them down in 9th.

If there was less snobbery about then some of the guys who earn their way up might get a shot. Don't get me started on some of the Portuguese managers - Marco Silva, who got a series of chances after failures or Bruno Lage who has somehow aced the Wolves job on the back of some flat track bullying in Portugal and being remarkably given the Benfica first team job after a dozen games at the helm of their B team.

I had to stop reading this when you advocated Wilder for the Spurs job. I can’t think of two more badly-matched bedfellows

 

[robbiez666]

Look back way 18-24 months back and who would have thought the new season may kick off and both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder on the shelf?

There is still a lot of snobbery in football. Please tell me for instance what Gattuso has done of note to get a mention for the Spurs job that makes him more of a safe bet than Wilder.

Wilder had one poor season out of an entire career with an upward trend. From his side, relative to other clubs he can point to some constraints. It's not that he isn't a judge of good players - a lot of his targets went on to better things - he just couldn't get bang for his buck this time around or he favoured players who were just too far back in their development to deliver in the here and now. He can reasonably present that, from his side I mean. I'm not sure as fans we are quite so forgiving.

It just seems that if you are a footballing magician, constantly pulling rabbits out of hats, punching above your weight, then the moment you stop doing that, the stigma remains. You've reached your limitations. Same with Warnock. He's always been relegated from the top level. But when did he ever get a budget there that wasn't a relegation one?

Yet if you're an ex-player with a high profile, chances keep coming your way almost regardless of how you did previously.

Gattuso's first 4 appointments ended in failure. A time for reflection perhaps? No. Not at all.

Due to his ex-player credentials parachuted in as manager of AC Milan. This increased his win percentage as you'd expect a club of such standing but a 6th place followed by a 5th and missing out once more on CL places did for him. So a massive failure for a club of this size.

Game over eh? Nope. Six months later, straight in at another plum job of a team that had been operating at the upper echelons, Napoli. He secured his first silverware winning the Copa Italia but once more, despite boosting his managerial win percentage, guided a team who were prior top 4, outside of the Champions League spots.

Back to lick his wounds and a more modest appointment down the leagues? Not hugely, as he was given another top flight gig in Florence that he stepped away from as they couldn't satisfy his demands. Yes his, serial failure that he is.

It will be interesting where Lampard ends up. Nobody would have suggested when we went up that Lampard as manager of Derby was better than Wilder at United. Ex-player connections kick in and he can point to a decent win percentage at the top level but only with a club of untold resources. He got a free pass first season due to their embargo but he was hardly a pauper. Then spent big and didn't spend wisely enough and had them down in 9th.

If there was less snobbery about then some of the guys who earn their way up might get a shot. Don't get me started on some of the Portuguese managers - Marco Silva, who got a series of chances after failures or Bruno Lage who has somehow aced the Wolves job on the back of some flat track bullying in Portugal and being remarkably given the Benfica first team job after a dozen games at the helm of their B team.

and I got as far as Lampard spending big, when in truth he had no control over trsnsfers but had to try and fit in 2 seasons worth of players, with no PL experience, to a young squad.

 

[Champagneblade]

I had to stop reading this when you advocated Wilder for the Spurs job. I can’t think of two more badly-matched bedfellows

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting he's a good fit for Spurs exactly. I know their structure is far less laissez-faire than he's used to.

The suggestion is simply ex-players with a 'name' like Gattuso absolutely don't deserve any mention yet seem to get a universal free pass despite proving themselves over and over to be abject managers.

Yet Wilder and Howe to an extent seem to be one strike and out.

Lampard getting the Chelsea job in the first place was a joke.

Tutchel's mid-season appointment and 30 matches show what a decent manager could do with those players.

 

[Le Cynique]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting he's a good fit for Spurs exactly. I know their structure is far less laissez-faire than he's used to.

The suggestion is simply ex-players with a 'name' like Gattuso absolutely don't deserve any mention yet seem to get a universal free pass despite proving themselves over and over to be abject managers.

Yet Wilder and Howe to an extent seem to be one strike and out.

Lampard getting the Chelsea job in the first place was a joke.

Tutchel's mid-season appointment and 30 matches show what a decent manager could do with those players.

Wilder's one strike was a spectacular fall from grace though in which his stubborn-headed battles with the owner and board were well-publicised. That kind of stain is going to be hard to overlook when people are considering him for a role.

I get your point about big-name ex-players getting a free pass, and I think it's pretty shitty too. I don't like the man, but I have to respect what John Terry has done with learning his trade as a number 2 rather than demanding a top-flight managerial position as his first role.

 

[ancientblade]

both wilder and howe are certs to be back in a managers job by the end of october at the latest once a couple have been sacked

 

[Booker4]

Look back way 18-24 months back and who would have thought the new season may kick off and both Eddie Howe and Chris Wilder on the shelf?

There is still a lot of snobbery in football. Please tell me for instance what Gattuso has done of note to get a mention for the Spurs job that makes him more of a safe bet than Wilder.

Wilder had one poor season out of an entire career with an upward trend. From his side, relative to other clubs he can point to some constraints. It's not that he isn't a judge of good players - a lot of his targets went on to better things - he just couldn't get bang for his buck this time around or he favoured players who were just too far back in their development to deliver in the here and now. He can reasonably present that, from his side I mean. I'm not sure as fans we are quite so forgiving.

It just seems that if you are a footballing magician, constantly pulling rabbits out of hats, punching above your weight, then the moment you stop doing that, the stigma remains. You've reached your limitations. Same with Warnock. He's always been relegated from the top level. But when did he ever get a budget there that wasn't a relegation one?

Yet if you're an ex-player with a high profile, chances keep coming your way almost regardless of how you did previously.

Gattuso's first 4 appointments ended in failure. A time for reflection perhaps? No. Not at all.

Due to his ex-player credentials parachuted in as manager of AC Milan. This increased his win percentage as you'd expect a club of such standing but a 6th place followed by a 5th and missing out once more on CL places did for him. So a massive failure for a club of this size.

Game over eh? Nope. Six months later, straight in at another plum job of a team that had been operating at the upper echelons, Napoli. He secured his first silverware winning the Copa Italia but once more, despite boosting his managerial win percentage, guided a team who were prior top 4, outside of the Champions League spots.

Back to lick his wounds and a more modest appointment down the leagues? Not hugely, as he was given another top flight gig in Florence that he stepped away from as they couldn't satisfy his demands. Yes his, serial failure that he is.

It will be interesting where Lampard ends up. Nobody would have suggested when we went up that Lampard as manager of Derby was better than Wilder at United. Ex-player connections kick in and he can point to a decent win percentage at the top level but only with a club of untold resources. He got a free pass first season due to their embargo but he was hardly a pauper. Then spent big and didn't spend wisely enough and had them down in 9th.

If there was less snobbery about then some of the guys who earn their way up might get a shot. Don't get me started on some of the Portuguese managers - Marco Silva, who got a series of chances after failures or Bruno Lage who has somehow aced the Wolves job on the back of some flat track bullying in Portugal and being remarkably given the Benfica first team job after a dozen games at the helm of their B team.

I agree on your points on Wilder. He's not a good fit for Spurs, but saying that I could see him doing well there. Eddie Howe would be more suitable. Wilder will have to wait now if he wants a job in England at the level he'll want. I would imagine he'll be itching to get back now. He doesn't strike me as the type that is happy to wait a long time like what Adkins had to do when he left Hull.

Few things I don't agree with though. Warnock didn't get a League One budget when he was with us in the Prem or with Cardiff either. Ok, it wasn't amazing but it was more money than he'd ever spent and he pulled off some good buys like Hulse and Kilgallon, but some weird ones exploring the foreign market. Gattutso did have some success at Pisa, he got them promoted, albeit then relegated. He had problems with the financial side at Crete it seems also, similar to our nearest rivals!

But sadly it is true that a good playing career gets you elevated to jobs you'd never get without the good playing career, over lesser players come managers who've done well managing. I think Wilder's reputation is stained partly because of how he conducted himself in his last few months and his open criticism of the board. That may have backfired on him a little, such as missing out on the Albion job.

He may now have to manage a middle of the road Championship club like Preston to get back into football in the short term, or wait longer for a bigger club which could be a while longer yet.