£17.5M profit last year.

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Superblades said:
This isn’t aimed at you Carlton Blade.

When the Prince took over he said the club will be paying for the ground out of the money from the Prem. He also said the aim was to make the club stand on its own as he believed it could. I don’t know why people are suddenly surprised to see PA doing exactly what he said it would.
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Well if the Glazers can do it at Man' U why not here
 



Rodley said:
Mate we are now not sustainable.

If we want to run a sustainable club in the Championship we’ll finish bottom of the league. It doesn’t exist.
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I think we’ll be sustainable for the first two years of the parachute payments. After that, they reduce for the final year. We may have to sell players at that point. Once they’ve run out, you’re correct, if we haven’t gone up by then, we’re in the shit again.
Which is why, as I keep stressing, we cannot afford to take gambles on who is the next manager. No Blackwells, Robsons or Luhukays. And our recruitment needs to take into account the possibility we don’t go up. Some of the players we bring in must have a potential re-sale value, and we have to hope some of the young players we have now develop into good senior players.

When we got relegated previously, we only had two years of parachute payments and the second year it was reduced by around £8m. Blackwell raised that money by selling the Kyles. He then wasted the fucking lot on stupid wages for ordinary players, loans, short term signings and crocks like France. If PA allows a manager to do that again, he’ll end up losing the club and we’ll be stuck until we find another Wilder.
 
BushBlade said:
I think we’ll be sustainable for the first two years of the parachute payments. After that, they reduce for the final year. We may have to sell players at that point. Once they’ve run out, you’re correct, if we haven’t gone up by then, we’re in the shit again.
Which is why, as I keep stressing, we cannot afford to take gambles on who is the next manager. No Blackwells, Robsons or Luhukays. And our recruitment needs to take into account the possibility we don’t go up. Some of the players we bring in must have a potential re-sale value, and we have to hope some of the young players we have now develop into good senior players.

When we got relegated previously, we only had two years of parachute payments and the second year it was reduced by around £8m. Blackwell raised that money by selling the Kyles. He then wasted the fucking lot on stupid wages for ordinary players, loans, short term signings and crocks like France. If PA allows a manager to do that again, he’ll end up losing the club and we’ll be stuck until we find another Wilder.
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I’m on the same page. There’s no scope for having a punt on a manager. We need a proven Championship manager who has got promotions. Jokanovic is the man IMHO.
 
corner_flag said:
Why do you see a profit as a good thing? That means money potentially going FROM the club into the owner's pocket.
We needed to make about a £50m loss in each of the first 2 years to get our squad up to sustainable Premier League standards
But after a couple of years, we would be able to operate at break-even and still compete.

£17.5m would have paid the wages of 5 players on £70k pw, so we could have afforded Ollie Watkins and other quality players the squad has been desperately and fatally lacking this season

Clubs should be run with passion, set up to compete and win trophies, not as cash cows for owners.
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Given this was written before 12:00 I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but if it's serious can you please explain the process of how The Owner takes this profit from the club and put's it into his own pocket? Is he paying himself a dividend or bonus for it?

Barney Rubble said:
I don't doubt that you're right on your valuation. However a club owning it's real estate is surely worth more than if it doesn't. The real estate will have been purchased from club income but the proceeds from any sale will go to the owner, if the club is sold

Any new owner could again finance their purchase by the same process like Burnley and clubs could find themselves trapped in a cycle of rinse and repeat.

It's clear that the Prince is relatively impoverished as Premier or even Championship owners go and I think he's trying to manage the situation as best he can, for himself as much as the team. I can live with that but it's a sad not a happy situation.
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Would you kindly walk me through how this differs if he pays for it out of money from his own pocket?
Are you suggesting if he funds this from his personal wealth and then gift's the assets to the club, he shouldn't/wouldn't expect that to increase the clubs overall value, and therefore what he would ask for it should he sell?
This really is a wooden dollars, left pocket right pocket situation and people are getting upset about it. It really makes no real difference if he's putting all the assets together under the ownership of the club.
 
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Revolution said:
Roygbiv and dc_blade you both mention the Prince being "Lucky" due to the timing of him becoming sole owner. That's a bit harsh. He has owned a 50 per cent stake in the club for seven and a half years, and he acquired it when we were in the relegation zone in League One. He is not someone who has had the club drop into his lap since we were promoted to the PL. Another way to look at it is that it was a canny investment.

I sometimes think that gets forgotten a bit. The Prince has put money in to get us here in the first place. Kevin McCabe also did this, and of course other people (most notably Wilder and the players) had a bigger hand in us getting promoted twice, but after 6 seasons as co-owner and one and a half as sole owner the Prince's contribution was not negligible.
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Fair point Rev, it wasn't intended as a slight against the guy. Being lucky is a very handy skill to have.

He bought into a club that was massively down on its luck with a reasonable expectation that it would (and probably should, fairly quickly) improve its fortunes and make him some money.

His biggest dose of luck came when McCabe stepped on his own dick in spectacular style just as we got promoted, essentially dropping the club into the prince's pocket whilst trying to lift his wallet.
 
dc_blade said:
Fair point Rev, it wasn't intended as a slight against the guy. Being lucky is a very handy skill to have.

He bought into a club that was massively down on its luck with a reasonable expectation that it would (and probably should, fairly quickly) improve its fortunes and make him some money.

His biggest dose of luck came when McCabe stepped on his own dick in spectacular style just as we got promoted, essentially dropping the club into the prince's pocket whilst trying to lift his wallet.
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I’d say his biggest bit of luck was us getting promoted to the PL. The money from that enabled him to buy the fixed assets. Without that, him and McCabe would be arguing over who was going to own a loss making business.
 
Sheffield has been overflowing with billionaires desperate to throw their money away on any old football club for the last few decades but where are they when you need them?
 
bladesmanluke said:
We're doing nothing under the Prince. Chris Wilder is the reason we are where we are. Without him the Prince wouldn't have a sniff of the Premier league
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Without Billy Sharp, Wilder wouldn't have had a sniff of the Premier League. Let's put him in charge.

Actually, though, when you think about it, behind every great man is a great woman...

Jade Sharp is now owner.
 
Brewster Cost Millions said:
Scary thing Is we've been their before with supposedly big names like Adkins and that went well,the Prince is taking a huge risk wether he gets Lennon or pep,every managerial appointment is like any player transfers,their isn't any guarantee it'll come off.
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Yes at least someone understands, I was just going to post the same point!

Wilder had some promotions before he took charge here but none of those were above League One level at the time, but got us to the promised land while Adkins who had previously done this couldn't repeat the feat.

The next appointment could have previous Championship promotions in which there are plenty such as Jokanovic, Dyche, Bilic, Warnock, Bruce, Howe, Pearson, McCarthy, Alex Neil, Mowbray, Hughton, Holloway, Pulis and Wagner etc etc.

Whether the approach is go for previous success or a bit of a punt i.e. Wilder, there are no guarantees of success in football!!!!

The only thing a no nowt like me can suggest for this scenario we're in is to try to be as astute as is possible when making the next appointment.

Not at all do I envy PA, his son and the board in deciding who our next appointment is going to be.


I've ended up posting the same point haven't I :oops: 😅
 
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Why would the club need to own its own assets? Why not sell them for a questionable amount above market value and then lease them back? And where's the standard paragraph about "material uncertainty as a going concern"?

I've read some Sheffield football accounts recently and ours don't look anything like them. Very suspicious.
 
Brewster Cost Millions said:
Better the devil you know,look what's happening down the road,id much sooner the Prince stay over a 50-50 chance of getting a chansiri.
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The thing with this is that we don't 'know' Abdullah really. He took over on a cut price deal on the crest of a wave having had a showdown with McCabe for ownership.

We've never really seen how he reacts to adversity and although we can't be certain, do you think he'd have fought in the courts for ownership if we'd have continued with Adkins and still been in League 1?

He's making the right noises at the moment but the next appointment and the financial decisions made over the next 2 years will show his true colours.
 



derekacorah said:
The thing with this is that we don't 'know' Abdullah really. He took over on a cut price deal on the crest of a wave having had a showdown with McCabe for ownership.

We've never really seen how he reacts to adversity and although we can't be certain, do you think he'd have fought in the courts for ownership if we'd have continued with Adkins and still been in League 1?

He's making the right noises at the moment but the next appointment and the financial decisions made over the next 2 years will show his true colours.
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Or we could have chansiri who's been pulling their pants down from day one at least the Prince is following through with some of what he's said.
 
Brewster Cost Millions said:
Or we could have chansiri who's been pulling their pants down from day one at least the Prince is following through with some of what he's said.
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Chansiri is a one-off, there are other people in the world and we shouldn't measure the success of Abdullah against the basket case across the city.
 
This is the point,until the Prince starts selling 10 year season tickets and taking over a year and half to refund 8k that wanted refunding,I can't really fault him.
 
Danny_Blade said:
Yes at least someone understands, I was just going to post the same point!

Wilder had some promotions before he took charge here but none of those were above League One level at the time, but got us to the promised land while Adkins who had previously done this couldn't repeat the feat.

The next appointment could have previous Championship promotions in which there are plenty such as Jokanovic, Dyche, Bilic, Warnock, Bruce, Howe, Pearson, McCarthy, Alex Neil, Mowbray, Hughton, Holloway, Pulis and Wagner etc etc.

Whether the approach is go for previous success or a bit of a punt i.e. Wilder, there are no guarantees of success in football!!!!

The only thing a no nowt like me can suggest for this scenario we're in is to try to be as astute as is possible when making the next appointment.

Not at all do I envy PA, his son and the board in deciding who our next appointment is going to be.


I've ended up posting the same point haven't I :oops: 😅
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No, there aren’t any guarantees. Once a manager loses his touch at a club, the owners are forced into a difficult situation. Keeping Wilder would’ve been a gamble. There’s no guarantee he would have been able to sort it out, Bassett wasn’t able to.
Similarly there’s no guarantee his replacement will be able to. As you say, all you can do is try to minimise the risk by trying to make a sensible appointment. If I gave you £100 on the condition that you gambled it, but you could keep any winnings, you wouldn’t buy 50 lottery tickets and hope for the best, you’d go for something more certain, like boxing or an FA Cup tie between a PL club and a non league club. That’s all PA and the board can do. I don’t think you can blame a board if they appoint an experienced manager and he fails but if they appoint someone with no experience and they fail, you’re justified in saying “didn’t you think this was quite likely to happen?” That’s why Chelsea went for Tuchel instead of sacking Lampard and putting Jody Morris in charge (and why Bournemouth will be to blame if they don’t go up this season).
 
Brewster Cost Millions said:
This is the point,until the Prince starts selling 10 year season tickets and taking over a year and half to refund 8k that wanted refunding,I can't really fault him.
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He’ll be judged on this appointment and the transfer budget for the new manager.

If it’s a non descript appointment and a fire sale I suspect he’ll be quickly under pressure and everyone will be singing CW’s praises again ;)
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Given this was
Would you kindly walk me through how this differs if he pays for it out of money from his own pocket?
Are you suggesting if he funds this from his personal wealth and then gift's the assets to the club, he shouldn't/wouldn't expect that to increase the clubs overall value, and therefore what he would ask for it should he sell?
This really is a wooden dollars, left pocket right pocket situation and people are getting upset about it. It really makes no real difference if he's putting all the assets together under the ownership of the club.
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The Prince has a personal wealth of say £200 million and a football club, that doesn't own its own ground etc.

He then uses club income to fund the purchase of assets from McCabe. He now has £200 million and a more valuable club if he sells it. (Although the value of football clubs can go down as well as up.)

This money could have been used in other ways - signings, wages, improving facilities etc., if it wasn't being spent to pay money owed to the previous owner by the current owner. I don't see where this benefits the club.
 
Barney Rubble said:
The Prince has a personal wealth of say £200 million and a football club, that doesn't own its own ground etc.

He then uses club income to fund the purchase of assets from McCabe. He now has £200 million and a more valuable club if he sells it. (Although the value of football clubs can go down as well as up.)

This money could have been used in other ways - signings, wages, improving facilities etc., if it wasn't being spent to pay money owed to the previous owner by the current owner. I don't see where this benefits the club.
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It benefits the club because McCabe no longer owns the ground. And given what he’s trying to do with the patches of land he still owns, that’s a really good thing.

I don’t understand the distinction between the Princes money and the clubs money. As sole owner of the club, it’s all his money.
 
Barney Rubble said:
The Prince has a personal wealth of say £200 million and a football club, that doesn't own its own ground etc.

He then uses club income to fund the purchase of assets from McCabe. He now has £200 million and a more valuable club if he sells it. (Although the value of football clubs can go down as well as up.)

This money could have been used in other ways - signings, wages, improving facilities etc., if it wasn't being spent to pay money owed to the previous owner by the current owner. I don't see where this benefits the club.
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Yeah, in the nuttiest of nutshells, its cost the club money, where really it should have cost him money personally when buying the club. Its 38 million we shouldnt have leveraged against us tbh.

Though at least its done now and the assets are ours again, not floating around as a seperate entity. Just time to leave the issue behind i think.
 
Barney Rubble said:
The Prince has a personal wealth of say £200 million and a football club, that doesn't own its own ground etc.

He then uses club income to fund the purchase of assets from McCabe. He now has £200 million and a more valuable club if he sells it. (Although the value of football clubs can go down as well as up.)

This money could have been used in other ways - signings, wages, improving facilities etc., if it wasn't being spent to pay money owed to the previous owner by the current owner. I don't see where this benefits the club.
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It makes little difference whether he's used his own money or the banks.

If he'd have used his own then presumably he'd have wanted some return on that and the club would be paying him annual interest and possibly some of the capital (unless he was wealthy enough to forego the interest but I think it's been decided that he's strapped for cash).

The only way we'd be better off with the Abdullah funding it privately is if he turns around and says he doesn't want it back in the future. Again this is unlikely as he apparently hasn't got a pot to piss in so he can't just write off £38m.

Yes there would be a bit more cash washing around the club if we didn't have repayments plus interest to make on a mortgage, but it's hardly going to give us enough cash to get Ronaldo in on loan.
 



Barney Rubble said:
The Prince has a personal wealth of say £200 million and a football club, that doesn't own its own ground etc.

He then uses club income to fund the purchase of assets from McCabe. He now has £200 million and a more valuable club if he sells it. (Although the value of football clubs can go down as well as up.)

This money could have been used in other ways - signings, wages, improving facilities etc., if it wasn't being spent to pay money owed to the previous owner by the current owner. I don't see where this benefits the club.
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It's all left pocket/right pocket. How would it be different if he bought them using his own wealth, he owns the lot?
When he sold the club (the only way he really takes any money out of the club) would you expect him to keep them or sell them as part of the deal?
Also the cost of those assets will be spread along many seasons within the budget and I believe has been mortgaged, so is all this really for a minimal wage bill increase?
 
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