£17.5M profit last year.

[Superblades]

The assets belong to the club.

This isn’t aimed at you Carlton Blade.

When the Prince took over he said the club will be paying for the ground out of the money from the Prem. He also said the aim was to make the club stand on its own as he believed it could. I don’t know why people are suddenly surprised to see PA doing exactly what he said it would.

 

[ElephantBlade]

RE: Wilders severance. How long until some knucklescraper on twitter actually uses the reported profit as a stick to beat PA with?

Already started lol

 

[ElephantBlade]

I've found the exact thing you were looking for

The whole #twitterblades thing used to be great... now it's just a swamp full o' idiots.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

It's a shit profit. Proper established premier league teams run at a loss. Tinpot

I agree even 'MASSIVE' Championship Clubs regularly make massive losses.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think there is two years grace due to the significant parachute payments and the asset base we have in the playing squad. The significant wage cuts and player sales will help the club cope. I'm really worried if we don't get promoted as the Prince claimed he wasn't rich enough to self finance a Champ club.To finance an upwardly mobile Champ club the bar is 13 million owner investment per year. That will not even make you competitive with parachute clubs. At the end of our parachute I don't see PA putting that in, do you? I think it can be argued that running the club is easier inside the Prem as the owner can effectively put in zilch and have a chance to stay up? To be competitive is a different thing entirely. I think Brighton are a good benchmark. Wage bill of around 100 million. Transfer expenditure about half again.Owner has to put in 40 -50 million per season. Yikes.On that basis you're right imo.

There's a lot of mystique for me with the Prince: on the one hand you have the "United World" project; on the other the cancellation of a much needed minor capital investment at Shirecliffe (agreed in July for a January completion). I don't buy the Covid excuse; it was scheduled at the height of Covid and chosen specifically to get around Covid restrictions. Club literature on this issue has also continued until fairly recently.League position seems more likely imo. The mystery with the Prince is why he didn't want to sell United at our peak valuation given his past comments about it being an "investment" to "make money" that he couldn't afford to self finance? Does United World indicate new backers and bigger ambitions? Is he in the casino putting it all on red (promotion in the first two years)? Who knows?...

There has to be a buyer though

 

[metalblade]

Unbelievable that people are saying the Prince bought the assets with the clubs money. Woah the Prince owns the club so any money the club makes is his money. He has been here seven years so most of the time he was putting his money into the club and taking nothing out. Not only that at times he was funding transfers when his co-owner Kevin McCabe flatly refused to do so. McCabe chose to play Russian roulette to try and force the Prince out so he could sell the club to a Yank hedge fund and take all the profits. What McCabe failed to do was recognise the Prince was a savvy businessman who was one step ahead of his tricks, no luck about it at all. If that is not enough we have people saying the Prince is not wealthy enough to fund a Premier league club, well so what get over it he still seems to be making a better job of things than McCabe ever did. No doubt we will see if it is correct, if he can't afford to run the club he will be selling it at a tidy profit or at least getting his investment back.

 

[Rodley]

I think it will be interesting to see the terms of mortgage. This will, inevitably, take up a proportion of incoming cashflow.

As I understand it McCabe plugged any gaps with losses and then wrote them off. We’re yet to see what the approach Prince would take as clearly Championship football is a naturally loss making environment. You can turn a profit, but you’ll be bottom of the league.

The Accounts will plug in the detail, but the scant information above just reinforces the message most of us know. We MUST appoint someone who can maximise our chances of getting us back up in a season. That has to be IMHO a manager who is built promotion sides in the Championship before. And I’d appoint them now because they are going to have to unpick a culture and style of play which is synonymous with one man.

My preference is Jokanovic, but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I would take an old school Steve Bruce type on a one year deal and bin them off on promotion. Needs must.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I think it will be interesting to see the terms of mortgage. This will, inevitably, take up a proportion of incoming cashflow.

As I understand it McCabe plugged any gaps with losses and then wrote them off. We’re yet to see what the approach Prince would take as clearly Championship football is a naturally loss making environment. You can turn a profit, but you’ll be bottom of the league.

The Accounts will plug in the detail, but the scant information above just reinforces the message most of us know. We MUST appoint someone who can maximise our chances of getting us back up in a season. That has to be IMHO a manager who is built promotion sides in the Championship before. And I’d appoint them now because they are going to have to unpick a culture and style of play which is synonymous with one man.

My preference is Jokanovic, but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I would take an old school Steve Bruce type on a one year deal and bin them off on promotion. Needs must.

*checks the date, as I thought it's the 1st April

 

[Kev Gee]

Da PrINZe Iz UoZin AR MunnEH Ta BuY AR GrOuND!! OWDArE E Do Did!; iTz WILderZ MuNeh!!!

Clowns.

 

[Rob86]

It's a shit profit. Proper established premier league teams run at a loss. Tinpot

This was my thought when I saw it. Shows a clear lack of ambishun that we aren’t £100m in the red have bought all the best talent from the Championship !

 

[Working Class Hero]

Presumably we've made a loss this year then, without a single fan through the turnstiles. Not that it seems to matter to football clubs anyway, but that can't be a good thing if we want to hold on to players, because that loss will get a whole lot bigger next season.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I think it will be interesting to see the terms of mortgage. This will, inevitably, take up a proportion of incoming cashflow.

As I understand it McCabe plugged any gaps with losses and then wrote them off. We’re yet to see what the approach Prince would take as clearly Championship football is a naturally loss making environment. You can turn a profit, but you’ll be bottom of the league.

The Accounts will plug in the detail, but the scant information above just reinforces the message most of us know. We MUST appoint someone who can maximise our chances of getting us back up in a season. That has to be IMHO a manager who is built promotion sides in the Championship before. And I’d appoint them now because they are going to have to unpick a culture and style of play which is synonymous with one man.

My preference is Jokanovic, but (and I can’t believe I’m saying this) I would take an old school Steve Bruce type on a one year deal and bin them off on promotion. Needs must.

The best thing that Abdullah said in the interview last week was that "changing manager costs a lot of money".

We've seen the manager and some coaches paid off as a starter. You've then got a new man to come in and want to sign some players (unless it's Heckingbottom in which case I think we're going down the cheap route in terms of signings and using youngsters instead).

He'll probably want to shift out some of the deadwood from the current season and given the performance of the likes of Mousset, McBurnie etc I can't see us getting what we paid for them, albeit their contracts will have been amortised somewhat.

Then there will be between 2 and 5 players who will probably be sold to balance the books, but we only get that chance once and what we have left will be lower value players and older players.

We really need to be looking at a 1 or 2 season return like you say otherwise the downward spiral is well and truly in motion and before you know it we're signing shite players like Collins and Doyle and scrapping at the wrong end of the Championship, sacking manager after manager and hoping we fall lucky again.

 

[Bart the Blade]

Just emphasises how important it is to get back to the prem. We need a decent manager first.

 

[Rodley]

The best thing that Abdullah said in the interview last week was that "changing manager costs a lot of money".

We've seen the manager and some coaches paid off as a starter. You've then got a new man to come in and want to sign some players (unless it's Heckingbottom in which case I think we're going down the cheap route in terms of signings and using youngsters instead).

He'll probably want to shift out some of the deadwood from the current season and given the performance of the likes of Mousset, McBurnie etc I can't see us getting what we paid for them, albeit their contracts will have been amortised somewhat.

Then there will be between 2 and 5 players who will probably be sold to balance the books, but we only get that chance once and what we have left will be lower value players and older players.

We really need to be looking at a 1 or 2 season return like you say otherwise the downward spiral is well and truly in motion and before you know it we're signing shite players like Collins and Doyle and scrapping at the wrong end of the Championship, sacking manager after manager and hoping we fall lucky again.

If we have to sell 2 to 5 of our best players I think we’ll be in trouble, as we’d have to spend more to replace them! I can see Berge fetching decent munneh, but I wouldn’t want to sell anyone on the first choice defence. Fringe players absolutely.

 

[corner_flag]

Why do you see a profit as a good thing? That means money potentially going FROM the club into the owner's pocket.
We needed to make about a £50m loss in each of the first 2 years to get our squad up to sustainable Premier League standards
But after a couple of years, we would be able to operate at break-even and still compete.

£17.5m would have paid the wages of 5 players on £70k pw, so we could have afforded Ollie Watkins and other quality players the squad has been desperately and fatally lacking this season

Clubs should be run with passion, set up to compete and win trophies, not as cash cows for owners.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If we have to sell 2 to 5 of our best players I think we’ll be in trouble, as we’d have to spend more to replace them! I can see Berge fetching decent munneh, but I wouldn’t want to sell anyone on the first choice defence. Fringe players absolutely.

I reckon as a minimum Berge and then 1-4 from: Baldock, Egan, Fleck, JOC. The rest aren't going to attract interest from elsewhere, particularly the strikers as they've been shit or are old.

Lundstram will go obviously and good riddance to him.

I hope Freeman can come back and have a crack under someone new, I suppose it depends on what fee Forest will have to pay for his services and if they want to or not.

I'd probably move on Stevens and Norwood as well unless they turn back into footballers over the summer.

Berge is 100% going, all the speculation started by Wilder's comments will see to that and I'd imagine his agent is doing the rounds as we sit here.

It gets pretty threadbare when you look at that, unless we can somehow incorporate a formation with 6 strikers involved and no midfield?!

 

[Barney Rubble]

I'm surprised to see so many on here cheering on the Prince for the way he's buying the club.

The traditional way was for the new owner to pay the previous owner the money to gain control of the assets. I think it was the Glazer's at Man Utd that changed this system by borrowing money from the bank to takeover, with the club's income being used to service the debt. Their fans have felt that this baggage has played a major part in the club's decline. A similar situation is now happening at Burnley and it looks like this may now become a pattern in football.

When the Prince sells us he will be paid for the assets and pocket that money. So of the three options of owning a club :-

He's not spending his own money like Abramovich or Man City.
He's not running the club as a break even business, where income balances expenditure.
He's currently making money from the club, by using funds received to purchase assets that he will benefit from at time of sale.

From a fan's point of view this seems to be the worst option.

 

[Smirth]

I don't get the clamour for some rich owner to bankroll us to success. The way we are doing it under the Prince is far more sustainable than having some rich oligarch own us, who could get fed up of us and toss us aside leaving us adrift without their money to support us.

 

[Houston_Blade]

I'm surprised to see so many on here cheering on the Prince for the way he's buying the club.

The traditional way was for the new owner to pay the previous owner the money to gain control of the assets. I think it was the Glazer's at Man Utd that changed this system by borrowing money from the bank to takeover, with the club's income being used to service the debt. Their fans have felt that this baggage has played a major part in the club's decline. A similar situation is now happening at Burnley and it looks like this may now become a pattern in football.

When the Prince sells us he will be paid for the assets and pocket that money. So of the three options of owning a club :-

He's not spending his own money like Abramovich or Man City.
He's not running the club as a break even business, where income balances expenditure.
He's currently making money from the club, by using funds received to purchase assets that he will benefit from at time of sale.

From a fan's point of view this seems to be the worst option.

Until we find a muppet willing to write off loads of money every year I'm afraid it's the only option we've got.

 

[Davalon]

Why do you see a profit as a good thing? That means money potentially going FROM the club into the owner's pocket.
We needed to make about a £50m loss in each of the first 2 years to get our squad up to sustainable Premier League standards
But after a couple of years, we would be able to operate at break-even and still compete.

£17.5m would have paid the wages of 5 players on £70k pw, so we could have afforded Ollie Watkins and other quality players the squad has been desperately and fatally lacking this season

Clubs should be run with passion, set up to compete and win trophies, not as cash cows for owners.

Stops, shakes head, walks away.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'm surprised to see so many on here cheering on the Prince for the way he's buying the club.

The traditional way was for the new owner to pay the previous owner the money to gain control of the assets. I think it was the Glazer's at Man Utd that changed this system by borrowing money from the bank to takeover, with the club's income being used to service the debt. Their fans have felt that this baggage has played a major part in the club's decline. A similar situation is now happening at Burnley and it looks like this may now become a pattern in football.

When the Prince sells us he will be paid for the assets and pocket that money. So of the three options of owning a club :-

He's not spending his own money like Abramovich or Man City.
He's not running the club as a break even business, where income balances expenditure.
He's currently making money from the club, by using funds received to purchase assets that he will benefit from at time of sale.

From a fan's point of view this seems to be the worst option.

I'd suggest with relegation the value of the club has gone down by a bit more than £17.5m.

Other than a salary l'd love to know how he's able to take money out of the club.

 

[Scarebus]

I'd suggest with relegation the value of the club has gone down by a bit more than £17.5m.

Other than a salary l'd love to know how he's able to take money out of the club.

Always in the petty cash tin.

 

[Bladeloyal]

I'm surprised to see so many on here cheering on the Prince for the way he's buying the club.

The traditional way was for the new owner to pay the previous owner the money to gain control of the assets. I think it was the Glazer's at Man Utd that changed this system by borrowing money from the bank to takeover, with the club's income being used to service the debt. Their fans have felt that this baggage has played a major part in the club's decline. A similar situation is now happening at Burnley and it looks like this may now become a pattern in football.

When the Prince sells us he will be paid for the assets and pocket that money. So of the three options of owning a club :-

He's not spending his own money like Abramovich or Man City.
He's not running the club as a break even business, where income balances expenditure.
He's currently making money from the club, by using funds received to purchase assets that he will benefit from at time of sale.

From a fan's point of view this seems to be the worst option.

He's allways been upfront about wanting to make money ,surely fans can't expect someone to come in and do their fortune in , he's invested a large sum and when he leaves will probably make a nice dividend ,the good thing is the ground is back in the ownership of the football club ,and we have seen with palace ,,Coventry what not owning your ground can do ,pity the last owner is holding ransom strips (no bigger blade ) just to put a Mardy spanner in the works .

 

[ElephantBlade]

Always in the petty cash tin.

NOT THE BISCUIT MONEY!

 

[BushBlade]

Until we find a muppet willing to write off loads of money every year I'm afraid it's the only option we've got.

That’s it in a nutshell. I’m not going down the route of “I wouldn’t want a rich owner to buy the club and stick loads of money in” because I’d love that to happen but it hasn’t and doesn’t appear to be on the horizon. None of this is news, as you said in your other post, he said from day 1 that this is what he was going to do.
The alternative seemed to have been KM sold the club to ALK, who’ve just bought Burnley and leveraged a lot more against them than PA has. (Or he changed his mind and kept the club and kept doing the same shit that got us into this mess in the first place).

 

[Barney Rubble]

I'd suggest with relegation the value of the club has gone down by a bit more than £17.5m.

Other than a salary l'd love to know how he's able to take money out of the club.

I don't doubt that you're right on your valuation. However a club owning it's real estate is surely worth more than if it doesn't. The real estate will have been purchased from club income but the proceeds from any sale will go to the owner, if the club is sold

Any new owner could again finance their purchase by the same process like Burnley and clubs could find themselves trapped in a cycle of rinse and repeat.

It's clear that the Prince is relatively impoverished as Premier or even Championship owners go and I think he's trying to manage the situation as best he can, for himself as much as the team. I can live with that but it's a sad not a happy situation.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I don't get the clamour for some rich owner to bankroll us to success. The way we are doing it under the Prince is far more sustainable than having some rich oligarch own us, who could get fed up of us and toss us aside leaving us adrift without their money to support us.

We're doing nothing under the Prince. Chris Wilder is the reason we are where we are. Without him the Prince wouldn't have a sniff of the Premier league

 

[MobileBlade]

It will be really interesting to see what happens. I think The Prince will still be one of the least wealthy owners in The Championship. I think they're scrapping FFP next season in The Championship

They tried to change it for a salary cap based on income but this was challenged by the PFA and the PFA won. As a result they have had to go back to FFP. They did make changes to this year so that clubs could include substantiated losses caused by Covid into the £39 million over 3 years (less if owner doesn't personally guarantee).

 

[MobileBlade]

Why do you see a profit as a good thing? That means money potentially going FROM the club into the owner's pocket.
We needed to make about a £50m loss in each of the first 2 years to get our squad up to sustainable Premier League standards
But after a couple of years, we would be able to operate at break-even and still compete.

£17.5m would have paid the wages of 5 players on £70k pw, so we could have afforded Ollie Watkins and other quality players the squad has been desperately and fatally lacking this season

Clubs should be run with passion, set up to compete and win trophies, not as cash cows for owners.

Do the accounts show any dividend payments?

 

[Rodley]

I don't get the clamour for some rich owner to bankroll us to success. The way we are doing it under the Prince is far more sustainable than having some rich oligarch own us, who could get fed up of us and toss us aside leaving us adrift without their money to support us.

Mate we are now not sustainable.

If we want to run a sustainable club in the Championship we’ll finish bottom of the league. It doesn’t exist.