Coulibaly

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I’m not disputing this kid sounds like he might be fairly useful.

But the amount he gets talked about, unless he scores 47 next year and assists 58 goals alone. I’m frankly going to be disappointed.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Thinking about this last night, and accepting all the obvious blockers, but our midfield could move from Norwood, Lunny and Fleck this season to Berge, Coulibaly, and Mowatt next and for no significant additional investment.
That’s not to say we’ll keep Berge; Coulibaly is good enough and Mowatt would come, but it shows how quickly and efficiently our midfield squad could be rejuvenated.
Given the available loans, I’d again suggest we’re not the terminal case some are suggesting. We just can’t afford another ineffective transfer window.
Click to expand...
I love the optimism, but i think we’d be very, very lucky with that midfield. I think Mowatt will go to a promotion side or Leeds/Villa, and ofc Berge is very likely to be moved onwards. I am hopeful of Coulibaly but if a silly offer comes in the board may feel we might have no option. Very much hope you are right here, that midfield would be incredible with our regular back 3 and strikeforce
 
bongleblade said:
I love the optimism, but i think we’d be very, very lucky with that midfield. I think Mowatt will go to a promotion side or Leeds/Villa, and ofc Berge is very likely to be moved onwards. I am hopeful of Coulibaly but if a silly offer comes in the board may feel we might have no option. Very much hope you are right here, that midfield would be incredible with our regular back 3 and strikeforce
Click to expand...
The point is our huge weak area could be reenergised reasonably easily and cheaply. If Berge goes we have funds to bring in quality, and let’s not forget the 5 loans which we have the money to bring in top quality as Derby and Villa did previously.
 
Well I don't have Instagram,but I know you can add emojis and shit to pictures,if the full pic was uploaded on his account that's rather unprofessional.
 
We have already rejected some big offers for this lad including a huge offer from Turkey, he's a very exciting prospect and hopefully our new manager will want to give him a chance in the first team.
 
I agree with Flatulent_Bob. I believe Coulibaly would qualify for an FA Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) (essentially that's a UK Work Permit) immediately. Although the situation would change on 4 October 2021 (a year after his Beerschot debut). And change again on 25 December 2021 (which Wikipedia claims is his 21st birthday).

(Before 2010, I was part of the statistical team maintaining the Home Office algorithms for Football Work Permits. Obviously A LOT has changed since then. But, I'm mentioning that as I do have some background in drafting, interpreting & clarifying these sort of regulations).

The basics remain the same. Work Permits are given to those who have played a lot in the top leagues and/or for a top international team. It's a points based system. 15 points & you get a Governing Body Endorsement.

Coulibaly would get 10 points for being in the matchday squad for any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application. (Paragraph 38 of the regs).

Coulibaly would get 5 points for making his debut in any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application.
(Paragraph 41 of the regs).

15 points. Right there. But, once we pass a year after his debut (4 October 2021), he would lose those 5 points for a debut. Instead, he would need to replace those with points from domestic game time. As a rule of thumb he'd need to play 40% of the available minutes over a 12 months to get those 5 points. (Paragraph 32). (Which doesn't sound too onerous).

He could scrabble around for points from Youth International games & the like. But, essentially wouldn't need to. Once he turns 21 (I believe 25 December 2021), he would no longer be classified as a Youth Player anyway. He'd be basically relying on those 10 points for playing in the Belgian First Division. And those 5 points for playing 40% of the available minutes.

All in my opinion of course. Happy to be corrected. By reference to the regulations of course, rather than "my mate said" or "I've read somewhere on here". Sorry for the length of this post. But, we're the Carrier Bag Firm. We. Do. Details.
 
Looks like our chief exec knows a little bit more than the Twitter blades/s24su experts ,except for the CBF .
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I agree with Flatulent_Bob. I believe Coulibaly would qualify for an FA Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) (essentially that's a UK Work Permit) immediately. Although the situation would change on 4 October 2021 (a year after his Beerschot debut). And change again on 25 December 2021 (which Wikipedia claims is his 21st birthday).

(Before 2010, I was part of the statistical team maintaining the Home Office algorithms for Football Work Permits. Obviously A LOT has changed since then. But, I'm mentioning that as I do have some background in drafting, interpreting & clarifying these sort of regulations).

The basics remain the same. Work Permits are given to those who have played a lot in the top leagues and/or for a top international team. It's a points based system. 15 points & you get a Governing Body Endorsement.

Coulibaly would get 10 points for being in the matchday squad for any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application. (Paragraph 38 of the regs).

Coulibaly would get 5 points for making his debut in any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application.
(Paragraph 41 of the regs).

15 points. Right there. But, once we pass a year after his debut (4 October 2021), he would lose those 5 points for a debut. Instead, he would need to replace those with points from domestic game time. As a rule of thumb he'd need to play 40% of the available minutes over a 12 months to get those 5 points. (Paragraph 32). (Which doesn't sound too onerous).

He could scrabble around for points from Youth International games & the like. But, essentially wouldn't need to. Once he turns 21 (I believe 25 December 2021), he would no longer be classified as a Youth Player anyway. He'd be basically relying on those 10 points for playing in the Belgian First Division. And those 5 points for playing 40% of the available minutes.

All in my opinion of course. Happy to be corrected. By reference to the regulations of course, rather than "my mate said" or "I've read somewhere on here". Sorry for the length of this post. But, we're the Carrier Bag Firm. We. Do. Details.
Click to expand...

Great post. 👍
 
Having got my head full of those regs, I'll try to explain the difficulties United World will have in using their clubs to launder players for SUFC.
Take Châteauroux, currently absolute rock bottom of French Ligue 2.
In that league, a player playing 90% of the available minutes would only earn 6 points for the quality of the player's current club, plus 6 points for player's domestic minutes. Giving 12 points in total, with 15 needed.
Once relegated, putting them at the same Work Permit level as the United World Indian & Dubai clubs, it'd be just 2 points for the quality of the club plus 2 for 90% of the minutes.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Having got my head full of those regs, I'll try to explain the difficulties United World will have in using their clubs to launder players for SUFC.
Take Châteauroux, currently absolute rock bottom of French Ligue 2.
In that league, a player playing 90% of the available minutes would only earn 6 points for the quality of the player's current club, plus 6 points for player's domestic minutes. Giving 12 points in total, with 15 needed.
Once relegated, putting them at the same Work Permit level as the United World Indian & Dubai clubs, it'd be just 2 points for the quality of the club plus 2 for 90% of the minutes.
Click to expand...
Of course any player doing well at Chateauroux is incredibly unlikely to be coming straight to us though.
Of course should they discover Mbappe Jr amongst their ranks, a short loan to Beerschot and a couple of appearances (debut etc) would boost those numbers making them available would it not?
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Having got my head full of those regs, I'll try to explain the difficulties United World will have in using their clubs to launder players for SUFC.
Take Châteauroux, currently absolute rock bottom of French Ligue 2.
In that league, a player playing 90% of the available minutes would only earn 6 points for the quality of the player's current club, plus 6 points for player's domestic minutes. Giving 12 points in total, with 15 needed.
Once relegated, putting them at the same Work Permit level as the United World Indian & Dubai clubs, it'd be just 2 points for the quality of the club plus 2 for 90% of the minutes.
Click to expand...

Didn’t realise 15 points was the threshold in my 30 second cursory scan. Seems low.
 

tomgclarke said:
I’m not disputing this kid sounds like he might be fairly useful.

But the amount he gets talked about, unless he scores 47 next year and assists 58 goals alone. I’m frankly going to be disappointed.
Click to expand...
He's one 6/10 performance away from me booing him off. I expect 8/10 every week as a minimum.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Of course any player doing well at Chateauroux is incredibly unlikely to be coming straight to us though.
Of course should they discover Mbappe Jr amongst their ranks, a short loan to Beerschot and a couple of appearances (debut etc) would boost those numbers making them available would it not?
Click to expand...
Swearing incoming....
Well, that's how much of a fucking farce it is. Slave Trade mate. Obvs, I have no working knowledge of the Belgian Work Permit system. But, yes, an under 21 player, who can get a permit to play in Belgium, can make his debut for Beerschot, because a Saudi Royal orders it, and then (at face value) has 15 points for a UK Governing Body Endorsement. Luckily, I'm a Sheffield United Football Fan rather than a Loophole People Trafficker. How the fuck did we end up here. (rhetorical)
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
Swearing incoming....
Well, that's how much of a fucking farce it is. Slave Trade mate. Obvs, I have no working knowledge of the Belgian Work Permit system. But, yes, an under 21 player, who can get a permit to play in Belgium, can make his debut for Beerschot, because a Saudi Royal orders it, and then (at face value) has 15 points for a UK Governing Body Endorsement. Luckily, I'm a Sheffield United Football Fan rather than a Loophole People Trafficker. How the fuck did we end up here. (rhetorical)
Click to expand...
Apologies for raising your blood pressure, and it's incredibly unlikely someone is going to come through the French system and be at the required level in their first season, but it's relatively simple to do so long as the player doesn't mind being handed round like a piece of meat. I would suspect the reason for it being that he's wanted to play in the Premier League or even the Championship the following season would mean they're probably going to be OK with it in the main.
I think 99 times out of 100 we would only be taking players from Belgium and others who make the grade would come in behind them but yes Trafficking is pretty much exactly what it is.
 
Last edited:
Flatulent_Bob said:
Apologies for raising your blood pressure, and it's incredibly unlikely someone is going to come through the French system and be at the required level in their first season, but it's relatively simple to do so long as the player doesn't mind being handed round like a piece of meat. I would suspect the reason for it being that he's wanted to play in the Premier League or even the Championship the following season would mean they're probably going to be OK with it in the main.
I think 99 times out of 100 we would only be taking players from Belgium and others who make the grade would come in behind them.
Click to expand...
On balance, I support the regs. The simplicity of a player from a top league (Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1), playing more often than not. Or a player from a lower league (Primeira Liga, Eredivisie, Belgian First Division A, Turkish Super Lig) playing nearly every game, appeals to me. But, some of the calibration is a bit off for me.

Coulibaly in a year's time being a prime example. He'd only need to play 40% of minutes in the Belgian First Division. A bit part player, in a rather ordinary league. That seems a low work permit bar to me.

A La Liga player would have to play 30% of minutes (by comparison)

The points for a Youth Debut in a league like the Belgian First Division seems to blow common sense out of the water though.
 
In pre-season friendlies in 2000, we had a lad called Dramane Coulibaly. Is he related to the lad who is subject of this thread?
 
Berge needs to stay, we need to be making it known to him that he isn't for sale.

And more importantly we need a club that's going to convince him and our other odd one or two good players that we are going to be a different club going forward.

I think Berge is young enough to give it one season in the Championship, it might be the thing that makes him a star.
 
JJBlade said:
Berge needs to stay, we need to be making it known to him that he isn't for sale.

And more importantly we need a club that's going to convince him and our other odd one or two good players that we are going to be a different club going forward.

I think Berge is young enough to give it one season in the Championship, it might be the thing that makes him a star.
Click to expand...
What if his release clause is met?
 
JJBlade said:
Berge needs to stay, we need to be making it known to him that he isn't for sale.

And more importantly we need a club that's going to convince him and our other odd one or two good players that we are going to be a different club going forward.

I think Berge is young enough to give it one season in the Championship, it might be the thing that makes him a star.
Click to expand...

He's off.
 
Ball_Sup (Phil) said:
I agree with Flatulent_Bob. I believe Coulibaly would qualify for an FA Governing Body Endorsement (GBE) (essentially that's a UK Work Permit) immediately. Although the situation would change on 4 October 2021 (a year after his Beerschot debut). And change again on 25 December 2021 (which Wikipedia claims is his 21st birthday).

(Before 2010, I was part of the statistical team maintaining the Home Office algorithms for Football Work Permits. Obviously A LOT has changed since then. But, I'm mentioning that as I do have some background in drafting, interpreting & clarifying these sort of regulations).

The basics remain the same. Work Permits are given to those who have played a lot in the top leagues and/or for a top international team. It's a points based system. 15 points & you get a Governing Body Endorsement.

Coulibaly would get 10 points for being in the matchday squad for any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application. (Paragraph 38 of the regs).

Coulibaly would get 5 points for making his debut in any Belgian First Division A game in the 12 months before an application.
(Paragraph 41 of the regs).

15 points. Right there. But, once we pass a year after his debut (4 October 2021), he would lose those 5 points for a debut. Instead, he would need to replace those with points from domestic game time. As a rule of thumb he'd need to play 40% of the available minutes over a 12 months to get those 5 points. (Paragraph 32). (Which doesn't sound too onerous).

He could scrabble around for points from Youth International games & the like. But, essentially wouldn't need to. Once he turns 21 (I believe 25 December 2021), he would no longer be classified as a Youth Player anyway. He'd be basically relying on those 10 points for playing in the Belgian First Division. And those 5 points for playing 40% of the available minutes.

All in my opinion of course. Happy to be corrected. By reference to the regulations of course, rather than "my mate said" or "I've read somewhere on here". Sorry for the length of this post. But, we're the Carrier Bag Firm. We. Do. Details.
Click to expand...
I love how you've just casually thrown that one in there, Phil! You've been holding out on us!😁

Thanks for sharing. That's a very helpful and insightful post. I can't help but feel many, myself included, are falling in the wind a little with these oversees linked players. It also does establish a bit of hierarchy for United World of Châteauroux to Beerschot to Blades though I don't quite get how the other two clubs figure in all this. Perhaps they will not benefit us but might more so help Châteauroux for instance.

Anyway, great post. Thanks for sharing another string to the CBF's bow! 👏
 
Champagneblade said:
I love how you've just casually thrown that one in there, Phil! You've been holding out on us!😁

Thanks for sharing. That's a very helpful and insightful post. I can't help but feel many, myself included, are falling in the wind a little with these oversees linked players. It also does establish a bit of hierarchy for United World of Châteauroux to Beerschot to Blades though I don't quite get how the other two clubs figure in all this. Perhaps they will not benefit us but might more so help Châteauroux for instance.

Anyway, great post. Thanks for sharing another string to the CBF's bow! 👏
Click to expand...
As it happens, I didn't fully realise that Flatulent_Bob was providing comprehensive advice on this in the thread in Rumour Mill. I rarely go over there. He was ahead of the curve on this.
 

bongleblade said:
I love the optimism, but i think we’d be very, very lucky with that midfield. I think Mowatt will go to a promotion side or Leeds/Villa, and ofc Berge is very likely to be moved onwards. I am hopeful of Coulibaly but if a silly offer comes in the board may feel we might have no option. Very much hope you are right here, that midfield would be incredible with our regular back 3 and strikeforce
Click to expand...

bongleblade said:
I love the optimism, but i think we’d be very, very lucky with that midfield. I think Mowatt will go to a promotion side or Leeds/Villa, and ofc Berge is very likely to be moved onwards. I am hopeful of Coulibaly but if a silly offer comes in the board may feel we might have no option. Very much hope you are right here, that midfield would be incredible with our regular back 3 and strikeforce
Click to expand...

Mowatt's ok but overrated by many. We can and will do better.
 
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