Would you be happy with this?

[Wards]

What debacle?

 

[Ollessendro]

What debacle?

Simonsen
Kozluk, Nosworthy (loan), Morgan, Taylor
Ward, Britton, Montgomery, Yeates
Bogdanovic, Cresswell
Subs:- Aksalu, Ertl, Lowton, Quinn, Evans, Henderson
Others:- , France
Injured:- Williamson, Walton

 

[LouTheBlade]

Simonsen
Kozluk, Nosworthy (loan), Morgan, Taylor
Ward, Britton, Montgomery, Yeates
Bogdanovic, Cresswell
Subs:- Aksalu, Ertl, Lowton, Quinn, Evans, Henderson
Others:- , France
Injured:- Williamson, Walton

I'm afraid Olle has a point at the moment. United have made 2 or 3 decent signings so far but its just not enough on top of what we had. At the moment we have the quality of a tough mid-table side and the depth of bottom half strugglers.

I have been optimistic this summer that the club could get the right players in to make us competitive but at the moment we are way short of where I hoped we would be (and I never expected us to have a squad like Middlesbrough or QPR). Our current squad of players will find it hard to mount a promotion challenge IMO, which has to be the whole point of our existence as a club one would imagine (as its all we ever seem to be doing). Something tells me that we are trying to do just enough to tread water.

Personally, I feel we're 4 or 5 players short of what we need to a) have the quality to challenge and b) avoid the problems associated with last season. KB seems to be stating that we are looking to sign only a couple more players. Whether finances dictate or not the current situation worries me.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

I'm afraid Olle has a point at the moment. United have made 2 or 3 decent signings so far but its just not enough on top of what we had. At the moment we have the quality of a tough mid-table side and the depth of bottom half strugglers.

I have been optimistic this summer that the club could get the right players in to make us competitive but at the moment we are way short of where I hoped we would be (and I never expected us to have a squad like Middlesbrough or QPR). Our current squad of players will find it hard to mount a promotion challenge IMO, which has to be the whole point of our existence as a club one would imagine (as its all we ever seem to be doing). Something tells me that we are trying to do just enough to tread water.

Personally, I feel we're 4 or 5 players short of what we need to a) have the quality to challenge and b) avoid the problems associated with last season. KB seems to be stating that we are looking to sign only a couple more players. Whether finances dictate or not the current situation worries me.

In the last 2 seasons, Burnley and Blackpool were promoted using less than 20 players. If we have the same amount of fortune with injuries and suspensions, we're not in bad shape if we bring in the 2 or 3 rumoured defenders. We're still going to be reliant on getting plenty of games out of Ward and need Willo fit in a few months but with a couple of 1st team defenders, the match day squad isn't looking as bad as some are making out.

 

[LouTheBlade]

In the last 2 seasons, Burnley and Blackpool were promoted using less than 20 players. If we have the same amount of fortune with injuries and suspensions, we're not in bad shape if we bring in the 2 or 3 rumoured defenders. We're still going to be reliant on getting plenty of games out of Ward and need Willo fit in a few months but with a couple of 1st team defenders, the match day squad isn't looking as bad as some are making out.

The full back positions lack quality and the midfield is very very thin in terms of depth. They are our main problems. All other areas look fine at the moment.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The full back positions lack quality and the midfield is very very thin in terms of depth. They are our main problems. All other areas look fine at the moment.

Exactly, 2 defenders coming in and Ward/Willo fit and available. Arguably we've then got two players for every position.

Then there's always loans

 

[Wards]

I wouldn't call it a debacle. There's still 2 and half weeks till the start of the new season. There's still a lot of transfer activity to come and there still aren't many teams that have tied up all their signings yet.

Chill thi beans!

 

[LouTheBlade]

Then there's always loans

Ive said it once and I'll say it again..........

NO!

 

[Ollessendro]

I wouldn't call it a debacle. There's still 2 and half weeks till the start of the new season. There's still a lot of transfer activity to come and there still aren't many teams that have tied up all their signings yet.

Chill thi beans!

Time is a ticking Wards (as stated in my other thread). KB has stated that he wanted the majority of the squad to be in place before Malta. He also stated that (after Nos) we'd sign 2 or 3 more. Unless those 2 or 3 are quality (i.e. straight in the first team or pushing hard for a place) defenders then we are in trouble for next year.

Even the happiest of clappers thinks we're 5 signings away from being anywhere near decent (yet management see things deifferently).

I'm sorry to say, but it's mid table mediocrity this year for the Blades (although I'd be over the moon if they proved me wrong by putting on a challenge for play offs/automatic).

 

[Bergen Blade]

In the last 2 seasons, Burnley and Blackpool were promoted using less than 20 players.

According to this link Blackpool used 29 players last season (and that was just league games):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Blackpool_F.C._season

I remember Holloway say before they played us at home that he had two different teams (i.e. two elevens) he could field and he was confident either could have done well.

 

[William Large]

Fucking. With a "g". And though, with a "u", a "g" and an "h".

What is it with these abbreviations? Is this more Southern Twattery?

I'm not sure, but it's certainly not Northern Spellcheckery.

Most awfully sorry for the abbreviations, I forgot how much it irks some on here. It appears there is someone with more time on their hands than me to write utterly pointless drivel, and is spellcheckery a word for that matter?
That is certainly spacky mongoosery.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

According to this link Blackpool used 29 players last season (and that was just league games):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Blackpool_F.C._season

I remember Holloway say before they played us at home that he had two different teams (i.e. two elevens) he could field and he was confident either could have done well.

OK, but they had 8 or 9 players who played 30 plus games which makes a massive difference.

 

[LouTheBlade]

Time is a ticking Wards (as stated in my other thread). KB has stated that he wanted the majority of the squad to be in place before Malta. He also stated that (after Nos) we'd sign 2 or 3 more. Unless those 2 or 3 are quality (i.e. straight in the first team or pushing hard for a place) defenders then we are in trouble for next year.

Even the happiest of clappers thinks we're 5 signings away from being anywhere near decent (yet management see things deifferently).

I'm sorry to say, but it's mid table mediocrity this year for the Blades (although I'd be over the moon if they proved me wrong by putting on a challenge for play offs/automatic).

Yes I think its fair to say we are not quite out of our transitional period yet. Club officials will try to suggest otherwise and so they should, they need to sell tickets. We have 19 players (excluding academy lads) and of those 19 I would suggest only 17 are good enough for regular first team football. If KB is suggests we need only 2 or 3 more players then he is obviously prepared to work with a very thin squad again - as he did last year.

Despite all the talk of taking steps to avoid last season's problems, we are only a couple of injuries away from having them again. If its finances that mean we cant swell the squad then fair enough, but they shouldnt promise a bigger squad and then go with the same sort of numbers.

 

[Ollessendro]

Yes I think its fair to say we are not quite out of our transitional period yet. Club officials will try to suggest otherwise and so they should, they need to sell tickets. We have 19 players (excluding academy lads) and of those 19 I would suggest only 17 are good enough for regular first team football. If KB is suggests we need only 2 or 3 more players then he is obviously prepared to work with a very thin squad again - as he did last year.

Despite all the talk of taking steps to avoid last season's problems, we are only a couple of injuries away from having them again. If its finances that mean we cant swell the squad then fair enough, but they shouldnt promise a bigger squad and then go with the same sort of numbers.

I'm in agreement Lou. Perhaps we can't afford to get another 5 in and hence we'll only bring in the 2 KB suggested. However we could end up shit creek again. For example a couple of injuries in the defence and we are out in the loan market (paying over inflated wages according to McCabe). Apparently yhr wage bill last year was massive because we had so many short term loans. We all understand the predicament we are in and that the wage bill has to decrease, but you would hope that Birch/McCabe would have learnt from their mistakes. Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, but we are only a feew injuries away from having to bring in emergency loans. This short sighted-ness surely couldn't cost us again?

 

[Revolution]

Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, but we are only a feew injuries away from having to bring in emergency loans. This short sighted-ness surely couldn't cost us again?

My best guess as to their thinking is (a) we are going to spend as little as we can, which means a small squad and (b) we may have to get some loans in at some point because the squad is so thin, but surely the situation can't be as bad as last season, so it will work out cheaper.

We have so brittle a squad, in more ways than one, that emergency loans must be on the agenda at some stage, along with at least 2 more season long loans. The problem is that key members of the squad have a poor injury history.

 

[Ollessendro]

My best guess as to their thinking is (a) we are going to spend as little as we can, which means a small squad and (b) we may have to get some loans in at some point because the squad is so thin, but surely the situation can't be as bad as last season, so it will work out cheaper.

We have so brittle a squad, in more ways than one, that emergency loans must be on the agenda at some stage, along with at least 2 more season long loans. The problem is that key members of the squad have a poor injury history.

Surely Tricky Trev wouldn't be that naive Rev??! I suppose the law of averages says that we are extrememly unlikely to suffer from injuries as badly as we did last season, but injuries to key players puts us in big trouble.

One thing that we perhaps haven't considered is that Birch/McCabe will jsut take it on the chin (or KB will). What I mean is if a key player gets injured then we just throw in one of our average squad players and suffer. If they are not really interested in promotion and are happy with mid table mediocrity whilst we decrease the wage bill etc, then perhaps it' not important to bring in emergency loans. For example if Britton gets injured and Willo is not fit, then Quinn will play. If Morgs or Nos is not fit then Ertl will play. If one of the full backs is not fit then Lowton will play etc. The team is likely to suffer, but as long as we chug along then it doesn't matter too much.

 

[LouTheBlade]

I'm in agreement Lou. Perhaps we can't afford to get another 5 in and hence we'll only bring in the 2 KB suggested. However we could end up shit creek again. For example a couple of injuries in the defence and we are out in the loan market (paying over inflated wages according to McCabe). Apparently yhr wage bill last year was massive because we had so many short term loans. We all understand the predicament we are in and that the wage bill has to decrease, but you would hope that Birch/McCabe would have learnt from their mistakes. Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, but we are only a feew injuries away from having to bring in emergency loans. This short sighted-ness surely couldn't cost us again?

Precisely. I think it will cost us again. To be honest Olle, I'm all for having a tight squad if you can guarantee high levels of fitness and no bad luck knocks, but we cant guarantee that as you know. With United's record of injuries and the high intensity our players apparently train at, we are bound to pick up similar knocks to last year and ultimately end up with the same problems.

A tight squad can breed unity and good togetherness along with better understanding so it has its plus points. But they are only plus points if you can keep the majority fit all season which is difficult nowadays as we've found. You have to have a big squad in modern day football and if you are hopeful of playoffs and a good cup run it is an absolute necessity! A squad of 24-25 is a bare minimum IMO if you are in the PL or NPC (using a new acronym).

We do have some good second tier players and I'm confident that with our best side out we are tough opposition for anyone but it is so important we safeguard against those problems we have faced before.

I completely understand that we are cutting costs and that we have to work on a lower wage budget. I accept that because of that we cant have a squad of 30 good championship players. Its simply not viable. But if we are in a situation where our current playing staff means we can only afford 20-22 players then they should just tell us. What I dont want to see is us signing players on loan throughout the season when we start getting injuries..........

If this form of recruitment is so costly, then why not invest a little more now in taking a chance on a freebie or two - get them on a 1 year contract (if the wages are realistic) and go from there. At least we have them then and they can settle into the squad. Rather than chop and change all the time! Another more obvious solution is to give the academy lads a chance - maybe 2 or 3 of them? They might surprise us! I would sooner see youth given a chance than us have to sign a 33 year old centre half on loan from Blackpool in the middle of January..........

 

[Sothall_Blade]

For example if Britton gets injured and Willo is not fit, then Quinn will play. If Morgs or Nos is not fit then Ertl will play. If one of the full backs is not fit then Lowton will play etc. The team is likely to suffer, but as long as we chug along then it doesn't matter too much.

Erm yes, that's kind of how a squad system in football works. A first-choice player gets injured and you replace them with a usually inferior second-choice player. Your post seems to suggest that this is somehow unusual and unique to United. I also think too much is being made of having to bring in loan players as and when the need arises. This was only a problem last year because we started off with 5 loan players as first choices and therefore when injuries struck we were restricted by the maximum of six loanees and therefore had to leave first choice loan players sat in the stand.

Providing we start the season with no more than three long-term loan players in the team (currently we only have one), that still provides plenty of scope to bring in other emergency loanees if players such as Simonsen are out for a few games. We're not going to be able to persuade a quality keeper to come and play second fiddle to Simonsen all season and even if we could, why waste money on their wages if they're hardly going to be used. So we have Aksalu on the bench as a short-term, 1 match fix and only if required will we splash out on another proven keeper. That to me is United making good use of the loan system and bears no comparisons to last season's debacle.