Woodburn

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Why didn't we play him in our U23 against Barnsley on the 15th of October strange :confused:

Probably one of three answers; either he's coming back from injury and Liverpool wanted to monitor him, their u23's play at a higher standard than ours and Liverpool want him to play at that level if he isn't playing for our 1st team or his loan will soon be terminated and his return to Liverpool is being 'managed' to save face for all parties concerned.
 



Probably one of three answers; either he's coming back from injury and Liverpool wanted to monitor him, their u23's play at a higher standard than ours and Liverpool want him to play at that level if he isn't playing for our 1st team or his loan will soon be terminated and his return to Liverpool is being 'managed' to save face for all parties concerned.
Option 3 nailed it !!

UTB
 
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Send him back and spend some money on Luke freeman he’s not good enough instead of tryna go for the cheapest option sign freeman who is a ready made replacement for Duff for the next 5 years
 
Loaning young talent from "big clubs" goes very well for us,unless the player is a goalie.

Derby getting the best out of Mount and Wilson.
 
Lessons:

1. Don't fall for the hype surrounding young players, typically from the top clubs.

2. Don't rely on an unproven young loanee to fill an important role in the squad - certainly a role that requires experience.

3. Additionally, don't bother loaning any young players unless they're undoubted world beaters, because Wilder doesn't like giving them a chance.
 
Hopefully Duffy doesn’t get injured or lose form any time soon then because the writing is on the wall for Woodburn and we have no viable alternative to Duffy for that advanced role in the midfield 3.

January can’t come soon enough to strengthen that position.
 
Lessons:

1. Don't fall for the hype surrounding young players, typically from the top clubs.

2. Don't rely on an unproven young loanee to fill an important role in the squad - certainly a role that requires experience.

3. Additionally, don't bother loaning any young players unless they're undoubted world beaters, because Wilder doesn't like giving them a chance.

Without wishing to sound wise in hindsight, there's things to learn from this situation. Diamonds can be found in the rough, as McBurnie and Wilson showed last year in this division and Tammy Abraham the season before. Players stepping seamlessly out of u23 football into the men's game. However, it's a risk to see whether a player can do this quickly and at the desired level.

Wilson is a couple of years older than Woodburn, and has league games under his belt. Mount is the same age, but had a full season in the dutch top division last year, so both are less of a risk. Same goes for Henderson and Blackman, they'd both played a reasonable amount of league games, albeit at a lower level. Also Blackman wasn't 19.

We are now in an unenviable situation regarding Woodburn. He's been at the club for 1/4 of a season, and seems to moving further away from a first team start. He is obviously highly rated by Liverpool & the welsh set up, and his situation is now being discussed in the press and we seem to be catching undeserved flack. Him returning to play for Liverpool's u23's might have seemed like a good idea at the time and done with the best of intentions, but it seems a bit snidey in the cold light of day and looks as if Liverpool are making a point.

If, for whatever reason CW doesn't think he's currently up to it, then i'm 100% behind CW. All I would say is if we have a young player on loan, as brutal as it sounds, they need to be doing the business from day one, as i'd rather we take a punt on our own young players and spend time blooding them slowly into the squad, which we of a long term benefit to us.

We are not blessed with money and shouldn't be paying for somebody else's player who isn't playing, we are also a shallow squad and we need everyone in it to be of use now. It might be best for all concerned, as in the case CCV, to send him back to his parent club, before a molehill gets turned into a mountain.
 
Without wishing to sound wise in hindsight, there's things to learn from this situation. Diamonds can be found in the rough, as McBurnie and Wilson showed last year in this division and Tammy Abraham the season before. Players stepping seamlessly out of u23 football into the men's game. However, it's a risk to see whether a player can do this quickly and at the desired level.

Wilson is a couple of years older than Woodburn, and has league games under his belt. Mount is the same age, but had a full season in the dutch top division last year, so both are less of a risk. Same goes for Henderson and Blackman, they'd both played a reasonable amount of league games, albeit at a lower level. Also Blackman wasn't 19.

We are now in an unenviable situation regarding Woodburn. He's been at the club for 1/4 of a season, and seems to moving further away from a first team start. He is obviously highly rated by Liverpool & the welsh set up, and his situation is now being discussed in the press and we seem to be catching undeserved flack. Him returning to play for Liverpool's u23's might have seemed like a good idea at the time and done with the best of intentions, but it seems a bit snidey in the cold light of day and looks as if Liverpool are making a point.

If, for whatever reason CW doesn't think he's currently up to it, then i'm 100% behind CW. All I would say is if we have a young player on loan, as brutal as it sounds, they need to be doing the business from day one, as i'd rather we take a punt on our own young players and spend time blooding them slowly into the squad, which we of a long term benefit to us.

We are not blessed with money and shouldn't be paying for somebody else's player who isn't playing, we are also a shallow squad and we need everyone in it to be of use now. It might be best for all concerned, as in the case CCV, to send him back to his parent club, before a molehill gets turned into a mountain.

Agree with most of that but it's undeniable that United have an issue with blooding young flair players. We've had DCL, Brooks and now this kid recently and they've all struggled to establish themselves at the Lane. The usual response is that we need proven championship players to get out of this league and players such as these are a luxury. You've only got to look as far as Sessignon and any of half a dozen from Wolves to disprove this theory. The other interesting thing to note is that we can only bring defenders through our academy to our first team with success, it's left to others (usually prem teams) to complete the footballing education of the flair/attacking players. The conclusion to be drawn from this is that bringing Woodburn to the Lane was doomed to failure from the start.
 
Without wishing to sound wise in hindsight, there's things to learn from this situation. Diamonds can be found in the rough, as McBurnie and Wilson showed last year in this division and Tammy Abraham the season before. Players stepping seamlessly out of u23 football into the men's game. However, it's a risk to see whether a player can do this quickly and at the desired level.

Wilson is a couple of years older than Woodburn, and has league games under his belt. Mount is the same age, but had a full season in the dutch top division last year, so both are less of a risk. Same goes for Henderson and Blackman, they'd both played a reasonable amount of league games, albeit at a lower level. Also Blackman wasn't 19.

We are now in an unenviable situation regarding Woodburn. He's been at the club for 1/4 of a season, and seems to moving further away from a first team start. He is obviously highly rated by Liverpool & the welsh set up, and his situation is now being discussed in the press and we seem to be catching undeserved flack. Him returning to play for Liverpool's u23's might have seemed like a good idea at the time and done with the best of intentions, but it seems a bit snidey in the cold light of day and looks as if Liverpool are making a point.

If, for whatever reason CW doesn't think he's currently up to it, then i'm 100% behind CW. All I would say is if we have a young player on loan, as brutal as it sounds, they need to be doing the business from day one, as i'd rather we take a punt on our own young players and spend time blooding them slowly into the squad, which we of a long term benefit to us.

We are not blessed with money and shouldn't be paying for somebody else's player who isn't playing, we are also a shallow squad and we need everyone in it to be of use now. It might be best for all concerned, as in the case CCV, to send him back to his parent club, before a molehill gets turned into a mountain.

Agree with most of that, and I'm not saying we never sign young loanees, but if we do it has to be because they're properly scouted and are good enough, not just a product of the hype machine that is Liverpool FC, with the inflated reputation playing a bit of international football brings.

We should send him back to Liverpool now, it's best for all concerned, but it will probably put PL clubs off loaning Wilder any of their young players, and rightly so. Might seem harsh as Woodburn probably just isn't good enough, but Wilder's reluctance to give young players a chance is obvious.

We have a lot of making up to to in January as far as that position is concerned. We've effectively gone half a season with just Duffy there and no one to help him. That shouldn't have happened.
 
Lessons:

1. Don't fall for the hype surrounding young players, typically from the top clubs.

2. Don't rely on an unproven young loanee to fill an important role in the squad - certainly a role that requires experience.

3. Additionally, don't bother loaning any young players unless they're undoubted world beaters, because Wilder doesn't like giving them a chance.
1 & 2, for sure.

He has had 7 games, albeit mostly as Sub.

His contribution has been precisely squat. Light weight, lacking any sort of positional acumen and, most disturbing of all, limited technical abilities.

Wilder HAS given him a chance. He failed. Spectacularly. The loan signing, like that of Wilson last year, has not been a success for all parties concerned and I suspect exit visas are imminent.

We have no space for passengers !!

UTB
 



Lessons:
2. Don't rely on an unproven young loanee to fill an important role in the squad - certainly a role that requires experience.

I think this is the most important point. He "may" be able to do a job for us but needs game time to grow his confidence and experience. He's not going to get that while we're doing well as it's – to me – a big risk to our position.
 
1 & 2, for sure.

He has had 7 games, albeit mostly as Sub.

His contribution has been precisely squat. Light weight, lacking any sort of positional acumen and, most disturbing of all, limited technical abilities.

Wilder HAS given him a chance. He failed. Spectacularly. The loan signing, like that of Wilson last year, has not been a success for all parties concerned and I suspect exit visas are imminent.

We have no space for passengers !!

UTB

He's played 144 minutes in the Championship ie slightly more than one and a half games. Wilder obviously thinks he's not good enough to be playing right now but there's 30-odd games to go yet so that may well change.

I also thought he did pretty well in the spells we saw from him at Boro and home to Norwich where he created two pretty simple chances for Clarke who unfortunately didn't take them. Those get stuck away - and it's not Woodburn's fault they weren't - and I imagine the conversation would be quite different.
 
Asking a 19 year old to fill the void of an experienced player like Duffy was always a tall order.
 
As much as I applaud CW stance on the squad ethic of everyone "earning" their place - I have seen very little from Conor Washington that says he is a better bet to come off the bench than Woodburn.
Many top sides now focus on "transition" whereby the speed at which you spring from being without the ball and then strike at pace on the break & it was noticeable that Derby players like Lawrence made our defence look like we were running in treacle. Currently we lack that pace to counter attack on the break & play to one method (albeit very well).
I'd like to think that Ben will get another chance soon & that he will grasp the opportunity - CW has made it clear he won't play just on reputation. ...
 
As much as I applaud CW stance on the squad ethic of everyone "earning" their place - I have seen very little from Conor Washington that says he is a better bet to come off the bench than Woodburn.
Many top sides now focus on "transition" whereby the speed at which you spring from being without the ball and then strike at pace on the break & it was noticeable that Derby players like Lawrence made our defence look like we were running in treacle. Currently we lack that pace to counter attack on the break & play to one method (albeit very well).
I'd like to think that Ben will get another chance soon & that he will grasp the opportunity - CW has made it clear he won't play just on reputation. ...

I can only think the advantage Washington has is pace and the ability to stretch opposing defences in the closing stages to relieve pressure on our own.....that's the possible theory anyway!
 
Lessons:

1. Don't fall for the hype surrounding young players, typically from the top clubs.

2. Don't rely on an unproven young loanee to fill an important role in the squad - certainly a role that requires experience.

3. Additionally, don't bother loaning any young players unless they're undoubted world beaters, because Wilder doesn't like giving them a chance.
can’t upset the balance if we’re top of the league and playing well to fit some starlet in
that’s ridiculous
 



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