Worst United Team Ever

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UnitedBlade said:
But what's obvious from that sequence is 10 points from the last 8 games, no wins at home and 4 goals scored.

We've hardly looked like scoring in games since the end of February, that is the issue that hasn't been solved.

If we do have some money, I would start with a decent striker.
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10 points from the last 8 games is still better than we have done since...

We had a downturn in form in mid to late March and early April and resorted to sacking a manager who had consistently kept us challenging for automatic promotion. That decision is increasinly looking like utter lunacy.
 

Wards said:
Have to agree with UnitedBlade , the last couple of months under Wilson were dreadful and we weren't scraping results, creating chances or providing much entertainment. Not too disimilar to what we're playing like at the moment but I think it goes some way to showing how big a job Weir has on his hands to get this side playing again. There's just too many bad players on the books at the moment.
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Wilson lost 7 league games all season. (Brentford & MK Dons A and Yeovil (who ended up promoted) amongst them).

Morgan lost 3 out of his 7 games in charge.

I would have sacked Wilson "IF" we didn't get promoted in May. Not with 5 games remaining.
 
Darren said:
10 points from the last 8 games is still better than we have done since...

We had a downturn in form in mid to late March and early April and resorted to sacking a manager who had consistently kept us challenging for automatic promotion. That decision is increasinly looking like utter lunacy.
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I'm with you, I wouldn't have sacked Wilson then. However, I doubt results would have been much different.

We would have probably still scraped through to the playoffs and then gone straight out.

Wilson would then have been sacked. Obviously we don't know what would have happened but my guess is we would have been looking for a manager. We'd probably have appointed the untried Morgan ?

But from my observations, the side was broken and unable to score.
 
Darren said:
2/3/13 A Oldham W2-0
9/3/13 H MKD D0-0
16/3/13 A Stevange L0-4
30/3/13 A Tranmere W1-0
1/4/13 H Carlisle D0-0
6/4/13 A Walsall D1-1
9/4/13 H Crawley L0-2

So that's a record of P12 W6 D4 L2 pts 22 - verging on automatic promotion form.

If only we were failing to scrape results in a similar way now....
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Without being pedantic I didn't have the timescales to hand so was merely judging Wilson and Weir over a similar amount of games which would thereabouts lend itself to the away game at Oldham. Which when you look at it isn't too dissimilar at all.
 
Wards said:
Without being pedantic I didn't have the timescales to hand so was merely judging Wilson and Weir over a similar amount of games which would thereabouts lend itself to the away game at Oldham. Which when you look at it isn't too dissimilar at all.
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Well, Wilson's 9 points from 7 games is mid table form whilst Weir's 4 points from 6 games is relegation form. You also have to bear in mind that that slightly over a month's run of mediocre form was very much the exception to Wilson's record - to repeat; when he was manager we were never out of serious contention for automatic promotion and indeed, when he was sacked automatic promotion was still in our hands.

I think those who want to argue that sacking Wilson and replacing him with Morgan/Weir was a good idea have a difficult argument.
 
Admittedly I didn't get to the Tranmere game but I managed the rest of those last 7 and it was abundantly clear we weren't going to do anything and I think the writing was on the wall. In particular the Carlisle and Crawley games, where we failed to score a goal or create any meaningful chances, showed up how bad the side had become. We looked desperate and a team with no gameplan whatsoever. To me it wasn't a gamble to get rid of Wilson at that point. To replace him with Morgan was another matter but I didn't bat an eyelid that we sacked Wilson after those wretched performances.
 
It's funny, when United won at Bournemouth in Feb I was sure we would go up automatic. Yet we followed up with a terrible draw at home to a poor team. That was the flavour of the season for me: awful at home, but good at grinding out results away. Wilson's reign became more and more Blackwellian as it went on. After watching us at home against MK Dons and Crawley I was equally as sure that we woud not go up. Many (Deadbat particularly) had been saying we were a poor side and had been riding our luck all season and I gradually came to shar his point of view.

In my opinion we were limping toward the play offs and would have fallen at the first hurdle under Wilson. Darren likes stats, so here is a few: 1) Wilson has never won the play offs with any of his teams (despite several attempts) and 2) he has never got a side promoted from League One (despite 10+ attempts). Wilson failed to get a much better team promoted the year before and imo would not have done last term had he stayed in charge. For these reasons I don't think sacking Wilson with 5 games to go was lunancy. It was a gamble putting Morgs in charge and it horribly backfired. SUFC's favourite Dingle was supposed to get us fired up, but his spectacular tactical naivety shone through. We ended up looking like a joke, but I don't think McCabe's decision was the reason for that (not even in his top 5 worst decisions) it was just that Morgan was soooooo bad.
 
Ollessendro said:
It's funny, when United won at Bournemouth in Feb I was sure we would go up automatic. Yet we followed up with a terrible draw at home to a poor team. That was the flavour of the season for me: awful at home, but good at grinding out results away. Wilson's reign became more and more Blackwellian as it went on. After watching us at home against MK Dons and Crawley I was equally as sure that we woud not go up. Many (Deadbat particularly) had been saying we were a poor side and had been riding our luck all season and I gradually came to shar his point of view.

In my opinion we were limping toward the play offs and would have fallen at the first hurdle under Wilson. Darren likes stats, so here is a few: 1) Wilson has never won the play offs with any of his teams (despite several attempts) and 2) he has never got a side promoted from League One (despite 10+ attempts). Wilson failed to get a much better team promoted the year before and imo would not have done last term had he stayed in charge. For these reasons I don't think sacking Wilson with 5 games to go was lunancy. It was a gamble putting Morgs in charge and it horribly backfired. SUFC's favourite Dingle was supposed to get us fired up, but his spectacular tactical naivety shone through. We ended up looking like a joke, but I don't think McCabe's decision was the reason for that (not even in his top 5 worst decisions) it was just that Morgan was soooooo bad.
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Whatever you say about Wilson and his record, I don't think there can be much doubt that he would have made a better fist of the play offs than Morgan. The lunacy was sacking an experienced manager - whose record had, on the whole, been good-with 5 games to go and replacing him with an utter novice. Losing at home to Crawley was appalling, but sacking the manager as a consequence was the worst type of knee jerk reaction so common in football these days (and for those who say it wasn't just the Crawley result that got Wilson, does anyone think that had we scraped a dodgy 1-0 win, he would have been sacked?) A reasonable decision would have been to keep Wilson on until the end of the season and if we then failed to go up, look for a replacement then.
 
Don't believe it matters that Wilson was sacked when he was.
We were dreadful and couldn't score in a brothel by that time of the season. The main plan for getting any points was to keep a clean sheet. I reckon McCabe would have got pelters for drifting into a play off situation with Wilson still in charge, where we had zero chance of coming out on top, and everyone at the end of the season would have said their "told you so" piece.

Agree the decision to get Rhino and Morgs into the management hot seat was fundamentally flawed. Morgs was a Wilsonite anyway so he tried to carry on the same philosophy - even if beefed up a bit with a bit of Barnsley finesse. He even stated at the end of the season that we were only a couple of players short of being a very good team - what a laugh that statement was. Told me everything that I needed to know - he was too close to the playing staff, still.

To be honest I am glad that Morgs failed at the semi final stage because there is absolutely no way on god's earth that we would have overcome Brentford, like Yeovil did, in the final. In the build up to yet another POF we would have agonised about shall we go, shan't we and then shelled out for yet another chapter of scorn, ridicule, disappointment, despair and reticence. Too many times have I trudged my way from Wembley and Cardiff thinking, "You fucking daft chuff - why did you believe this time?"


.
 
Ollessendro said:
SUFC's favourite Dingle was supposed to get us fired up, but his spectacular tactical naivety shone through. We ended up looking like a joke, but I don't think McCabe's decision was the reason for that (not even in his top 5 worst decisions) it was just that Morgan was soooooo bad.
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Perhaps (just perhaps mind) Morgan wan't quite as bad as it seems, given what's gone on since. It's easier to build a case for Weir's tactical naivity , sadly.

The saddest point is that we're on a clycle where previous managers are almost vindicated, and not because of anything they've done, but because the subsequent result is even worse. As a club we just can't stop the rot.........yet.

UTB
 
Wards said:
Admittedly I didn't get to the Tranmere game but I managed the rest of those last 7 and it was abundantly clear we weren't going to do anything and I think the writing was on the wall. In particular the Carlisle and Crawley games, where we failed to score a goal or create any meaningful chances, showed up how bad the side had become. We looked desperate and a team with no gameplan whatsoever. To me it wasn't a gamble to get rid of Wilson at that point. To replace him with Morgan was another matter but I didn't bat an eyelid that we sacked Wilson after those wretched performances.
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I went to the Tranmere game and we were woeful but won thanks to a hugely fortuitous own goal. Created virtually nothing else - I can tell you it was like all the other 7 games you mention.
 
Kenilworth said:
Don't believe it matters that Wilson was sacked when he was.
We were dreadful and couldn't score in a brothel by that time of the season. The main plan for getting any points was to keep a clean sheet. I reckon McCabe would have got pelters for drifting into a play off situation with Wilson still in charge, where we had zero chance of coming out on top, and everyone at the end of the season would have said their "told you so" piece.

Agree the decision to get Rhino and Morgs into the management hot seat was fundamentally flawed. Morgs was a Wilsonite anyway so he tried to carry on the same philosophy - even if beefed up a bit with a bit of Barnsley finesse. He even stated at the end of the season that we were only a couple of players short of being a very good team - what a laugh that statement was. Told me everything that I needed to know - he was too close to the playing staff, still.

To be honest I am glad that Morgs failed at the semi final stage because there is absolutely no way on god's earth that we would have overcome Brentford, like Yeovil did, in the final. In the build up to yet another POF we would have agonised about shall we go, shan't we and then shelled out for yet another chapter of scorn, ridicule, disappointment, despair and reticence. Too many times have I trudged my way from Wembley and Cardiff thinking, "You fucking daft chuff - why did you believe this time?"


.
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There were some laughable things said towards the end of the season.

Wilson "I promise you Jon Forte will score goals"

Our captain "We have over-achieved"
 
UnitedBlade said:
There were some laughable things said towards the end of the season.

Wilson "I promise you Jon Forte will score goals"

Our captain "We have over-achieved"
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And on here............

"Jon Forte - an apology"
"We don't need Blackman, he's not that good anyaway"

Laugh or cry............you decide.

:)

UTB
 

Grecian2000 said:
Ohh, that wound is still deep isn't it.

I'm liking this thread though as it's thrown up a much needed nickname for Porter. He's so dry he must be "Martini" (I was going "The Nuns Snatch" but it doesn't quite trip off the tongue).
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The Anti Martini - surely?

No place
No time
No where


Gobi or Sahara might be better monikers

:tumbleweed:
 
I've just found actual footage of our strikers at training



here goes




.

wait for it.....



:tumbleweed:

I must say they look good in the new away kit.

,
 
Grecian2000 said:
Ohh, that wound is still deep isn't it.

I'm liking this thread though as it's thrown up a much needed nickname for Porter. He's so dry he must be "Martini" (I was going "The Nuns Snatch" but it doesn't quite trip off the tongue).
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It's remained open for the last 150 days or whatever it is since we've had a striker who scored.

:)

UTB
 
Darren said:
Whatever you say about Wilson and his record, I don't think there can be much doubt that he would have made a better fist of the play offs than Morgan. The lunacy was sacking an experienced manager - whose record had, on the whole, been good-with 5 games to go and replacing him with an utter novice. ....... A reasonable decision would have been to keep Wilson on until the end of the season and if we then failed to go up, look for a replacement then.
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Hmmmm ..... no. I disagree. Wilson's had 4 cracks at the League One play offs and failed every time. That includes with a very good SUFC team 9not to mention that his Brizzle and Swindon teams were better than the team we had last season). He has managed teams in this division double figure seasons, but the only way he got a team out of this division was taking them down. With a poor run of form, shocking play off record and abysmal promotion record from the 3rd tier, why on earth do you think Wilson would have done better than Morgan did?
 
Ollessendro said:
Hmmmm ..... no. I disagree. Wilson's had 4 cracks at the League One play offs and failed every time. That includes with a very good SUFC team 9not to mention that his Brizzle and Swindon teams were better than the team we had last season). He has managed teams in this division double figure seasons, but the only way he got a team out of this division was taking them down. With a poor run of form, shocking play off record and abysmal promotion record from the 3rd tier, why on earth do you think Wilson would have done better than Morgan did?
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Because Wilson consistently maintained automatic promotion form or near automatic promotion form throughout his managerial career at the Lane (as has been mentioned 983 times, 90 points in 11-12 would have been enough in any other 3rd division season and we still had automatic promotion in our own hands last season when he was sacked), whereas in Morgan's short career as manager he managed lower mid table/relegation form.

At the end of the day, we probably wouldn't have made automatic promotion last season with Wilson and we may not have gone up through the play offs, but it would have been difficult for him to do worse than Morgan did. A telling comparism is their away records. Apart from that collapse at Stevange, Wilson's away record was brilliant. We lost all our away games under Morgan without scoring a goal. I would have been confident of us coming away with a 0-0 draw from the play off 2nd leg if Wilson had been manager.
 
Near automatic form yes. Bit only a fool would argue we would have got automatic under him last season. Then we have a manager that has never won a play offs suddenly going to take us up? Plus auto promotion form has nowt to do with the play offs. Not that Wilson knows much about getting teams automatically promoted from League One. It's great saying that Morgan's form is mid table, but no one had any idea then. I actually thought the decision to appoint Morgan was a poor one, but the decision to sack Wilson was perfectly justifiable. Arguing it is lunacy is denying facts and simply out of touch (did you see many of Wilson's last few games or even many home games that season?)
 
Ollessendro said:
Near automatic form yes. Bit only a fool would argue we would have got automatic under him last season. Then we have a manager that has never won a play offs suddenly going to take us up? Plus auto promotion form has nowt to do with the play offs. Not that Wilson knows much about getting teams automatically promoted from League One. It's great saying that Morgan's form is mid table, but no one had any idea then. I actually thought the decision to appoint Morgan was a poor one, but the decision to sack Wilson was perfectly justifiable. Arguing it is lunacy is denying facts and simply out of touch (did you see many of Wilson's last few games or even many home games that season?)
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It might have been justifiable to sack Wilson if we had someone decent lined up to replace him. As we didn't it was, in fact, an utterly lunatic knee jerk response to a bad defeat.

You're right we had no idea how Morgan would be, but I don't think it takes a genius to predict that someone with no experience thrown into the deep end like that is probably not going to make a good fist of it. If HSBC sacked their chairman after some massive trading losses, I don't think they would appoint their branch manager from Basingstoke to that role and expect him to be a rip roaring success.
 
isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! Wilsons record was good overall for us, and sacking him and putting in Morgan didn't work. But something had to change at the end of last season, we couldn't score at home, we seemed to be getting worse. Psychology is a big thing for me in sport, like why did we play so well against Swindon for one game the minute Morgan took over and then back to crap the next week? If we would have stuck with Wilson (and probably would have lost in the playoffs also) we would always be wondering, what if we would have got someone else in who had more "passion" in the short term? Lots of folks on here were annoyed at the teams lack of passion, Wilson seemed incapable of motivating players by the end. The phrase damned if you do and damned if you don't springs to mind.
 
Darren said:
If HSBC sacked their chairman after some massive trading losses, I don't think they would appoint their branch manager from Basingstoke to that role and expect him to be a rip roaring success.
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Clearly you haven't seen our internal recruitment system!

:D
 
Gavlar said:
isn't hindsight a wonderful thing! Wilsons record was good overall for us, and sacking him and putting in Morgan didn't work. But something had to change at the end of last season, we couldn't score at home, we seemed to be getting worse. Psychology is a big thing for me in sport, like why did we play so well against Swindon for one game the minute Morgan took over and then back to crap the next week? If we would have stuck with Wilson (and probably would have lost in the playoffs also) we would always be wondering, what if we would have got someone else in who had more "passion" in the short term? Lots of folks on here were annoyed at the teams lack of passion, Wilson seemed incapable of motivating players by the end. The phrase damned if you do and damned if you don't springs to mind.
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The game after Swindon was Brentford wasn't it???

We can never know, but I suspect if we don't concede the last minute equaliser, or indeed the shot that hit the post after goes in, you see a different performance at Portsmouth.

That goal seemed to knock he stuffing out of us.
 
SellyOakBlade said:
The game after Swindon was Brentford wasn't it???

We can never know, but I suspect if we don't concede the last minute equaliser, or indeed the shot that hit the post after goes in, you see a different performance at Portsmouth.

That goal seemed to knock he stuffing out of us.
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yep forgot bout the Brentford game, two much better home performances instantly under Morgan then and then back to being crap.

ur right tho tiny margins sometimes
 
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