Wilder's biggest test

[Dkc]

We are playing tired, turgid, boring football.. once again like with the overlapping CBs, once plan A has been sussed out we have no plan B

Our only plan this season has been “give it to Gus”

Next season when Gus has gone in the summer we will be screwed.

We need a new manager with new tactics and a fresh approach.

I've watched every game this season. We're constantly trying new set-pieces, unexpected passes, very fast moves, combinations to create openings. Most of the time you can see what we're trying to do, and sometimes it works. We sometimes play the unexpected ball with pace through the middle, which has the chance of giving us a one-on-one. The interplay on the wings outside the opposition box is often very good to watch, with players switching positions and interchanging passes. This often results in releasing a man close to the goal-line. Our fast switching from defence to attack can be fantastic to watch. Sometimes it fails but you always know the intention. It can be laborious to break down solid defences but our players are always making runs off the ball, creating space for a pass. And our finishing is often top draw, Campbell, BBD and Hamer especially.

But yeah, the only think that Wilder and Knill say to the players in training is 'give it to Gus'.

 

[Dkc]

100% this
Wilder is a busted flush, he has no idea how to get the best from this group continues to play players in there wrong positions.

There is no plan b

How many time have we heard this? It is absolutely not true.

When we are chasing a game we often change tactics. We have players on the bench who are there to defend, and players who are there to attack. Substitutions are made and formations are tweaked. Of course we are flexible in our tactics and formations. Wilder is a lot more willing to make substitutions early in the second half if things aren't going to plan. More than eg PH who often left it until the 80th minute before making a change.

There is a lot of lazy criticism of CW that doesn't stand up to scruitiny. 'No plan B' is one of them. Do people really think that CW / AK never discuss changes in tactics and formation if we are chasing a game?

There are valid criticisms of Wilder. 'No Plan B' isn't one of them. Neither is 'busted flush'.

 

[Addison]

The football adage " your only as good as your last game" and the definition of accountability " accepting the consequences of your actions whether they are good or bad and owning up to them" ring true for SUFC and Chris Wilder at the moment. There can be no argument when the going is good he has proven to be a very successful manager. Unfortunately when the going gets tough his track record is poor in overcoming adversity and recognising his faults.

What has gone on before is now irrelevant. We have failed with automatic but have the best squad of players that are capable of winning the play offs. The problem for me is the managers current mentality. In our last promotion season PH after a 6 game run without a win accepted growing criticism Norwoods legs had gone. He brought in Doyle and McAtee and we got over the line. Anel and JLT isn't working yet CW continues to persevere with a duo that are now costing us vital points. Holding and Anel worked against Cardiff drawing praise from the manager yet JLT is shoe horned back in yesterday. It is this partnership that will cost us promotion imo. Holding has to be first pick for the remaining games with Anel being the better of the 2 to play alongside him. It improves our aerial prowess with the benefit of Anels pace sweeping up.

PH also brought in McAtees running into the team. We have a player of similar ilk in O'Hare yet CW is obsessed with giving Brewster a game in the 10 position. He's not a 10 never will be because he doesn't possess the work rate. Brewster is a forward and could play a role in a 2 up top alongside Campbell or Cannon but COH has to start as a 10.

It is the refusal to accept he's got it wrong that is CW's mill stone around his neck. Tactically he has failed in all the big games against the top sides this season, yesterdays Hoof ball 4-4-2 an example. At the Cardiff match many were praising him for seeing the light and dropping JLT or so we thought when after match suggestions it was only down to injury surfaced.

The supporters are divided at the moment and need a lift as we still have it in our gift to be promoted. A positive press conference acknowledging mistakes have been made but will be put right and a rallying call to all pull together would go some way to uniting us prior to the play offs.

 

[Harry's Game]

I've watched every game this season. We're constantly trying new set-pieces, unexpected passes, very fast moves, combinations to create openings. Most of the time you can see what we're trying to do, and sometimes it works. We sometimes play the unexpected ball with pace through the middle, which has the chance of giving us a one-on-one. The interplay on the wings outside the opposition box is often very good to watch, with players switching positions and interchanging passes. This often results in releasing a man close to the goal-line. Our fast switching from defence to attack can be fantastic to watch. Sometimes it fails but you always know the intention. It can be laborious to break down solid defences but our players are always making runs off the ball, creating space for a pass. And our finishing is often top draw, Campbell, BBD and Hamer especially.

But yeah, the only think that Wilder and Knill say to the players in training is 'give it to Gus'.

This post is delusional.. it’s like something The Trump administration would put out.

 

[AnstonBlade1]

How many time have we heard this? It is absolutely not true.

When we are chasing a game we often change tactics. We have players on the bench who are there to defend, and players who are there to attack. Substitutions are made and formations are tweaked. Of course we are flexible in our tactics and formations. Wilder is a lot more willing to make substitutions early in the second half if things aren't going to plan. More than eg PH who often left it until the 80th minute before making a change.

There is a lot of lazy criticism of CW that doesn't stand up to scruitiny. 'No plan B' is one of them. Do people really think that CW / AK never discuss changes in tactics and formation if we are chasing a game?

There are valid criticisms of Wilder. 'No Plan B' isn't one of them. Neither is 'busted flush'.

So how come every game is the same? Slow, boring, turgid football?
Nobody is watching the games of late thinking, that was brilliant didn’t we play well?
We create next to nothing and look scared to death when we get to edge of 18yard box

 

[Dkc]

The football adage " your only as good as your last game" and the definition of accountability " accepting the consequences of your actions whether they are good or bad and owning up to them" ring true for SUFC and Chris Wilder at the moment. There can be no argument when the going is good he has proven to be a very successful manager. Unfortunately when the going gets tough his track record is poor in overcoming adversity and recognising his faults.

What has gone on before is now irrelevant. We have failed with automatic but have the best squad of players that are capable of winning the play offs. The problem for me is the managers current mentality. In our last promotion season PH after a 6 game run without a win accepted growing criticism Norwoods legs had gone. He brought in Doyle and McAtee and we got over the line. Anel and JLT isn't working yet CW continues to persevere with a duo that are now costing us vital points. Holding and Anel worked against Cardiff drawing praise from the manager yet JLT is shoe horned back in yesterday. It is this partnership that will cost us promotion imo. Holding has to be first pick for the remaining games with Anel being the better of the 2 to play alongside him. It improves our aerial prowess with the benefit of Anels pace sweeping up.

PH also brought in McAtees running into the team. We have a player of similar ilk in O'Hare yet CW is obsessed with giving Brewster a game in the 10 position. He's not a 10 never will be because he doesn't possess the work rate. Brewster is a forward and could play a role in a 2 up top alongside Campbell or Cannon but COH has to start as a 10.

It is the refusal to accept he's got it wrong that is CW's mill stone around his neck. Tactically he has failed in all the big games against the top sides this season, yesterdays Hoof ball 4-4-2 an example. At the Cardiff match many were praising him for seeing the light and dropping JLT or so we thought when after match suggestions it was only down to injury surfaced.

The supporters are divided at the moment and need a lift as we still have it in our gift to be promoted. A positive press conference acknowledging mistakes have been made but will be put right and a rallying call to all pull together would go some way to uniting us prior to the play offs.

I agree with you about Holding / Robinson. I'd also prefer to see O'Hare be given more time than Brewster over 90 minutes.We all have opinions. Wilder knows the squad better than any of us, and he'll have his reasons for taking such decisions. Maybe Holding isn't fully match-fit? I also thought using the long ball was a decent tactic against the best defence in the country.

You're right about Wilder being stubborn, which can be a blessing or a curse depending on the situation. Brian Clough and Sir Alex were famously stubborn.

 

[Dkc]

So how come every game is the same? Slow, boring, turgid football?
Nobody is watching the games of late thinking, that was brilliant didn’t we play well?
We create next to nothing and look scared to death when we get to edge of 18yard box

It's more our own perception of the game than the game itself. Ever since I can remember, football games have had periods where little happens. I don't think we're seeing fewer chances than in the past. But in today's game the breakaway has become a more important way of creating chances, meaning teams are often more cautious in their attacking buildup.

The perception that this is some of the most 'turgid' football we have ever seen at the Lane could be more to do with fans' expectations than the game itself. Today's fans want to be entertained for a full 90 minutes, preferably with lots of goals (for us). They don't want to see the ball being passed around midfield patiently, maybe back to the keeper while we probe for an opening.

It would be interesting to see some stats on whether our play this season has been as dull and uninspired as some people are suggesting.

 

[Selly]

ChatGPT recons it's something like this:

View attachment 209167
View attachment 209168
View attachment 209169

Who are the, presumably 3, managers sacked before the start of the next season?

And were they sacked or did they leave to join another club?

 

[Silky Sabella]

He looks like a man realising that he's not quite what he used to be. Everything about the squad at the minute just seems flat and as you say, knackered.

Regardless of what happens I think he should step aside end of season, the club and it's owners have higher ambitions than he can provide. I'd much rather he leave appropriately then the way he did last time but he's a stubborn fucker so I won't be surprised to see him on the side lines next season. I won't be tremendously disappointed as I quite like Wilder anyway

Perfect post until your last paragraph !

 

[Wards]

It would be interesting to see some stats on whether our play this season has been as dull and uninspired as some people are suggesting.

Not sure how this will show but it looks like we're barely averaging a shot more per game than we did in the PL which is surprising. Sadly no shot data that I can drum up for the last two Champ seasons prior to this.

Wilders promotion season saw us score at a rate of 1.70 goals per game.

Season	Division	Goals Scored	Matches Played	Avg Goals/Game	Avg Shots/Game
2024–25	Championship	60	44	1.36	10.38
2023–24	Premier League	35	38	0.92	9.61
2022–23	Championship	73	46	1.59	N/A
2021–22	Championship	63	46	1.37	N/A
2020–21	Premier League	20	38	0.53	8.53
2019–20	Premier League	39	38	1.03	9.32
2018–19	Championship	78	46	1.70	N/A
2017–18	Championship	62	46	1.35	N/A
2016–17	League One	92	46	2.00	N/A

So, hardly thrilling against much inferior opposition but 17/18 and 21/22 similar in terms of goals per game.

 

[Roygbiv]

It's more our own perception of the game than the game itself. Ever since I can remember, football games have had periods where little happens. I don't think we're seeing fewer chances than in the past. But in today's game the breakaway has become a more important way of creating chances, meaning teams are often more cautious in their attacking buildup.

The perception that this is some of the most 'turgid' football we have ever seen at the Lane could be more to do with fans' expectations than the game itself. Today's fans want to be entertained for a full 90 minutes, preferably with lots of goals (for us). They don't want to see the ball being passed around midfield patiently, maybe back to the keeper while we probe for an opening.

It would be interesting to see some stats on whether our play this season has been as dull and uninspired as some people are suggesting.

In terms of creating chances, we are 6th in the XG/big chances table. That probably feels about right to me. Should we be getting more from the attacking talent? Obviously. Are we the one of the most negative teams in the league? Absolutely not.

We are bottom of the table out of the 4 other current play off teams in terms of chances though. With us struggling at the other end (only 9th in terms of goals conceded since January), we will likely need to be extremely clinical in the play off games to go up.

 

[Roygbiv]

Since January we have definitely gone backwards. We've won 12 and lost 7 of the last 20 games with the stats suggesting we've actually over performed in terms of results

 

[Wards]

Not sure how this will show but it looks like we're barely averaging a shot more per game than we did in the PL which is surprising. Sadly no shot data that I can drum up for the last two Champ seasons prior to this.

Wilders promotion season saw us score at a rate of 1.70 goals per game.

Season	Division	Goals Scored	Matches Played	Avg Goals/Game	Avg Shots/Game
2024–25	Championship	60	44	1.36	10.38
2023–24	Premier League	35	38	0.92	9.61
2022–23	Championship	73	46	1.59	N/A
2021–22	Championship	63	46	1.37	N/A
2020–21	Premier League	20	38	0.53	8.53
2019–20	Premier League	39	38	1.03	9.32
2018–19	Championship	78	46	1.70	N/A
2017–18	Championship	62	46	1.35	N/A
2016–17	League One	92	46	2.00	N/A

So, hardly thrilling against much inferior opposition but 17/18 and 21/22 similar in terms of goals per game.

Updated, with more shot data. Interestingly this season shows more shots per game than Wilders previous two Championship campaigns but noticeably fewer than Hecky's sides which were considered a bit dull. Big drop offs for the PL seasons which is entirely expected.

Season	Division	Goals Scored	Matches Played	Avg Goals/Game	Avg Shots/Game
2024–25	Championship	60	44	1.36	11.26
2023–24	Premier League	35	38	0.92	8.05
2022–23	Championship	73	46	1.59	13.74
2021–22	Championship	63	46	1.37	13.96
2020–21	Premier League	20	38	0.53	9.47
2019–20	Premier League	39	38	1.03	9.97
2018–19	Championship	78	46	1.70	10.33
2017–18	Championship	62	46	1.35	10.28
2016–17	League One	92	46	2.00	14.65

 

[RammyBlade]

I thought the 90 points comment was a bit odd, hopefully it was an after-match spur of the moment thing and that in reality he'll focus on using the next two games to prepare the squad for the playoffs. Which doesn't mean we don't want to win games as it's a good habit and builds confidence, but the points total shouldn't be the focus

Maybe he gets a bonus for 90 points ?

 

[sufc323]

I still don't think Wilder knows his best side or formation yet. I'm still trying to work out what our style of play is, but there seems to be a lot of square pegs in round holes.

The 3 behind the lone striker seems disjointed and unbalanced from trying to shoehorn Brewster in, with BBD on the right when we know he's more effective from the left, and Hamer drifting in from the left which leaves Burrows exposed as we saw against Leeds. Meanwhile, the 2 actual wingers that we have, Rak Sakyi and Brooks, seem to get limited game time.

We've played a CM at RB despite loaning 2 in (I know injuries haven't helped that part) and a CB on loan who cannot seem to displace our limited and often out of position captain.

We arguably have the best attacking options in the league in terms of squad depth and matchwinners, yet we seem reliant on trying to be solid rather than attacking, despite our best defender this season being out since Christmas.

What worries me going into the play offs, is when the opposition score first, we don't seem to be able to find a way back in. We only seem to be able to play 1 way, which is narrow and through the middle which is very easy for the opposing team to put bodies behind and stifle anything.

 

[Frank the tank]

I thought the 90 points comment was a bit odd, hopefully it was an after-match spur of the moment thing and that in reality he'll focus on using the next two games to prepare the squad for the playoffs. Which doesn't mean we don't want to win games as it's a good habit and builds confidence, but the points total shouldn't be the focus

It's just the kind of thing he says
He will still rest players who need it
If wed been promoted last night he would have said it even thought the players would be on the piss from now till june

 

[Dkc]

We only seem to be able to play 1 way, which is narrow and through the middle which is very easy for the opposing team to put bodies behind and stifle anything.

See my post above. We are constantly probing on the wings, getting the ball to the byline, crossing or pulling it back.

"We can only play one way" is becoming a tired cliche

 

[sufc323]

See my post above. We are constantly probing on the wings, getting the ball to the byline, crossing or pulling it back.

"We can only play one way" is becoming a tired cliche

We're the 3rd lowest crosses of the ball in the league, Alex Neil mentioned after Millwall beat us that their game plan was to stay narrow because of this, and it worked.

 

[RecordBreakers]

I've watched every game this season. We're constantly trying new set-pieces, unexpected passes, very fast moves, combinations to create openings. Most of the time you can see what we're trying to do, and sometimes it works. We sometimes play the unexpected ball with pace through the middle, which has the chance of giving us a one-on-one. The interplay on the wings outside the opposition box is often very good to watch, with players switching positions and interchanging passes. This often results in releasing a man close to the goal-line. Our fast switching from defence to attack can be fantastic to watch. Sometimes it fails but you always know the intention. It can be laborious to break down solid defences but our players are always making runs off the ball, creating space for a pass. And our finishing is often top draw, Campbell, BBD and Hamer especially.

But yeah, the only think that Wilder and Knill say to the players in training is 'give it to Gus'.

If we create so many good passes close to the goal line then how come we are only better than Oxford & Plymouth for crosses into the box?

 

[Dkc]

A lot of the time, we pull it back as opposed to crossing it.

 

[robbiez666]

I think the issue here is that the fans can accept being battered in the Premier League if we then get relegated and have an exciting season in the Championship.

Sure, the results have been very good but the performances generally haven't. Slow, boring, effective. Soz looking at it, we can have a successful and unfulfilling season in the Championship followed by an unsuccessful horror show in the Premier League.

That way of thinking is entitled but it's an entertainment business as much as a results business for a lot of fans.

 

[54yrblade]

I think the issue here is that the fans can accept being battered in the Premier League if we then get relegated and have an exciting season in the Championship.

Sure, the results have been very good but the performances generally haven't. Slow, boring, effective. Soz looking at it, we can have a successful and unfulfilling season in the Championship followed by an unsuccessful horror show in the Premier League.

That way of thinking is entitled but it's an entertainment business as much as a results business for a lot of fans.

And slow, boring, effective performances are, in part, responsible for the dire 'atmosphere' we've seen (but not heard) this season

 

[mattbianco1]

The JTW was crucial but didn't in retrospect carry us forward. BBD has been a disappointment to be frank

I keep seeing this, but i don't think it's fair on him.
His best position is LW and he's been mostly deployed on the RW.

In 17 apps (13 starts), he has 7 goal involvements (4 goals, 1 assist)... from a position he's clearly not comfortable in.

Out squad goal involvements is:

1. Hamer - 16 (9 goals)
2. Campbell - 11 (10 goals)
3. JRS - 9 (7 goals)
4. Burrows - 8 (5 goals)
5. O'Hare - 8 (2 goals)
6. BBD - 7 (4 goals)
7. Brewster - 7 (4 goals)

BBD is joint 6th on the list in just 17 games.
Burrows and O'Hare are 1 involvement ahead and have played 43 & 42 games respectively

 

[Blade56]

Only just seen WBA sacked Mowbray. Another dinosaur of the modern game bites the dust

 

[robbiez666]

And slow, boring, effective performances are, in part, responsible for the dire 'atmosphere' we've seen (but not heard) this season

Yep. Even in average seasons there are usually a fair few exciting games, for one reason or another. Apart from a handful, they all seem to merge into one this season.

 

[Alex Cheeseright]

I'd be quite happy if our best manager in the past 30 years is still here next season. He's certainly over-performed this season regardless of the outcome of the play-offs,

Time and time again we've got rid of a decent manager in the belief that we can get someone 'better'. Time and time again it's been a step backwards.

Get rid of Porterfield, get Billy McEwan instead. Get rid of Warnock, get Brian Robson in. Sack Danny Wilson, get David Weir in. Get rid of Clough, get Adkins in. Each time we thought things would be better under the new guy. They weren't.

As I've said before, fans today seem to want change if we don't win every game. They come out with personal abuse of decent players and a very good manager. They want a change whenever there's a bad result.

Of course we're a work in progress and mistakes have been made in selection and tactics. But we've out-performed 21 teams in the division this season. And in other seasons our points tally would have given us an automatic place.

I fear for the future of the club if an obviously excellent management team is deemed 'not good enough' for the Blades because we only finish 3rd out of 23 teams in arguably the most competitive division in the world.

Mostly accurate. My only, way for this post only, problem is out performing g 21 other teams. On the face of it that is true but we all saw how we played this year with the talent we have. I'm sorry but we were well below par almost every game. Imagine if we had played like we did against Coventry for most of the season. Yes we were playing with alot of teens early in the season with little experience and we were winning ugly. But when the first teamers got back I would say the standard of play did not improve.
Finishing 3rd at the start of the season would have been way beyond reasonable dreams. It was how the story unfolded that makes people upset. Had we sucked at the beginning and gone on a tear at the end, different story, same position. 3rd. Wilder would be considered a genius. Not how it played out.
So, dkc, you are not wrong but peel back some of the layers and you see what is firing folks up. "Football is not just a game, it's more important than that..." B Shankly.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The football adage " your only as good as your last game" and the definition of accountability " accepting the consequences of your actions whether they are good or bad and owning up to them" ring true for SUFC and Chris Wilder at the moment. There can be no argument when the going is good he has proven to be a very successful manager. Unfortunately when the going gets tough his track record is poor in overcoming adversity and recognising his faults.

What has gone on before is now irrelevant. We have failed with automatic but have the best squad of players that are capable of winning the play offs. The problem for me is the managers current mentality. In our last promotion season PH after a 6 game run without a win accepted growing criticism Norwoods legs had gone. He brought in Doyle and McAtee and we got over the line. Anel and JLT isn't working yet CW continues to persevere with a duo that are now costing us vital points. Holding and Anel worked against Cardiff drawing praise from the manager yet JLT is shoe horned back in yesterday. It is this partnership that will cost us promotion imo. Holding has to be first pick for the remaining games with Anel being the better of the 2 to play alongside him. It improves our aerial prowess with the benefit of Anels pace sweeping up.

PH also brought in McAtees running into the team. We have a player of similar ilk in O'Hare yet CW is obsessed with giving Brewster a game in the 10 position. He's not a 10 never will be because he doesn't possess the work rate. Brewster is a forward and could play a role in a 2 up top alongside Campbell or Cannon but COH has to start as a 10.

It is the refusal to accept he's got it wrong that is CW's mill stone around his neck. Tactically he has failed in all the big games against the top sides this season, yesterdays Hoof ball 4-4-2 an example. At the Cardiff match many were praising him for seeing the light and dropping JLT or so we thought when after match suggestions it was only down to injury surfaced.

The supporters are divided at the moment and need a lift as we still have it in our gift to be promoted. A positive press conference acknowledging mistakes have been made but will be put right and a rallying call to all pull together would go some way to uniting us prior to the play offs.

Wilder said JLT wasn’t 100% pre game Cardiff, which was the reason for the change.

 

[bertieblade]

A lot of the time, we pull it back as opposed to crossing it.

But most of the time the keeper does not have a safe to make as we do not create chances.
Oxford and Plymouth should have been taken to the cleaners as they have conceded more than most in the division but we created very few chances, which unfortunately blows your theories out of the water.
All for giving praise where it is due but unfortunately, Wilders slow laborious methods enable the opposition to get back to their positions, have a chat, cup of coffee and needless to say watch as we play all our football in front of them and create bil nil

 

[RecordBreakers]

A lot of the time, we pull it back as opposed to crossing it.

Which then gets recycled back and further back hence our slow boring style. Now I'm pretty sure Chris isn't telling them to do that but it sure is his job to see them doing it and correct it.

 

[Frank the tank]

But most of the time the keeper does not have a safe to make as we do not create chances.
Oxford and Plymouth should have been taken to the cleaners as they have conceded more than most in the division but we created very few chances, which unfortunately blows your theories out of the water.
All for giving praise where it is due but unfortunately, Wilders slow laborious methods enable the opposition to get back to their positions, have a chat, cup of coffee and needless to say watch as we play all our football in front of them and create bil nil

Most of the time....? So how did we finish 3rd then