Wilders "back up" signings

[ThatJa]

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

 

[Johnnyblade]

After tonight’s result and no one stepping up to take their chance I totally agree,seems like the quality of the second 11 would struggle if put in the first team to cover injuries,it’s a long season and definitely a worry.

 

[ThatJa]

It also makes me question why we released Cranie who hardly put a foot wrong when called upon only put Kean Bryan as a CB for these types of games...

 

[Champagneblade]

It also makes me question why we released Cranie who hardly put a foot wrong when called upon only put Kean Bryan as a CB for these types of games...

Agree with this. I'd rather have someone right footed but capable than someone who is left footed but potentially not good enough.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

I said at the start we needed another CB as cover. I shudder to imagine Bryan playing in the prem.

Osborn, I think is ok cover. Jags is great to come on like he did vs Everton but not to start Gotta sign a CB and RB in Jan though.

CB, I'd personally go for Calum Chambers. Failing that, raid Middlesborough for Dael Fry.

As a stop gap, I'd get Danny Simpson who is without a club. He's a tosser, and not great ... in fact, not even good... but is better than Freeman and does have prem experience. He could provide that touch of cover until Jan, just in case.

 

[Akinbiyi]

If Egan gets crocked we bring in Jags at CB. Not Stearman. Not ever. Please.
If JOC gets crocked we shift Stevens inside and put Osborn LWB. Not ideal as it’s a big reshuffle but I rate Osborn personally.
If Basham gets crocked then I’m not sure. Assume it would be Jags but I don’t like that. He should be CB or nowt.

The lack of depth at CB is a worry I agree.

 

[bromtom]

As single positions they'd slot in and probably do alright, but when you make a team out of the number 2s it's not great, but really, should it be? I suppose as much as you look at a team and think "they should be winning that", a proper team who play together regularly at a decent level should beat the strangers most times.

Having seen Freeman K gradually transition from 11 goal wonder wingback to what he is now, I think I'd be most concerned at RWB, and that would be my immediate priority in the JTW, everyone else would do an ok job with the rest of the first XI around them, but Keiron Freeman, can't defend, bur he can't be arsed to attack either now.

RWB cover, better LCB cover, younger CB cover, Bash understudy. Priority order.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Can always have various options to chande system

Stearman and Jagielka are beyyer in a Back 4.

Wilder had money to spend and left us a bit weak at the back (and keeper cover).

Any budget leads to marginal choices.

How much would Chambers be for example.

Agree re Cranie but the manager understood the player's wish to play regularly.

Our main needs were pace and creativity at the new level.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I cannot think of any member on here who was not happy with the summer incoming signings.I actually pointed to the obvious weakest areas for cover and there they are there still.

Some will work, some won't, and forever will be the case.

 

[finlaytheblade]

If Egan gets crocked we bring in Jags at CB. Not Stearman. Not ever. Please.
If JOC gets crocked we shift Stevens inside and put Osborn LWB. Not ideal as it’s a big reshuffle but I rate Osborn personally.
If Basham gets crocked then I’m not sure. Assume it would be Jags but I don’t like that. He should be CB or nowt.

The lack of depth at CB is a worry I agree.

When we throw the entire back up squad in together it is rag tag & bobtail.
Our system is complicated that's why some opposition find us tough to play against.
We rely very much on the tried and tested nucleus of the team.
Wilder calls it spot on saying slotting one two or three in the team doesn't harm the team structure can even enhance it.without the team leaders and Egan is a big part of that now! we find it tough as these cup games show.
A number of squad players are finding it difficult to adjust to our system and with centre backs unable to play as the system requires we look very poor as a team.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

Can always have various options to chande system

Stearman and Jagielka are beyyer in a Back 4.

Wilder had money to spend and left us a bit weak at the back (and keeper cover).

Any budget leads to marginal choices.

How much would Chambers be for example.

Agree re Cranie but the manager understood the player's wish to play regularly.

Our main needs were pace and creativity at the new level.

Yeah, true. The players Wilder signed are ones we needed. If he splashed on a CB instead of one of the others, we'd end up short elsewhere.

Hopefully, in Jan, the Prince digs in his pockets and frees some cash. If Chambers is too high, go Championship- Dawson at West Brom wouldnt cosy a bomb and is a good, experienced player.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Th

Yeah, true. The players Wilder signed are ones we needed. If he splashed on a CB instead of one of the others, we'd end up short elsewhere.

Hopefully, in Jan, the Prince digs in his pockets and frees some cash. If Chambers is too high, go Championship- Dawson at West Brom wouldnt cosy a bomb and is a good, experienced player.

There in a nutshell, Dawson went to Watford for £20m or more this summer.

They let 8 in last weekend!

 

[bromtom]

I cannot think of any member on here who was not happy with the summer incoming signings.I actually pointed to the obvious weakest areas for cover and there they are there still.

Some will work, some won't, and forever will be the case.

Lots of people pointed out we were still weak in a lot of areas. Doesn't take a genius to see it, particularly at RWB.

Personally I had no doubts about Baldock but Freeman has been cack for a while, and we've previously had to resort to playing Bash there due to injuries to both.

It's just that going into the Prem with Lavery, Clarke and Evans as half our strike force would have been suicidal, so you have to prioritise.

 

[William]

I cannot think of any member on here who was not happy with the summer incoming signings.I actually pointed to the obvious weakest areas for cover and there they are there still.

Some will work, some won't, and forever will be the case.

I’m not saying I wasn’t happy pre season but we definitely have an unbalanced squad following the summer. Wilder has spent big on attacking options which was possibly the right thing to do, but it does leave us a bit weak in numbers at the back. If one of the back three get injured not only do we lose at the back but it will affect our shape going forward. Just the thought of Kieron Freeman having to track back against a Premier League counter attack sends shivers down the spine.

 

[LenTednTony]

Personally, I think Osborn has a it of inadequacies that would exclude him from my choice at left wing back (but who else realistically do we have)and the rest along g the back are not capable of playing the style we are known for. CW/AK need to work hard on this so as to ensure we don’t come up short. The second string should be playing how the first eleven do and, frankly, they look as though they have never heard of overlapping centre backs. K Freeman is ....meh.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

Th



There in a nutshell, Dawson went to Watford for £20m or more this summer.

They let 8 in last weekend!

I had no idea he moved there. Or that he cost 20 million. Thats ridiculous. I thought 8 million, at most. More along the lines of 4 or 5 tbh.

If he's fetching 20 million then Egan and JOC must be worth 30-40 becausr they are both much better than him.

And theres me thinking he'd be a relatively affordable option as back up.

20 million. Roger me rigid. Makes Moose's 10 million look a steal.

 

[ATL Recs]

If Egan gets crocked we bring in Jags at CB. Not Stearman. Not ever. Please.
If JOC gets crocked we shift Stevens inside and put Osborn LWB. Not ideal as it’s a big reshuffle but I rate Osborn personally.
If Basham gets crocked then I’m not sure. Assume it would be Jags but I don’t like that. He should be CB or nowt.

The lack of depth at CB is a worry I agree.

Seem to recall posts like this after the Barnet game regarding Stearnan who stepped up quite adequately when injuries n suspensions kicked in the run in
last night showed again how important the defence is to for our system to work

 

[sufcboy95]

It’s the same old same old. Make 10 changes and we’re shit. However play 1 or 2 of the fringe players on a Saturday and it doesn’t make that much difference.
Would I be too fussed if say Jagielka had to come in for Egan? Or Besic had to come in for fleck? Absolutely not.

 

[Cheesebored]

I had no idea he moved there. Or that he cost 20 million. Thats ridiculous. I thought 8 million, at most. More along the lines of 4 or 5 tbh.

If he's fetching 20 million then Egan and JOC must be worth 30-40 becausr they are both much better than him.

And theres me thinking he'd be a relatively affordable option as back up.

20 million. Roger me rigid. Makes Moose's 10 million look a steal.

5.4million.

 

[metalblade]

Not only have the back up centre backs shown they are not good enough so have the back up midfielders. It certainly looks to me that Morrison and Besic might as well not be at the club. Hard to say about our attackers when they get zero service.
We were up against a good league one sides reserves last night for Christ sake, how many times have we said it in the past teams can have loads of talent but is is useless when they have no desire, passion or work ethic and that is all that the United players showed last night.
It would seem like some of the comments seen in Roy's view from are correct we are only one or two injuries away from a relegation team. There really is no excuse for a shocking performance. Well done Sunderland they fully deserved that win at least their first eleven know if standards drop someone is waiting to take their place.

 

[TaipeiBlade]

5.4million.

Lol, I was about to say.

5.4 is fair enough. Much more like it. Shame he moved, he'd have been decent cover for us.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

I don't think it's really fair to write off all of the back up players. Apart from the cup games, it's highly unlikely that 4-5 will ever be on the pitch at the same time. It'd be fairer to judge them if we pick up injuries/suspensions and they start for the first team in the league and then play garbage.

We know what Jags, Osborn, L Freeman have got to offer as they've shown us already this season and they've been fine. Too many changes teaches you nothing and is likely to end up with a disjointed team that look like they've never played together, because, well they haven't.

I'd rather have a half strength team in cup games if Wilder is bothered about the result. e.g.

Moore
Osborn
Basham
Jagielka
O'Connell
K.Freeman
Morrison
L.Freeman
Fleck/Norwood
McBurnie
Mousset

Bench:
Verrips
Stevens
Baldock
Stearman
Fleck/Norwood
Robinson
Clarke

 

[Lane Ender]

Any of those back up players exept for Bryan would probably do an adéquate job bécause they would havé good players around thèm.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

It’s the same old same old. Make 10 changes and we’re shit. However play 1 or 2 of the fringe players on a Saturday and it doesn’t make that much difference.
Would I be too fussed if say Jagielka had to come in for Egan? Or Besic had to come in for fleck? Absolutely not.

This just about sums it up. Group of players slung together, most with hardly any game time, some with none. It isn't going to look very pretty or effective, but also isn't much of a reflection of how individual players would fair if they were brought into the first team.

As for the January window, well unless we are really struggling I reckon it will be two or three in at most. And they will be upgrades to the first XI and not replacements for any playing last night.

 

[Bladezz]

This is the issue with all promoted teams. We are carrying some league one players and we know they would get torn apart in the premiership.

That’s why staying up this season is so important. As we can release the likes of K Freeman and go and buy a right back, aiming to be better than Baldock. Then let them battle it out.

The turnover of players is difficult but our speed of progress has made it more difficult. Look at teams like WBA basically have 2 first teams all of a similar standard. CW has suggested that’s his aim but it takes time.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

The turnover of players is difficult but our speed of progress has made it more difficult. Look at teams like WBA basically have 2 first teams all of a similar standard. CW has suggested that’s his aim but it takes time.

..... and a lot of money.

 

[BLADES1988]

Luckily I don’t think all 11 first teamers will be injured at once

 

[Harrisblade]

Luckily I don’t think all 11 first teamers will be injured at once

Another bloody Happy Clapper!

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

We play a unique system as we all know, a system that requires each man to pull together and do their own job. You have Egan who stays back slotting into JOCs position when he goes on the attack, you have Basham who takes Egans position whilst he's covering JOCs and then you have Baldock that takes Bashams spot if we're being countered the team kind of pivots right/left dependant of the wing we attack. Its a wonderful system and its worked for 3 seasons now, but in the cup games against both Blackburn/Sunderland (You could argue Barnet last season too) we weren't able to replicate the system we're so used to seeing because of our fringe/backup players, for example..

Stearman isn't as good as Egan and I wouldn't trust him to be the "wall" - He was a liability v Sunderland and more often than not looked for a backwards pass
Jagielka isn't as good as Basham, his legs have gone
Bryan isn't a center back (imo)
Osborn is nowhere near the level of player that Stevens is
K Freeman isn't and never will be as good as Baldock attacking or defending

So now this brings me onto the main subject of this thread.

We would be royally fucked if JOC/Basham/Stevens/Baldock/Egan got injured because our backup aren't good enough to do the roles these guys play. If a combination of these got injured I worry.

Totally disagree with a lot on this thread.

Last nights 11 were those who have barely played in the first team, haven't been here long and are playing a system that is unfamiliar and takes time to learn and fully come to terms with. All 11 players thrown together at once.

This is a lot different to asking one of them to step into the first team and cover 1 position.

It will take a few seasons until we have the luxury of being able to play a second string capable of applying the same system as the first 11.

Individually, a few of those in last nights team have already shown what they can offer to the first team.

The world record time for CWs post match interview tells you all you need to know about his priorities and concerns.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Not only have the back up centre backs shown they are not good enough so have the back up midfielders. It certainly looks to me that Morrison and Besic might as well not be at the club. Hard to say about our attackers when they get zero service.
We were up against a good league one sides reserves last night for Christ sake, how many times have we said it in the past teams can have loads of talent but is is useless when they have no desire, passion or work ethic and that is all that the United players showed last night.
It would seem like some of the comments seen in Roy's view from are correct we are only one or two injuries away from a relegation team. There really is no excuse for a shocking performance. Well done Sunderland they fully deserved that win at least their first eleven know if standards drop someone is waiting to take their place.

What an over reaction.

Luke Freeman - played v Chelsea/Palace
Ben Osborn - played v Chelsea
Mousset - impressed in the league, scored v Everton
Jagielka - impressed v Everton
Robinson - impressed several times this season

So all this 'we are one or two injuries away from a relegation team', what a load of rubbish.