Wilder OUT - megathread

[S17 Blade 1889]

Who's fault is it if players only turn up for 1 game a week of 2 games?

The whole thing about successful football is consistency.

If all our players were consistently good they would have cost/be worth 15/30 million.

1. The manager who picks/buys them
2. Other Championship teams are capable - Hull
3. Not true, otherwise no team would be successful in their respective leagues and go on winning runs, Norwood was never a £30m player but Mr Consistency for years

To note, I like Wilder but some of this has to be on him, there must be some objectivity on responses from both sides.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wilder has virtually welded himself into the position by assembling his squad. What replacement with any ambition would want to take on that load of unmotivated aging crocks? Seriously.

Isn’t that the issue? Not that the signings aren’t motivated, but that they can’t be.

Any new manager has to battle on with this squad, clearly needing to avoid relegation. Then a complete rebuild. The fan boys would be all over him if there are a few setbacks. Despite crying for more time for the current incumbent.

 

[Champagneblade]

These weekly wage figures are off Capology so not 100% accurate but won't be far off.

Doherty - £55k
Choudhury - £50k
Phillips - £50k
BBD - £35k
Riedewald - £25k
Kitching - £18k
Donovan - £10k

That's £243k a week in wages on our summer signings and more than likely loan fees on top for the loanees.

Are we seriously saying we couldn't have found better RB's than Doherty and Hamza with £105k a week to play with?

Looking at what we're paying Donovan compared to BBD are we saying we couldn't have a Donovan equivalent for the left hand side?

Our recruitment has become lazy.

I qhestion what the recruitment team does.

I’m not saying the PL recruitment was good but at least it looked like effort had been made and the likes of Slimane and Traore have actually kicked on elsewhere.

I kind of expect occasional players to come up that I’ve not heard of that are unearthed by skilled and resourceful recruitment professionals.

Whilst I know we seem to have been limited on fees, I don’t get any indication that much resourcefulness has been in place for these. Basically UK based freebies, over the hill and nobody else interested preferable.

 

[Booker4]

These weekly wage figures are off Capology so not 100% accurate but won't be far off.

Doherty - £55k
Choudhury - £50k
Phillips - £50k
BBD - £35k
Riedewald - £25k
Kitching - £18k
Donovan - £10k

That's £243k a week in wages on our summer signings and more than likely loan fees on top for the loanees.

Are we seriously saying we couldn't have found better RB's than Doherty and Hamza with £105k a week to play with?

Looking at what we're paying Donovan compared to BBD are we saying we couldn't have a Donovan equivalent for the left hand side?

Doherty on 55k a week. Yes that's definitely right. You trust that. And people are laughing at my posts! Nobody knows what the players are on. I very much doubt those figures are accurate. Nobody knows what we're paying Phillips neither.

 

[Bramhall Lane blade]

praise and a grumble for me today.
Praise to get a formation that worked for the most part. Grumble that he destroyed it with poor subs handing Wolves the initiative. Some very slow, old players out there and plenty of hoof today

Against a div 2 side,I thought we were too slow all game,crap.

 

[Booker4]

It’s not just this spell, his recruitment has been extreamly poor for years now. At least 100m of his signings have walked out the door for free or at a big loss to the club due to either their own poor performance, the clubs poor performance (which is down to him in large part) or the clubs poor contact management which I accept is not on wilder.

What have we had to show for the likes of Brewster, McBurnie, Robinson, Egan, Freeman, Berge etc. millions walking out the door for free or at a loss. This is the kind of money we will never get back.

Yes 2 seasons ago we finished on 90 points. He did a commendable job assembling the squad and grinding results out after an awful relegation. He ruined it and threw it away after Christmas. Capitulated. - he sees two key players get injured in Souttar and Arblaster. Replaces Souttar with Holding, refuses to play him presumably because he’s signed someone who’s barely kicked a ball for 3 years, sticks with Robinson who gets skinned at Wembley for the equaliser. Wastes £10m on cannon who doesn’t fit his “style” of play and a massive loan fee on a washed up BBD to play him out of position and leave out the likes of JRS and Andre Brooks.

And yes, I firmly believe he’s chosen to sign over 30 year old players who’ve had their heyday, because he literally said at the end of last season he wanted to sign a load of experience.

These frees and loans are not free! They will be commanding massive wages, loan fees and agent fees which will probably be more than comparable to signing a young upcoming player out of league one or Europe permanently. He’s done that by choice.

I see your point there on transfers. I really do. However, it all sounds very simple when you say let's sign someone from league one or Europe and they'll be better. We dont know the wages of if Rothwell, Jairo etc. One fan posted Doherty is on 55k a week as a back up right back because a site on the internet said so.

Players from league one and abroad regularly bomb and then you're stuck with them as much as some players from league one excel. Like we have with Chong.

Yes, Wilder did say he wanted more experience. I'm certain one player he wanted was Phillips. We can all agree that he wanted him I'm sure.
Jairo was a sensible signing who did well last season.

Wilder's point was he needed experience to compliment the younger players like Seriki, Peck, Cannon, Arblaster, One. I'm sure if he could he'd have signed Lewis Dobin on a permanent from Villa and we'd all be loving that signing.

I do agree we need to use the foreign market more. But it's not guaranteed you get success. Far from it. There's some right dross from abroad that clubs in the championship have as well as good foreign signings.

 

[Champagneblade]

What’s more we’ve now got a completely full squad too.

So come January - a future saviour landmark I’m sure - we will need to offload either some of the aged dross or lose a key player in order to remotely reshuffle the pack.

We must not look beyond the end of our noses when we recruit. Apart from Oné, the squad boasts nil young players. We’ve also managed to assemble a squad, that’s squad, not team, completely devoid of pace with minor exceptions which came through the youth, Seriki and Oné. It lends itself to a pedestrian style of play because they aren’t capable of shifting quicker. Hardly any flair players.

I want Chris to turn it around but he seems to have dug a hole for himself with this squad.

He needs to find a set up that masks its inadequacies and spoiler alert it isn’t 4-4-2!

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

I

It’s absolutely crazy ain’t it. A majority of the fans are the issue with the bladey bladeyness, the got to get the club, the Jokanovic and Selles didn’t work. I just want a coach and players who are professional athletes. Fuck “getting” us and the “culture”

Its not bladey bladeness for me with Hecky.

He got us promoted and to the FA cup semi final.

Plus most of the players he signed played well and made us money.

He's a good football man and good at his job.

If not him, then I'm all for shaking it up a bit. I've followed Utd for 50 odd years, and we have never won a major trophy. What we've done in the past isn't it hasn't worked, whereas other clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth have looked outside the box and been successful at it. More than happy to try and alternative. I'd be happy with Hecky just to try and salvage something for what is looking like a very mediocre season.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Last night was horrendous. i drove all the way to fleetwood, left work early, filled the car up with overpriced diesel, cold, late drive home and i was as p***ed of with the performance as everyone around me. Everyone has the right to be.

But i can't help but feel like that reaction from the fans at the end is extremely harsh on some of the individuals that do give a f**k.
Peck, Arblaster, Wilder, Donovan, Cooper etc don't deserve it.

Reidewald looked as if he wasn't bothered and that attitude doesn't get him back in over Phillips.
Rothwell should be named Robwell, he's robbing a wage and our position in the summer saved his squad place because we can't replace him.
RND is not an option unless were in a back five and there is a centre back dedicated to backing him up

Credit to Fleetwood, the effort was there and we didn't deserve anything even though we chucked everything at it from a changes perspective for the last 15 minutes.

No wonder the manager went straight down the tunnel. He put his neck on the line in the press conference, said we wanted to progress and warned they players that were going to be selected they needed purpose. they chucked it. left him looking foolish.

You can't blame the coaching staff every week. We know were under scrutiny with the EFL. The owners have put us in a shite situation and we've had to conform to SCR to make sure nothing from a football club perspective attracts a points deduction because off it and financially were a mess. The only hope we have is that on a footballing stage were legit and free from punishment.

Were far from perfect at the minute, the lack of fitness drives me mad every week. But there is no way i want this coaching team and manager out because they cant make a silk purse from a sows ear.

They didnt tell RND to score the own goal
They didnt tell the midfield to not bother closing down and marking opposition
They didnt tell us to regress on the ball

There is only so much they can do.

I have no doubt at half time that 11 was told if you dont make this game yours in the next 15 minutes your going to be in for a long night and they came out and did the opposite.

Stick with Cooper, McCallum, Burrows, Seriki, Choudhury, Tanganga, Kitching, Phillips, Arblaster, Peck, Bamford, Donovan, One regularly and we will get some results but if we continually rely on some of the players that repeatedly shaft us like tonight and like the others last year we will see a lot more of this.

Our best 11 goes well in the championship. Injuries will decide where we finish because 3 medium to long term injuries and we could be in relegation battle.

That squad isn't worth the paper its written on and the sooner thats accepted the better. We've got a championship 11-14 if your lucky - beyond that and the fringe of the squad were well off it.

But lets all blame Chris Wilder.

Football managers are extremely well paid and job security is low. A huge part of that is because they are required to take responsibility for things that are largely out of their control.

Wilder actually has more control than most at this level because he's in charge of signings. But you aren't going to find much sympathy for football managers

 

[Booker4]

Well, that’s not actually the case, is it. Everything you’ve said is just your opinion, and nothing more than that. It certainly doesn’t make it true.

It is a fact that we've had a 12 point deduction hovering over us, right at the time when the transfer window was coming to a conclusion when so much business happens

It is a fact that we've sold our best three creative players, one at the death leaving is very little time to replace him.

It's also a fact that the budget is limited, although I accept this is subjective because we don't have concrete figures. I think the lack of permanent signings indicates the budget is low. Fans say these free transfers are on huge money. How do they know that and to get championship quality as a permanent signing doesn't come cheap because the transfer fee is into the millions to get decent championship quality, like what Norwich paid for Brookes. Promising league one players can cost upwards of £3m.

It's a fact that Seriki and One are injured and have missed most of the games this season, and Chong who could have provided some creativity.

 

[brownblade]

These weekly wage figures are off Capology so not 100% accurate but won't be far off.

Doherty - £55k
Choudhury - £50k
Phillips - £50k
BBD - £35k
Riedewald - £25k
Kitching - £18k
Donovan - £10k

That's £243k a week in wages on our summer signings and more than likely loan fees on top for the loanees.

Are we seriously saying we couldn't have found better RB's than Doherty and Hamza with £105k a week to play with?

Looking at what we're paying Donovan compared to BBD are we saying we couldn't have a Donovan equivalent for the left hand side?

They're miles off TBF. I could see Kitching and Donovan being relatively accurate. You'd hope we're paying half (max) of the top 5 put together.

 

[Barnette]

Isn’t that the issue? Not that the signings aren’t motivated, but that they can’t be.

Any new manager has to battle on with this squad, clearly needing to avoid relegation. Then a complete rebuild. The fan boys would be all over him if there are a few setbacks. Despite crying for more time for the current incumbent.

I would be prepared to give a new manager plenty of time - this squad is definitely not their fault. Honestly I would just be relieved that the Wilder era is finally over.

 

[Brian Deane]

These weekly wage figures are off Capology so not 100% accurate but won't be far off.

Doherty - £55k
Choudhury - £50k
Phillips - £50k
BBD - £35k
Riedewald - £25k
Kitching - £18k
Donovan - £10k

That's £243k a week in wages on our summer signings and more than likely loan fees on top for the loanees.

Are we seriously saying we couldn't have found better RB's than Doherty and Hamza with £105k a week to play with?

Looking at what we're paying Donovan compared to BBD are we saying we couldn't have a Donovan equivalent for the left hand side?

Did you forget to put a decimal point inbetween those figures cos that's all their worth paying apart from Donovan.

 

[Kona]

A week or two ago, I was all for Wilder staying while we have the off field issues and (seemingly) no money, but now I’m not so sure this is good for either party.

Last night’s result and yet another poor performance, compounded by a lack of self awareness and contradictory interviews smacks of previous patterns that didn’t end well.

I genuinely don’t want this to turn sour for him, but another few results and performances like that and I can’t see how he stays.

He can blame whoever he wants, and I know it hasn’t been easy for him behind the scenes or with losing key players, but…

The recruitment has again been abysmal and the new signings were his signings. Yes, funds were short but we must still be attractive to younger/upcoming talent. Hamza, etc. aren’t on low wages. There was another approach.

He’s got his team he trusts (or does he?!), he picks the team, motives them, chooses the tactics, and oversees the training sessions - and none of that is working properly and hasn’t for some time.

There’s already a split in the fan base about him, and whilst both sides claim the other is in the minority, a few more games like last night and it’ll become a clearer picture.

For balance, it could go the other way but in reality, we haven’t seen enough positives to suggest it will.

I hope the board are reviewing their options.

 

[blade_ben]

I

Its not bladey bladeness for me with Hecky.

He got us promoted and to the FA cup semi final.

Plus most of the players he signed played well and made us money.

He's a good football man and good at his job.

If not him, then I'm all for shaking it up a bit. I've followed Utd for 50 odd years, and we have never won a major trophy. What we've done in the past isn't it hasn't worked, whereas other clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth have looked outside the box and been successful at it. More than happy to try and alternative. I'd be happy with Hecky just to try and salvage something for what is looking like a very mediocre season.

I totally agree. His signings were good and we got a good return on them. I’m really for Hecky becoming DoF and overseeing the lot, he’s a very intelligent man

 

[luffenhamblade]

Disgusting the way how his ‘mate’ Wilder stabbed him in the back.

Blimey, inside information - tell us more, you clearly know it from the inside.

 

[luffenhamblade]

He picked a team with one eye on Stoke and admitted as much in the post match interview.

The clue is post match.. hindsight makes everything rosy. It just doesn’t wash anymore

 

[NerdyBlade]

Did he apologise to the away fans last night in the presser?

Because if not - Peck didn't even start and he's apologised before CW.

 

[SouthStandGBlock]

Doherty on 55k a week. Yes that's definitely right. You trust that. And people are laughing at my posts! Nobody knows what the players are on. I very much doubt those figures are accurate. Nobody knows what we're paying Phillips neither.

Choudry was on £40k at Leicester - I know that for a fact.

Do you think he's taken a drop in wages to sign for us?

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Choudry was on £40k at Leicester - I know that for a fact.

Do you think he's taken a drop in wages to sign for us?

The Choudury signing looks worse every game that passes.

We have Seriki (apparently fit after the next match), Shackleton and Doherty who can all play right back.

We have Peck, Arblaster, Rothwell, Philips, Riedewald and also Shackleton who can also ‘play’ (no laughing at the back) centre midfield.

If we had a bit of money left, as soon as we lost O’Hare and knowing we’d already lost Hamer and Brooks, how we decided the best thing to spend that money on was taking over Choudhury’s expensive contract and not loaning in another young attacking winger with flair or quick striker is beyond me.

 

[Nick Jansky]

It is a fact that we've had a 12 point deduction hovering over us, right at the time when the transfer window was coming to a conclusion when so much business happens

No it isn’t. It’s a rumour put about by the Prince’s people.

It is a fact that we've sold our best three creative players, one at the death leaving is very little time to replace him.

Yep. Happens to many clubs. Wilder chose to prioritise other areas of the team with his recruitment.

It's also a fact that the budget is limited, although I accept this is subjective because we don't have concrete figures. I think the lack of permanent signings indicates the budget is low. Fans say these free transfers are on huge money. How do they know that and to get championship quality as a permanent signing doesn't come cheap because the transfer fee is into the millions to get decent championship quality, like what Norwich paid for Brookes. Promising league one players can cost upwards of £3m.

The budget is reduced but still at a decent level for this division.

What was the fee we paid for O’Hare again? £0, wasn’t it? He was a free transfer. Players choose to run their contracts down for the exact purpose of keeping their transfer fees low and benefiting from a correspondingly higher wage.

It's a fact that Seriki and One are injured and have missed most of the games this season, and Chong who could have provided some creativity.

Again, same for most clubs. Perhaps if we hadn’t prioritised so many CDMs it would have been less of an issue.

So, you are big on rumours and opinions, less so on facts. But that’s fine.

 

[Sean Thornton]

No it isn’t. It’s a rumour put about by the Prince’s people.

Yep. Happens to many clubs. Wilder chose to prioritise other areas of the team with his recruitment.

The budget is reduced but still at a decent level for this division.

What was the fee we paid for O’Hare again? £0, wasn’t it? He was a free transfer. Players choose to run their contracts down for the exact purpose of keeping their transfer fees low and benefiting from a correspondingly higher wage.

Again, same for most clubs. Perhaps if we hadn’t prioritised so many CDMs it would have been less of an issue.

So, you are big on rumours and opinions, less so on facts. But that’s fine.

Stop laughing at the back!

 

[Booker4]

No it isn’t. It’s a rumour put about by the Prince’s people.

Yep. Happens to many clubs. Wilder chose to prioritise other areas of the team with his recruitment.

The budget is reduced but still at a decent level for this division.

What was the fee we paid for O’Hare again? £0, wasn’t it? He was a free transfer. Players choose to run their contracts down for the exact purpose of keeping their transfer fees low and benefiting from a correspondingly higher wage.

Again, same for most clubs. Perhaps if we hadn’t prioritised so many CDMs it would have been less of an issue.

So, you are big on rumours and opinions, less so on facts. But that’s fine.

You're missing the point on the points deduction. It's not a fact that it will happen, obviously. But it is a fact that it was all over the media over the potential of a points deduction and that the EFL are investigating. It's not whether it happens, it's the damage done by it. No other team has had this threat over them. If you think it's had no effect on our transfer budget then I'd very much disagree. You've not said that, don't get me wrong, but you seem determined to make out it's not fact when it is a fact that we've had this hovering over us like a cloud and it's still there. I heavily suspect this has damaged our transfer appeal this summer. Danny Hall was quoted as saying at least two players he knew if we're asking on whether we would have points deducted. It's certainly not going to help is it?

It's irrelevant that ohare was a free and I dont see your point here. The point I'm making is we lost him, Hamer and Brookes all in one window. Thats a fact and what's also a fact is that these three players contributed the bulk of our goals if you add them all up (41 goal contributions between them last season out of a total of 66 total team goals). No other team other than possibly some of the relegated PL teams have lost that number of goals/assists and they have parachute payments to assist a rebuild. Over twenty million pounds of transfer budget and so little spent in return.

I don't know where our budget sits in the division but it's definitely way lower than what we spent last season under Selles/the board

You're right re the cdms but Phillips was brought in because of his quality and Jairo because he did well last season. Maybe Wilder expected Peck to leave but who knows.

We obviously see this differently. I won't accept from you or anyone that Wilder is to blame for our shortcomings this season.

 

[Carlton Blade]

You're missing the point on the points deduction. It's not a fact that it will happen, obviously. But it is a fact that it was all over the media over the potential of a points deduction and that the EFL are investigating. It's not whether it happens, it's the damage done by it. No other team has had this threat over them. If you think it's had no effect on our transfer budget then I'd very much disagree. You've not said that, don't get me wrong, but you seem determined to make out it's not fact when it is a fact that we've had this hovering over us like a cloud and it's still there. I heavily suspect this has damaged our transfer appeal this summer. Danny Hall was quoted as saying at least two players he knew if we're asking on whether we would have points deducted. It's certainly not going to help is it?

It's irrelevant that ohare was a free and I dont see your point here. The point I'm making is we lost him, Hamer and Brookes all in one window. Thats a fact and what's also a fact is that these three players contributed the bulk of our goals if you add them all up (41 goal contributions between them last season out of a total of 66 total team goals). No other team other than possibly some of the relegated PL teams have lost that number of goals/assists and they have parachute payments to assist a rebuild. Over twenty million pounds of transfer budget and so little spent in return.

I don't know where our budget sits in the division but it's definitely way lower than what we spent last season under Selles/the board

You're right re the cdms but Phillips was brought in because of his quality and Jairo because he did well last season. Maybe Wilder expected Peck to leave but who knows.

We obviously see this differently. I won't accept from you or anyone that Wilder is to blame for our shortcomings this season.

Not any of them? That would be saying he is getting the absolute maximum performance level from this group of players. I don't think that's close to being true

 

[Nick Jansky]

We obviously see this differently. I won't accept from you or anyone that Wilder is to blame for our shortcomings this season.

So you’re fine with persisting with 4-4-2 then?

You don’t have to accept anything, of course. You have your opinions, other people have theirs. But, with respect, you do a piss poor job of defending him. In my opinion.

I’ve stated my view elsewhere on here, more than once. I don’t blame him for all of it, the blame goes in quite a few directions. But he has certainly played his part in it.

 

[ben1987]

The 12 point deduction doesn’t even make sense does it.

That’s the points deduction clubs get when they go into administration.

Sheffield United or the company that owns the shares haven’t gone into administration. The company that used to own them, which wasn’t doing anything apart from being sat there dormant has been liquidated but no longer has anything to do with the football club.

Yes, the owners may not have told the EFL about the share ownership change. But to my knowledge there’s no where in the rules that states it’s a mandatory 12 point deduction like it does with administration. I don’t think there is a punishment specified for this offence. So it will likely be discretionary.

If there was a points deduction, I would presume it would be far less than 12. We all know the EFL usually love to bend over when put under any pressure at all. Look at Wednesdays -15

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I won't accept from you or anyone that Wilder is to blame for our shortcomings this season.

You're in denial.

The football is shit and has been for the past three seasons.

They're Wilder's players, Wilder's training methods, Wilder's lineups, Wilder's formations and Wilder's tactics.

 

[Upton_Blade]

Choudry was on £40k at Leicester - I know that for a fact.

Do you think he's taken a drop in wages to sign for us?

He won't have taken any sort of cut. We didn't pay a fee for him but just took over the last year of his contract effectively so we're paying £40k a week for a back up RB who isn't even a RB.

 

[HAP]

No!! We need to change direction

100%, we needed it after the Wembley loss, which the owners tried and failed miserably at it with Selles.

That's what scares me is that they probably think they owe Wilder one after that. And possibly that's what's furthered Wilders ego, shouting he's the man after a win, then hides after a loss. Nothing will change whilst he's at the helm

 

[SBSP]

Has he gone yet?