Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[BladeByChoice]

That's not the definition of insanity, it's just a stupid saying people keep repeating.

There are countless examples of things in life which will yield different results by doing the exact same thing.

I challenge you to give one concrete example of that:

Define you case:
State your variables and constants:
State the values that they hold:

And then show 2 different sets of results from that scenario

 

[BladeByChoice]

My final(ish) word on this. We were in League 1 for 6 seasons. Not all of that time was an unmitigated disaster, although bits were. We got out of League 1 nine years ago, and went on a good run, spending two seasons in the PL, one great, one a disaster. In the five years since the 2021 relegation, the only promotion has been achieved under Paul Heckingbottom. This achievement also got the club out of a considerable financial hole, although it obviously didn't end well. Since his return, Chris Wilder has got the club to one playoff final following a season which should have resulted in automatic promotion. The standard of football, apart from a purple patch from November to February this season, has been grim to watch. It was appalling yesterday.
Considering this, in what universe is the current manager thought to be the answer to all the issues afflicting the club now, and for the foreseeable future??
If people think he is the answer, fair enough, but I just can't see any positive change if he remains.

I’m for Wilder staying next season, for no other reason than I don’t think anyone at the club has a clue how to replace him with a modern management structure DOF/Headcoach ect

But well reasoned posts like this are starting to win me over.

 

[Colombia Blade]

Bit late to the conversation but if Wilder goes who replaces him? I'm all for change if it's for an improvement, but who improves Wilder that a) is available and b) would actually come? Change for change's sake without a strong candidate lined up gives you someone like Selles, who was a complete and utter disaster. If there's someone like Dyche available and willing then fair enough, but sacking Wilder than THEN start looking for a replacement like last time is pure madness

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

I challenge you to give one concrete example of that:

Define you case:
State your variables and constants:
State the values that they hold:

And then show 2 different sets of results from that scenario

I'll not bother because we both already know where you're going with it.

There's many things you can repeatedly perform exactly the same that will eventually produce a different outcome.

The action is the same but getting a different result is dependent on the objective having already been effected by the previous attempts.

In any case it's still not the definition of insanity.

 

[UTB Blade]

So in your opinion Wilder is the only person who should manage us?

Not only next season, but forever.

On that basis we are stuck with Wilder FOREVER?

Post #777:
"I've said it before but the club needs to do proper long-term succession planning for when Wilder leaves, at whatever point that is."

 

[UTB Blade]

So we’re pigs for not agreeing with you?

There was me thinking it was ok to have a difference of opinion without being called a pig.

Hi, The Crab , I wasn't calling you or anyone else a pig.

I was just trying to make the point that, if something that United fans are calling for, is something that would make our rivals happy, maybe that's an indication that it's not the best idea, but obviously others have different opinions and that's fine.

Evidently I didn't express that view in the best possible way, but I wasn't trying to call you or anyone else a pig. Sorry if it came across that way.

UTB

 

[UTB Blade]

Quick reminder of what happened the first time we got rid of wilder:

View attachment 235872

Fancy using the ‘insanity is repeating the same thing’ cliche when you’re defending a manager here on his third stint. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so ridiculous.

Fancy not being able to understand the difference between a managerial change in one set of circumstances, ie the club under long-standing ownership, with experience and understanding of English football, replacing the departing manager with a proven manager already employed by the club in a different capacity, so, in effect, an internal promotion; and a completely different set of circumstances, ie the club under new ownership, new to English football as well as to the club, replacing the departing manager with an unproven gamble unknown to the club. It'd be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous.

 

[Broomhall Blade]

Yeah I think that's more likely to be honest. Problem is once people stop going, it's hard to get them back. It might be a case of people saying they're not going with Wilder in charge but it's hard to get back into the routine once you're out of it

That's my worry, I have 2 days left too renew, I would say I'm about 90% not renewing because I cannot see the club moving forward however small with Wilder in charge.
The 10% is a mix of the thought that Blackburn at home could be the last time I stepped foot in the lane, due to what you have said that I can see me getting out of the routine and finding it hard to get back that routine even when Wilder does leave.
The other thing is I'm 60 this year so qualify for the over 60 rate on my season ticket.There is a little niggle saying you have paid full price for God knows how many years and you finally qualify for a concession and your not renewing.
As well as a moaning git I'm tight as well.

 

[metalblade]

Not true. There's not a massive split. There's a vocal online minority who want shut of Wilder, and will want shut of every manager who doesn't deliver instant success. Unfortunately it's part of today's culture. People get bored easily and want change for change's sake. No promotion? Change the manager, he's shit.

If there was indeed a massive split, we would be hearing anti-Wilder songs from the terraces. We aren't.

Of course there is a lot of criticism, which is often deserved. But to imply that half of our fanbase support sacking Wilder this summer is way off the mark. It's probably less than 10%.

Don't know if you have noticed, but we aren't hearing any sogs from the terraces either pro or anti Wilder. All we have is apathy.

 

[I should coco]

Fancy not being able to understand the difference between a managerial change in one set of circumstances, ie the club under long-standing ownership, with experience and understanding of English football, replacing the departing manager with a proven manager already employed by the club in a different capacity, so, in effect, an internal promotion; and a completely different set of circumstances, ie the club under new ownership, new to English football as well as to the club, replacing the departing manager with an unproven gamble unknown to the club. It'd be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous.

And theirin lies the nub of our problem.

I am a Wilder man, not because I think he is the only man capable of the job, nor his Bladey Bladeness, and I do find some of his comments very tiresome.
My problem is, that I have NO faith in our bunxh of clueless Yanks to come up with anything better.

I accept the paucity of ambition my above statemtent suggests, and I'd love a modern DoF and Technical Team structure, but I simply do not trust these chancers to get it remotely right.

I accept that they could surprise me with a sensible and well thought through replacement, but past experience suggests not. They are more likely to just lump on 36 red and let the wheel spin. After all, this is what 'disrupters' do, innit?

 

[UTB Blade]

What about the year Hecky was manager and we got promoted to the PL? Shall we ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative?

Nobody's calling for a Hecky type managerial change, that I've seen, and even if they were, how would we go about it, when that type of managerial change is impossible to replicate, now, because all the circumstances are different? That's why I'm ignoring it - not because it doesn't fit my narrative, but because nobody's asking for it and, even if they were, it's impossible to achieve, because:

1 - The people in charge of the Hecky managerial change no longer own/govern the club. Prince Abdullah had owned us for several years (partly as joint owner) when the Hecky managerial change took place. PA is a huge sports fan, and was experienced in sports club ownership, and experienced in, and knowledgeable about, English football. This is worlds apart from the owners we have now. From what I've read about them on here and elsewhere, they knew virtually nothing about English football, much less owning a football club in the EFL, when they took us on, hence they made such a dog's dinner of the last managerial change. Ok, they've owned us a bit longer, now, but they've still got nothing like the wealth of knowledge and experience that PA had.

2 - We don't have a "Hecky" at the club, to slot seamlessly into the manager's position like he did, as far as I'm aware, to say nothing of Lester and McCall. Hecky was a proven, experienced manager, already employed by the club in a different capacity. He wasn't an 'unknown quantity' like Selles was. He basically got the job as a result of an internal promotion. There are people at the club who could be promoted internally, as Hecky was, but none of them have the depth and breadth of managerial experience of Hecky, I don't think.

The notion that Wilder is the only manager for us is one that even the most staunch Wilderites should be worried about, if it’s the case then the club is absolutely broken beyond repair.

If COH go down the same route as they did with Selles, then we will end up in the same situation. If they restructure the football side of the club, make it fit for purpose and not reliant on one person, it should see an improvement. It might not be instantaneous, then I’m fairly sure you’d jump all over it and demand that Wilder be reappointed, but in the long run we can’t keep being reliant on one bloke who was good for us 7-10 years ago and now seems to have lost his motivational skills.

As it stands with the club, Wilder is the right man. We won’t get promoted with him, but we won’t get relegated either (unless he keeps playing McGuinness and Rothwell). If that’s the limit of our ambition it’s going to be a long few seasons.

Agree with a lot of this - some of it is similar to what I was saying in post#777.

However, no idea why you think this:

"It might not be instantaneous, then I’m fairly sure you’d jump all over it and demand that Wilder be reappointed."

If I wanted instantaneous success, I wouldn't be content with the last two seasons and happy to keep the same manager. I'm not one of the ones "jumping all over" stuff, "demanding" a change of manager, because the one we've got hasn't brought us immediate success. Heck, I was someone who would've given David Weir a bit longer, for Pete's sake!

 

[Eskimo]

That's my worry, I have 2 days left too renew, I would say I'm about 90% not renewing because I cannot see the club moving forward however small with Wilder in charge.
The 10% is a mix of the thought that Blackburn at home could be the last time I stepped foot in the lane, due to what you have said that I can see me getting out of the routine and finding it hard to get back that routine even when Wilder does leave.
The other thing is I'm 60 this year so qualify for the over 60 rate on my season ticket.There is a little niggle saying you have paid full price for God knows how many years and you finally qualify for a concession and your not renewing.
As well as a moaning git I'm tight as well.

I’ve renewed, taking out 2 years when I was a student and worked on match days as a steward it is my 60th consecutive season ticket. I love the wins, hate losing but enjoy the roller coaster ride. Yes I’m looking forward to next year. Gerrit bought Broomhill