Wilder - Get Rid Now, or After Last Game

[loveWalrusDaveTheBlade]

Sanctimonious rubbish.

I rest my case.

 

[ben1987]

All my mates want him to stay. But that isn't objective either.

Best way to gauge it is the crowd. Are they singing "Wilder Out" or Get Out of Our Club?"

if half the fans wanted him out, they'd be letting him know.

You probably drink with mates that are of a similar mind set to yourself. Hence being mates as you share things in common.

Everyone views things in pretty small sample sizes. Your 10 mates in the pub or the couple of hundred votes on the Twitter polls. It’s a tiny sample size of the 25-30k attending blades.

The polls on the forum seem to be about 50:50 but a small sample size. The one on Twitter recently was 70/30 in favour of him staying.

From my experience without generalising too much it seems like a lot of the 50+ demographic are majority in favour of keeping him whereas the <50 are leaning towards twist.

Either way, I think it’s closer to 50/50 than 90/10. It just thankfully isn’t turning nasty.

 

[Dkc]

No, because they don't feel that strongly about it, to boxally demand he goes.
I think we need a new direction, along with a DoF. At the same time, I'd probably go with him staying on next season, to give him a real opportunity to do his own thing. Then make a decision.
There might be a 50/50 split, but only a 10/10 split of those who feel massively strongly about either option.

There's plenty of chants still singing his praises. Zero chants wanting him out.

 

[ben1987]

No, because they don't feel that strongly about it, to boxally demand he goes.
I think we need a new direction, along with a DoF. At the same time, I'd probably go with him staying on next season, to give him a real opportunity to do his own thing. Then make a decision.
There might be a 50/50 split, but only a 10/10 split of those who feel massively strongly about either option.

Exactly.

Im in favour of change, as are the 6 lads I have season tickets with.

We also recognise that wilder gave us our most enjoyable spell following United. We don’t chant Chrissy wilder and Alan knill but we also don’t chant wilder out.

I’ve got a wilder signed shirt hung in my study along with the rest of the 100 point league one squad I got for my 30th. I’ll always remember that, but it doesn’t mean I can’t be in favour of a change and need to chant wilder out every game.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

There's plenty of chants still singing his praises. Zero chants wanting him out.

Yes. I sing it too. And people round me do. But some of those also say he's garbage and needs to go, and I think what I think.
With CoH lack of experience and knowledge, and the Selles disaster, I don't think there'll be a change between now and next season anyway. And that's maybe the best option for now.
Either way the notion of huge groups of CW lovers and haters is a social media falacy.

 

[Dkc]

You probably drink with mates that are of a similar mind set to yourself. Hence being mates as you share things in common.

Everyone views things in pretty small sample sizes. Your 10 mates in the pub or the couple of hundred votes on the Twitter polls. It’s a tiny sample size of the 25-30k attending blades.

The polls on the forum seem to be about 50:50 but a small sample size. The one on Twitter recently was 70/30 in favour of him staying.

From my experience without generalising too much it seems like a lot of the 50+ demographic are majority in favour of keeping him whereas the <50 are leaning towards twist.

Either way, I think it’s closer to 50/50 than 90/10. It just thankfully isn’t turning nasty.

If those wanting him out could come up with a logical alternative I'd be willing to listen. But there is zero logic in sacking him nine months into his contract and having a punt on someone new. Not least due to the high cost. He'll be out of contract next summer, and we can just not renew it if we don't want to.

If we did sack him I imagine that it would turn very nasty indeed.

But it's a pointless debate as he is going nowhere.

 

[Dkc]

Exactly.

Im in favour of change, as are the 6 lads I have season tickets with.

We also recognise that wilder gave us our most enjoyable spell following United. We don’t chant Chrissy wilder and Alan knill but we also don’t chant wilder out.

I’ve got a wilder signed shirt hung in my study along with the rest of the 100 point league one squad I got for my 30th. I’ll always remember that, but it doesn’t mean I can’t be in favour of a change and need to chant wilder out every game.

So how would you make up the shortfall after paying off Wilder and his team? Which new manager would you bring in who we could afford and would probably do better than Wilder?

It's easy to say "I'm in favour of a change". But it's just meaningless guff unless you say what you think we should do after sacking Wilder.

 

[raul]

It is indeed a pointless debate. Nearly all Managers get sacked at some point and never for doing really well.

 

[Dkc]

It is indeed a pointless debate. Nearly all Managers get sacked at some point and never for doing really well.

Wilder a year ago?

 

[Keen Blade]

I rest my case.

Thank goodness for that

 

[Roygbiv]

The vast majority are in the middle I would say. Don't trust the board to get anybody better but don't trust Wilder to get it right either. There's definitely more people doubting him than ever before though and a bad start will see things get toxic very quickly.

 

[ben1987]

So how would you make up the shortfall after paying off Wilder and his team? Which new manager would you bring in who we could afford and would probably do better than Wilder?

It's easy to say "I'm in favour of a change". But it's just meaningless guff unless you say what you think we should do after sacking Wilder.

Well as I am not privy to the details of Wilders contract or the financials of any of the alternatives nor a paid professional looking to recruit a championship manager how would I know how I would plug the gap or recruit someone we can afford because I don’t know what the cost would be or who we could afford. Neither do you know who we couldn’t afford. Neither of us know what our budget is.

It’s been done to death and I am not going to or even trying to convince you he’s not the best man for the job. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I respect that. you’re not going to convince me he is the best man for the job either.

I was just trying, badly to make the point that there is way too much generalisation going on during the discussions around the manager. You made a statement that 90% of the fan base are in favour of keeping wilder. It was that statement that I was disagreeing with, not necessarily your opinion on him. Your sample size is too small and you are drinking with likeminded individuals so you cannot possibly know. I’d say more people are on the fence than anything.

I don’t think he’ll leave this summer. I’ve said all along I don’t think he’ll leave. I’m concerned about his recruitment, tactics, football, the results etc etc but I’m also well aware that there is probably too much in need of change to achieve it all in one go. I just don’t think he’s done anything that another manager out of the generic championship manager merry go round wouldn’t have done considering the players and budget at his disposal.

 

[ben1987]

The vast majority are in the middle I would say. Don't trust the board to get anybody better but don't trust Wilder to get it right either. There's definitely more people doubting him than ever before though and a bad start will see things get toxic very quickly.

Sums it up better than I could in far more words

It could be a long time til they get anything right.

 

[Balham]

Wilder a year ago?

Not really, he fell short of the targets set for him by his managers.

 

[Roygbiv]

Sums it up better than I could in far more words

I personally think he's done enough to get the summer but I'm extremely concerned with what we've seen lately and his transfer record in recent years.

I think the main issue going forward is how much emotion he sparks in people. People defend and attack him much more passionately than if we had any other manager due to everything that has gone before. The amount of unwavering support he gets pushes the people who think he's past his best into more extreme views. Then their views in turn push the people who love him into an even more stubborn position.

I don't think it's healthy having a manager who has this much of a hold on so many fans and I don't think we'll ever be truly together with him as boss unless he achieves something remarkable. That's unfair on him and we can't expect a promotion next season but because so many don't want him here, that's what he's going to have to do to get everybody on side. On the other hand, if he did leave then loads of the fan base would be hankering from him back for years. It's a really unhealthy situation for the club and I don't know how it ends in a satisfactory way for everybody.

 

[KMC-1889]

Not true. There's not a massive split. There's a vocal online minority who want shut of Wilder,

probably want to go and take a look of the photos of the ground for the ‘lap of appreciation’ on Saturday. You’re right that there isn’t a massive split in the fan base, just not in the direction you think it is.

The only people still defending him are on here and X.

 

[raul]

Wilder a year ago?

Go on then, let's play the exception game.

Nearly all Doncaster Rovers strikers never play for England.

 

[Lane Ender]

Well as I am not privy to the details of Wilders contract or the financials of any of the alternatives nor a paid professional looking to recruit a championship manager how would I know how I would plug the gap or recruit someone we can afford because I don’t know what the cost would be or who we could afford. Neither do you know who we couldn’t afford. Neither of us know what our budget is.

It’s been done to death and I am not going to or even trying to convince you he’s not the best man for the job. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I respect that. you’re not going to convince me he is the best man for the job either.

I was just trying, badly to make the point that there is way too much generalisation going on during the discussions around the manager. You made a statement that 90% of the fan base are in favour of keeping wilder. It was that statement that I was disagreeing with, not necessarily your opinion on him. Your sample size is too small and you are drinking with likeminded individuals so you cannot possibly know. I’d say more people are on the fence than anything.

I don’t think he’ll leave this summer. I’ve said all along I don’t think he’ll leave. I’m concerned about his recruitment, tactics, football, the results etc etc but I’m also well aware that there is probably too much in need of change to achieve it all in one go. I just don’t think he’s done anything that another manager out of the generic championship manager merry go round wouldn’t have done considering the players and budget at his disposal.

Too expensive to get rid of Wilder/Knill and the rest of his crew if the board had the money/bottle he’d have gone after the Norwich game got a new man in and built from there.
I’ll be there as normal to see things develop not hoping for him to fail that would be ridiculous but I fear the worse

 

[Lane Ender]

Go on then, let's play the exception game.

Nearly all Doncaster Rovers strikers never play for England.

Alick Jeffrey played for England U23s

 

[JT89]

No one in our pub group wants him out so it's a 100% stay.

People who spend their time in the pub want a loudmouth nobhead who thinks the team getting pissed together is a good culture for a professional football club to remain manager? Shocker.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

This, though. Fucking this.

 

[Davalon]

What's happening at present is what a few alluded to last summer and when he returned, Nick Jansky was definitely one I remember.

That is that whilst Wilder is seen as the answer by many, and any other manager doesn't massively succeed, then a sizeable proportion of the fanbase won't be able to forget him or clamour for his return/retention.

I wasn't as upset as some last summer but thought Selles was a huge gamble. Even so, I thought he at least deserved a crack at least once appointed and didn't find the constant whingeing helpful even though can now claim to be right. I also thought it probably made sense for him to come back.

I'm also happy enough for him to have the opportunity to see what can be done this summer.

The problem now though is that there have to be realistic expectations next season. We have far less money, the league may well be stronger at the top end next season, and we'll have probably had a major rebuild. Therefore, until we see what squad we have, it's maybe unfair to expect a top 6/8 challenge.

It's understandable that being so close to the club and having plenty of friends and acquaintances amongst the crowd, on top of the fantastic period we had under him previously, that lots will feel protective towards him and believe in him. Throw in our very parochial fanbase and it's clear that he will always retain a good level of support no matter what.

The issue going forward though is that you really want the majority of fans singing from the same hymn sheet and pulling in the same direction, like we did under CW from 2016-20 especially. Unless we do really well next season under him, that isn't going to happen.

I'm in the camp that I'd like to see sooner rather than later, a modernisation of the club from top to bottom to allow us the opportunity of doing something different and hopefully a bit special compared to what we have in most of our lifetimes.

The current set up has only ever brought fleeting success and usually very quickly falls apart.

I've never expected much being a Blade with my earliest memories being relegated to Division 4 but I'd also like to think that in a lifetime we could at least achieve what the likes of Swansea, Crystal Palace, Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton etc have. I don't see that happening if the limit of our ambition is for Wilder to hold the fort until Billy is ready.

 

[Tom Bott]

It looks likely he'll be here next season unless COH suddenly wake up in the next few weeks

How much money do you think COH lost (investment) with the Selles/staff/James Bord and the AI signings we are now stuck with for X years? £10-20 million?

How much more would it have cost COH if we had been relegated by the above, which is what looked likely.

The 90 points that the Prince gained or the 92 that Wilder gained last season would have seen us promoted this season.

Investments can go down as well as up. See Leicester, Luton, Pork.

 

[skegblade]

Can his contract not be terminated due to fitness issues/mutual agreement

Answer to that is in "mutual"

 

[TJ blade]

The vast majority are in the middle I would say. Don't trust the board to get anybody better but don't trust Wilder to get it right either. There's definitely more people doubting him than ever before though and a bad start will see things get toxic very quickly.

For what its worth, I think a lot of fans are bored shitless, and will just vote with there feet and stay away, so not to make it toxic.

 

[Dkc]

Not really, he fell short of the targets set for him by his managers.

Would you say Southgate's Euro 24 campaign was a failure?

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Well, it certainly wouldn't be in a universe in which it is safe to assume, as a plank of an argument, that any given season "should have resulted in automatic promotion". I've never known a season in any division for any team in which that assumption can be certain from the outset.
I realise that it's your opinion, and have no problem with that, but it can't be relied upon as a 'fact' to support your argument.

Fair enough, it's just my take on the situation.

 

[Dkc]

What's happening at present is what a few alluded to last summer and when he returned, Nick Jansky was definitely one I remember.

That is that whilst Wilder is seen as the answer by many, and any other manager doesn't massively succeed, then a sizeable proportion of the fanbase won't be able to forget him or clamour for his return/retention.

I wasn't as upset as some last summer but thought Selles was a huge gamble. Even so, I thought he at least deserved a crack at least once appointed and didn't find the constant whingeing helpful even though can now claim to be right. I also thought it probably made sense for him to come back.

I'm also happy enough for him to have the opportunity to see what can be done this summer.

The problem now though is that there have to be realistic expectations next season. We have far less money, the league may well be stronger at the top end next season, and we'll have probably had a major rebuild. Therefore, until we see what squad we have, it's maybe unfair to expect a top 6/8 challenge.

It's understandable that being so close to the club and having plenty of friends and acquaintances amongst the crowd, on top of the fantastic period we had under him previously, that lots will feel protective towards him and believe in him. Throw in our very parochial fanbase and it's clear that he will always retain a good level of support no matter what.

The issue going forward though is that you really want the majority of fans singing from the same hymn sheet and pulling in the same direction, like we did under CW from 2016-20 especially. Unless we do really well next season under him, that isn't going to happen.

I'm in the camp that I'd like to see sooner rather than later, a modernisation of the club from top to bottom to allow us the opportunity of doing something different and hopefully a bit special compared to what we have in most of our lifetimes.

The current set up has only ever brought fleeting success and usually very quickly falls apart.

I've never expected much being a Blade with my earliest memories being relegated to Division 4 but I'd also like to think that in a lifetime we could at least achieve what the likes of Swansea, Crystal Palace, Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton etc have. I don't see that happening if the limit of our ambition is for Wilder to hold the fort until Billy is ready.

I was going to say that Swansea have only spent one more season in the PL than we have. Then I took a look at their other achievements . Totally forgot about their League Cup win and 3-0 victory over Valencia at the Mestella.

 

[Balham]

Would you say Southgate's Euro 24 campaign was a failure?

Depends whether he was expected to win it by those above him in the FA.

Wilder was expected to - and will have expected to himself - win promotion last season. He failed to do so twice and there was a small but not insignificant groundswell of dissatisfaction with the style of play and the ability of the players to get into ridiculous scraps on the pitch. All of that will have been taken into account in the decision to relieve Wilder of his duties.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but for all their business acument, Helmy Eltoukhy and Steven Rosen know nothing about (English) professional football. The first thing they should have done after the takeover was to install an expert to work either above or alongside Stephen Bettis. That would have given them some insight and helped the board firstly reach the right conclusion - that Wilder was out of ideas - and secondly come up with the right appointment - which they categorically did not. As it is, it seems that the owners are being solely advised by Bettis, a man who owes his job to Chris Wilder. Funnily enough, Wilder is not seen as the only man for the job.

 

[Roygbiv]

For what its worth, I think a lot of fans are bored shitless, and will just vote with there feet and stay away, so not to make it toxic.

Yeah I think that's more likely to be honest. Problem is once people stop going, it's hard to get them back. It might be a case of people saying they're not going with Wilder in charge but it's hard to get back into the routine once you're out of it