Why can't we attract good players?

[blader]

This is a deadly serious question, which has played on my mind for a long time now.
1. When we were in the championship, I assumed it was money.
2. Then we got to the premier league, and I assumed it was warnock.
3. Then we went down and had to start selling
4. Now we're in league 1, no warnock, higher attendances by far compared to the other sides, not short of money (princes money or not, we're still the richest in the division bar wolves and maybe peterborough) and yet we find ourself failing to sign anyone decent and rivals such as Rotherham, Bradford, Brentford et al signing the players we want. Even pre-season regardless of league position.

Seriously can anyone provide an answer? It's baffling to me!

 

[shorehamview]

Is it because we're in the third division and all the good players want to play a bit higher up? We are having to sort the wheat from the chaff, and we're doing it with one eye closed.

 

[itsinyerblood]

This is a deadly serious question, which has played on my mind for a long time now.
1. When we were in the championship, I assumed it was money.
2. Then we got to the premier league, and I assumed it was warnock.
3. Then we went down and had to start selling
4. Now we're in league 1, no warnock, higher attendances by far compared to the other sides, not short of money (princes money or not, we're still the richest in the division bar wolves and maybe peterborough) and yet we find ourself failing to sign anyone decent and rivals such as Rotherham, Bradford, Brentford et al signing the players we want. Even pre-season regardless of league position.

Seriously can anyone provide an answer? It's baffling to me!

Good posts both blader and shorehamview. Certainly being at the foot of Division 1 can't help our cause. Presumably (and this is me assuming we're still in this division) a fresh season, new start etc might be the thing that swings signings in our favour.

blader, good set of questions mate. For what it's worth, I think that the lack of resolve from the then owner of this club failed to add the necessary quality we needed. Maybe Warnock was a reason why attracting players of quality didn't happen, but I think that all you have to do is look at the guy who owns the club to understand why things have gone consistently wrong. You really do need to speculate when you're in the Prem, look at Crystal Palace, it's not so much how many players they've brought in, but who? The quality just isn't there. Also, you need a first class global, or at least European, scouting system, not a bunch of guys who look inwardly to assess who's available. There again, this costs, and if those with the purse-strings aren't willing to invest then we shouldn't be surprised if failure follows. UTB

 

[blader]

Is it because we're in the third division and all the good players want to play a bit higher up? We are having to sort the wheat from the chaff, and we're doing it with one eye closed.

Bur my overriding point is that this has been the case for years. The year the pigs went up, they sign Antonio and Marshall, we get o'halloran. Even now, gillingham., Oldham, Bristol city are all signing plenty of players and decent players. But we arent. Why??

 

[Kentblade]

This is a deadly serious question, which has played on my mind for a long time now.
1. When we were in the championship, I assumed it was money.
2. Then we got to the premier league, and I assumed it was warnock.
3. Then we went down and had to start selling
4. Now we're in league 1, no warnock, higher attendances by far compared to the other sides, not short of money (princes money or not, we're still the richest in the division bar wolves and maybe peterborough) and yet we find ourself failing to sign anyone decent and rivals such as Rotherham, Bradford, Brentford et al signing the players we want. Even pre-season regardless of league position.

Seriously can anyone provide an answer? It's baffling to me!

Interesting as I was just thinking the same after reading we are battling Peterborough for another Scottish player costing £400,000.
At this rate we shall be in a lower division, Clough or no Clough if we do not bring in some players.
There is not time to wait for the summer.
Have we money to spend or not?
UTB

 

[dingledog]

Part of the problem is the different perception of the Blades between fans and potential players.

To us fans they are the best team in the world and it would be an honour to play for us.

For potential players it's a club that goes through managers faster than you can shake a fist at. Our recent history is one if decline, we have a reputation for style if play, we simply aren't a good career move.

As fans we also don't know what terms are being offered, are they competitive, for instance.

Overall it's a bit if a supertanker to turn around. On a positive though we stick with them.

 

[Houso]

Of course we can attract good players.

In recent memory we attracted players such as Beattie, Speed, Ehiogu and Cahill to play in the second tier of English football. Cash played a massive part, but they still didn't turn us down point blank based on our name alone.

The fact is that we've been beset by poor judgement and some poor luck. The pigs got Antonio and Marshall; so what. They' signed on loan in this league and how many of us had heard of them before they signed? It was hardly the same as signing Neymar and Messi.

Meanwhile, we've signed players such as McMahon, Murphy and McGinn in the last couple of seasons. All players who came with massive reputations; none of whom have gone on to set the league alight. We were excited by all three and congratulating ourselves on being able to sign such players who had previously courted clubs' attentions in leagues above us. Now that's forgotten. And that's not to mention players with big reputations signed this season like Baxter and Cuvelier.

Let's see who we sign this transfer window before we wet ourselves in panic eh?

 

[blader]

Of course we can attract good players.

In recent memory we attracted players such as Beattie, Speed, Ehiogu and Cahill to play in the second tier of English football. Cash played a massive part, but they still didn't turn us down point blank based on our name alone.

The fact is that we've been beset by poor judgement and some poor luck. The pigs got Antonio and Marshall; so what. They' signed on loan in this league and how many of us had heard of them before they signed? It was hardly the same as signing Neymar and Messi.

Meanwhile, we've signed players such as McMahon, Murphy and McGinn in the last couple of seasons. All players who came with massive reputations; none of whom have gone on to set the league alight. We were excited by all three and congratulating ourselves on being able to sign such players who had previously courted clubs' attentions in leagues above us. Now that's forgotten. And that's not to mention players with big reputations signed this season like Baxter and Cuvelier.

Let's see who we sign this transfer window before we wet ourselves in panic eh?

Well I'll give you Beattie (who strangely attributed him signing to Bryan Robson!) But your point about antonio and marshall cancels out Cahill, and I can't say signing a 38-year-old Gary Speed, and a 36-year-old Ehiogu really count as top class signings!

So does this mean you think it's down to the failings of our scouting system rather that the attractiveness of the club? That I can buy a little bit, doesn't tell the whole story but maybe. Still doesn't explain why Bristol could sign Emmanuel-Thomas, or Notts could get Grealish etc who are all in the same boat as us, yet we get Barn-Door Billy does it!?

 

[Zanzibar]

Of course we can attract good players.



Meanwhile, we've signed players such as McMahon, Murphy and McGinn in the last couple of seasons. All players who came with massive reputations; none of whom have gone on to set the league alight. We were excited by all three and congratulating ourselves on being able to sign such players who had previously courted clubs' attentions in leagues above us. Now that's forgotten. And that's not to mention players with big reputations signed this season like Baxter and Cuvelier.


Good players....massive reputations.....excited by all three....congratulating ourselves?

are you sure?

 

[Zanzibar]

massive reputations......excited by all three.......congratulated ourselves.
Are you sure?

That's what I wrote and failed to appear.

 

[bartman]

This is a deadly serious question, which has played on my mind for a long time now.
1. When we were in the championship, I assumed it was money.
2. Then we got to the premier league, and I assumed it was warnock.
3. Then we went down and had to start selling
4. Now we're in league 1, no warnock, higher attendances by far compared to the other sides, not short of money (princes money or not, we're still the richest in the division bar wolves and maybe peterborough) and yet we find ourself failing to sign anyone decent and rivals such as Rotherham, Bradford, Brentford et al signing the players we want. Even pre-season regardless of league position.

Seriously can anyone provide an answer? It's baffling to me!

1. We got plenty of good players in the Championship- Brown,Nuddy,MsCall,Shipperley,Ifill,Webber,Kabba,Beattie,Naysmith etc etd
2. Warnock wasted money in the Championship and Premiership - Akinbyi, Horsefield, Fathi, Shelton etc
3.If you get relegated, more often than not you have to sell. However we gambled the first year down from the premier league and Robson fucked it up (Poor decision from Robinson/McCabe)
4.How do you know that the other teams have signed players that we want ? Weir was give plenty of support in the close season. The problem appears to be how we are choosing our managers.

Bur my overriding point is that this has been the case for years. The year the pigs went up, they sign Antonio and Marshall, we get o'halloran. Even now, gillingham., Oldham, Bristol city are all signing plenty of players and decent players. But we arent. Why??

We had a good enough (and very expensive )squad which should have been many points in ahead at the top of the table before Ched got jailed. Pigs had the two players you mentioned, we had Quinn, McD, Williamson, Creswell, Lowton etc. We did bring Hoskins in who would have been an excellent replacement for Evan but then he got injured. If Hoskins had stayed fit I am pretty sure we would have got promoted. But it shouldn't have got to that stage.

I am just trying to think who the decent players are that Bristol City, Gillingham and Oldham have signed that Clough would have wanted and to be honest,I can't think of one.

Agree worried only one player signed but hopefully the end of the JTW will see some good additions

 

[Kenilworth]

Cos we shit

 

[yuley82]

We've had decent players come and go, but who is going to want to sign for a club battling at the wrong end of the third tier (and championship t'other season). Also sheffield isn't exactly a thriving city where you'd like to move to is it, it's not Leeds Manchester Birmingham Liverpool London or other big city's is it?! Oh wait I forgot we've got the new market they could visit

 

[itsinyerblood]

Of course we can attract good players.

In recent memory we attracted players such as Beattie, Speed, Ehiogu and Cahill to play in the second tier of English football. Cash played a massive part, but they still didn't turn us down point blank based on our name alone.

The fact is that we've been beset by poor judgement and some poor luck. The pigs got Antonio and Marshall; so what. They' signed on loan in this league and how many of us had heard of them before they signed? It was hardly the same as signing Neymar and Messi.

Meanwhile, we've signed players such as McMahon, Murphy and McGinn in the last couple of seasons. All players who came with massive reputations; none of whom have gone on to set the league alight. We were excited by all three and congratulating ourselves on being able to sign such players who had previously courted clubs' attentions in leagues above us. Now that's forgotten. And that's not to mention players with big reputations signed this season like Baxter and Cuvelier.

Let's see who we sign this transfer window before we wet ourselves in panic eh?

And there was I, mildly cynical, not convinced that we might be able to attract the quality of player needed to get us out of this dire predicament. Good post Houso, considered and informed, but although I can't deny we've signed decent players, I think blader's observations have more than a grain of truth about them. We've been in a declining spiral for years, and even with the likes of the players you mentioned, we didn't exactly set the league on fire.

I know it's far too easy to approach supporting this club from a position of negativity, but hand on heart there's no smoke without fire. I don't subscribe to the mythology that because we're SUFC it entitles us to sign this or that player, but I wonder how good our scouting systems are, how extensive and far-reaching they're meant to be, and who ultimately sanctions the signing of a player? I hope with NC taking the role of manager that it's at his door the buck stops. I'm doing my best to look at things from more than that of a sanctimonious 'I told you so' position. I've read far too much of that type of thing, it's as if those type of posters genuinely get a buzz from seeing this club fall to it's knees.

So, while doing my best to retain something vaguely resembling objectivity, we're in a dire position and we need to show the necessary resolve that will put an end to this dreadful situation. UTB

 

[blader]

I am just trying to think who the decent players are that Bristol City, Gillingham and Oldham have signed that Clough would have wanted and to be honest,I can't think of one.

Well OK:

Bristol - Tyrone Barnett, Adam El-Abd, Simon Gillett
Notts C - Grealish, Kieron Freeman, Callum Ball
Tranmere - Jason Kennedy, Liam Ridehalgh
Oldham - Adam Lockwood
Crawley - Matt Tubbs

All would get in our team IMO. Plus Coventry (Skint old Coventry) have not only retained better players than we have, but have made more signings than us too. How is this? I cannot remember the last transfer window where we ended up stronger than we started

 

[yuley82]

I know it's far too easy to approach supporting this club from a position of negativity, but hand on heart there's no smoke without fire. I don't subscribe to the mythology that because we're SUFC it entitles us to sign this or that player, but I wonder how good our scouting systems are, how extensive and far-reaching they're meant to be, and who ultimately sanctions the signing of a player?

Hear hear

 

[Lane Ender]

It stands out what we need most a 20 goal a season striker and a creative midfielder/winger these are the positions that will get us out of this mess and the powers that be have got to show the colour of their money and invest now.
Ok we need a pair of full backs and a central defender but the above needs addressing now.

 

[Rossb123]

I honestly don't think that clough wants the money this season, I think the owners would back clough this month if he felt he could get us to the playoffs. Clough is well known for not spending big and prefers to push youth team players forward. We just need to be patient.... next season is the major test for Clough and his team

 

[davidpinder]

Well OK:

Bristol - Tyrone Barnett, Adam El-Abd, Simon Gillett
Notts C - Grealish, Kieron Freeman, Callum Ball
Tranmere - Jason Kennedy, Liam Ridehalgh
Oldham - Adam Lockwood
Crawley - Matt Tubbs

All would get in our team IMO. Plus Coventry (Skint old Coventry) have not only retained better players than we have, but have made more signings than us too. How is this? I cannot remember the last transfer window where we ended up stronger than we started

Because we haven't got the money everyone thinks we have thats why, do you think NC is off loading all those players for any other reason but to get the wage bill down?? We skint still simple as that. If we had loads of money to throw around we would have paid lots of contracts up and brought in good players.

Plus what Kenilworth said.

 

[Houso]

massive reputations......excited by all three.......congratulated ourselves.
Are you sure?

That's what I wrote and failed to appear.

It's so very easy to look back in hindsight and say they were shit signings.

McMahon - had been a semi regular in the league above. And if you trawl back through the posts on here and BM, the excitement was very easy to see. Even Boro supporters were saying that they wanted to keep him over Hoyte.

Murphy - had interested clubs in leagues above. I forget who but Bolton or Wigan rings a bell. Ah, yes, here it is:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2018708/Wigan-want-Motherwells-Jamie-Murphy.html
Again, many saw that article and congratulated the club.

McGinn - praised to the heavens by Watford supporters and with Shrewsbury supporters falling over themselves to say how good he was. Yet again, we were all optimistic he would prove a good signing given our failings in midfield.

And as I say, then we have players like Baxter, Cuvelier and Brandy. Not dumped by their clubs, but lost reluctantly for the most part.

Do I blame our scouting network? No, not really as from what I can gather the majority of our signings have done well at previous clubs. But then they've signed and been hampered by often poor managers and just awful form which makes them look worse than they are.

 

[bartman]

Well OK:

Bristol - Tyrone Barnett, Adam El-Abd, Simon Gillett
Notts C - Grealish, Kieron Freeman, Callum Ball
Tranmere - Jason Kennedy, Liam Ridehalgh
Oldham - Adam Lockwood
Crawley - Matt Tubbs

All would get in our team IMO. Plus Coventry (Skint old Coventry) have not only retained better players than we have, but have made more signings than us too. How is this? I cannot remember the last transfer window where we ended up stronger than we started

Must be me but I think they are squad players at best rather than 1st team players.

How many of those have you actually seen live ? I ask because I have seen quote a few of those 'live' over the last couple of seasons and none have stood out for me. But that is just on one or two games so I am assuming you have seem them more often than me.

However, as a starter is Matt Tubbs a better player than Baxter or Paynter ? the last 18 months would suggest not. Grealish potted about the pitch last week in a match where we were piss poor. His passing was poor at times and I thought Coady was better than him at the weekend(along with Maguire our only decent performers) and he drifted out of the game when the tackles started flying in. Not sure on him either

As for Coventry ? I must admit I cant work out haw they can afford their squad however are the cracks now starting to show with Clarke wanting to leave ?

You didn't mention the Gillingham signings by the way ;-)

 

[itsinyerblood]

I certainly hope the club make a statement of intent, and by that I mean a display of positive determination that will enthuse the supporters and prove that all the PR guff isn't hollow posturing. Billy Paynter might prove to have some of the qualities we need. I'd love to see Shaun Miller recapture the form he showed before his injury alongside a no-nonsense hard-nut forward, the type of pairing who don't allow a defence to rest, giving them a torrid time and allowing the midfield to exploit spaces the forward pairing would create.

Before you say it, I know, wishful thinking on my part, but isn't this what we all want? Two guys upfront who can produce the goods? Unfortunately Shaun seems some way off the mark, why I've no idea. So who we bring in next has to be the real deal. No more chancers on a last pay day, we want to see players who can step up to the plate and deliver. No trialists, no players with great reputations who simply can't deliver when called upon, we need to invest and begin rebuilding this squad to a level where the name Sheffield United actually means something once again.

Is that too much to ask? Because if it is, what on earth is the point of supporting this club?

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

All teams sign good players and bad players. Success is determined by the balance between the two and we have simply been getting it wrong for a few years. There have been opportunities to spend a nominal fee and gamble on players with potential (e.g. Grabban, Le Fondre, Wells etc etc.) that we have been linked with and we no doubt we're unprepared to spend a fee given that they were deemed unproven.

All have since scored goals, all have since moved on for larger fees. Other clubs are simply more willing to speculate and perhaps they're in a better position to do so. After they've gone elsewhere we end up scraping the barrel for either has-beens or never-beens (basically players that aren't up to it but need a club). Not brave enough and not proactive enough with scouting would be my opinion.

 

[blader]

Must be me but I think they are squad players at best rather than 1st team players.

How many of those have you actually seen live ? I ask because I have seen quote a few of those 'live' over the last couple of seasons and none have stood out for me. But that is just on one or two games so I am assuming you have seem them more often than me.

However, as a starter is Matt Tubbs a better player than Baxter or Paynter ? the last 18 months would suggest not. Grealish potted about the pitch last week in a match where we were piss poor. His passing was poor at times and I thought Coady was better than him at the weekend(along with Maguire our only decent performers) and he drifted out of the game when the tackles started flying in. Not sure on him either

As for Coventry ? I must admit I cant work out haw they can afford their squad however are the cracks now starting to show with Clarke wanting to leave ?

You didn't mention the Gillingham signings by the way ;-)

Well Matt Tubbs is a very good player at this level, and is he better than Baxter or Porter? Yes, quite comfortably in fact! Grealish I have seen twice, and make a different assessment of him from the same game it seems! I thought he ran the show against us last week. Also the fact we were 'piss poor' kind of sums up my point. We ARE piss poor! He would certainly be an improvement. Al-Abd I haven't seen, but the guys played 300 games for Brighton in L1 and Champ and is still only 29, so it can be assumed he is a decent addition.I have also seen Gillett many a time, and a player I've been wanting us to sign for a while, but obviously football is extremely subjective.

Maybe I'm being overly cynical here, but I can't remember the last signing we made where I though 'Oh that's a rayt signing, that'. But Bradford have just got McLean, Brizzle got JET etc etc, and these players don't land at our door ever. Since Beattie really. Just a bit disillusioned with our transfer policy over the last.... well since Dean and Fjortoft left on that infamous day!

PS. Couldn't really justify my point with Gillingham, they've signed some right dross!

 

[Houso]

Matt Tubbs is better than Jose Baxter? No chance.

Matt Tubbs playing in very good sides at this level - 8 goals in 55
Jose Baxter in struggling sides at this level - 19 in 60

The former is an out and our striker, the latter is more of a drifting attacker midfielder. Sorry, it's not even close.

 

[sheffielder]

Matt Tubbs is better than Jose Baxter? No chance.

Matt Tubbs playing in very good sides at this level - 8 goals in 55
Jose Baxter in struggling sides at this level - 19 in 60

The former is an out and our striker, the latter is more of a drifting attacker midfielder. Sorry, it's not even close.

This the same Matt Tubbs who Rotherham sent back?

 

[Houso]

Indeed. He's never been able to make the step up...

 

[sheffielder]

Indeed. He's never been able to make the step up...

Madness, couldn't lace Jose's boots

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Nick Blackman was an excellent signing.

Selling the fucker six months later when we were within striking distance of automatic promotion was bloody stupid.

 

[broomhillblade]

Good players don't want to drop down to the 1st Division since, thanks to the salary cap, we can't pay them a fortune. That has only been the case in the past couple of years or so.