What needs to happen over January

[PeterNdlovu081]

I've heard Man City were in for Paynter but backed down when Abdullah threatened to smash Sheikh Mansour's face in.

 

[JohnDenver]

Don't you set your FFP level at the start of the year? I.e pre-HRH takeover?

Either that or NC doesn't want wholesale changes to jeopardise continuity.

NC said months ago we were only making a few loan signings at Christmas with major changes in the summer didn't he?

I'm hoping that if a player Clough really wants becomes available in January, we'll buy him. But the club clearly believe there will be better availability in Summer, as well as more opportunity to off-load. I suspect they're also aware of what we did under Micky Adams in that JTW, which failed in a thousand different ways.

After a result like Saturday's people will fret about our situation. I am too. But I'm pretty confident we can stay up with a few good loanees, and given Phipps says relegation would cost £20m and is unthinkable, I guess the club are pretty confident too.

It's distresses me from the point of view that I've spent £400 on a season ticket, and the club's biggest ambition is survival, but then the damage was done under Weir. If HRH was demanding promotion from the position Weir left us in, I'd be worried that he's another Vincent Tan style lunatic.

 

[sheffielder]

I'm hoping that if a player Clough really wants becomes available in January, we'll buy him. But the club clearly believe there will be better availability in Summer, as well as more opportunity to off-load. I suspect they're also aware of what we did under Micky Adams in that JTW, which failed in a thousand different ways.

After a result like Saturday's people will fret about our situation. I am too. But I'm pretty confident we can stay up with a few good loanees, and given Phipps says relegation would cost £20m and is unthinkable, I guess the club are pretty confident too.

It's distresses me from the point of view that I've spent £400 on a season ticket, and the club's biggest ambition is survival, but then the damage was done under Weir. If HRH was demanding promotion from the position Weir left us in, I'd be worried that he's another Vincent Tan style lunatic.

What fucks me off is that as our aim was at least play offs this season when we had Weir who was new to the game, yet with a better, more experienced manager most seem to be more forgiving of shit performances than they were under Weir. We use the same 13/14 players every week and the people our Nige hasn't given a chance to are being given the boot while the favourites continue to under perform. Our team is better than this and I don't understand why we don't expect and demand more.

 

[JohnDenver]

Our team is better than this and I don't understand why we don't expect and demand more.

I've seen no evidence they're much better than the league suggests. Looking at their wage slips will suggest they should be, but looking at them on the pitch for the last four months says they're just bobbins. I'd also suggest performances under Clough are an order of magnitude better than under Weir.

I expect and demand that we'll stay up. Next season that we challenge for promotion.

 

[alcoblade]

Our team is better than this and I don't understand why we don't expect and demand more.

Because the team isn't better than this?

It's wank, simple as that.

UTB

 

[Small Mendonca]

Because the team isn't better than this?

It's wank, simple as that.

UTB

I agree, the team is terrible but our defence haven't been great lately, isn't this the same defence that was one of the best defences in the league last season?

 

[raul]

I'm hoping that if a player Clough really wants becomes available in January, we'll buy him. But the club clearly believe there will be better availability in Summer, as well as more opportunity to off-load. I suspect they're also aware of what we did under Micky Adams in that JTW, which failed in a thousand different ways.

After a result like Saturday's people will fret about our situation. I am too. But I'm pretty confident we can stay up with a few good loanees, and given Phipps says relegation would cost £20m and is unthinkable, I guess the club are pretty confident too.

It's distresses me from the point of view that I've spent £400 on a season ticket, and the club's biggest ambition is survival, but then the damage was done under Weir. If HRH was demanding promotion from the position Weir left us in, I'd be worried that he's another Vincent Tan style lunatic.

Phipps is talking bollocks surely? We get about 1s 6d from TV money and our income doesnt come close to £20m now, so unless they are paying us to watch next year, I don't see how this stacks up. Happy to be proven wrong, but at first glance it's a McCabe-esque figure plucked from thin air.

Unless, of course, there's a nice escape clause allowing HRH and Co to walk away........

 

[Revolution]

I am struck by the similar situation the club found itself in when Mike McDonald took over and Kendall was appointed.

We had a poor squad then, and of course no chance of promotion, but enough money was put in to ensure the side was easily good enough to avoid relegation.

This time? We'd rather cross our fingers, it seems, ignore the evidence of the last half season, and hope that the current shower start to get their act together.

Penny wise, pound foolish.

And spare me re FFP. If reports were to be believed United were miles below the threshold at the start of the season, even after allowing Weir to buy Baxter and a dozen poor/mediocre players. Plus there are ways around that if you want to find them.

 

[JohnDenver]

Phipps is talking bollocks surely? We get about 1s 6d from TV money and our income doesnt come close to £20m now, so unless they are paying us to watch next year, I don't see how this stacks up. Happy to be proven wrong, but at first glance it's a McCabe-esque figure plucked from thin air.

Unless, of course, there's a nice escape clause allowing HRH and Co to walk away........

I'm sure it's an unscientific figure. Probably based on a two year delay to the masterplan of getting into the Championship (I'm assuming the plan says we get there next season).

Whether they would bail upon relegation is something I'd rather not find out.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

What needs to happen over January?

Offload the players who aren’t in Clough’s plans at all like King, Taylor, Bunn, Lappin, Williams and Brandy (Tick).
Send the young, unused bench-warmers like Cuvelier and McGinty out on loan to get games and experience elsewhere (Tick)
Sign four or five new players of Clough’s own choosing to come straight into the first team squad. (Work in Progress)
Drop regular first teamers like Porter, Flynn, Hill and McMahon to the bench thus improving the squad overall. (Pending)

Ideally, the players we sign will be either permanent signings or loans with a view to becoming permanent next season.
Clough has already indicated that this will be the case where possible.
In the case of Paynter, he’s out of contract next season, so if he’s successful we can sign him on permanently and if he’s not we can look elsewhere.
I fully expect to see more signings of this type in the next fortnight.
It's not Clough's fault that Weir was allowed to sign 13 players, most of whom aren't good enough.

 

[BerksBlade]

First off, some of our players need to take long, hard look at themselves and compare their performance against Villa with Walsall & Notts Co. No "tiredness" excuses please. Surely a professional athlete can do his job twice in 7 days? If not then maybe consider another career. Some of them seem to be coasting along thinking "this club is too big to go down - we'll be OK". Time for a reality check - if we don't shape up that's exactly what will happen.

Second, we need to use some of our "game-changing" money to get a couple of players who can do exactly that: change games - in our favour. I thought Baxter might be one, but it's not working out that way. Might not come cheap, but the endless stream of journeymen needs to stop. Quality, not quantity.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Funny that Clough doesn't seem to rate any of Weir's signings. Since he seems to have cleared the decks (McGinty, Williams, Cuvelier, Brandy and King have all gone) we should at the very least have room for three decent loan players.

Quite simply, we need a left back, an additional wide player and a striker. The most important part being that they have to be decent and not over the hill.

 

[Bergen Blade]

First off, some of our players need to take long, hard look at themselves and compare their performance against Villa with Walsall & Notts Co. No "tiredness" excuses please. Surely a professional athlete can do his job twice in 7 days?

I also found it amazing to hear that Murphy apparantly was too tired to start against Notts County a full week after his last match.

 

[Foxy]

Seen a few people mention FFP, so here's what the SCMP (which we actually fall under being in League One) actually means to us:

In 2013/2014 we can spend, up to a maximum of 60% of turnover on wages. The turnover figure used as a base for this was a realistic estimation at the start of the season - before pre-season began as well as a projection for half way through the season (must be evidence based data from audited accounts and be justified), followed by monthly statements and projections.

Sanctions for overspending are generally a transfer embargo, and punishments are given based upon the monthly reviews and are to be imposed as soon as the club is about to exceed it's limits.

The idea of the embargo, is also to encourage clubs to be open with their fans and inform them when a ban is in place (which hasn't always happened in the past).

The embargo/ban will remain in place until the club either move under the threshold, or if the budget changes accordingly (e.g. an increase in commercial revenues or player sales).

One potential area for loophole would be equity injections and donations, so if for example a soft loan on behalf of a director was converted to a donation (absolutely no repayment required at any point).

'Home Grown' players currently aren't included in the calculations, though I've read mixed definitions as to how they are classified and how long they are exempt from the calculations, will seek to clarify. Essentially though, they have to have been registered at the club (or a club in England and Wales) for three years prior to their 21st birthday.

Included in the calculations are all other players, with details on their contract start and end date, salary, signing on fee, forecasted appearance fees, associated bonus payments and any relocation fees they receive. Also included are loan players and non-contract players.

In the 2013 accounts, turnover was shown at £8.9m (A reduction of £1.4m year on year).

 

[Darren]

Seen a few people mention FFP, so here's what the SCMP (which we actually fall under being in League One) actually means to us:

In 2013/2014 we can spend, up to a maximum of 60% of turnover on wages. The turnover figure used as a base for this was a realistic estimation at the start of the season - before pre-season began as well as a projection for half way through the season (must be evidence based data from audited accounts and be justified), followed by monthly statements and projections.

Sanctions for overspending are generally a transfer embargo, and punishments are given based upon the monthly reviews and are to be imposed as soon as the club is about to exceed it's limits.

The idea of the embargo, is also to encourage clubs to be open with their fans and inform them when a ban is in place (which hasn't always happened in the past).

The embargo/ban will remain in place until the club either move under the threshold, or if the budget changes accordingly (e.g. an increase in commercial revenues or player sales).

One potential area for loophole would be equity injections and donations, so if for example a soft loan on behalf of a director was converted to a donation (absolutely no repayment required at any point).

'Home Grown' players currently aren't included in the calculations, though I've read mixed definitions as to how they are classified and how long they are exempt from the calculations, will seek to clarify. Essentially though, they have to have been registered at the club (or a club in England and Wales) for three years prior to their 21st birthday.

Included in the calculations are all other players, with details on their contract start and end date, salary, signing on fee, forecasted appearance fees, associated bonus payments and any relocation fees they receive. Also included are loan players and non-contract players.

In the 2013 accounts, turnover was shown at £8.9m (A reduction of £1.4m year on year).

If we take the 2013 figure then that means we can spend £5.34M on wages and that Long, Maguire, McFadzean, Ironside, Whitehouse, Kennedy, de Girolamo and all other players wwho came via the academy would not be included in that figure

If we then generously say we need another 20 players on top of those that means we can are allowed to pay an average wage of £267,000 per year = £5135 per week - which is about three times the average third division wage.

It follows that the Fair Play rules should be no barrier to our having the the pick of the best third division players going (only Wolves would be able to compete with us). If they are a barrier that must only be (pace Alco) that we are paying comparatively huge wages to rubbish players.

 

[Junior Soduko]

These huge wages though are going to who? Doyle and Collins, seem to be the only players left on the 'legacy' contracts, and i struggle to think of anyone else who would be being paid greater than £5,000 a week.

Given that at the start of this season we were told that the club needed to trim the wage bill, i refuse to believe that any of the signings made by David Weir are on a wage greater than £5,000.