VAR VAR

[S40BLADE]

It's a fix and Riley's PGMOL company that was apparently responsible for the development and implementation of VAR in this country is shady as fuck. Telling officials to lie in match reports etc. While generating 20m quid yearly through the technical "self-employment" of referees and sponsorships. Easy for some isn't it.

 

[Mumbo]

I actually think the goal may also be down to VAR. He puts the whistle to his mouth but then sees city are through. He probably did this as they are expected to let play finish before blowing and let VAR sort it if needed. However in this case it wasn't the job of VAR to overrule the ref. I think he made the mistake of thinking VAR would sort it for him.

I think that’s a mistake we all made before a ball was kicked.Attending fans who are the very heartbeat of football are now treated with utter contempt.Give offside decisions back to the ref and the linesmen.The name should be changed to the ‘The laughing stockly’.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Would it make any difference if a manager / coach ordered his team off the pitch and forfeited the match to get something done ? UTB

The clubs voted for VAR. The Premier League rules & regs are all voted on by the clubs. If a manager/coach doesn't want VAR, all he has to do is persuade his Chairman to table the vote & vote against VAR at the end of the season. Come at me with your WhatAboutEry.....

 

[Brian Deane]

The clubs voted for VAR. The Premier League rules & regs are all voted on by the clubs. If a manager/coach doesn't want VAR, all he has to do is persuade his Chairman to table the vote & vote against VAR at the end of the season. Come at me with your WhatAboutEry.....

 

[Muttley]

The clubs voted for VAR. The Premier League rules & regs are all voted on by the clubs. If a manager/coach doesn't want VAR, all he has to do is persuade his Chairman to table the vote & vote against VAR at the end of the season. Come at me with your WhatAboutEry.....

How about they all vote it off again then.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

How about they all vote it off again then.

Yep. I'd be happy with that. They won't of course, because The Big Prinz & all the other Chairmen are making too much money from TV rights.

 

[Cheesebored]

Yep. I'd be happy with that. They won't of course, because The Big Prinz & all the other Chairmen are making too much money from TV rights.

Honest question. How does the implementation of VAR impact on the windfall of Premier league money to clubs. If all chairmen voted against it next year why would the associated tv monies decrease? If you've already covered this elsewhere then apologies in advance.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Honest question. How does the implementation of VAR impact on the windfall of Premier league money to clubs. If all chairmen voted against it next year why would the associated tv monies decrease? If you've already covered this elsewhere then apologies in advance.

Mate. It's just my jaundiced opinion. No one should EVER be swayed by the shit I come out with. But.....

PL Clubs make a LOT of money from TV rights. Far, far more than "through the turnstile" revenue. All TV shows (Dr Who, Strictly Come Dancing, Fleabag, The Premier League) need hype, controversy, plot twists, new characters, reveals to keep people watching & paying their subscriptions. VAR is a SUPERB plot twist for Premier League on the TV. New Baddies, more column inches, "watch at 10pm, you won't fucking believe what's happened now". All that keeps the "TV product" fresh & current. If The Big Prinz consults any Media Specialist, he'll surely be told that to keep the product turning over, in order to maintain & improve revenue, he needs to KEEP VOTING FOR VAR. Controversy Sells....

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

 

[Varkanoid]

VAR reminds me of BREXIT the PL clubs voted for it without seeing it being implemented properly.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

What they are trying to do is this:


But from a completely different height and angle!

And if you add into the equation the scaling down of the image to reality, the tolerance on the margin they are scanning is ridiculous! The line could be 10cm or more!
The technology is blatantly not good enough for the margins they are trying to work to and the margins are far too tight to make a correct decision!

 

[BettingBlade]

Not a clue what the accuracy is but I posted I'd accept 95% if it's the best available.

Linesmen did not flag for toe-nails. There have been 27 such decisions this season. They would have missed all those.

Before you say it, I agree, the rule needs changing, not a lot but enough to restore confidence in the system. I was saying that after incident 1 in August.

The technology still can not determine if those 27 are offside man. My god man, what part of it do you not understand?

So basically what you’re saying is you’re happy for the VAR ref to just guess their way through games because linesmen would miss it with the naked eye, even though they may not have missed it because there’s a chance he may have been onside?

There’s no way anyone can defend the way they are using VAR for offsides.

 

[Gulpy]

What they are trying to do is this:
View attachment 67545
View attachment 67546
But from a completely different height and angle!
View attachment 67547
And if you add into the equation the scaling down of the image to reality, the tolerance on the margin they are scanning is ridiculous! The line could be 10cm or more!
The technology is blatantly not good enough for the margins they are trying to work to and the margins are far too tight to make a correct decision!

To analogise, they are trying to measure nanometres with a bog standard ruler. Even if they did have the angles and the technological ability to be precise enough to tell whether toe nails are offside or not, it doesn't remove the fact that it flies in the face of all common sense and reason to do so.

 

[PokerBlade]

The technology still can not determine if those 27 are offside man. My god man, what part of it do you not understand?

So basically what you’re saying is you’re happy for the VAR ref to just guess their way through games because linesmen would miss it with the naked eye, even though they may not have missed it because there’s a chance he may have been onside?

There’s no way anyone can defend the way they are using VAR for offsides.

And you have to remember that now the linesmen are purposely keeping their flag down even when they think it's offside that a lot of these decisions the VAR has supposedly got right would've been given far quicker.

 

[Sheffsteel]

JUST HEARD AN EXPLANATION OF VAR FROM AN ACTUAL EXPERT.

Listening to Talksport and there’s a journalist/ expert on who‘s nailed it.

He explained that the 1998 World Cup was seen as boring by FIFA and they wanted to introduce measures to improve football as a spectacle.
So 3 big rule changes were introduced which were
1: Tackle from behind was banned
2: Pass back to the goalie was stopped and
3: Offisde rules were changed so that level was now classed as onside (leading to more goals)

The expert said the technology is so accurate that decisions that look level to the human eye can now be classed as offside.
He said that technology has basically got rid of the “if you are level then you are on side“ rule.,.. in the past if you looked level to the human eye then the benefit was given to the attacker but he said the technolgy is so accurate that it can measure millimetres.

The presenter said that the technolgy can’t be accurate because the cameras aren’t even positioned at the correct angle.
The expert disagreed saying that VAR uses the latest 3D modelling and is totally accurate even down to millimetres.

His conclusion was that VAR is defnately here to stay but said there will be tweaks for next season.
He suggested an improvement for offside is to ignore the bodyparts that are offside and change it so that if a body part is on side then it’s on side.
He said there would still be controversies because VAR is still measuring millimetres but he said at least there would be more goals being scored.

 

[finlaytheblade]

What they are trying to do is this:
View attachment 67545
View attachment 67546
But from a completely different height and angle!
View attachment 67547
And if you add into the equation the scaling down of the image to reality, the tolerance on the margin they are scanning is ridiculous! The line could be 10cm or more!
The technology is blatantly not good enough for the margins they are trying to work to and the margins are far too tight to make a correct decision!

It has to change for next season or fans will vote with there feet.football is not football without fans at games.

 

[Bladesman]

Had high hopes for VAR.

Not any more !!

UTB

Same here, then we realised we had the same muppets that were making mistakes on the field now in the VAR room.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Martin Keown came up with a statistic that 27 goals had been disallowed by VAR this season for offside. That's in 210 games and not all of those have been controversial. That's 0.13 incidents per game and a percentage have been controversial, let's say 50%, so that would be 0.065 controversial per game.

That's got some perspective into the matter.

Thing is all the decisions were offside according to the technology. If there was full trust and faith in it there would be few dissenters.

Let's say the technology is as low as 95% accurate so 5% errors on 0.065 incidents per game would be 0.003 wrong decisions per game.

For all those making all the fuss about giving up the game etc.etc. get some perspective maybe. Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.

My maths is not the best so please check the methodology by all means.

If there is still concern then by all means move the line a bit to provide a margin until technology improves as it surely will, this is 2019, nearly 2020 after all.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I've learned an awful amount from following this thread. Thanks to all involved. I'll be honest. I've got a Maths & Modelling background. My style is basically "forensic". I was/am happy with the Lino shoving the flag up if they think it's offside. But, I also recognise that Video Technology can help. Because I trust the Mathematicians who have designed the Hawkeye system. And, I'm comfortable they haven't deliberately stuck a bias in the system. I was/am also happy to let Hawkeye rule on offsides. I get both sides of the argument. I get it inflames passions. I get it results in people telling me to get fucked on this forum. But, what am I supposed to fucking do, lie? I'm OK with Hawkeye for offsides. I don't think those who prefer Lino Flag are idiots, or horseshitters. And, I have no desire to see them get fucked.

So, forensically, is anyone prepared to explain why & how the lines drawn on a single frame are inaccurate? I know the choice of frame is vitally important. Put that to one side. I know the ball & player will be in a different position if you take the earlier frame, or the later frame. I know you might not like "the armpit rule". I fucking know all that. I know you're the World's best celebrator & limbs an' all that. One frame. Multi camera angles to calibrate the 3D space. Drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker. Drop a virtual plumb line from the defender. Draw the virtual lines. A > B offside.

 

[pommpey]

What they are trying to do is this:
View attachment 67545
View attachment 67546
But from a completely different height and angle!
View attachment 67547
And if you add into the equation the scaling down of the image to reality, the tolerance on the margin they are scanning is ridiculous! The line could be 10cm or more!
The technology is blatantly not good enough for the margins they are trying to work to and the margins are far too tight to make a correct decision!

And also, where is Fleck's foot in relation to the ball and Mousset? Has he struck it? Has it left his foot?

Fucking bullshit, is what it is.

pommpey

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Souness Law will come in at the end of the season latest and common sense will prevail. Even Dermot Gallagher agrees who shared sympathy with us for Moose's disallowed goal. So if refs, players, managers, fans and pundits aren't happy there must be a change.

VAR is the correct way to go, the way it's currently used on offside decisions is not.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

I've learned an awful amount from following this thread. Thanks to all involved. I'll be honest. I've got a Maths & Modelling background. My style is basically "forensic". I was/am happy with the Lino shoving the flag up if they think it's offside. But, I also recognise that Video Technology can help. Because I trust the Mathematicians who have designed the Hawkeye system. And, I'm comfortable they haven't deliberately stuck a bias in the system. I was/am also happy to let Hawkeye rule on offsides. I get both sides of the argument. I get it inflames passions. I get it results in people telling me to get fucked on this forum. But, what am I supposed to fucking do, lie? I'm OK with Hawkeye for offsides. I don't think those who prefer Lino Flag are idiots, or horseshitters. And, I have no desire to see them get fucked.

So, forensically, is anyone prepared to explain why & how the lines drawn on a single frame are inaccurate? I know the choice of frame is vitally important. Put that to one side. I know the ball & player will be in a different position if you take the earlier frame, or the later frame. I know you might not like "the armpit rule". I fucking know all that. I know you're the World's best celebrator & limbs an' all that. One frame. Multi camera angles to calibrate the 3D space. Drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker. Drop a virtual plumb line from the defender. Draw the virtual lines. A > B offside.

The problem is theres still human interaction.

If seen them drawing lines proving onside, then resetting and getting an offside with fresh lines...and that one is taken as the result.

Why?

 

[Carlton Blade]

Fuck VAR

 

[United Aren't Back.]

One rule for the big six. How has VAR allowed their first goal!! Blatant referee gets in the way. Can't wait to see what the MOTD pundits say

The commentator said 'its definitely the right decision.'
That after showing Mousset and defender absolutely level.
Shithouse Wright and the other faceless pricks in the studio said marginally offside and didn't even examine it..Cunts.

 

[Deadbat]

I dont get the angles that are shown - why is the camera angle skewed. Why cannot it not be straight - in line as you ask a linesman to be? That is before you discuss when the ball was actually kicked which we are never certain on in terms of when they take the frame? I am not convinced Stockley Park even has the footage Sky/BT has do they? I am not certain they have all this hi tech system that we are not privvy to and that what they show us on TV is not the same as Stockley Park - why cant they show us?

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

So basically what you’re saying is you’re happy for the VAR ref to just guess their way through games because linesmen would miss it with the naked eye, even though they may not have missed it because there’s a chance he may have been onside?

Very well put. I think that sums up the apologist position perfectly.

I know you're the World's best celebrator & limbs an' all that.

So you’re sticking with this, as a characterisation of those who object to VAR? It’s about dick-swinging, one-upmanship, braggadocio, hubris? Really? Despite the hundreds of posts and ‘shouts’ on this forum, and the many thousands of statements in the media and social media that explain very clearly why supporters have an issue with ersatz celebration being forced upon them?

Sigh.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The problem is theres still human interaction.

If seen them drawing lines proving onside, then resetting and getting an offside with fresh lines...and that one is taken as the result.

Why?

The lines are drawn by computer. But the computer draws many lines. As an example.....
The computer does not know whether the attacker's head or his knee is nearer the goal line. So, the computer will test that.
The computer will drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker's head to the pitch. And then draw a virtual line at pitch level on that (head) point. The computer will then drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker's knee to the pitch. And then draw a virtual line at pitch level on that (knee) point. The computer may also draw a few more lines to determine which is closer to the goal line. And, then.... the defender.
It's the computer drawing lines to find out the correct virtual line to draw across the pitch. I get it. I get it. I get it. Human intervention is subjective & no better than Lino Flag. But, the computer is drawing the lines. Really.....

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

The lines are drawn by computer. But the computer draws many lines. As an example.....
The computer does not know whether the attacker's head or his knee is nearer the goal line. So, the computer will test that.
The computer will drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker's head to the pitch. And then draw a virtual line at pitch level on that (head) point. The computer will then drop a virtual plumb line from the attacker's knee to the pitch. And then draw a virtual line at pitch level on that (knee) point. The computer may also draw a few more lines to determine which is closer to the goal line. And, then.... the defender.
It's the computer drawing lines to find out the correct virtual line to draw across the pitch. I get it. I get it. I get it. Human intervention is subjective & no better than Lino Flag. But, the computer is drawing the lines. Really.....

It's clearly the var operator that's clicking on areas. Only from.this point are the lines drawn.

So you're still relying on the initial click to be in the correct spot.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Very well put. I think that sums up the apologist position perfectly.




So you’re sticking with this, as a characterisation of those who object to VAR? It’s about dick-swinging, one-upmanship, braggadoci, hubris? Really? Despite the hundreds of posts and ‘shouts’ on this forum, and the many thousands of statements in the media and social media that explain very clearly why supporters have an issue with ersatz celebration being forced upon them?

Sigh.

I'm not sticking to that as a characterisation. I apologise. I hope you'll see in the rest of that post that I have no axe with Lino Flaggers. And, I'd be happy with Lino Flag myself. Sorry.

 

[bromtom]

Imagine the Aguuueeerrrroooo moment in the age of VAR. The fans all just looking up at the TV's to see if it was going to be given.

Wonder if by the end of the season there will be no cheering at all for close range goals? Sounds mental but I can't see me cheering now unless it's a 30 yarder.

Haha, I literally said the same the other day.

Honestly, it's gotten to the point that the first reaction to scoring is fear and sadness because it might get ruled out.

It's not "wheyyyyyy! Oh, wait" it's "Shit. ::Wait:: yay!".

Unless you score a 30 yard solo screamer you can never rest, an even then you're just waiting for the VAR officials to say McGoldrick was offside on another astral plane or something and rule it out.

Surely every fan is saying the same thing up and down the country, it has to change.

Has to change or there'll honestly be some really nasty scenes towards the end of the season.

One thing I've said since the beginning of this season when it became clear VAR was a farce, whoever goes down, if they're close, they're going to sue the Premier League to the tune of £100m. It's costing teams vital points, which eventually will cost teams a place in the league.

When it was human error, it was shit but you accepted it. When you install what's supposed to be an infallible failsafe and it doesn't work, it's misconduct.

Hope they've got their lawyers ready.