VAR Vote

[YES Blade]

They haven't got the technology and never will have.

Look at the Olympic Games. They have to judge who crosses the line first, on a fixed line with static cameras and two runners going in the same direction. And if their torsos cross at the same time, they call it level.

If that was an offside decision, they wouldn't call it level. They would look at toes, knees, an undefined point of the arm where handball ceases to apply. They're taking it to absurd degrees. If it was suggested that some authorities were taking the rule to ridiculous levels to prove how stupid it is, I could almost believe it.

The technology is still more accurate than a bloke running along the line with a flag in his hand.

Just because it’s not 100% accurate doesn’t mean that it should be binned off. It’s always going to be more accurate than the days before VAR.

 

[ChrisBlade]

The technology is still more accurate than a bloke running along the line with a flag in his hand.

Just because it’s not 100% accurate doesn’t mean that it should be binned off. It’s always going to be more accurate than the days before VAR.

As the debate shows, more accurate is more likely, but VAR is certainly less fun and also more controversial in other ways.

They solved a potential problem by introducing several equally burdensome and contested issues.

Football is not played to adhere to absolute, metric, mathematical justice. It is an emotive game of breaks and small margins. VAR is part of a general trend in society where common sense and generosity or a sense of you win some and you lose some is replaced by a dour sense of absolute entitlement for everybody with as little obligations or hardship as possible.

That target, though, is a divisive fallacy in all walks of life.

 

[MiserableBlader]

VAR obviously a hot topic at the moment. And following various debates online and in the workplace Im intrigued to know where the majority stand on the issue.

Straightforward poll.

*'VAR' doesn't include Hawkeye

Presumably it does not include automated offside either (although cameras may be similar) which could be introduced if only as an advisory tool.
Also full pitch ball out extensions.
Hawkeye not used everywhere as their versions do not work, even when they have been switched on. (Spain?)
Lots I like to say BUT voted YES SCRAP as their is clear bias in operation in so many areas.
What I will say is five years ago so many on twitter said - this is great - it will all be fair and I said the opposite.
I said SUFC would NEVER score (it has taken Wilder effect to prove me right) as they would spend forever looking for reasons to chalk goals out. Two classic examples re Lundstrum.
Truth is somewhere in between but totally unsatisfactory and spoils the game re enjoyment.

 

[dsr-burnley]

The technology is still more accurate than a bloke running along the line with a flag in his hand.

Just because it’s not 100% accurate doesn’t mean that it should be binned off. It’s always going to be more accurate than the days before VAR.

If you think that goals ought to be disallowed for a toenail offside, then yes, it's more accurate. If you think the law was OK as it was, then you could do it just as easily with a 5 second check of a photo.

 

[Varkanoid]

We dont care now do we for at least another season if not more

 

[YES Blade]

If you think that goals ought to be disallowed for a toenail offside, then yes, it's more accurate. If you think the law was OK as it was, then you could do it just as easily with a 5 second check of a photo.

Correct, I’ve never said VAR is perfect or that it ever will be, it just needs to be improved to a level where the majority of fans are happy with how it’s used. The example you used could be one way in which fans may be happier with it’s use.

The general view of a majority of fans seems to be to just scrap it. Why not try to improve it to a point where it can’t get any better, then decide if it’s worth keeping?

There are plenty of basic improvements which would improve the fan experience of VAR, until some of those are implemented then I’m not ready to go back to the old ways of relying solely on a referee getting one look at an incident (if he even sees it all).

 

[Melbourne Blade]

Looks like Wolves lobbying to scrap VAR will fail. No surprise. Not that it impacts us of course.

2 simple changes can be made. Firstly get rid of the ridiculous offside toe decision. Use automated by all means but extend the "line" and widen the tolerance. Secondly make decisions way quicker whether through AI or smarter VAR officials who know their arse from their elbows.

VAR: '100 more wrong decisions if VAR scrapped,' claims Premier League

There would be approximately 100 more incorrect refereeing decisions made if clubs vote to scrap video assistant referees, the Premier League claims.

www.bbc.com

 

[Tezza1889]

The speed of decision making usually depends on how popular the team is with the decision against them... lower placed teams tend to take more minutes it seems.. somebody will have solid data in a year or two*

Or if the Spurs fan operating the VAR can convince his colleagues inside 20 minutes to let him cheat so his team doesn't lose to little old sheff utd..

 

[dexter101]

Made me laugh seeing this used in an international friendly on monday... Nothing at stake, could have just let the referee do their job.

 

[Balham]

Made me laugh seeing this used in an international friendly on monday... Nothing at stake, could have just let the referee do their job.

It was used well. Konsa ragged to the floor in the area: missed by the referee, caught by the VAR, reviewed and given as a penalty.

The only surprise for me was that it wasn't Ahmedhodzic doing the shirt-pulling

 

[Working Class Hero]

Looks like Wolves lobbying to scrap VAR will fail. No surprise. Not that it impacts us of course.

2 simple changes can be made. Firstly get rid of the ridiculous offside toe decision. Use automated by all means but extend the "line" and widen the tolerance. Secondly make decisions way quicker whether through AI or smarter VAR officials who know their arse from their elbows.

VAR: '100 more wrong decisions if VAR scrapped,' claims Premier League

There would be approximately 100 more incorrect refereeing decisions made if clubs vote to scrap video assistant referees, the Premier League claims.

www.bbc.com

Drawing the lines in the first place is half of the problem though. If we do have to have VAR for offsides then for me it should only be for really obvious errors, along with the rest of the VAR involvement.

If it's blatantly obvious from a replay that someone was offside, then by all means call it, i.e. if it's something that the linesman should have spotted in real time.

If you need multiple angles, lines or even still images, then you go with the linesman's decision. A linesman never has access to these anyway, he gets to see it once, live and at full speed, so if more than that is required then it wasn't really an error in the first place was it?

This would mean far far fewer goals would get called back for offsides and those that are reviewed would take a fraction of the time. Half the goals that are ruled out at the moment would never have been questioned anyway as people have always accepted the concept of being "level with the last defender", so it's creating a problem that wasn't even there.

 

[dexter101]

It was used well. Konsa ragged to the floor in the area: missed by the referee, caught by the VAR, reviewed and given as a penalty.

The only surprise for me was that it wasn't Ahmedhodzic doing the shirt-pulling

I agree, it was effective but it just felt like overkill in a game like that. To delay for the referee to go and view the monitor to give a penalty. no one would have been upset if it hadn't been given as the game is meaningless. The whole area of shirt pulling is another area which needs clearer guidance on what is ok and what isn't. I don't mind seeing a tussle in the box but if we give a penalty every time a shirt is pulled then the game will be quite different.

 

[LBA_Blade]

As the debate shows, more accurate is more likely, but VAR is certainly less fun and also more controversial in other ways.

They solved a potential problem by introducing several equally burdensome and contested issues.

Football is not played to adhere to absolute, metric, mathematical justice. It is an emotive game of breaks and small margins. VAR is part of a general trend in society where common sense and generosity or a sense of you win some and you lose some is replaced by a dour sense of absolute entitlement for everybody with as little obligations or hardship as possible.

That target, though, is a divisive fallacy in all walks of life.

Totally get where you are coming from on this. The problem is with VAR and the Laws of football they should be an exact science, based on x parameters you are either offside or you are not, its either a goal or its not etc there shouldn't be any grey areas what so ever. If you are offside by your big toe ultimately you are offside. The implementation of how they use VAR is the problem rather than the actual use

 

[Balham]

I agree, it was effective but it just felt like overkill in a game like that. To delay for the referee to go and view the monitor to give a penalty. no one would have been upset if it hadn't been given as the game is meaningless. The whole area of shirt pulling is another area which needs clearer guidance on what is ok and what isn't. I don't mind seeing a tussle in the box but if we give a penalty every time a shirt is pulled then the game will be quite different.

Agreed. There is, as far as I can tell, no specific offence of shirt pulling so it must be covered by the contact rules under Law 12. It's probably under the holding but there's also impeding with contact and if so there's no intent necessity; every occurrence is punishable.

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

• Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
• Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

• a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• holds an opponent
• impedes an opponent with contact
• bites or spits at someone on the team lists or a match official
• throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object

 

[dexter101]

Agreed. There is, as far as I can tell, no specific offence of shirt pulling so it must be covered by the contact rules under Law 12. It's probably under the holding but there's also impeding with contact and if so there's no intent necessity; every occurrence is punishable.

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

• Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
• Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

• a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• holds an opponent
• impedes an opponent with contact
• bites or spits at someone on the team lists or a match official
• throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object

Its amazing how complicated a simple game of football becomes when looking at the written down rules.

Its like the idea of "obstruction" but taking the ball into the corner and holding off the players is allowed? seems to contradict the laws under impedes an opponent with contact?

Thanks for sharing this

 

[Balham]

Its amazing how complicated a simple game of football becomes when looking at the written down rules.

Its like the idea of "obstruction" but taking the ball into the corner and holding off the players is allowed? seems to contradict the laws under impedes an opponent with contact?

Thanks for sharing this

Taking the ball into the corner is fine as the attacker is deemed to be in possession and therefore can impede the opponent. The ball has to remain within playing distance.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It's just been announced that all the PL clubs voted against Wolves motion to end VAR.
The voting was 16 clubs for VAR and 1 club (Wolves) against VAR, apparently non of the relegated or promoted clubs were there to vote.

So VAR stays in the PL next season.

My only issue with this vote is that

VAR has been proven to be about 95% accurate, so people are rightly furious about the 5% incorrect decisions.
However before VAR, the refs were 80% accurate and people were furious about 20% of the incorrect decisions.

So surely this is an improvement/ progress.
Also even when VAR proves a decision was correct, incredibly many managers, players and fans STILL refuse to accept the decision.
So this is also about a lack of respect towards authority issue.

Regards VAR think overall it's a good thing but there need to be a self critical review
because some things should be better.....the waiting around for decisions should be much much shorter.
Makes me wonder if technology can be used in a better way, for example sensors in the ball, the boots and shirt.
Then technology instantly knows whether someone is onside or offside, so those become factual like goal line technology.

 

[Danetheblade]

I like the theory or rule change that Wenger has mentioned.

There must be daylight. Might help the clowns in the VAR shed on match days?

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/re...-attackers-huge-advantage/bltbd9aaa67f9af225e

 

[Sheffsteel]

I like the theory or rule change that Wenger has mentioned.

There must be daylight. Might help the clowns in the VAR shed on match days?

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/re...-attackers-huge-advantage/bltbd9aaa67f9af225e

but when there's only 2mm of daylight, you'll get loads of fans of the club losing out on a goal saying that 2mm is too small
and it should be clear daylight and they'll say clear day light should be defined as 5mm.

Then when someones is 6mm offside they'll say it was really 4mm and it should be on side not offside.

Basically whatever boundary is applied, especially if it's controlled by humans then loads of fans will accuse VAR of corruption.

 

[Working Class Hero]

I like the theory or rule change that Wenger has mentioned.

There must be daylight. Might help the clowns in the VAR shed on match days?

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/re...-attackers-huge-advantage/bltbd9aaa67f9af225e

Wenger is an intelligent bloke so maybe I'm missing something, but I've never understood how this would help.

• You'd still have to draw lines on a still image that can't be possibly be precise enough to determine when the ball was kicked.
• It would still come down to millimetres and so have all the same arguments that the lines are in the wrong place
• It would still take an age and slow the game down

Yes, it would mean more goals are given, because you've changed the actual rule in favour of the attacker, but it doesn't improve the VAR process one little bit. It just moves the line.

 

[Sheffsteel]

It's just been announced that all the PL clubs voted against Wolves motion to end VAR.
The voting was 16 clubs for VAR and 1 club (Wolves) against VAR, apparently non of the relegated or promoted clubs were there to vote.

So VAR stays in the PL next season.

My only issue with this vote is that

VAR has been proven to be about 95% accurate, so people are rightly furious about the 5% incorrect decisions.
However before VAR, the refs were 80% accurate and people were furious about 20% of the incorrect decisions.

So surely this is an improvement/ progress.
Also even when VAR proves a decision was correct, incredibly many managers, players and fans STILL refuse to accept the decision.
So this is also about a lack of respect towards authority issue.

Regards VAR think overall it's a good thing but there need to be a self critical review
because some things should be better.....the waiting around for decisions should be much much shorter.
Makes me wonder if technology can be used in a better way, for example sensors in the ball, the boots and shirt.
Then technology instantly knows whether someone is onside or offside, so those become factual like goal line technology.

It's now said on the radio that the vote was 19 clubs voting to keep VAR with 1 club (Wolves) wanting VAR to be scrapped next season.
So obviously Leicester, Ipswich and Southampton were included in the vote and they all wanted it to remain too.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Fans hate VAR.
Clubs vote to keep VAR.

Fuck off.

 

[SwissBlade]

It's just been announced that all the PL clubs voted against Wolves motion to end VAR.
The voting was 16 clubs for VAR and 1 club (Wolves) against VAR, apparently non of the relegated or promoted clubs were there to vote.

So VAR stays in the PL next season.

My only issue with this vote is that

VAR has been proven to be about 95% accurate, so people are rightly furious about the 5% incorrect decisions.
However before VAR, the refs were 80% accurate and people were furious about 20% of the incorrect decisions.

So surely this is an improvement/ progress.
Also even when VAR proves a decision was correct, incredibly many managers, players and fans STILL refuse to accept the decision.
So this is also about a lack of respect towards authority issue.

Regards VAR think overall it's a good thing but there need to be a self critical review
because some things should be better.....the waiting around for decisions should be much much shorter.
Makes me wonder if technology can be used in a better way, for example sensors in the ball, the boots and shirt.
Then technology instantly knows whether someone is onside or offside, so those become factual like goal line technology.

I’m amazed that only Wolves voted for this. Forest for all their complaints didn't support them?

Personally I think it’s great that they’ve kept it. We don’t have it in the EFL and that’s good. Leave them to it.

Of course it ruins the fans experience but fans generally keep paying money for tickets and tv subscriptions so don’t care that they don’t have a say in the future of the game, just give me that buzz of a game.

 

[YES Blade]

It's just been announced that all the PL clubs voted against Wolves motion to end VAR.
The voting was 16 clubs for VAR and 1 club (Wolves) against VAR, apparently non of the relegated or promoted clubs were there to vote.

So VAR stays in the PL next season.

My only issue with this vote is that

VAR has been proven to be about 95% accurate, so people are rightly furious about the 5% incorrect decisions.
However before VAR, the refs were 80% accurate and people were furious about 20% of the incorrect decisions.

So surely this is an improvement/ progress.
Also even when VAR proves a decision was correct, incredibly many managers, players and fans STILL refuse to accept the decision.
So this is also about a lack of respect towards authority issue.

Regards VAR think overall it's a good thing but there need to be a self critical review
because some things should be better.....the waiting around for decisions should be much much shorter.
Makes me wonder if technology can be used in a better way, for example sensors in the ball, the boots and shirt.
Then technology instantly knows whether someone is onside or offside, so those become factual like goal line technology.

I don’t think the time taken with VAR decisions would be as much of an issue if:

1. There was better communication with the fans in the stadium e.g. the ref has a mic and instantly announces that a decision is being reviewed.
2. The review process is more transparent. The replay of the incident is shown on the screen with audio of refs discussing the incident being available (maybe via those ear pieces fans have at other sports???)
3. There was an official clock in the stadium that was stopped during VAR incidents, it would reduce the pressure to rush a decision. Why does the time on the refs watch need to be secret anyway? An official clock would help stop time wasting also.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Correct, I’ve never said VAR is perfect or that it ever will be, it just needs to be improved to a level where the majority of fans are happy with how it’s used. The example you used could be one way in which fans may be happier with it’s use.

The general view of a majority of fans seems to be to just scrap it. Why not try to improve it to a point where it can’t get any better, then decide if it’s worth keeping?

There are plenty of basic improvements which would improve the fan experience of VAR, until some of those are implemented then I’m not ready to go back to the old ways of relying solely on a referee getting one look at an incident (if he even sees it all).

How long do you think it will take to improve VAR to the point where it can't get better? It has been in use 5 years in England now, and longer than that elsewhere. Give it another five years perhaps? Ten years? How long?

 

[YES Blade]

How long do you think it will take to improve VAR to the point where it can't get better? It has been in use 5 years in England now, and longer than that elsewhere. Give it another five years perhaps? Ten years? How long?

I can’t answer that question, it depends on the powers that be implementing improvements. Who knows how long that could take?

They should’ve introduced VAR years ago! I’ve no doubt it would’ve been a hell of a lot better by now. Rugby and Cricket were using it in the 90s FFS! But the dinosaurs running football always thought they knew better than everyone else.

 

[BrisBlade]

Clear and obvious errors are hand of god rather than toenail of Lunny. Getting rid of absolute howlers was meant to be the extent of VAR's mandate and I reckon all the controversy stems from overstepping this in search of unattainable perfection. Go back to basics and give them a maximum 30 seconds to make a call and no technology other than a simple replay and if they can't decide then the on field decision stands. In my not particularly humble view this would make the world a better place.

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

I’ve voted for ‘no’ by accident. I read VAR and immediately voted no . Get rid immediately. It’s the one thing above everything that I’m looking forward to in the championship

 

[Agreasychipbutty]

VAR has been proven to be about 95% accurate, so people are rightly furious about the 5% incorrect decisions.
However before VAR, the refs were 80% accurate and people were furious about 20% of the incorrect decisions.

So surely this is an improvement/ progress.

I think this is missing the point that most fans take issue with. While a lot of complaints are aimed at the incorrect decisions, the mistakes are more egregious than before because of the sacrifice that has been made to the fan experience in order to have VAR.

Also comparing mistakes with and without VAR is not apples to apples, if a ref misses something because they can't see it, or the lino makes a split second incorrect decision then it is much more understandable than people with camera angles of everything on the pitch and slow motion replays missing something.

 

[LBA_Blade]

Agreed. There is, as far as I can tell, no specific offence of shirt pulling so it must be covered by the contact rules under Law 12. It's probably under the holding but there's also impeding with contact and if so there's no intent necessity; every occurrence is punishable.

1. Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

• charges
• jumps at
• kicks or attempts to kick
• pushes
• strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
• tackles or challenges
• trips or attempts to trip

If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.

• Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
• Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
• Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences:

• a handball offence (except for the goalkeeper within their penalty area)
• holds an opponent
• impedes an opponent with contact
• bites or spits at someone on the team lists or a match official
• throws an object at the ball, opponent or match official, or makes contact with the ball with a held object

And there comes the contradiction and problems with the Laws of the Game. According to the stats there was a penalty every 4 ish games in the Premier League for 2023/24 (0.26) if the letter of the law was done properly that figure should be a lot higher due to the amount of contact at corners etc. How many times do we see shirt pulling and pushing and the like.