VAR Vote

[derfblade.3]

Don’t actually hate VAR actually coming round to liking it

Makes the games have much more drama

Not the sort of drama i like. So you like waiting 2 or 3 times a game for summat the ref used to get over with in a second? Strange.

 

[sitwell]

If you cant apply it in Graves park, it shouldnt be applied anywhere. hate the fucking thing, the biggest thing ever to turn me away from football.

 

[jt64]

Take last nights made game for example. VAR pretty much got everything right

Apart from the Udogie two footed lunge and the Romero petulant kick out, both of which were obvious red cards, which they chose to ignore

 

[dsr-burnley]

Do we really want offside to be judged by the inch anyway? Two of last night's disallowed goals would have been legal under the old rules about level being onside. When they changed the law so that "level" went from offside to onside, it was specifically stated that the idea was to give the attacker an advantage and to lead to more goals, such as the one Son scored. Now they have changed it back so that Son's goal has to be disallowed.

Does that improve the game?

IMO it would be better to go back to the same rules as they use in the Championship, that "level" covers a significant area not just a fraction of an inch, and VAR can view it purely as a photo without drawing any lines. If the players appear to be level, then they are level. (Which is as near as I can remember, a direct quote from the guidance to referees that came out in 1990 or 1991.) VAR could review that in 10 seconds.

But for now, scrap it. Then see if they can find a way to make it work, because it's not working now.

 

[Dark muffy]

Just simulate the whole game using AI, then nobody would get injured, clubs wouldn't get into debt as they wouldn't have any proper players, nobody would have to leave their house to watch, there would be no incorrect decisions, results could be manufactured properly not half hearted like they are now, Klopp would last another 10 years without having a coronary.......and Man City can win the league again at a canter.

 

[LBA_Blade]

This may seem exceptionally bizarre but the smart technology used in SailGP which is the F1 version of sailing has their "referees" (umpires) are sat in an office in London regardless of where the race is in the world. They use AI with sensors per team (granted this is over a 50ft yacht) but also on team members apparently that gives them the opportunity to collect more than 300,000 data points every second. Using this info the AI coding can plot the boats on the course, it can work out who finishes in what position and who was at fault for a collision as per the rules of sailing put in place. The company they use is a huge data company (Oracle) and personally if the PL wants to be the best you have to bring yourself to the AI level.

A "smart ball" players, on field referees and equipment with sensors (goalposts etc) I know FIFA (FC 24) has had its glitches over the years but they have the coding for offsides, free kicks etc - tapping into the E-Sports and AI world is really the only massive leap forward that can be justified.

 

[Headshrinker]

I have said it before and I'll say it again:

If VAR is to stay, have a centralized panel of the same seven people. Everyone has to be in favour of overturning the decision if you are to overturn the call made on the field. You will get much better consistency and also mostly get rid of the "Clear & obvious" errors.

As a bonus: After every match the same panel also dishes out five matches suspensions when everyone vote that a player tried to cheat.

 

[scouseblade]

Just simulate the whole game using AI, then nobody would get injured, clubs wouldn't get into debt as they wouldn't have any proper players, nobody would have to leave their house to watch, there would be no incorrect decisions, results could be manufactured properly not half hearted like they are now, Klopp would last another 10 years without having a coronary.......and Man City can win the league again at a canter.

They do this - its called EA sports 24 now.....I people actually play and win cash

 

[Speedracer]

I voted to scrap it, but only because it is let down by human failure. Working as intended it would be fine, but I don't see how we get to that point.

 

[Dark muffy]

They do this - its called EA sports 24 now.....I people actually play and win cash

Sounds good can I still support United and be disappointed and in a bad mood every weekend?

 

[SuperSonicBlade89]

Why not have 100 linesman and 20 refs.

I had a similar thought.

But why not have 2 refs per half? Or better yet have the 4th official actually do useful things. But at the rate of change in football I wouldn't be surprised if refs were replaced by A.I. Umpires in years to come, an evolution of VAR & Hawkeye.

I think the captains of teams should have more of a role in the actual running of the game rather than all the attention on the ref. More conversations with each other, more communication is better. This kind of thing happens in some grass roots football to an extent.

I have always admired the sin bin in many other sports. Does it undermine the integrity of the league say if a player was sent off in the 2nd minute and that team had to play 90+ mins with 10 men? They could allow that red carded player to be substituted as a suggestion. They talk about "financial fair play" a lot, but not about fair play in the game (other than constant offside and handball rules). It's so easy to get a card in the professional game and most of us I'm sure would agree that a lot of fouls given, simply aren't fouls by the notion that football is a contact sport. It's more like basketball nowadays.

No to VAR by the way. The delays, I thought I could get used to at first. But now I roll my eyes in frustration and a "here we go again"
If you want that shit, go play some simulation of football formally called FIFA.

 

[Bladesince59]

I think it's great, especially when the "BIG 6" are playing each other.

 

[LBA_Blade]

I had a similar thought.

But why not have 2 refs per half? Or better yet have the 4th official actually do useful things. But at the rate of change in football I wouldn't be surprised if refs were replaced by A.I. Umpires in years to come, an evolution of VAR & Hawkeye.

I think the captains of teams should have more of a role in the actual running of the game rather than all the attention on the ref. More conversations with each other, more communication is better. This kind of thing happens in some grass roots football to an extent.

I have always admired the sin bin in many other sports. Does it undermine the integrity of the league say if a player was sent off in the 2nd minute and that team had to play 90+ mins with 10 men? They could allow that red carded player to be substituted as a suggestion. They talk about "financial fair play" a lot, but not about fair play in the game (other than constant offside and handball rules). It's so easy to get a card in the professional game and most of us I'm sure would agree that a lot of fouls given, simply aren't fouls by the notion that football is a contact sport. It's more like basketball nowadays.

No to VAR by the way. The delays, I thought I could get used to at first. But now I roll my eyes in frustration and a "here we go again"
If you want that shit, go play some simulation of football formally called FIFA.

To be fair the 2 refs per idea could work quite well if their roles/positions are defined properly. A quick counter attack the "2nd ref" would immediately be up with play but do both referees follow the play or like assistants stop at the half way line. It would need good comms, they have it in hockey (no assistant referees) and in the NRL in Australia (rugby league) mainly due to the pace of the game.

 

[Selly]

To be fair the 2 refs per idea could work quite well if their roles/positions are defined properly. A quick counter attack the "2nd ref" would immediately be up with play but do both referees follow the play or like assistants stop at the half way line. It would need good comms, they have it in hockey (no assistant referees) and in the NRL in Australia (rugby league) mainly due to the pace of the game.

The biggest issue with the 2 refs idea is that you now need twice as many refs - and we are hardly flush with brilliant refs now...

 

[RealMcCoy]

Var doest needed to be scrapped, it does need to be refined and new definitions of rules. Offsides being absolutely clear (maybe a foot of space or clear daylight). As an example.

The offside rule would still be measured in millimetres by VAR to determine whether there’s “a foot” of space. The daylight suggestion would require a camera aimed straight across the pitch at the critical point of action. Alternatively there would have to be multiple cameras and some sort of extrapolation (as there is now), and we’d still be arguing whether someone’s big toe renders a player on or offside.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The offside rule would still be measured in millimetres by VAR to determine whether there’s “a foot” of space. The daylight suggestion would require a camera aimed straight across the pitch at the critical point of action. Alternatively there would have to be multiple cameras and some sort of extrapolation (as there is now), and we’d still be arguing whether someone’s big toe renders a player on or offside.

Fat Paul has suggested the new rule should be 1 foot, seems fair enough, but that means 11.5 inches means you’re on side where 12 inch means you’re offside, so you’re still left with John Lundstrams scenario.

The real solution is to put GPS tags in the front of every shirt and inside boots and the ball and the computer will instantly know if there’s offside or not.

But managers and fans having goals disallowed will still complain and say the technology is unfair and needs to be banned.

The bottom line is almost every manager and fan isn’t interested in correct decisions, they just want any decision to help their team win.

 

[RealMcCoy]

The bottom line is almost every manager and fan isn’t interested in correct decisions, they just want any decision to help their team win.

I think the other side of this coin is even more true, in that no one wants to see a wrong decision punish their team. That’s heartbreak/injustice/frustration that goes very deep.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Do away with VAR. It’s an abomination.

It’s abominable partly because the “need” for it is entirely driven by the presence of media, not by the needs of the game. If there weren’t 20 UHD cameras, and super slo-mo, pointed at every blade of grass, there wouldn’t be a perceived need for VAR in the first place, because a big proportion of the alleged “bad decisions” wouldn’t even be visible. It’s not a logical progression for the game, nor even an organic consequence of poor refereeing or the pace of modern football. It’s a product of forensic TV coverage.

It’s also abominable because it allows for shit changes to the laws to be implemented in ever more batshit ways. Particularly handball and offside, both of which can be mistakenly assessed in a thousand ways when slowed down to 50 frames a second.

I’m much happier grumbling about ambiguously poor reffing using my own eyesight than having to deal with the stream of cretinous shite pumped out weekly by VAR, even when we benefit from it.

When I take power:

1: the guiding principle for offside will be “was decisive advantage gained?” (hint: in the case of Lundstram’s big toe during a previous phase of play at Spurs, or Moose’s bootcap as he headed for the touchline 40 yards from goal at Man City, the answer would be “no decisive advantage was gained, so both goals stand”).

2: VAR, and all who travel in her, consigned to Putin’s grimmest gulag.

3: PGMOL dissolved. Possibly in an acid bath.

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

Keep goal-line technology. Scrap VAR (did anyone think in any of the matches in the Championship 'I wish VAR had been operating in that game' ?Or did we not even think about it?)

 

[YES Blade]

It’s ridiculous to blame the VAR technology, the issue is with the decision making of the officials.

End of the day, it’s no different to the pre-VAR days. Managers and players moan when a decision goes against them, they don’t care how the decision is made as long as it goes for them.

 

[Servigliano]

Do away with VAR. It’s an abomination.

It’s abominable partly because the “need” for it is entirely driven by the presence of media, not by the needs of the game. If there weren’t 20 UHD cameras, and super slo-mo, pointed at every blade of grass, there wouldn’t be a perceived need for VAR in the first place, because a big proportion of the alleged “bad decisions” wouldn’t even be visible. It’s not a logical progression for the game, nor even an organic consequence of poor refereeing or the pace of modern football. It’s a product of forensic TV coverage.

It’s also abominable because it allows for shit changes to the laws to be implemented in ever more batshit ways. Particularly handball and offside, both of which can be mistakenly assessed in a thousand ways when slowed down to 50 frames a second.

I’m much happier grumbling about ambiguously poor reffing using my own eyesight than having to deal with the stream of cretinous shite pumped out weekly by VAR, even when we benefit from it.

When I take power:

1: the guiding principle for offside will be “was decisive advantage gained?” (hint: in the case of Lundstram’s big toe during a previous phase of play at Spurs, or Moose’s bootcap as he headed for the touchline 40 yards from goal at Man City, the answer would be “no decisive advantage was gained, so both goals stand”).

2: VAR, and all who travel in her, consigned to Putin’s grimmest gulag.

3: PGMOL dissolved. Possibly in an acid bath.

I seem to be getting the distinct impression that you might not actually be in favour of VAR?
( I agree 100%).

 

[HillmortonBlade]

The poll could equally be “do you prefer watching football live or on tv?”

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

It’s ridiculous to blame the VAR technology, the issue is with the decision making of the officials.

End of the day, it’s no different to the pre-VAR days. Managers and players moan when a decision goes against them, they don’t care how the decision is made as long as it goes for them.

I don’t think anyone is blaming the technology. That would be a bit daft. Broadly, it’s the introduction of it in the first place, the uses to which it’s put, and the negative impact it has on the experience of supporters watching in grounds, that people object to.

But it’s also the case that reliance on the technology does help promote ridiculous and ill-informed decision making. Example 1: footage slowed down to 50 frames per second can make an infinitesimally mistimed tackle look like a violent assault with intent, when it’s neither of those things.

 

[YES Blade]

I don’t think anyone is blaming the technology. That would be a bit daft. Broadly, it’s the introduction of it in the first place, the uses to which it’s put, and the negative impact it has on the experience of supporters watching in grounds, that people object to.

But it’s also the case that reliance on the technology does help promote ridiculous and ill-informed decision making. Example 1: footage slowed down to 50 frames per second can make an infinitesimally mistimed tackle look like a violent assault with intent, when it’s neither of those things.

By suggesting that VAR needs to be scrapped, it seems that some fans have a problem with the use of technology.

What it comes down to for me is that the use of technology and video replays has been a success in every sport that’s introduced it (as far as I’m aware). So why won’t it be a success in football?

It will evolve and improve over time, it’s just going to take a bit of time.

 

[dsr-burnley]

By suggesting that VAR needs to be scrapped, it seems that some fans have a problem with the use of technology.

What it comes down to for me is that the use of technology and video replays has been a success in every sport that’s introduced it (as far as I’m aware). So why won’t it be a success in football?

It will evolve and improve over time, it’s just going to take a bit of time.

This is the fifth season and it isn't getting any better. What do you suggest, another five years? Another 10 years? How long?

 

[Thrice]

I think ultimately the positives outweigh the negatives. Imagine all the offside goals we would've seen this season without VAR. There have been some bad referee decisions, but without VAR there would've been many more.

 

[YES Blade]

This is the fifth season and it isn't getting any better. What do you suggest, another five years? Another 10 years? How long?

That’s because people only focus on the negatives, the correct decisions don’t make the headlines, it’s not all bad.

So why can every other sport seem to make it work and football can’t? Football isn’t a completely unique sport where replays and technology can’t help officiating.

 

[S6Blademan]

Not the sort of drama i like. So you like waiting 2 or 3 times a game for summat the ref used to get over with in a second? Strange.

It depends how you look at it

If they showed the replay on the big screen at the back of the south stand they show the replays of the incident so you know what’s happening

The main issue with been at the games is you don’t actually know what’s happening

More jeapordy = more drama which = more entertainment in my eyes

Same applies for the extra added time

 

[S6Blademan]

That’s because people only focus on the negatives, the correct decisions don’t make the headlines, it’s not all bad.

So why can every other sport seem to make it work and football can’t? Football isn’t a completely unique sport where replays and technology can’t help officiating.

I’d say football is harder than every other sport

Football is the only sport that doenst have a natural break eg after a delivery in cricket or point in tennis

 

[Grey Blade]

It’s a product of forensic TV coverage.

This hits the nail on the head! The first MOTD programmes showed highlights of one game with limited camera angles and occasional action replays. As TV coverage became more sophisticated, with multiple camera angles, every incident could be analysed thus undermining referee decisions.

We're not going to lose TV coverage so I'm afraid we're stuck with VAR.

I suspect the majority of TV football fans find it adds to the entertainment whereas fans who regularly attend games find it ruins any spontaneity and most of the time fans in the stadium struggle to know what's going on (whilst the TV coverage is showing countless action replays from multiple angles)