The Deadline Day Scapegoat

[robbiez666]

Strange title, I know, but we've been rather prolific at having bad deadline days. It's also a bit of a ramble as I've had little sleep over the last few days.

Who can forget such classics as:

The fax machine doesn't work
When a premiership team comes in for one of your young players
the line that we just can never get across
The offer was too good to refuse

and now:

It''s all the fault of agents.

Funnily enough, every club in every league are in similar positions to us, but we're more often than not the ones coming out of it negatively.

I've been in a field for the last few days, so missed much of the 'fun'. I was sat in a car with Wolves, Wednesday and Derby fans on the way down the country whilst all this farago was going on.

This is not meant as a criticism of Wilder, who may have been naive but that's not the point.

The point is that as a club we almost always operate on a fairly tight budget. You can see from that transfer day article/video. We're not going to be paying £500k for a player we hope will start in the Championship against players who cost significantly more.

And I for one don't buy these million pound bids for players who start for teams considered to be currently bigger than us and who play regularly (Egan, Coady etc). It's nonsense.

If Chris is going to be operating within tight restrictions, then the pool he's fishing in is much smaller. He's more likely to have to play waiting games and to lose out on targets.

And whilst the question needs to be asked about the funds available (I note with amusement that the club has manged to persuade many that our transfer budget now operates on a fee, fees, wages and towels usage basis unlike the humble transfer fee which was in operation until about 5 years ago), I'm going to leave that to one side. I'm happy for my club to operate within its means and to not get itself into a huge unsustainable debt.

My point is planning. We don't do it well enough and we need to spend a lot of time and resources ensuring it's better in the future. We need to be more savvy. We need to give Chris and the club the best chance to succeed.

We need to:

• Extend the pool - We need to give Chris the best opportunity to sign players without being beholden to the whims of agents and clubs.
• Build scouting networks. Instead of throwing money away by forging connections with clubs around the world (in places that just happen to have good opportunities for property development...), we need to build up relationships with scouts across Europe. Forge partnerships on the basis of shared knowledge.
• Looks at European markets. Particularly Scandinavia and with leagues in the likes of Belgium, German, Holland etc. The money involved around English players and English leagues is ridiculous. We need to cast our nets wider to get better for less.
• Ensure that we're ahead of the curve when it comes to talent within Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. There are bargains to be had and they've often the types of player we're after.
• Support Paul Mitchell because he's a bloody good chief scout with a lot of connections and knowledge. We need to make sure we hold on to him and help him wherever we can.
• Invest in the backroom - we need to get the best out of all our players to compete.Coaches,sports scientists, fitness specialist etc

This is all about investing towards a long-term goal and making a sustainable infrastructure. We've done it brilliantly with the Academy and reaped the rewards (albeit mainly financial). I'd rather we invest the extra time finding the right players on a budget and spend money safeguarding our future.

 

[Revolution]

Interesting post.

My guess is someone will accuse you of supporting Wednesday in about the 18th post in response.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Interesting post.

My guess is someone will accuse you of supporting Wednesday in about the 18th post in response.

He doesnt support Wednesday,but he has a disliking for Chris Wilder

 

[I should coco]

Build scouting networks. Instead of throwing money away by forging connections with clubs around the world (in places that just happen to have good opportunities for property development...), we need to build up relationships with scouts across Europe. Forge partnerships on the basis of shared knowledge.

Ensure that we're ahead of the curve when it comes to talent within Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. There are bargains to be had and they've often the types of player we're after.

Support Paul Mitchell because he's a bloody good chief scout with a lot of connections and knowledge. We need to make sure we hold on to him and help him wherever we can.

Invest in the backroom - we need to get the best out of all our players to compete.Coaches,sports scientists, fitness specialist etc

WOW!

Who'd have thought of any of that?

McCabe out now for me and robbiez666 in as CEO / CFO / Chairman / Head of Recruitment / Company Secretary / Kitman / Tea lady etc etc etc.

 

[Esablade]

He doesnt support Wednesday,but he has a disliking for Chris Wilder

Many others did before his appointment and subsequent success...some even said they'd walk away from the club if Wilder were appointed...

 

[Westran]

Many others did before his appointment and subsequent success...some even said they'd walk away from the club if Wilder were appointed...

Did they really? I must have missed that bit.

 

[BladeInIreland]

It seems to me Chris likes players he 100% knows will fit in. Either he's worked with them, Mitchell or knill knows them or he knows players or managers he trusts to give a reference for them.

If he dips into foreign markets (not saying he shouldn't) then I think it's more of a gamble to him. And if the budget is as tight as it seems he may be willing to pay that extra 200k for a player he knows will fit in.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I reckon if Wilder saw the opening post he'd laugh
And say we already do everything suggested by Robbiez666.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Strange title, I know, but we've been rather prolific at having bad deadline days. It's also a bit of a ramble as I've had little sleep over the last few days.

Who can forget such classics as:

The fax machine doesn't work
When a premiership team comes in for one of your young players
the line that we just can never get across
The offer was too good to refuse

and now:

It''s all the fault of agents.

Funnily enough, every club in every league are in similar positions to us, but we're more often than not the ones coming out of it negatively.

I've been in a field for the last few days, so missed much of the 'fun'. I was sat in a car with Wolves, Wednesday and Derby fans on the way down the country whilst all this farago was going on.

This is not meant as a criticism of Wilder, who may have been naive but that's not the point.

The point is that as a club we almost always operate on a fairly tight budget. You can see from that transfer day article/video. We're not going to be paying £500k for a player we hope will start in the Championship against players who cost significantly more.

And I for one don't buy these million pound bids for players who start for teams considered to be currently bigger than us and who play regularly (Egan, Coady etc). It's nonsense.

If Chris is going to be operating within tight restrictions, then the pool he's fishing in is much smaller. He's more likely to have to play waiting games and to lose out on targets.

And whilst the question needs to be asked about the funds available (I note with amusement that the club has manged to persuade many that our transfer budget now operates on a fee, fees, wages and towels usage basis unlike the humble transfer fee which was in operation until about 5 years ago), I'm going to leave that to one side. I'm happy for my club to operate within its means and to not get itself into a huge unsustainable debt.

My point is planning. We don't do it well enough and we need to spend a lot of time and resources ensuring it's better in the future. We need to be more savvy. We need to give Chris and the club the best chance to succeed.

We need to:

• Extend the pool - We need to give Chris the best opportunity to sign players without being beholden to the whims of agents and clubs.
• Build scouting networks. Instead of throwing money away by forging connections with clubs around the world (in places that just happen to have good opportunities for property development...), we need to build up relationships with scouts across Europe. Forge partnerships on the basis of shared knowledge.
• Looks at European markets. Particularly Scandinavia and with leagues in the likes of Belgium, German, Holland etc. The money involved around English players and English leagues is ridiculous. We need to cast our nets wider to get better for less.
• Ensure that we're ahead of the curve when it comes to talent within Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. There are bargains to be had and they've often the types of player we're after.
• Support Paul Mitchell because he's a bloody good chief scout with a lot of connections and knowledge. We need to make sure we hold on to him and help him wherever we can.
• Invest in the backroom - we need to get the best out of all our players to compete.Coaches,sports scientists, fitness specialist etc

This is all about investing towards a long-term goal and making a sustainable infrastructure. We've done it brilliantly with the Academy and reaped the rewards (albeit mainly financial). I'd rather we invest the extra time finding the right players on a budget and spend money safeguarding our future.

I wonder if anyone at the club has thought of this?

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Nice post but it would've been wank if the cameras turned up on deadline day and we'd already got sorted.

 

[Bert]

I wonder if anyone at the club has thought of this?

It's game changing thinking, bet they do all that at Liverpool.

 

[robbiez666]

I love the way I'm laughed at because derr the club has obviously thought of that.

And yet there's been little seen of it over the last 10 years.

We need to be the one of the best in the league in all these areas in order to ever hope of going up. We can't compete financially and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

Trust the manager. Back the manager. But you have to give him the best chance possible of being successful.

 

[Harrisblade]

I love the way I'm laughed at because derr the club has obviously thought of that.

And yet there's been little seen of it over the last 10 years.

We need to be the one of the best in the league in all these areas in order to ever hope of going up. We can't compete financially and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

Trust the manager. Back the manager. But you have to give him the best chance possible of being successful.

But for 6 out of the last 10 years we were a Lge 1 club and maybe not many scouts would have been interested in suggesting players to us anyway.
From now on however, I agree that your suggestions are well worth considering although I think you'll find that even the Prem clubs are sometimes screwed over by agents but because their second choices are still stupidly expensive it's not so noticeable!

 

[Revolution]

He doesnt support Wednesday,but he has a disliking for Chris Wilder

Excellent.

Have you got a list somewhere summarising other posters' opinions? Care to share it?

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Excellent.

Have you got a list somewhere summarising other posters' opinions? Care to share it?

Yes I have and no not with you

You disputing this particular poster dislikes our manager btw?

 

[Good Pinch Of Snuff]

be carefull on here mate lol

 

[Esablade]

Did they really? I must have missed that bit.

Think there is a 'repentance' thread knocking about sonewhere...

 

[Revolution]

Yes I have and no not with you

You disputing this particular poster dislikes our manager btw?

You won't share your list? Spoilsport.

If you held a gun to my head I couldn't tell you what he thinks of Wilder. I can't say it sticks in my mind.

I like Wilder, by the way, so I hope that I'm not in that section of the list as well as the "defends Pigs" section..

 

[Tunstall Fred]

You won't share your list? Spoilsport.

If you held a gun to my head I couldn't tell you what he thinks of Wilder. I can't say it sticks in my mind.

I like Wilder, by the way, so I hope that I'm not in that section of the list as well as the "defends Pigs" section..

Now you come to mention it,silly me,no you are down as a Ched hater as well as a Pig Apologist

 

[I should coco]

o I hope that I'm not in that section of the list as well as the "defends Pigs" section..

I think you are in the 'Not-to-be-trusted-100%-due-to-some-dodgy-subversive-views,-but-generally-okay,-good-on-history-and-a-cracking-avatar' section.

 

[JohnDenver]

Funnily enough, every club in every league are in similar positions to us, but we're more often than not the ones coming out of it negatively.

Can't argue with the stuff about improving the scouting network, but the statement above - is it true? We built a promotion team from a very low base last summer. In January we shored up the squad and smashed the league.

This summer, we're perhaps one striker short of where we would like to be. We've bought a lot of players in successfully.

So do we come out of windows negative for the "planning" reasons you suggest? Or were previous windows disappointments just down to lack of money and/or poor managerial assessments of players? Clough not signing a defender. Adkins not addressing glaring issues and buying his old mates. Blackwell relying on short term loanees and useless cloggers.

 

[itsinyerblood]

I love the way I'm laughed at because derr the club has obviously thought of that.

And yet there's been little seen of it over the last 10 years.

We need to be the one of the best in the league in all these areas in order to ever hope of going up. We can't compete financially and that's unlikely to change any time soon.

Trust the manager. Back the manager. But you have to give him the best chance possible of being successful.

Just look at the number of 'likes' you received robbie, seems a few of us agree with you and like what you've said........the one area that I think will have changed since Wilder arrived is planning, I would imagine that under Wilder the amount of pre-planning is a vast improvement on previous regimes.

 

[BushBlade]

Strange title, I know, but we've been rather prolific at having bad deadline days. It's also a bit of a ramble as I've had little sleep over the last few days.

Who can forget such classics as:

The fax machine doesn't work
When a premiership team comes in for one of your young players
the line that we just can never get across
The offer was too good to refuse

and now:

It''s all the fault of agents.

Funnily enough, every club in every league are in similar positions to us, but we're more often than not the ones coming out of it negatively.

I've been in a field for the last few days, so missed much of the 'fun'. I was sat in a car with Wolves, Wednesday and Derby fans on the way down the country whilst all this farago was going on.

This is not meant as a criticism of Wilder, who may have been naive but that's not the point.

The point is that as a club we almost always operate on a fairly tight budget. You can see from that transfer day article/video. We're not going to be paying £500k for a player we hope will start in the Championship against players who cost significantly more.

And I for one don't buy these million pound bids for players who start for teams considered to be currently bigger than us and who play regularly (Egan, Coady etc). It's nonsense.

If Chris is going to be operating within tight restrictions, then the pool he's fishing in is much smaller. He's more likely to have to play waiting games and to lose out on targets.

And whilst the question needs to be asked about the funds available (I note with amusement that the club has manged to persuade many that our transfer budget now operates on a fee, fees, wages and towels usage basis unlike the humble transfer fee which was in operation until about 5 years ago), I'm going to leave that to one side. I'm happy for my club to operate within its means and to not get itself into a huge unsustainable debt.

My point is planning. We don't do it well enough and we need to spend a lot of time and resources ensuring it's better in the future. We need to be more savvy. We need to give Chris and the club the best chance to succeed.

We need to:

• Extend the pool - We need to give Chris the best opportunity to sign players without being beholden to the whims of agents and clubs.
• Build scouting networks. Instead of throwing money away by forging connections with clubs around the world (in places that just happen to have good opportunities for property development...), we need to build up relationships with scouts across Europe. Forge partnerships on the basis of shared knowledge.
• Looks at European markets. Particularly Scandinavia and with leagues in the likes of Belgium, German, Holland etc. The money involved around English players and English leagues is ridiculous. We need to cast our nets wider to get better for less.
• Ensure that we're ahead of the curve when it comes to talent within Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. There are bargains to be had and they've often the types of player we're after.
• Support Paul Mitchell because he's a bloody good chief scout with a lot of connections and knowledge. We need to make sure we hold on to him and help him wherever we can.
• Invest in the backroom - we need to get the best out of all our players to compete.Coaches,sports scientists, fitness specialist etc

This is all about investing towards a long-term goal and making a sustainable infrastructure. We've done it brilliantly with the Academy and reaped the rewards (albeit mainly financial). I'd rather we invest the extra time finding the right players on a budget and spend money safeguarding our future.

I think we're doing that but CW has only been here for just over a year. All that doesn't happen overnight. The longer he's here, the more we'll see the benefits of how he's rebuilt us.

 

[derfblade.3]

Are we going backwards? Looking at the shit on here you would think so wouldn't you?

• Overall Standings
• Full Standings

First Team | Sky Bet Championship 2017/18 | League Table
Overall
Pos Club Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Cardiff City 5 5 0 0 10 2 8 15
2 Ipswich Town 5 4 0 1 9 6 3 12
3 Leeds United 5 3 2 0 7 2 5 11
4 Wolverhampton Wanderers 5 3 1 1 7 4 3 10
5 Sheffield United 5 3 0 2 5 4 1 9
6 Nottingham Forest 5 3 0 2 8 8 0 9
7 Preston North End 5 2 2 1 2 1 1 8
8 Hull City 5 2 1 2 12 7 5 7
9 Middlesbrough 5 2 1 2 4 3 1 7
10 Queens Park Rangers 5 2 1 2 6 6 0 7
11 Reading 5 2 1 2 5 5 0 7
12 Derby County 5 2 1 2 5 7 -2 7
13 Bristol City 5 1 3 1 7 6 1 6
14 Fulham 5 1 3 1 4 3 1 6
15 Barnsley 5 2 0 3 7 7 0 6
16 Sheffield Wednesday 5 1 3 1 4 4 0 6
17 Millwall 5 1 2 2 8 6 2 5
18 Aston Villa 5 1 2 2 7 9 -2 5
19 Sunderland 5 1 2 2 5 8 -3 5
20 Birmingham City 5 1 1 3 3 6 -3 4
21 Burton Albion 5 1 1 3 4 9 -5 4
22 Norwich City 5 1 1 3 6 12 -6 4
23 Brentford 5 0 2 3 5 9 -4 2
24 Bolton Wanderers 5 0 2 3 4 10 -6 2

 

[robbiez666]

I think we're doing that but CW has only been here for just over a year. All that doesn't happen overnight. The longer he's here, the more we'll see the benefits of how he's rebuilt us.

Agreed, but the Board need to back him in doing this. I don't mean by throwing money around but to make it possible.

One of the points I was trying to make in my unfocused ramble is that there's often an excuse or a scapegoat. The club needs to invest time and money to ensure that this becomes an anomaly not a normal occurrence.

 

[Revolution]

Now you come to mention it,silly me,no you are down as a Ched hater as well as a Pig Apologist

Is there a subsection in Ched haters dividing them between people who hate him because of what he did and people who think it was a stupid idea to re-sign him? Because if so, put me down for the latter please.

I also think he needs another pre-season if there's a section for that.

 

[Groucho Blade]

I don't think we had a bad deadline day.

Not necessarily a great one, you could argue that it was a good one, but it was definitely nowhere near a bad one.

 

[robbiez666]

Can't argue with the stuff about improving the scouting network, but the statement above - is it true? We built a promotion team from a very low base last summer. In January we shored up the squad and smashed the league.

This summer, we're perhaps one striker short of where we would like to be. We've bought a lot of players in successfully.

So do we come out of windows negative for the "planning" reasons you suggest? Or were previous windows disappointments just down to lack of money and/or poor managerial assessments of players? Clough not signing a defender. Adkins not addressing glaring issues and buying his old mates. Blackwell relying on short term loanees and useless cloggers.

There's been a whole raft of bad planning and bad decisions from our previous managers. However, the ownership remains the same. The long-term planning needs to be vastly better. We have a good manager who can work within means. There needs to be an infrastructure built up around him to allow his vision to flourish.

Wilder is clearly much better in terms of planning and future-thinking. The club need to support him to the hilt in this.

In terms of this window, we've clearly not got the players the manager wanted. Maybe naivety on CW/AK's parts or the fact that because they've got a number of requirements and only a limited pool to source them from, that we're hanging on hoping for the best where we'd ideally be able to shift focus to other targets.

You can argue that we should have gone up every year we were in League 1. We need to stabilize in this league whilst looking to push on. That's a mix of young players who the staff can significantly improve along with players for the first team squad who can compete. We've gone some way to doing this, but have come up short. 3 or 4 players short, depending how you look at it.

The problem is away from home and with injuries. We'll hopefully be lucky, but we've seen already how easily our strikeforce can be decimated.

 

[robbiez666]

Are we going backwards? Looking at the shit on here you would think so wouldn't you?

• Overall Standings
• Full Standings

First Team | Sky Bet Championship 2017/18 | League Table
Overall
Pos Club Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
1 Cardiff City 5 5 0 0 10 2 8 15
2 Ipswich Town 5 4 0 1 9 6 3 12
3 Leeds United 5 3 2 0 7 2 5 11
4 Wolverhampton Wanderers 5 3 1 1 7 4 3 10
5 Sheffield United 5 3 0 2 5 4 1 9
6 Nottingham Forest 5 3 0 2 8 8 0 9
7 Preston North End 5 2 2 1 2 1 1 8
8 Hull City 5 2 1 2 12 7 5 7
9 Middlesbrough 5 2 1 2 4 3 1 7
10 Queens Park Rangers 5 2 1 2 6 6 0 7
11 Reading 5 2 1 2 5 5 0 7
12 Derby County 5 2 1 2 5 7 -2 7
13 Bristol City 5 1 3 1 7 6 1 6
14 Fulham 5 1 3 1 4 3 1 6
15 Barnsley 5 2 0 3 7 7 0 6
16 Sheffield Wednesday 5 1 3 1 4 4 0 6
17 Millwall 5 1 2 2 8 6 2 5
18 Aston Villa 5 1 2 2 7 9 -2 5
19 Sunderland 5 1 2 2 5 8 -3 5
20 Birmingham City 5 1 1 3 3 6 -3 4
21 Burton Albion 5 1 1 3 4 9 -5 4
22 Norwich City 5 1 1 3 6 12 -6 4
23 Brentford 5 0 2 3 5 9 -4 2
24 Bolton Wanderers 5 0 2 3 4 10 -6 2

I'm not quite sure what your point is but it's not likely to be justified by a league table after 5 games. Norwich will clearly be going down.

Let's look again after September, when we've played 2 more home games and 4 more away games.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

Strange title, I know, but we've been rather prolific at having bad deadline days. It's also a bit of a ramble as I've had little sleep over the last few days.

Who can forget such classics as:

The fax machine doesn't work
When a premiership team comes in for one of your young players
the line that we just can never get across
The offer was too good to refuse

and now:

It''s all the fault of agents.

Funnily enough, every club in every league are in similar positions to us, but we're more often than not the ones coming out of it negatively.

I've been in a field for the last few days, so missed much of the 'fun'. I was sat in a car with Wolves, Wednesday and Derby fans on the way down the country whilst all this farago was going on.

This is not meant as a criticism of Wilder, who may have been naive but that's not the point.

The point is that as a club we almost always operate on a fairly tight budget. You can see from that transfer day article/video. We're not going to be paying £500k for a player we hope will start in the Championship against players who cost significantly more.

And I for one don't buy these million pound bids for players who start for teams considered to be currently bigger than us and who play regularly (Egan, Coady etc). It's nonsense.

If Chris is going to be operating within tight restrictions, then the pool he's fishing in is much smaller. He's more likely to have to play waiting games and to lose out on targets.

And whilst the question needs to be asked about the funds available (I note with amusement that the club has manged to persuade many that our transfer budget now operates on a fee, fees, wages and towels usage basis unlike the humble transfer fee which was in operation until about 5 years ago), I'm going to leave that to one side. I'm happy for my club to operate within its means and to not get itself into a huge unsustainable debt.

My point is planning. We don't do it well enough and we need to spend a lot of time and resources ensuring it's better in the future. We need to be more savvy. We need to give Chris and the club the best chance to succeed.

We need to:

• Extend the pool - We need to give Chris the best opportunity to sign players without being beholden to the whims of agents and clubs.
• Build scouting networks. Instead of throwing money away by forging connections with clubs around the world (in places that just happen to have good opportunities for property development...), we need to build up relationships with scouts across Europe. Forge partnerships on the basis of shared knowledge.
• Looks at European markets. Particularly Scandinavia and with leagues in the likes of Belgium, German, Holland etc. The money involved around English players and English leagues is ridiculous. We need to cast our nets wider to get better for less.
• Ensure that we're ahead of the curve when it comes to talent within Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. There are bargains to be had and they've often the types of player we're after.
• Support Paul Mitchell because he's a bloody good chief scout with a lot of connections and knowledge. We need to make sure we hold on to him and help him wherever we can.
• Invest in the backroom - we need to get the best out of all our players to compete.Coaches,sports scientists, fitness specialist etc

This is all about investing towards a long-term goal and making a sustainable infrastructure. We've done it brilliantly with the Academy and reaped the rewards (albeit mainly financial). I'd rather we invest the extra time finding the right players on a budget and spend money safeguarding our future.

This is not an agree or disagree post but the one thing I would say is that you are assuming that other clubs haven't had similar issues to us. The fact that we invited the cameras in made it clear what we felt the issue was with these deals. How do you know the same conversations weren't happening across the country at other clubs?

There are issues in football but it's a stretch to suggest it's only us that have them.

Equally how do we know a regular elsewhere isn't available for the right price unless we bid and test the water? Imagine the meltdown on here if someone else did that and got someone we wanted from under our noses.