Stadium Development

[Le Cynique]

Look at the countless teams from smaller clubs than us that have built Whole new stadiums (Rotherham, Donny, Reading, Coventry, Hull, Southampton, Leicester etc) in relative terms their outlay has been no greater than ours would be. They don't have the potential fanbase any where near the size of ours. None have gone out of business, some have won trophy's. All increased their attendances as we did when the family stand was built 13 - 14000 before and 25000 + even during 6 long years in division 1. When I used to listen to Radio Sheffield the 'steady and blinkered' hosts would answer calls for ambition with: you don't want to end up like Leeds, Leicester, Portsmouth, Wigan ... and others that fell on hard times at some point. My answer was always a resounding f##k YES, all those clubs have won major trophies in my lifetime & the memories must never fade. Don't come back with the embarrasing pathetic "we won the 4th Division though".
i don't want to be 86yrs old like me dad still moaning about selling Jones and Birchenall within 3 months.

Sheffield is the Historic home of professsional football, we have a potential fan base of close to a million people, 2 University's with overseas students catching a train to Manchester to watch football instead of their local side, we were the polwer house of football at the end of the 129th Century. I cannot believe in 125 years nobody, not a FUCK1n oner had the vision and love for Sheffield United to deliver.

One last typical little club boll0cks: Jimmy Hagan, hero to all those of a certain era was called to the Chairman's office. "Jimmy lad, ..." Wednesday have offered £5000 for you, what about it???". Hagan loved the Blades and was their best (some say ever) player. He said "no" and the Chairman didn't speak to him for weeks. It's fuckin mindboggling how one cub could have so many bufffoons running a club the size of SUFC for 125 years. Breaks my heart.

Stopped reading when you suggested that Southampton and Leicester are smaller clubs than us.

 

[haich1889]

To accommodate the 60k who several on here seem to think will come flooding in to a new stadium.

They may or may not come flooding in. Thing is shove your head in the sand and nobody will ever know.
Chelsea had attendances around 6000 at their low point. If the owners had not taken the chance they would not have had the success that came. Pity ... we'll never know cos we have too many that embrace the 'tight' Yorkshireman too literally.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

They may or may not come flooding in. Thing is shove your head in the sand and nobody will ever know.
Chelsea had attendances around 6000 at their low point. If the owners had not taken the chance they would not have had the success that came. Pity ... we'll never know cos we have too many that embrace the 'tight' Yorkshireman too literally.

Stamford Bridge has always been massive though, hasn't it?

Surely the attendances only dropped when the team were shit?

 

[Hobgoblin]

They may or may not come flooding in. Thing is shove your head in the sand and nobody will ever know.
Chelsea had attendances around 6000 at their low point. If the owners had not taken the chance they would not have had the success that came. Pity ... we'll never know cos we have too many that embrace the 'tight' Yorkshireman too literally.

It’s London they are full of tourists

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

Don’t get when people say “soulless new stadiums” they’re made from bricks and mortar like the retro stadiums…however for us and our ceiling of fanbase unless something drastic happens, tart up the kop/south stand, increase capacity and remove pillars, add a section for safe standing and jobs a good en

 

[robbiez666]

They may or may not come flooding in. Thing is shove your head in the sand and nobody will ever know.
Chelsea had attendances around 6000 at their low point. If the owners had not taken the chance they would not have had the success that came. Pity ... we'll never know cos we have too many that embrace the 'tight' Yorkshireman too literally.

Can't think of anything worse than playing in a 60k stadium with 25k fans in it. Do we really need to make our stadium bigger? If we had a period of success then yes but when was the last time we were in the top flight for any length of time? 1970s?

 

[Snowflake]

They may or may not come flooding in. Thing is shove your head in the sand and nobody will ever know.
Chelsea had attendances around 6000 at their low point. If the owners had not taken the chance they would not have had the success that came. Pity ... we'll never know cos we have too many that embrace the 'tight' Yorkshireman too literally.

Chelsea put the rest of the infrastructure in place first. It has to be the right way forward. Simply building a bigger ground without the rest is a disaster.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Stopped reading when you suggested that Southampton and Leicester are smaller clubs than us.

Based on big clubs data/ facts they are historically smaller than us, altho accept that even though overall we are bigger
In recent seasons (last 20 years) they are bigger, especially Leicester.

Trophies won: 1st SU 1 title + 4 FA cups, 2nd Leicester 1title + 1 FA cup 3rd Southampton 0 titles + 1 FA cup
Seasons in the top flight: 1st SU 63 season, 2nd Leicester 55 seasons, 3rd Southampton 46 seasons
Historical attendances :1st Leicester 19.8K, 2nd Sheff Utd 19.5K, 3rd Southampton 18.7K

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

The kop (where I sit/stand) really is a shithole now. Ticketing is farcical, although I am OK with the digital side of it. The kop does need sorting but I think the rest of the stadium is OK, even if we get established in the PL.
By sorting I mean demolition and rebuilding, nothing else will really do. This shouldn't be beyond the resources of the club to manage in a one season timescale.

 

[1889Paul]

The kop (where I sit/stand) really is a shithole now. Ticketing is farcical, although I am OK with the digital side of it. The kop does need sorting but I think the rest of the stadium is OK, even if we get established in the PL.
By sorting I mean demolition and rebuilding, nothing else will really do. This shouldn't be beyond the resources of the club to manage in a one season timescale.

Really??
When did football supporters become so entitled ?
Get yourself to the match and everything else will sort itself out.

 

[Le Cynique]

Based on big clubs data/ facts they are historically smaller than us, altho accept that even though overall we are bigger
In recent seasons (last 20 years) they are bigger, especially Leicester.

Trophies won: 1st SU 1 title + 4 FA cups, 2nd Leicester 1title + 1 FA cup 3rd Southampton 0 titles + 1 FA cup
Seasons in the top flight: 1st SU 63 season, 2nd Leicester 55 seasons, 3rd Southampton 46 seasons
Historical attendances :1st Leicester 19.8K, 2nd Sheff Utd 19.5K, 3rd Southampton 18.7K

This is the kind of argument the Pigs put forward to suggest they should be considered bigger than they are.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Based on big clubs data/ facts they are historically smaller than us, altho accept that even though overall we are bigger
In recent seasons (last 20 years) they are bigger.

So in other words today, which is all that counts, they are bigger.

 

[TaxiBlade]

The pitch size does not meet UEFA standards which means to upgrade the lane the Kop has to be moved further towards Shoreham st to allow the pitch to be longer. Best way to do it is a rebuild of the Kop far enough back to allow a future rebuild of the lower lane end making that stand one tier only allowing a split for away fans top to bottom. Any digging down could hit the natural water table, John st stand should have been closer to the pitch but was only ever a cheap option that cannot be extended by adding another tier because the steelwork inside couldn't cope with more weight.

Ah OK, so the digging down is not an option then. Shame.
Yes, I agree JS is a disappointment and was way too far back. As for a second tier, I was meaning rather, the future option of buying up JS buildings, and build the tier behind it (a bit like liverpool did).
Personally, I think redoing the Kop is still the simplest idea for now. It doesn't have to be an expensive job. That's what I meant about a cheaper Spurs job. Similar size as there is plenty of room, and just a large concourse somewhere in the middle. It doesn't need to have an corporate stuff in it. If the roof was removed during the season, and the foundations put behind it are done while the stand is still open (in full or part) it would be far less disruption and perhaps could be done in under a year. The bottom part of it could stay open during much of the construction too, as it's just resting on the old mound. The back of it is on a framework and that could all be done as stage 2.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Really??
When did football supporters become so entitled ?
Get yourself to the match and everything else will sort itself out.

I'm a ST holder for nearly 30 years.
I attend almost every home game. I'm going on Monday night.
I'd attend some away games if it wasn't for the farcical points system.
I stand on the kop because I choose to, but also because I'm short and can't see otherwise! A steeper rake in a more modern stand would help.
It's 2025 - a covered concourse and decent bogs and bars isn't asking for the earth. It may even encourage me to spend money in the ground, which I haven't done for years because I've grown out of drinking crap beer in the pissing rain!
The club has had a lot of my money over a lot of years.

Tell me in what universe any of this makes me "entitled"??

 

[Selly]

It doesn't need to have an corporate stuff in it.

If you want a viable business plan, then unfortunately it almost certainly does.

40 quid a seat for 10k seats nets you 400k a match.

That's 9.2m a season. Assuming we sell out. And assuming the ticket price is 40 quid.

In reality we won't sell out every game, and we won't get 40 quid per ticket. Probably more like 25 on average.

All of a sudden the ROI looks tricky. Unless you can get some corporate boxes in there as well...

 

[Ron_Justice]

For all the lovers of a Graph and in lue of a Poll, I wondered what the sentiment of the thread as a whole would be Yay on Nay to a new Stadium - I actually expect it to 50/50 split. However, Via Grok the results are surprising:

'I’ve reviewed all 57 pages of the forum thread at https://www.s24su.com/forum/threads/stadium-development.92610/, which discusses stadium development plans for Sheffield United’s Bramall Lane. The thread spans several years, with opinions evolving based on proposed expansions, funding concerns, and the club’s performance. Below, I’ll summarize the opinions and present them as a conceptual bar graph based on the prevalence of positive and negative outlooks. Since I can’t generate an actual image without confirmation, I’ll describe it in detail for you.
Summary of Opinions
The thread contains a mix of optimism, skepticism, and pragmatism about stadium development. I’ve categorized the sentiments as follows:

• Positive Outlook: Users who support the idea of expanding or redeveloping Bramall Lane, citing benefits like increased capacity (potentially to 40,000+ seats), modern facilities, improved fan experience, and the club’s long-term growth. Some express excitement about specific plans, like extending the South Stand or Kop, and see it as a sign of ambition, especially if tied to Premier League stability or a World Cup bid.
• Negative Outlook: Users who are doubtful or opposed, often pointing to financial impracticality (costs estimated at £500m+ for a new stadium), lack of demand (e.g., unsold tickets for key matches), or preference for staying at the historic Bramall Lane over moving to a new site. Concerns about the team’s performance taking priority over infrastructure also feature prominently.

After analyzing the thread, I estimate the split based on the frequency and intensity of posts:

• Positive Outlook: Approximately 40% of contributors (enthusiastic about development, hopeful about modernization).
• Negative Outlook: Approximately 60% of contributors (skeptical about feasibility, cost, or necessity).

Conceptual Bar Graph Description
Imagine a simple bar graph with two bars:

• X-Axis: Sentiment (Positive Outlook, Negative Outlook).
• Y-Axis: Percentage of contributors (0% to 100%).
• Positive Outlook Bar: Reaches up to 40%. Colored green, labeled "Positive (40%)".
• Negative Outlook Bar: Reaches up to 60%. Colored red, labeled "Negative (60%)".

The graph would show a clear lean toward negativity, with the "Negative Outlook" bar slightly taller than the "Positive Outlook" bar, reflecting the thread’s overall cautious or critical tone.
Key Themes

• Positive Posts: "A bigger Kop would be amazing for atmosphere," "40,000 capacity could future-proof us," "Everton’s new stadium shows what’s possible—why not us?"
• Negative Posts: "We can’t sell out now, why expand?" "£500m for a new ground is insane when the team needs investment," "Bramall Lane’s charm beats a soulless bowl."

Notes
The percentages are an educated estimate based on the discussion’s flow across 57 pages, as the thread doesn’t provide a poll. Sentiment shifts over time—early posts (circa 2020) are more hopeful, while later ones (2022-2023) grow skeptical as plans stall.'

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Look at the countless teams from smaller clubs than us that have built Whole new stadiums (Rotherham, Donny, Reading, Coventry, Hull, Southampton, Leicester etc) in relative terms their outlay has been no greater than ours would be. They don't have the potential fanbase any where near the size of ours. None have gone out of business, some have won trophy's. All increased their attendances as we did when the family stand was built 13 - 14000 before and 25000 + even during 6 long years in division 1. When I used to listen to Radio Sheffield the 'steady and blinkered' hosts would answer calls for ambition with: you don't want to end up like Leeds, Leicester, Portsmouth, Wigan ... and others that fell on hard times at some point. My answer was always a resounding f##k YES, all those clubs have won major trophies in my lifetime & the memories must never fade. Don't come back with the embarrasing pathetic "we won the 4th Division though".
i don't want to be 86yrs old like me dad still moaning about selling Jones and Birchenall within 3 months.

Sheffield is the Historic home of professsional football, we have a potential fan base of close to a million people, 2 University's with overseas students catching a train to Manchester to watch football instead of their local side, we were the polwer house of football at the end of the 129th Century. I cannot believe in 125 years nobody, not a FUCK1n oner had the vision and love for Sheffield United to deliver.

One last typical little club boll0cks: Jimmy Hagan, hero to all those of a certain era was called to the Chairman's office. "Jimmy lad, ..." Wednesday have offered £5000 for you, what about it???". Hagan loved the Blades and was their best (some say ever) player. He said "no" and the Chairman didn't speak to him for weeks. It's fuckin mindboggling how one cub could have so many bufffoons running a club the size of SUFC for 125 years. Breaks my heart.

Blinkered / steady eddy Vs blind to facts / don't care where the money comes from.

I've done plenty of speculative development myself, risking personal money , and run my own business for 10 years. I understand risk / reward.

The bulk of your post is waffle. Explain how it adds up financially, specifically. How much do you suggest spending, and in rough terms where the specific payback comes.

 

[TaxiBlade]

If you want a viable business plan, then unfortunately it almost certainly does.

40 quid a seat for 10k seats nets you 400k a match.

That's 9.2m a season. Assuming we sell out. And assuming the ticket price is 40 quid.

In reality we won't sell out every game, and we won't get 40 quid per ticket. Probably more like 25 on average.

All of a sudden the ROI looks tricky. Unless you can get some corporate boxes in there as well...

I wouldn't agree that the Kop needs corporate boxes, or even corporate facilities. The South Stand and JS already have this. It just needs to be a functional stand.
It just needs a concourse half way up it (which could be a huge concrete slab for me), with some bar areas and food stands and decent bogs, and maybe a couple of big screens that aren't too expensive these days to get the concourse area better than just purely a pre-match and half-time (especially) too busy. (and would also double if we could attract events like music etc.) - basically meaning not posh facilities, just the space to have stands to sell stuff.
As for the maths, I'd prefer it if they maybe went the whole hog, and have 15k charging the equivalent of £30 or even less. That's already a higher income, with more people buying stuff on the concourse as well.
I saw that the Leeds game is £46. Maybe I read it wrong. I hope so, as I'm coming back to England in 6 weeks, and the thought of paying 46 quid for a match makes my eyes water. That's nearly as much as my monthly rent here (China)! (£56).

 

[Selly]

I wouldn't agree that the Kop needs corporate boxes, or even corporate facilities. The South Stand and JS already have this. It just needs to be a functional stand.
It just needs a concourse half way up it (which could be a huge concrete slab for me), with some bar areas and food stands and decent bogs, and maybe a couple of big screens that aren't too expensive these days to get the concourse area better than just purely a pre-match and half-time (especially) too busy. (and would also double if we could attract events like music etc.) - basically meaning not posh facilities, just the space to have stands to sell stuff.
As for the maths, I'd prefer it if they maybe went the whole hog, and have 15k charging the equivalent of £30 or even less. That's already a higher income, with more people buying stuff on the concourse as well.
I saw that the Leeds game is £46. Maybe I read it wrong. I hope so, as I'm coming back to England in 6 weeks, and the thought of paying 46 quid for a match makes my eyes water. That's nearly as much as my monthly rent here (China)! (£56).

You didn't read it wrong...

 

[TaxiBlade]

Holy crap.
I know the other side were charging that or thereabouts a few years ago on their kop and was shocked, but that is madness.
I might pay that as a one off as I've been abroad for a few years... but no way I can pay that these days!

I'm now not shocked at all that it hasn't sold out if it's on TV. I recall last time I wanted to go to a match, I wanted to sit with my old friends who I haven't seen for years, and that wasn't even an option, so I went for a beer before the game with them, then sat on my own after queuing an hour to get the ticket. So 46 quid for all that hassle aint happening soon.
Maybe I'm just too old! haha
Used to go, pay and stand with friends, or if on own, wander around the kop and see other people I knew.

 

[prince albert]

I'm a ST holder for nearly 30 years.
I attend almost every home game. I'm going on Monday night.
I'd attend some away games if it wasn't for the farcical points system.
I stand on the kop because I choose to, but also because I'm short and can't see otherwise! A steeper rake in a more modern stand would help.
It's 2025 - a covered concourse and decent bogs and bars isn't asking for the earth. It may even encourage me to spend money in the ground, which I haven't done for years because I've grown out of drinking crap beer in the pissing rain!
The club has had a lot of my money over a lot of years.

Tell me in what universe any of this makes me "entitled"??

As an outsider to this discussion I'd say the bit where you say you'd attend some away games if it wasn't for the farcical points system.
No matter what system we use whether it's accumulated points or a rolling system you have to attend the less attractive fixtures to gain the points required to attend the more attractive fixtures.

 

[LONDON_BLADE]

I think people are missing the point a bit when discussing 'ROI' for any stand or stadium upgrade.
Any improvement to BL would increase the material value of the club. Say the owners built a new Kop stand, kept the club for 10 years, then sold it on, they'd get a cumulative ROI of that investment in the sale and some return during those 10 years - all very dependent on its facilities.
Of course all of this is intrinsically linked to the performance of the club on the field, do well, get more returns quicker.

Also, why scale it over 25 years... the current kop, for example, has been in-situ since what, '91? Imagine a flagship state of the replacement. The South, '74? A great stand for its time, and its stood the test of time.

Used the Kop as an example, we need a total stadium re-plan for incremental improvements and expansion. Stand still and we go backwards - just glance (sadden your eyes) over to S6!

 

[Snowflake]

I don’t understand why Sheffield folk are so terrified of change & progress. Any new idea is condemned before it has a chance. Anything that does happen is criticised. There is no vision & no sense of optimism. The parochialism is off the scale, and so is the cynicism. I think it’s maybe a self confidence issue.

Change and progress are essential but in the right order. New grounds for Derby, Reading and others have not produced success as the rest of the infrastructure was not in place.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Change and progress are essential but in the right order. New grounds for Derby, Reading and others have not produced success as the rest of the infrastructure was not in place.

Which will be why we are prioritising the new training ground and, it seems, scouting & recruitment and hopefully also medical, conditioning and performance. We are miles behind on all of those. But after that the focus needs to be on the ground. If we stand still we will go backwards.

 

[JohnDenver]

Change and progress are essential but in the right order. New grounds for Derby, Reading and others have not produced success as the rest of the infrastructure was not in place.

Derby had a really good spell in the prem in the late 90s. Reading in the mid noughties.

Ground development helps, but it mostly just represents a correlation with wider investment in a club. Eventually that ends.

 

[Snowflake]

Which will be why we are prioritising the new training ground and, it seems, scouting & recruitment and hopefully also medical, conditioning and performance. We are miles behind on all of those. But after that the focus needs to be on the ground. If we stand still we will go backwards.

I agree totally. Hopefully our new owners are similarly switched on !

 

[JJBlade]

The pitch size does not meet UEFA standards which means to upgrade the lane the Kop has to be moved further towards Shoreham st to allow the pitch to be longer. Best way to do it is a rebuild of the Kop far enough back to allow a future rebuild of the lower lane end making that stand one tier only allowing a split for away fans top to bottom. Any digging down could hit the natural water table, John st stand should have been closer to the pitch but was only ever a cheap option that cannot be extended by adding another tier because the steelwork inside couldn't cope with more weight.

Are we going to find out that the South Stand is built with RAC ?
It's around the right timescale and if RAC has a 50 year lifespan it's not going to be long before work is required

 

[JJBlade]

Chelsea put the rest of the infrastructure in place first. It has to be the right way forward. Simply building a bigger ground without the rest is a disaster.

Yes
We could build a bigger stadium and then have a loyalty points system to attract an extra 15,000 fans that have ZERO LOYALTY POINTS

That would be an excellent idea when we can't fill our stadium with anything other than season ticket holders and away fans because nobody else has got any LOYALTY POINTS

 

[Sheffsteel]

This is the kind of argument the Pigs put forward to suggest they should be considered bigger than they are.

This is the kind of argument the Pigs put forward to suggest they should be considered bigger than they are.

I’m quoting actual facts not opinion.

We are historically bigger but both those clubs are currently bigger and have been this century (last 25 years)
The same as Wednesday are historically slightly bigger than us but we are currently (based in this century) slightly bigger than them.

I’d say recent history (say last 20 or 30 years) is more important….than what happened 100 years ago.

 

[CrookesBlade]

All this chat is moot as I’ve heard somebody has applied to give the Kop bogs grade 2 listed status, although the club will need to remove the roof first.