So , the Desso pitch ...... is it actually worth it >

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metalblade said:
Players adapt to any surface but yes pretty passing football is easier on a good surface, I take it that you would be happy to see us lose as long as we played tippy tappy football ?
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No I ultimately want to see us winning games of football.

As you say players generally adapt the any playing surface but i'd prefer to give our team the best chance possible to play to their strengths. I believe that the club wanted to move away from the 'hoof ball' tag that we have been assigned in the past and the long term planning that came with the desso was a part of this. The team that we have at the moment are probably capable of winning on any surface, however, as a very good footballing team we play better on a better surface.

The link below is from Oldham last season. According to Wilder we didn't adapt to the playing surface, we were brought down to Oldham's level and we were forced to hoof it all game. I'm assuming you didn't mind the hoof though and were happy with getting a 'good' point away from home?

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/spo...o-adapt-to-bare-pitch-admits-wilder-1-8459199
 

LJBlade said:
Would we have signed JOC and Wright at that time? Considering we had an obviously incompetent manager in charge.
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So, you agree. We had incompetence running the team and shit players. And no new pitch would suddenly sprinkle fairy dust onto that and make them great players, like Wilder has,

Anyway, you still didn't answer the question, I'll word it slightly differently to help you. Do you think spending £1m on players that season would have resulted in us getting promoted?
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I have answered it, but just for you: Yes. I think spending cash on the central defence weaknesses would have at least stopped the fuck ups like Swindon at home in the playoffs in the following season. We shipped two avoidable goals at home which did us no favours at all. Lets put it this way - I wouldn't expect Wilder's team to make those mistakes. Put simply, because we are fairly decent at the back now, thanks to decent investment and a good manager. It has nowt to do with the pitch.

The 'long term thinking' that I'm talking about is that a lot of other clubs are now coming around to the benefits of a Desso. Is it a coincidence that more and more clubs are installing them?
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Well, my 'longer term thinking' differs from yours. I'd rather Sheffield United be in the position they are now, Desso or not, than languishing in eleventh place in Div One with a world class playing surface. Call me picky.

I've re-read it, what's your point? You are aware that a team can play poorly and still win aren't you? Out of the games that you mention which ones do you think we played particularly well in?
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If we win, we have played well. I don't really care about the semantics.

pommpey
 
LJBlade said:
No I ultimately want to see us winning games of football.

As you say players generally adapt the any playing surface but i'd prefer to give our team the best chance possible to play to their strengths. I believe that the club wanted to move away from the 'hoof ball' tag that we have been assigned in the past and the long term planning that came with the desso was a part of this. The team that we have at the moment are probably capable of winning on any surface, however, as a very good footballing team we play better on a better surface.

The link below is from Oldham last season. According to Wilder we didn't adapt to the playing surface, we were brought down to Oldham's level and we were forced to hoof it all game. I'm assuming you didn't mind the hoof though and were happy with getting a 'good' point away from home?

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/spo...o-adapt-to-bare-pitch-admits-wilder-1-8459199
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How do you account for the world beaters at S6 being so shit this season don't they also have a Desso ?
 
For all you expert horticulturists, what is the price difference between an ordinary new pitch (Which was undoubtedly needed) and the Desso version? Is it two centre halves or just the one?
 
pommpey said:
So, you agree. We had incompetence running the team and shit players. And no new pitch would suddenly sprinkle fairy dust onto that and make them great players, like Wilder has,



I have answered it, but just for you: Yes. I think spending cash on the central defence weaknesses would have at least stopped the fuck ups like Swindon at home in the playoffs in the following season. We shipped two avoidable goals at home which did us no favours at all. Lets put it this way - I wouldn't expect Wilder's team to make those mistakes. Put simply, because we are fairly decent at the back now, thanks to decent investment and a good manager. It has nowt to do with the pitch.



Well, my 'longer term thinking' differs from yours. I'd rather Sheffield United be in the position they are now, Desso or not, than languishing in eleventh place in Div One with a world class playing surface. Call me picky.



If we win, we have played well. I don't really care about the semantics.

pommpey
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So you'd be happy for us to go back to the hoof ball days then as all that matters is the result?

Spending £1m on players would have seen us definitely promoted?

The long term thinking by the club (in getting the Desso) is now coming to fruition. It's allowing Wilder's team to play the their strengths.

As I said previously the fact of the matter is that we paid for the Desso instead of getting extra players in and we are in the position we are in today. If you can convince me that not having a Desso and spending the extra money on players would have got us here as well then I'll gladly agree with you.
 
metalblade said:
How do you account for the world beaters at S6 being so shit this season don't they also have a Desso ?
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Because they aren't 'world beaters' they are a terrible team. Have I claimed anywhere that a Desso will automatically mean a poor team are good?

What I did say is that a good playing surface will play to the strengths of a good passing team. We are a good passing team, we wouldn't be if we played on a quagmire every week.
 
LJBlade said:
Because they aren't 'world beaters' they are a terrible team. Have I claimed anywhere that a Desso will automatically mean a poor team are good?

What I did say is that a good playing surface will play to the strengths of a good passing team. We are a good passing team, we wouldn't be if we played on a quagmire every week.
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We played on 21 non Desso pitches last season I think that fucks your argument up.
 
LJBlade said:
So you'd be happy for us to go back to the hoof ball days then as all that matters is the result?
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Yeah. It's all about the winning for me. We can play attractive football, boring football, negative football and even great football, but if we lose (as we did back then) then we won't get promoted. And we lost. On the Desso. And strangely, we finished eleventh, and won away on shit pitches. What am I seeing here that you aren't?

Spending £1m on players would have seen us definitely promoted?
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Well, spnding £1m on a new pitch didn't, did it? What is more likely to stop us giving games away? Better defenders, or a new pitch?

The long term thinking by the club (in getting the Desso) is now coming to fruition. It's allowing Wilder's team to play the their strengths.
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Ah. Great non sequitur argument there. But wrong. The Desso has fuck all to do with Wilder and the current teams' situation. Why so? Okay. Norwich at home. Bolton at home. Fulham at home. Bristol City at home. If that is adding to Wilder's teams playing to their strengths, then show me your working out, please.

As I said previously the fact of the matter is that we paid for the Desso instead of getting extra players in and we are in the position we are in today. If you can convince me that not having a Desso and spending the extra money on players would have got us here as well then I'll gladly agree with you.
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Because having the pitch isn't the golden bullet we needed. After wasting countless millions on appointing gash managers, sacking them, selling players and acquiring shit replacements and basically treating the fanbase like a bunch of cunts by giving us jam tomorrow statements we have struck lucky with Wilder who has cleared out the dross, made some canny acquisitions and started playing us as a proper battling unit who last season were difficult to beat and this season aren't doing too bad either. And last season we did it home and away, on Desso and off. That's why.

pommpey
 
metalblade said:
Are you just acting dumb ?
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My argument is that having a Desso allows us to play to our strengths (i.e. passing football). It's true that we played quite a few games last season on a non Desso pitch and we won many of those games because ultimately we were a better team that the opposition. However, as shown by the Oldham game we were often forced to play a game that wasn't best suited to us which sometimes resulted in us not winning.

Can you tell me how many times last season, whilst playing at home, we were forced to play in a way which wasn't best suited to our strengths because of the condition of the pitch? Do you agree that playing to our strengths will give us a better chance of winning?
 
If only that clown McCabe had known that you can buy these, we'd have been in the Champions League by now. scotts-grass-seed-18012a1-64_1000.jpg scotts-grass-seed-18012a1-64_1000.jpg
 
pommpey said:
Yeah. It's all about the winning for me. We can play attractive football, boring football, negative football and even great football, but if we lose (as we did back then) then we won't get promoted. And we lost. On the Desso. And strangely, we finished eleventh, and won away on shit pitches. What am I seeing here that you aren't?



Well, spnding £1m on a new pitch didn't, did it? What is more likely to stop us giving games away? Better defenders, or a new pitch?



Ah. Great non sequitur argument there. But wrong. The Desso has fuck all to do with Wilder and the current teams' situation. Why so? Okay. Norwich at home. Bolton at home. Fulham at home. Bristol City at home. If that is adding to Wilder's teams playing to their strengths, then show me your working out, please.



Because having the pitch isn't the golden bullet we needed. After wasting countless millions on appointing gash managers, sacking them, selling players and acquiring shit replacements and basically treating the fanbase like a bunch of cunts by giving us jam tomorrow statements we have struck lucky with Wilder who has cleared out the dross, made some canny acquisitions and started playing us as a proper battling unit who last season were difficult to beat and this season aren't doing too bad either. And last season we did it home and away, on Desso and off. That's why.

pommpey
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Well I suppose that if you don't actually watch the team play the result really is all that matters.

We did spend £1m on a new pitch and we got promoted last season, it took a few seasons to put together a team who are best suited to that type of pitch but there's that long term thinking I mentioned earlier. Now, if you can provide definitive proof that signing two defenders for £0.5m in 2015 would have resulted in us being promoted that season I will gladly agree with you.

You do realise that even playing to your strengths can sometimes still result in losing a game? I'm not sure you understand how football works.

Facts are facts. We paid for the Desso and we are where we are. Playing nice football and winning the majority of our games. Show me how those two defenders would have got us to this position and I'll agree.
 
LJBlade said:
Well I suppose that if you don't actually watch the team play the result really is all that matters.

We did spend £1m on a new pitch and we got promoted last season, it took a few seasons to put together a team who are best suited to that type of pitch but there's that long term thinking I mentioned earlier. Now, if you can provide definitive proof that signing two defenders for £0.5m in 2015 would have resulted in us being promoted that season I will gladly agree with you.

You do realise that even playing to your strengths can sometimes still result in losing a game? I'm not sure you understand how football works.

Facts are facts. We paid for the Desso and we are where we are. Playing nice football and winning the majority of our games. Show me how those two defenders would have got us to this position and I'll agree.
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If you had just that extra million to spend on players you have to take wages into account. So probably £300k - £350k each.
 
Did I miss the press conference that said our transfer dealings were hampered by the installation of the desso? I dont think Nigel(s) were ever short of a bob or two in any transfer windows......
 

Sean Thornton said:
If you had just that extra million to spend on players you have to take wages into account. So probably £300k - £350k each.
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Excellent point.

Have these two, £300k central defenders, who were going to guarantee us promotion ever been identified on here? I can't be bothered to read back through the whole thread but it would be interesting to know who they are/were.
 
I reckon some shovels need confiscating on this thread before there's a severe outbreak of vertigo in S24SU land
 
LJBlade said:
Excellent point.

Have these two, £300k central defenders, who were going to guarantee us promotion ever been identified on here? I can't be bothered to read back through the whole thread but it would be interesting to know who they are/were.
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Of course they haven't.
 
pommpey said:
Good comeback. Really. No, great comeback.

Hope you're okay this morning. I'll mail you some E&D leaflets if you want.

pommpey
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Not quite sure what E&D leaflets have to do with anything...you being ironic again?
 
Bert said:
For all you expert horticulturists, what is the price difference between an ordinary new pitch (Which was undoubtedly needed) and the Desso version? Is it two centre halves or just the one?
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My maths tells me the difference is one Mark Morris and half a Jay McEveley.
 
LJBlade said:
Well I suppose that if you don't actually watch the team play the result really is all that matters.
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YAY! 'You don't go to games' trigger-point.

Tell you what. Ask ST holders if 'the result matters'. Ask them if, when coming away from games, we'd been beaten by a team playing shit and we'd played like Barcelona for every game they'd been to if that is 'all that matters'. You do understand competitive sport, don't you>

We did spend £1m on a new pitch and we got promoted last season, it took a few seasons to put together a team who are best suited to that type of pitch but there's that long term thinking I mentioned earlier.
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Hang on. So Wilder formed that team specifically for the Desso? What cock-a-mamy argument are you putting forward here? If you are still intent on believing this, then explain why we won away last season as well - Swindon, Northampton, Peterborough and (wait for it) Shrewsbury Town, whose donkey field sparked this discussion off, once again. Fuck me, the players must have really struggled away from Wilder's chosen playing surface.

Now, if you can provide definitive proof that signing two defenders for £0.5m in 2015 would have resulted in us being promoted that season I will gladly agree with you.
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No, because it is my opinion. But, I'll counter that by saying we shipped a lot of goals in that season, many of them because our back four was utterly shit. I'd say buying at least one, if not two CDs would have made that a lot better. Not convinced? Okay. Have we got the same defence now, than we did then? How many goals did we concede? How many last season? QED.

You do realise that even playing to your strengths can sometimes still result in losing a game? I'm not sure you understand how football works.
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So, you play to strengths and lose a game? Looks like your strengths are actually your weaknesses, then. You do understand tactics and management, don't you? Thank fuck you are not in the military.

Facts are facts. We paid for the Desso and we are where we are. Playing nice football and winning the majority of our games. Show me how those two defenders would have got us to this position and I'll agree.
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That's like saying 'take a picture of the other side of the moon, but don't use a spacecraft', isn't it? Okay. compare our backline past season and our backline 2015-16. Now compare goals conceded. Okay, here you are: its 47 versus 59. We finished champions last season and 11th in the previous with 66 points. Now some may say that's because of the pitch, but we played on the same pitch during both seasons. I'd say its because Wilder changed the backline, kicked out the dross and acquired better players and had us playing better football, both at home (on the Desso) and away (like Shrewsbury).

Enough for you? Or do you now need a JCB?

pommpey
 
Ghostshark said:
Not quite sure what E&D leaflets have to do with anything...you being ironic again?
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No love. It's just in case you cite 'bullying' (which you clearly know fuck all about) again.

pommpey
 
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