So , the Desso pitch ...... is it actually worth it >

[pommpey]

View attachment 35372 Sweet Lordy Jesus this shit again.
Grow up you ****s

When we relayed the pitch we built a fecking big bore hole the size of the Eiffel tower to get free water instead of paying money to water company saving hundreds of thousands per year.

Now where's the ignore thread and children button?

Why not 'ignore' then, or not click on it?

pommpey

 

[metalblade]

Ooooo page 11. I don't suppose any one has explained why the Desso didn't turn Adkins team into 100pt League One champions, nah thought not.

 

[blade too long]

Look. I know it's kinda hard for you without Sean to run his finger under every w ... o ... r ... d and spell it out, but just for you:

1. We buy a pitch. It costs £1.xm (depending on who you get the price from)
2. Our back four that season was all over the shop, with one proper central defender (who was gash) and the other places filled in my people out of position
3. We sold our previous season's top goalscorer and main attacking threat at the first shout
4. We didn't buy any credible strength in depth
5. We did get Woolford though, so, hey-ho
6. We continued to ship goals and finished in a remarkably low position, losing eight games at home on the new pitch
7. The football we played was hardly 'fast attacking'. more, 'shit, boring'
8. Our injury count was unaffected

There's my argument. And the argument is based upon countering your fanciful one that McCabe's investment was 'value for money'

No mention of Duffy.

Hope this helps

pommpey

points 3 to 7 are covered by having Adkins being in charge
since employing Wilder hes made good use of it, why , because hes a decent manager ,
wednesdays had desso but a numpty in charge and they still cant play football

a pitch is only a good pitch if theres a decent set of players

you fail to explain how we improved so much without your only remedy throwing money at the squad
Wilder spent less than Adkins
but praises the pitch at every opportunity
because they can play attractive fooball on it

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yes but just before you leave us,Desso yes or no?

Flynn, better than Duffy?

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Ooooo page 11. I don't suppose any one has explained why the Desso didn't turn Adkins team into 100pt League One champions, nah thought not.

Because Nigel Adkins was a terrible manager for Sheffield United,the new playing surface was requested by Nigel Clough,you must have seen hundreds of games played at the Lane on what at times was a terrible surface,this new pitch is an improvement on what we had previously is it not?.We could have given Adkins the Desso money,would you have trusted him to have spent it wisely?
Then along comes a proper manager,allied to a decent playing surface,bingo,promotion

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Flynn, better than Duffy?

Absolutely,

 

[metalblade]

Because Nigel Adkins was a terrible manager for Sheffield United,the new playing surface was requested by Nigel Clough,you must have seen hundreds of games played at the Lane on what at times was a terrible surface,this new pitch is an improvement on what we had previously is it not?.We could have given Adkins the Desso money,would you have trusted him to have spent it wisely?
Then along comes a proper manager,allied to a decent playing surface,bingo,promotion

What about the 21 away games played on non Desso pitches last season? Adkins terrible manager yes but you forget we had shit players too, Hammond, Sammon and the lamentable Woolford (Murphy's replacement) to name a few. The Desso didn't make those twats any better.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

What about the 21 away games played on non Desso pitches last season? Adkins terrible manager yes but you forget we had shit players too, Hammond, Sammon and the lamentable Woolford (Murphy's replacement) to name a few. The Desso didn't make those twats any better.

All players signed by Adkins,and you are saying we should have given the bloke more money to spend,rather than sorting out a problem that needed addressing for decades

 

[Eddiecolquhounsleg]

I long since stopped trying to understand football finances, but in local and national governments budgets are allocated to certain departments. Money is allocated to education, NHS, defence etc and these budgets cannot be switched. You get what you get and have to work with it.

Is that not the same in football? The decision to install the Desso would have been taken several years ago and a budget (500k/1m) would have been assigned to it. I believe once we made the decision we had to wait about two years for it to be installed.

Unfortunately, by the time we got round to the pitch this coincided with us having the worst manager in living memory and the playing side was an absolute mess. Good players had to be sold and we were left with the crumbs.

My point is, is that if there is a budget for ground maintainance and another for playing staff, then can these be switched from one to the other as this seems to be the crux of this argument?

 

[metalblade]

All players signed by Adkins,and you are saying we should have given the bloke more money to spend,rather than sorting out a problem that needed addressing for decades

No you are saying that, let's go back a bit further to the season before the one we ended by going into the play off without any centre backs which was more urgent decent players or decent pitch, i'd say players a nice new pitch should help all players no matter how good they are it just so happened all ours were shit and got even more shit under Adkins.

Then along comes a proper manager,allied to a decent playing surface,bingo,promotion

Again you are forgetting players or are you saying Wilder would have still managed to get 100pts out of the duffers we had playing for us the previous season?

 

[Bert]

No you are saying that, let's go back a bit further to the season before the one we ended by going into the play off without any centre backs which was more urgent decent players or decent pitch, i'd say players a nice new pitch should help all players no matter how good they are it just so happened all ours were shit and got even more shit under Adkins.

Again you are forgetting players or are you saying Wilder would have still managed to get 100pts out of the duffers we had playing for us the previous season?

You can't sign new players just before the play offs.

 

[metalblade]

You can't sign new players just before the play offs.

Did anyone say to Bert that they could ................. back in your box.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

No you are saying that, let's go back a bit further to the season before the one we ended by going into the play off without any centre backs which was more urgent decent players or decent pitch, i'd say players a nice new pitch should help all players no matter how good they are it just so happened all ours were shit and got even more shit under Adkins.

Again you are forgetting players or are you saying Wilder would have still managed to get 100pts out of the duffers we had playing for us the previous season?

The season you refer to ,which was under Nigel Clough,we didn't have a Desso,so you cannot blame the new pitch for us having no centre backs,that was down to the manager at the time

That's why I said allied to in my post,because with those duffers and the Desso we would have been relegated had he remained in charge,although he did resurrect the careers of a few Duffers,Coutts,/Freeman/Bash,Wilder is brilliant but not to the extent that he could get anything out of the garbage you name

 

[Bladeloyal]

All I'll say is what a wonderful pitch , some would prefer Coventry's though

 

[raul]

Come on Top Cat

 

[Bert]

Did anyone say to Bert that they could ................. back in your box.

It's all that wicked bastard McCabe's fault.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

It's all that wicked bastard McCabe's fault.

I think that's the top and bottom of it,it's another way to have a pop at him

 

[Harrisblade]

I long since stopped trying to understand football finances, but in local and national governments budgets are allocated to certain departments. Money is allocated to education, NHS, defence etc and these budgets cannot be switched. You get what you get and have to work with it.

Is that not the same in football? The decision to install the Desso would have been taken several years ago and a budget (500k/1m) would have been assigned to it. I believe once we made the decision we had to wait about two years for it to be installed.

Unfortunately, by the time we got round to the pitch this coincided with us having the worst manager in living memory and the playing side was an absolute mess. Good players had to be sold and we were left with the crumbs.

My point is, is that if there is a budget for ground maintainance and another for playing staff, then can these be switched from one to the other as this seems to be the crux of this argument?

I'm afraid that despite the obvious common-sense inherent in your post, it must be reported to the Thread Police for suggesting that we are able to discuss an issue in any way but a "YES" or "NO" argument.
Anything but a binary argument is simply too complicated

 

[Tunstall Fred]

I'm afraid that despite the obvious common-sense inherent in your post, it must be reported to the Thread Police for suggesting that we are able to discuss an issue in any way but a "YES" or "NO" argument.
Anything but a binary argument is simply too complicated

Let's have a poll,that will settle the argument once and for all(obviously I know it won't)

 

[LJBlade]

No. And my suggestion is that the million or so spent on the pitch (from the FA Cup run, which ST reliably assures me where the cash came from) could have better been spent on stopping the problems we faced at the back. The results bear me out on that,



I'll put to you: McEverley (a left back), Collins, Brayford (a right back), Basham (a midfielder).



And I am not denying that but ... we also won away that season at Peterborough, Scunthorpe, Colchester and fucking hell, Shrewsbury (whose dogshit pitch amongst the others prompted this little discussion). Shrewsbury miraculously beat us on our own wonder surface.

How come we played so well on their pitches?

pommpey

You can put to me any list of players you like you've still not answered the question. Would signing 2 defenders for £0.5m each during that season have got us to where we are today?

It is my opinion that spending £1m on players during that season would have been wasted money as £1m worth of players (whether that is spent one player, two or several) would have made very little difference to how poor we were. Spending the money on the pitch (i.e. long term thinking) was actually of better benefit. Is it a coincidence that a lot of teams are now spending money on a Desso?

Did we play so well on their pitches? Winning the game doesn't mean we played particularly well.

 

[metalblade]

The season you refer to ,which was under Nigel Clough,we didn't have a Desso,so you cannot blame the new pitch for us having no centre backs,that was down to the manager at the time

That's why I said allied to in my post,because with those duffers and the Desso we would have been relegated had he remained in charge,although he did resurrect the careers of a few Duffers,Coutts,/Freeman/Bash,Wilder is brilliant but not to the extent that he could get anything out of the garbage you name

So what you are saying is we needed some centre backs at the end of Clough's reign yes? we still needed them when Adkins took over but he had to make do with McEverley who he made captain and Collins who Clough couldn't get rid of. It really does come down to players whatever the surface they play on dont forget the only other team in League one with a Desso was Bolton who played hoof the only other stadium with anything like a Desso was The Ricoh arena and err ummm Coventry were relegated well before the end of the season. PLAYERS

 

[pommpey]

You can put to me any list of players you like you've still not answered the question. Would signing 2 defenders for £0.5m each during that season have got us to where we are today?

So, sticking with the four out-of-position make-dos and allowing opposition attackers to have a birthday against us was okay with you, then? Rather than investing in say, JO'C and Wright at that time? You think that if we still had McEveley in the back four today we'd be where we are?

It is my opinion that spending £1m on players during that season would have been wasted money as £1m worth of players (whether that is spent one player, two or several) would have made very little difference to how poor we were.

I disagree

Spending the money on the pitch (i.e. long term thinking) was actually of better benefit. Is it a coincidence that a lot of teams are now spending money on a Desso?

No better 'long term thinking' than stopping us leaking goals and getting promoted. But if you think a new pitch is the way to get that, then fine.

Did we play so well on their pitches? Winning the game doesn't mean we played particularly well.

Hah. Just re-read what you have put there, yeah?

pommpey

 

[Tunstall Fred]

So what you are saying is we needed some centre backs at the end of Clough's reign yes? we still needed them when Adkins took over but he had to make do with McEverley who he made captain and Collins who Clough couldn't get rid of. It really does come down to players whatever the surface they play on dont forget the only other team in League one with a Desso was Bolton who played hoof the only other stadium with anything like a Desso was The Ricoh arena and err ummm Coventry were relegated well before the end of the season. PLAYERS

But the money at the end of the Clough season had already been allocated to the new pitch,we had signed a contract to have it installed,we couldn't rip that up and say,sorry we need 2 centre halfs

I take it you are in favour of the Desso nowadays?

 

[LJBlade]

So what you are saying is we needed some centre backs at the end of Clough's reign yes? we still needed them when Adkins took over but he had to make do with McEverley who he made captain and Collins who Clough couldn't get rid of. It really does come down to players whatever the surface they play on dont forget the only other team in League one with a Desso was Bolton who played hoof the only other stadium with anything like a Desso was The Ricoh arena and err ummm Coventry were relegated well before the end of the season. PLAYERS

The team we have at the moment are capable of playing some very good football, i'm sure you'll agree. Do you think they could play the same good football on a pitch like the one that Shrewsbury and West Ham had to play on yesterday? I'm not asking if you think the team could still win on that sort of pitch, i'm asking if you think the football would be as good.

 

[pommpey]

The team we have at the moment are capable of playing some very good football, i'm sure you'll agree. Do you think they could play the same good football on a pitch like the one that Shrewsbury and West Ham had to play on yesterday? I'm not asking if you think the team could still win on that sort of pitch, i'm asking if you think the football would be as good.

Our team of duffers won there in 2015-16.

They lost at home on the Desso

Does that answer any of your questions? I mean, they might not have played well at Shrewsbury.

But they won.

Strange, that.

pommpey

 

[LJBlade]

So, sticking with the four out-of-position make-dos and allowing opposition attackers to have a birthday against us was okay with you, then? Rather than investing in say, JO'C and Wright at that time? You think that if we still had McEveley in the back four today we'd be where we are?



I disagree

Spending the money on the pitch (i.e. long term thinking) was actually of better benefit. Is it a coincidence that a lot of teams are now spending money on a Desso?[/quote]

No better 'long term thinking' than stopping us leaking goals and getting promoted. But if you think a new pitch is the way to get that, then fine.



Hah. Just re-read what you have put there, yeah?

pommpey[/QUOTE]

Would we have signed JOC and Wright at that time? Considering we had an obviously incompetent manager in charge. Anyway, you still didn't answer the question, I'll word it slightly differently to help you. Do you think spending £1m on players that season would have resulted in us getting promoted?

The 'long term thinking' that I'm talking about is that a lot of other clubs are now coming around to the benefits of a Desso. Is it a coincidence that more and more clubs are installing them?

I've re-read it, what's your point? You are aware that a team can play poorly and still win aren't you? Out of the games that you mention which ones do you think we played particularly well in?

 

[LJBlade]

Our team of duffers won there in 2015-16.

They lost at home on the Desso

Does that answer any of your questions? I mean, they might not have played well at Shrewsbury.

But they won.

Strange, that.

pommpey

Have another read through what I actually asked and then get back to me.

 

[metalblade]

But the money at the end of the Clough season had already been allocated to the new pitch,we had signed a contract to have it installed,we couldn't rip that up and say,sorry we need 2 centre halfs

I take it you are in favour of the Desso nowadays?

You mean the pitch that was paid for by the cup runs in Clough's season. The pitch that was going to turn McEverley and Collins into Premiership quality players LOL
btw I was always in favour of a Desso but at the time we were in desperate need of defenders you can't really deny that despite us paying nearly £2m for a fookin right back, still we had to take his understudy Freeman as part of the deal, every cloud ........... you know the rest.

 

[metalblade]

The team we have at the moment are capable of playing some very good football, i'm sure you'll agree. Do you think they could play the same good football on a pitch like the one that Shrewsbury and West Ham had to play on yesterday? I'm not asking if you think the team could still win on that sort of pitch, i'm asking if you think the football would be as good.

Players adapt to any surface but yes pretty passing football is easier on a good surface, I take it that you would be happy to see us lose as long as we played tippy tappy football ?

 

[Sean Thornton]

You mean the pitch that was paid for by the cup runs in Clough's season. The pitch that was going to turn McEverley and Collins into Premiership quality players LOL
btw I was always in favour of a Desso but at the time we were in desperate need of defenders you can't really deny that despite us paying nearly £2m for a fookin right back, still we had to take his understudy Freeman as part of the deal, every cloud ........... you know the rest.

"You mean the pitch that was paid for by the cup runs in Clough's season"

Irrespective of whether Desso was a good spend at the time, I'm sure (almost) everyone agrees with your statement that the money came from the cup runs - as announced - and not player sales.