SJ

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Flatulent_Bob said:
I’m not annoyed, as I’ve said several times it’s a just concern if that is his primary reason for being interested. Especially when fed in with the amount of investment I think he’s going to need in the first team and wider squad. I see him as high risk, high reward option.
I still find it odd that his team haven’t put anything out to counter and show him in a more rounded light, if it’s not coming from them.
I still suspect it is.
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you seem 100% confident that money is sjs only concern bob but nobody can be sure of that and if were serious about trying to get back up within 2 seasons we will have to pay the going rate for a top manager go down the cheap route with hecky tindall or appleton and i fear we would be a championship club or even worse for the next few years still jokanovic as best option for me utb fto
 
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ancientblade said:
you seem 100% confident that money is sjs only concern bob but nobody can be sure of that and if were serious about trying to get back up within 2 seasons we will have to pay the going rate for a top manager go down the cheap route with hecky tindall or appleton and i fear we would be a championship club or even worse for the next few years still jokanovic as best option for me utb fto
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I have it as a serious concern yes and I see the approach as risking our medium and long term future but if he gets the job I hope you are right.
Those getting all pissy with me not being fully onboard forget I’ll be paying a small fortune to watch his side next season so of course I’m wanting great winning football.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I have it as a serious concern yes and I see the approach as risking our medium and long term future but if he gets the job I hope you are right.
Those getting all pissy with me not being fully onboard forget I’ll be paying a small fortune to watch his side next season so of course I’m wanting great winning football.
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Can you go through it again one more time?
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I have it as a serious concern yes and I see the approach as risking our medium and long term future but if he gets the job I hope you are right.
Those getting all pissy with me not being fully onboard forget I’ll be paying a small fortune to watch his side next season so of course I’m wanting great winning football.
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your not gonna get that with hecky tindall appleton or robinson in any case im pretty sure the board have decided were gonna have a foreign manager so its blessin clemente or jokanovic take your pick
 
ancientblade said:
your not gonna get that with hecky tindall appleton or robinson in any case im pretty sure the board have decided were gonna have a foreign manager so its blessin clemente or jokanovic take your pick
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Clement. We can’t get Blessin.
 
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S40BLADE said:
Its all good talking about this in that but im pretty sure no one has mentioned the inner workings of work permits yet.
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Don't need to. All sorted.
 
ancientblade said:
whats clement done in the english game ?
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I don’t see the relevance in that argument. What had any successful European coach done before coming here?
What had Wilder done in the Championship before us? For that matter what had Slav done before Watford?
If that’s the argument then you may as well appoint Warnock.
Clement has built 2 different titles winning sides in the past 3 seasons, defending the title this season. All at a comparable level playing attractive attacking football. If we’re talking levels and standing in the game Clement is the more ambitious appointment.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don’t see the relevance in that argument. What had any successful European coach done before coming here?
What had Wilder done in the Championship before us? For that matter what had Slav done before Watford?
If that’s the argument then you may as well appoint Warnock.
Clement has built 2 different titles winning sides in the past 3 seasons, defending the title this season. All at a comparable level playing attractive attacking football. If we’re talking levels and standing in the game Clement is the more ambitious appointment.
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we will agree to disagree bob jokanovic for me but all about opinions lets hope whoever we get we see more attack minded football at the lane the last 12 months have been dire at the lane
 

Flatulent_Bob said:
I don’t see the relevance in that argument. What had any successful European coach done before coming here?
What had Wilder done in the Championship before us? For that matter what had Slav done before Watford?
If that’s the argument then you may as well appoint Warnock.
Clement has built 2 different titles winning sides in the past 3 seasons, defending the title this season. All at a comparable level playing attractive attacking football. If we’re talking levels and standing in the game Clement is the more ambitious appointment.
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But haven't both Genk and Brugge (especially) been 'big' clubs in Belgian Football for a number of years and been successful before Clement?
Maybe coming to a struggling club like us could be more of a challenge to him than it would be to SJ with his 2 seasons experience of working in the Championship with 'lesser' clubs?
 
Harrisblade said:
But haven't both Genk and Brugge (especially) been 'big' clubs in Belgian Football for a number of years and been successful before Clement?
Maybe coming to a struggling club like us could be more of a challenge to him than it would be to SJ with his 2 seasons experience of working in the Championship with 'lesser' clubs?
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Genk had won the league three times in their history before he was appointed and they hadn’t played in the champions league for 8 years prior to him getting the job.

Bruges are a huge historic club in Belgium but they’d only won the league 4 times in the past 20 years before his appointment. He’s won it back to back in the two seasons he’s been there.

Out of interest do you see us as more of a struggling club than Watford and Fulham were when SJ was appointed? They both had very competitive budgets so I’m not sure I see his experience with a “struggling” side, whereas I see both with Clement. Turning around an out of form club with huge expectations and immediate demands for success.
 
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Flatulent_Bob said:
Genk had won the league three times in their history before he was appointed and they hadn’t played in the champions league for 8 years prior to him getting the job.

Bruges are a huge historic club in Belgium but they’d only won the league 4 times in the past 20 years before his appointment. He’s won it back to back in the two seasons he’s been there.

Out of interest do you see us as more of a struggling club than Watford and Fulham were when SJ was appointed? They both had very competitive budgets so I’m not sure I see his experience with a “struggling” side, whereas I see both with Clement. Turning around an out of form club with huge expectations and immediate demands for success.
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To be fair I wouldn't mind either of them.
I was just a bit pissed about your assumption that SJ was some sort of inferior mercenary because 'high salary' had crept into the discussion even though it was made out to be a problem by the media.
Hopefully either manager will be able to find quality players in market places that we haven't really shopped in previously 😊
(Apparently the 4 seasons before Clement, Brugge finished 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st )
 
They didn’t win the title the year before his appointment. They did win it in 15-16 and 17-18 before that not since 04-05. Since he’s been appointed they’ve won it back to back.
SJ in comparison hasn’t won anything since 2014-15 so I think if you’re putting titles or trophy’s on the table Clement has it in the bag.
It can’t be argued that SJ doesn’t have two promotions from this league but both times he was very well backed but Fulham only got up via the playoffs and we’re immediately relegated. Still he got them up which is our aim.
It also can’t be argued that he plays very attractive attacking football but in the past few years he’s done nothing of note, whereas Clement certainly has.
Looking purely at their records SJ is seemingly the inferior choice of the two but it’s a high bar. Unless you think like Carlton Palmer that success in the Championship is all about experience, in which case appoint Warnock.
Not sure how SJ or Wilder did it though if that’s the case.
Just to clarify I don’t think SJ would be a poor appointment or a bad decision he just wouldn’t be ahead of Clement for me.
 
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S40BLADE said:
Its all good talking about this in that but im pretty sure no one has mentioned the inner workings of work permits yet.
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Work permits for who...SJ????

If you're even questioning if he'll get one then you obviously haven't read the various posts on here discussing the regs and attaching them for proof.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
Sublime Jubblies
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Upton_Blade said:
Work permits for who...SJ????

If you're even questioning if he'll get one then you obviously haven't read the various posts on here discussing the regs and attaching them for proof.
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For the record Jokanovic will get a work permit to work as a football manager in this country until November. After that it’s unlikely.
 
Ranmoorblade said:
For the record Jokanovic will get a work permit to work as a football manager in this country until November. After that it’s unlikely.
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Careful how you word that, if media pick up on it they going to start saying he can only work in the country for 6 months 😂
 
Unfortunately, there's no guarantees in football, but in order to get back to the promised land, the board have to give the club the best opportunity to win promotion. The board also need to understand that Manager choice is probably the most, or indeed one of the most important decisions a board has to make

In this instance and looking at the available choices and our best guess at the "short list", there's no doubt in mind that the right decision under these circumstances would be SJ. Now, do the board see it that way? Do the board have the available funds to pay him and more importantly do they have the funds to back him? I'm not so sure? Hence the cheap choice comes to the fore. For me however, the cheap choice often ends up being the most expensive choice. (We know there is the odd exception)
 
Blade58 said:
Unfortunately, there's no guarantees in football, but in order to get back to the promised land, the board have to give the club the best opportunity to win promotion. The board also need to understand that Manager choice is probably the most, or indeed one of the most important decisions a board has to make

In this instance and looking at the available choices and our best guess at the "short list", there's no doubt in mind that the right decision under these circumstances would be SJ. Now, do the board see it that way? Do the board have the available funds to pay him and more importantly do they have the funds to back him? I'm not so sure? Hence the cheap choice comes to the fore. For me however, the cheap choice often ends up being the most expensive choice. (We know there is the odd exception)
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Who’s the cheap choice?
There seems to be a narrative building that anyone but SJ is the board going for a cheap option. I’m not sure anyone is going to be doing this role for less than the market rate.
 
Blade58 said:
Unfortunately, there's no guarantees in football, but in order to get back to the promised land, the board have to give the club the best opportunity to win promotion. The board also need to understand that Manager choice is probably the most, or indeed one of the most important decisions a board has to make

In this instance and looking at the available choices and our best guess at the "short list", there's no doubt in mind that the right decision under these circumstances would be SJ. Now, do the board see it that way? Do the board have the available funds to pay him and more importantly do they have the funds to back him? I'm not so sure? Hence the cheap choice comes to the fore. For me however, the cheap choice often ends up being the most expensive choice. (We know there is the odd exception)
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It’s taken them 9 weeks (?) to interview him. It doesn’t augur particularly well IMHO.

Nevertheless, there becomes a point when you’ve got to sit around the table and make the decision whether you’re going to go for it or not. If it’s a more expensive approach, so be it. If you want to outcome you go after it. Or one of your competitors will.

Looking at the way the parachute payments diminish in size through the three year period, it’s imperative we appoint someone now and it’s critical IMHO they are a “plug and play” option who know how to assemble a promotion team, understand the nuances of the division and have a strong personality / presence to step in the post-CW vacuum amongst the fanbase and senior pros. They can’t afford to have a bedding in period, we’ve got to get our foot on the throat of the division from day one and not let up.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
Who’s the cheap choice?
There seems to be a narrative building that anyone but SJ is the board going for a cheap option. I’m not sure anyone is going to be doing this role for less than the market rate.
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The cheap choice is the manager the board opt for that costs the least amount in salary and requests a small transfer budget. Could turn out to be a master stroke, often it doesn’t

As for the going rate Bob, if true with SJ demands of £4m, do you believe that the likes of Hecky, Appleton and Cooper would be asking for that sort of salary? I certainly don’t. All relative.
 

The. Manager salary is one part of the costs of the change. Looking at the dozen support staff Clement uses, it could easily double.
Then, despite the u23 success, the new manager might want to replace that setup as well, if say the commitment to 352 is to change.
We may be changing the entire structure to one like a Chelsea or Watford where we can swap out coaches mid season on a regular basis. So only the figurehead changes but the structure remains.
 
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