Should be illegal

[Davalon]

Allowing Larouchi to have to defend against Adingra.

Never laid a glove on him.

 

[dazzlingblade]

Allowing Larouchi to have to defend against Adingra.

Never laid a glove on him.

Yep he's the only reason we lost 5-0

 

[Davalon]

Yep he's the only reason we lost 5-0

Who said he was?

 

[dazzlingblade]

Who said he was?

I'll look forward to your other 10 posts for the rest then

 

[Davalon]

I'll look forward to your other 10 posts for the rest then

Do you want me to criticise McAtee?

 

[FMBlade1]

I'm one of the few on here that see something in Larouchi, though yes it was ridiculous but what choice did we have?

 

[Champagneblade]

He must be the World Champion at running backwards.

With the other two now out, I’d probably look to put Osborn there and then share the load in midfield between Brooks, Arblaster and Davies.

 

[Davalon]

I'm one of the few on here that see something in Larouchi, though yes it was ridiculous but what choice did we have?

I'm not blaming Wilder due to the players available (don't get me started on Lowe pissing himself laughing in the SS after Brightons fourth) but it was such a mismatch it was cringeworthy.

Soon as Ozzy went there he won his first tackle.

 

[Hamandcheese]

(don't get me started on Lowe pissing himself laughing in the SS after Brightons fourth)

Presumably he injured his jaw doing so?

That'll be him out for another 3 months

I suggest he tries women's football. His body seems more made for it

 

[Houston_Blade]

Bogle v Mitoma and Larouci/Trusty v Adingra today was pure embarrassment. It was like amateurs defending against world class players.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Presumably he injured his jaw doing so?

That'll be him out for another 3 months

He’s already booked up with injuries until he pops his clogs so he’d need to add the broken jaw to another one.

 

[Davalon]

Presumably he injured his jaw doing so?

That'll be him out for another 3 months

Minimum

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

Those two crosses today. How can you possibly play on either flank, whether it’s full back, wing back or all out winger, and not be able to even keep the ball in play and cross the fucking thing?

Apparently Preston were the other team in for him.

Our recruitment team, it’s not even so much not hitting the mark, I’m genuinely wondering what is even the idea behind half of these signings and more basic than that, how much do they actually watch them?

 

[Blademan89]

Those two crosses today. How can you possibly play on either flank, whether it’s full back, wing back or all out winger, and not be able to even keep the ball in play and cross the fucking thing?

Apparently Preston were the other team in for him.

Our recruitment team, it’s not even so much not hitting the mark, I’m genuinely wondering what is even the idea behind half of these signings and more basic than that, how much do they actually watch them?

Probably seen the wages he was on and that he had two legs and two arms and thought bargin!

 

[Cheesebored]

Those two crosses today. How can you possibly play on either flank, whether it’s full back, wing back or all out winger, and not be able to even keep the ball in play and cross the fucking thing?

Apparently Preston were the other team in for him.

Our recruitment team, it’s not even so much not hitting the mark, I’m genuinely wondering what is even the idea behind half of these signings and more basic than that, how much do they actually watch them?

Got us out of the shit on more than one occasion today. Lost his man for the goal and fucked up a couple of crosses. Mixed bag but I'd err on the side of him not being good enough. As a team we don't stop enough crosses into the box from either wing.

 

[ReeceofBDTBL]

Got us out of the shit on more than one occasion today. Lost his man for the goal and fucked up a couple of crosses. Mixed bag but I'd err on the side of him not being good enough. As a team we don't stop enough crosses into the box from either wing.

It’s very frustrating that he can pass and move with quality at times, but he’s still not good defensively and the utter inability to cross has sealed the deal on him being yet another absolute car crash of a signing.

 

[Champagneblade]

Probably seen the wages he was on and that he had two legs and two arms and thought bargin!

Makes you think.

Osborn was bought in as back up to Stevens. Is probably no better, no worse than the day he arrived.

We brought in two left wing back options in the summer and Osborn is still the better option.

 

[SwissBlade]

Makes you think.

Osborn was bought in as back up to Stevens. Is probably no better, no worse than the day he arrived.

We brought in two left wing back options in the summer and Osborn is still the better option.

It’s worrying, isn’t it

 

[Champagneblade]

It’s worrying, isn’t it

It is mate.

What is frustrating is the wider narrative of the money.

You either don’t spent anything and then say “well at least we spend on infrastructure for the long term. Look at the training complex!” Or you fight tooth and nail to use all the money on the pitch.

We’ve kind of done neither.

I don’t subscribe that the Prince is taking money out, but you look at the transfer dealings and the “where’s the money gone?” question is easily answered:

Berge - bought for 22, sold for 15 tops?
Robinson - bought for 7, swapped for maybe 1.5 and Burke who is then offloaded for zero.
Freeman - bought for about 6, let go for nothing.
Mousset - bought for 10, let go for nothing.

So you’ve 45m there outlay and about 16.5m return.

Yes we made some on Ramsdale largely through recent bias and key injuries to Pope and Henderson. But we also have 17m on McBurnie who can walk for free, 7m Bogle and Lowe same and 23m on Brewster who can do the same in a year.

So, around 75m of losses on trading. We can offset Ramsdale for maybe 15m perhaps assuming we got all the add-ons and didn’t pay much more than 15m overall to Bournemouth. Then Ndiaye maybe 17m.

It’s still a shitty outcome, isn’t it? It’s just so very poor how we’ve targeted players and even when we’ve benefitted from historical sell-ons for Walker and Maguire we’ve invested so poorly that you’re left hoping you can keep the asset so you can justify their fee, rather than them actually appreciating and someone paying money for them.

Who have we bought for decent money since the first promotion that has appreciated in value to actually make a return when they leave? Ramsdale. That’s it.

 

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

It is mate.

What is frustrating is the wider narrative of the money.

You either don’t spent anything and then say “well at least we spend on infrastructure for the long term. Look at the training complex!” Or you fight tooth and nail to use all the money on the pitch.

We’ve kind of done neither.

I don’t subscribe that the Prince is taking money out, but you look at the transfer dealings and the “where’s the money gone?” question is easily answered:

Berge - bought for 22, sold for 15 tops?
Robinson - bought for 7, swapped for maybe 1.5 and Burke who is then offloaded for zero.
Freeman - bought for about 6, let go for nothing.
Mousset - bought for 10, let go for nothing.

So you’ve 45m there outlay and about 16.5m return.

Yes we made some on Ramsdale largely through recent bias and key injuries to Pope and Henderson. But we also have 17m on McBurnie who can walk for free, 7m Bogle and Lowe same and 23m on Brewster who can do the same in a year.

So, around 75m of losses on trading. We can offset Ramsdale for maybe 15m perhaps assuming we got all the add-ons and didn’t pay much more than 15m overall to Bournemouth. Then Ndiaye maybe 17m.

It’s still a shitty outcome, isn’t it? It’s just so very poor how we’ve targeted players and even when we’ve benefitted from historical sell-ons for Walker and Maguire we’ve invested so poorly that you’re left hoping you can keep the asset so you can justify their fee, rather than them actually appreciating and someone paying money for them.

Who have we bought for decent money since the first promotion that has appreciated in value to actually make a return when they leave? Ramsdale. That’s it.

And you've still got the hard of thinking blaming the Prince for not 'backing the manager's!!

Based on the above, would you trust the people running your club with cash? I know i wouldn't!

 

[Blademan89]

Makes you think.

Osborn was bought in as back up to Stevens. Is probably no better, no worse than the day he arrived.

We brought in two left wing back options in the summer and Osborn is still the better option.

Honestly wouldn't surprise me if he was signed because of how cheap he would be like a few others in the summer.

And there's no doubt that he wasn't an hecky signing, it will be same with traore and slimane.

I just hope our cheap options for next season are better scouted and have championship quality, there's plenty we could chose from out of contract in the summer that we should be moving to secure as soon as the R is next to our name.

 

[Champagneblade]

And you've still got the hard of thinking blaming the Prince for not 'backing the manager's!!

Based on the above, would you trust the people running your club with cash? I know i wouldn't!

It feels to me like regardless of the money we have, we cannot shake off that small club mentality upstairs.

We’d far rather throw shit at the fan and sign 8 players in a summer, hoping that the odd one comes off and that they can collectively ‘do a job’, rather than target three players who will come into the team and improve us properly, except this time instead of punting away half a million were punting with millions.

I’d much rather the way Wenger used to approach it, being frugal but aiming for 2 or 3 who would improve the XI rather than what we have done.

But then again, that would also require at least an ounce of common sense from above too on keeping contracts properly renewed and not having half the first team in their last 6 months coming up to the season’s end.

We remain penny wise, pound foolish.

Even now, perhaps we didn’t spend headline figures as much as 4m on Traore but it would not surprise me if Oné, for whom we spent buttons, doesn’t end up making it at United more than Traore. Likewise, Arblaster and Brooks seem more likely to have an impact over Slimane. We could have lived without Larouci too. How much have we pissed away on these three? North of 10m on fees and wages I’d well imagine.

When it comes to the crunch we are one of the top 20 clubs right now (ish; I know you can debate the relegated three) yet we are run like Trotters Independent Traders; Wilder/Hecky, Mitch and Bettis working out of the back of the yellow three wheeler!

 

[Balham Blade]

Champagneblade you've hit the nail on the head. At one level, the players we signed after promotion were the correct profile: early-to-mid-twenties but it seems more in hope than expectation that they would make the step up to the Premier League. We really seem to lack the detailed attribute analysis to see which players are best placed to be a success.

Anyway, here's every player we signed between out promotions in 2019 and 2022 and what happened to them. Players in bold are at another club in the PL (or equivalent); those in red are still at United.


*Lowe and Bogle signed in a £6.5m double deal with the fee weighted to Lowe to aid Derby's financial position

21 players signed. 16 for a fee. £99.3m spent. £63.5m recouped in fees, around half of which came from Aaron Ramsdale. 8 remain at United but only 3 of those have a contract past this summer; exclude the fees paid for those and we've somehow returned a profit.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Champagneblade you've hit the nail on the head. At one level, the players we signed after promotion were the correct profile: early-to-mid-twenties but it seems more in hope than expectation that they would make the step up to the Premier League. We really seem to lack the detailed attribute analysis to see which players are best placed to be a success.

Anyway, here's every player we signed between out promotions in 2019 and 2022 and what happened to them. Players in bold are at another club in the PL (or equivalent); those in red are still at United.

View attachment 179813
*Lowe and Bogle signed in a £6.5m double deal with the fee weighted to Lowe to aid Derby's financial position

21 players signed. 16 for a fee. £99.3m spent. £63.5m recouped in fees, around half of which came from Aaron Ramsdale. 8 remain at United but only 3 of those have a contract past this summer; exclude the fees paid for those and we've somehow returned a profit.

I think Jack Robinson needs to be in red.

 

[Balham Blade]

I think Jack Robinson needs to be in red.

Don't know what you're talking about

(Thanks)

 

[Nick Jansky]

Champagneblade you've hit the nail on the head. At one level, the players we signed after promotion were the correct profile: early-to-mid-twenties but it seems more in hope than expectation that they would make the step up to the Premier League. We really seem to lack the detailed attribute analysis to see which players are best placed to be a success.

Anyway, here's every player we signed between out promotions in 2019 and 2022 and what happened to them. Players in bold are at another club in the PL (or equivalent); those in red are still at United.

View attachment 179814
*Lowe and Bogle signed in a £6.5m double deal with the fee weighted to Lowe to aid Derby's financial position

21 players signed. 16 for a fee. £99.3m spent. £63.5m recouped in fees, around half of which came from Aaron Ramsdale. 8 remain at United but only 3 of those have a contract past this summer; exclude the fees paid for those and we've somehow returned a profit.

I think we’ve had good value for money and/or a decent return from

Ndiaye
Osborn
J Robinson
Foderingham
Berge
Ramsdale
Bogle
Anel (based on likely resale value)

 

[jt64]

I think we’ve had good value for money and/or a decent return from

Ndiaye
Osborn
J Robinson
Foderingham
Berge
Ramsdale
Bogle
Anel (based on likely resale value)

I'd chuck Moose in that list as well. Simplistic methodology, but if the goals he got against Arsenal/West Ham (in a single week) alone were not there that costs us £4m in prize money

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'd chuck Moose in that list as well. Simplistic methodology, but if the goals he got against Arsenal/West Ham (in a single week) alone were not there that costs us £4m in prize money

Yes, good point, I’d agree.

 

[Balham Blade]

I'd chuck Moose in that list as well. Simplistic methodology, but if the goals he got against Arsenal/West Ham (in a single week) alone were not there that costs us £4m in prize money

Mousset at the c£6m he actually cost us was good value. Mousset at the £10m Bournemouth would have us believe we paid was less good value.

 

[Bristol Blade]

It is mate.

What is frustrating is the wider narrative of the money.

You either don’t spent anything and then say “well at least we spend on infrastructure for the long term. Look at the training complex!” Or you fight tooth and nail to use all the money on the pitch.

We’ve kind of done neither.

I don’t subscribe that the Prince is taking money out, but you look at the transfer dealings and the “where’s the money gone?” question is easily answered:

Berge - bought for 22, sold for 15 tops?
Robinson - bought for 7, swapped for maybe 1.5 and Burke who is then offloaded for zero.
Freeman - bought for about 6, let go for nothing.
Mousset - bought for 10, let go for nothing.

So you’ve 45m there outlay and about 16.5m return.

Yes we made some on Ramsdale largely through recent bias and key injuries to Pope and Henderson. But we also have 17m on McBurnie who can walk for free, 7m Bogle and Lowe same and 23m on Brewster who can do the same in a year.

So, around 75m of losses on trading. We can offset Ramsdale for maybe 15m perhaps assuming we got all the add-ons and didn’t pay much more than 15m overall to Bournemouth. Then Ndiaye maybe 17m.

It’s still a shitty outcome, isn’t it? It’s just so very poor how we’ve targeted players and even when we’ve benefitted from historical sell-ons for Walker and Maguire we’ve invested so poorly that you’re left hoping you can keep the asset so you can justify their fee, rather than them actually appreciating and someone paying money for them.

Who have we bought for decent money since the first promotion that has appreciated in value to actually make a return when they leave? Ramsdale. That’s it.

While we have definitely spent money on players who weren't good enough for the step up to the Premier League, a huge part of the problem when it comes to offloading them is that the bottom has fallen out of the transfer market in the Championship. Largely due to Covid and FFP, average Championship teams just aren't making as many multi-million pound transfers any more.

Look at the top 10 transfers from 18/19, when we were promoted, compared with 21/22, our first season back in the Championship:
18/19:

1​	João Carvalho	Nottm Forest	£11.8m​
2​	Benik Afobe	Stoke City	£10.6m​
3​	Tom Ince	Stoke City	£8.8m​
4​	Ben Brereton Díaz	Blackburn	£6.5m​
5​	Aden Flint	Middlesbrough	£6.3m​
6​	Sam Vokes	Stoke City	£6.3m​
7​	Patrick Bamford	Leeds	£6.2m​
8​	George Saville	Middlesbrough	£6.1m​
9​	Sam Johnstone	West Brom	£5.8m​
10​	Ryan Woods	Stoke City	£5.7m​

TOTAL: £74.3m

21/22:

1​	Harry Wilson	Fulham	£11.0m​
2​	Daryl Dike	West Brom	£6.8m​
3​	Rodrigo Muniz	Fulham	£6.3m​
4​	Martín Payero	Middlesbrough	£5.3m​
5​	Kieffer Moore	Bournemouth	£3.3m​
6​	Riley McGree	Middlesbrough	£2.9m​
7​	Ryan Christie	Bournemouth	£2.3m​
8​	Sam Surridge	Stoke City	£2.3m​
9​	Siriki Dembélé	Bournemouth	£2.1m​
10​	Braian Ojeda	Nottm Forest	£1.8m​

TOTAL: £44.1m

Essentially teams now rely much more heavily on free transfers and loans, which has contributed to us struggling to move on players for fees rather than waiting for their contracts to expire.