United 0 Brighton 5 - report

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I think the problem we now have is that we are in such a terrible state, we may struggle to persuade the next gen managers to give us a chance - but I agree we must turn on the charm to try to coax one in asap. With so many players out of contract any new manager has a real opportunity to clear out the deadwood and build his own team, ironically just like Wilder could do (and did) when he first arrived. I hope that may be sufficiently attractive to persuade one of them to take the chance on us.
 

Wards said:
Quite simple for me...valuation.

Someone would buy us at the right price.
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That’s a fact is it? You know the exact club valuation and buyers queuing round the block in case he knocks a few million off?

We have no idea of his valuation but I’d imagine it’s not so high as it’s attracted broke fraudsters previously.

It’s very easy to make unfounded assumptions about someone else’s money.

How much would you knock off a car to sell it? 20%? 50%? No, you’ll have the minimal amount in mind that you’d accept and won’t go lower.

All indications point to this being the case, but this “BuT HiS VaLuATIon iS tOo HigH!” Bullshit keeps getting rolled out.

There’s a club in Sheffield available for less than £100m realistically, have they got buyers queuing up too?
 
Rochdaleblade said:
Bit harsh on the midfield for me. Defence was poor, but the amount of balls they had to defend due to the atrocious wing backs was also a factor.
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Were our wing backs that bad though? They had little help from either the left or right centre backs or the midfield. Brighton had one on one's and overloads out wide time after time. To be fair Brightons wingers will cause problems for any team without the wing/full backs being isolated. I don't understand why we went with three centre backs against Danny Welbeck and not one of the incumbents ever got near him Brighton lined up 4-5-1 did we really need five at the back? Another Wilder master class in tactics the bloke is stuck in his ways and needs to change or bugger off, does he still not realise his 3-5-2 has been found out?
 
ekke287 said:
That’s a fact is it? You know the exact club valuation and buyers queuing round the block in case he knocks a few million off?

We have no idea of his valuation but I’d imagine it’s not so high as it’s attracted broke fraudsters previously.

It’s very easy to make unfounded assumptions about someone else’s money.

How much would you knock off a car to sell it? 20%? 50%? No, you’ll have the minimal amount in mind that you’d accept and won’t go lower.

All indications point to this being the case, but this “BuT HiS VaLuATIon iS tOo HigH!” Bullshit keeps getting rolled out.

There’s a club in Sheffield available for less than £100m realistically, have they got buyers queuing up too?
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Crikey, what rattled your cage? - it's a simple answer to a simple question. You don't think there would be interested parties if the valuation was lower?

As for comparing a PL club with relatively few outstanding debts to one hemorrhaging money and heading to the third tier then you're comparing apples and oranges I'm afraid.

No-one, certainly not me, has suggested he should give it away for nothing. He's every right to hold out for what he wants but any chance of getting that has now sailed off into the wind. To use your own analogy I could want £20k for my 10 year old car, it doesn't mean someone is going to pay it.

I'm sure there are other reason we're not an attractive proposition but ultimately the majority of them generally boil down to the valuation. We're only going to attract a buyer who will pay the going rate and have enough room to make the investment required. Currently it seems no-one can/wants to make those figures work.
 
The writing was on the wall last week, despite the 3 points, conceding the likes of 75% possession & a man down to vastly superior opposition was never going to end well.
Our players are technically deficient, even against last seasons Championship teams we come up short.
 
I came out thoroughly depressed after yesterday and after reading your report DB it has not lightened the mood. I cannot disagree with a word you say. I have seen many worse sides than the current one but I can never remember going to games thinking we are beaten before we start. Watching us to try and compete with teams who are quite clearly on a totally different level both in technical ability, physicality and organisation is getting increasingly harder to take. Teams are not just beating us but absolutely destroying us without even having to try that hard. The thought that we have still to play Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham down here plus the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United away just makes you want to go into hibernation until it is all over. We are a club that does not appear to have any identity or plan at the moment. Usually after a result like yesterday after a couple of days you try and put it behind you and look forward to the next game. That is getting harder to do as the next game is usually more of the same.

On top of all this what ever little enjoyment left is then sucked away by VAR. I know in the majority of cases it gets the right decision in the end but it just ruins the whole experience for me. It was intended to correct clear and obvious errors but when it is taking several minutes to reach a decision then the original error was neither clear or obvious. I would scrap it tomorrow as it is not serving the purpose it was intended for. Human errors and subjective decisions are just part of the game whether from players or officials and we should just accept them and move on. The idiots running the game just want to overcomplicate everything unnecessarily.
 
Wards said:
Crikey, what rattled your cage? - it's a simple answer to a simple question. You don't think there would be interested parties if the valuation was lower?

As for comparing a PL club with relatively few outstanding debts to one hemorrhaging money and heading to the third tier then you're comparing apples and oranges I'm afraid.

No-one, certainly not me, has suggested he should give it away for nothing. He's every right to hold out for what he wants but any chance of getting that has now sailed off into the wind. To use your own analogy I could want £20k for my 10 year old car, it doesn't mean someone is going to pay it.

I'm sure there are other reason we're not an attractive proposition but ultimately the majority of them generally boil down to the valuation. We're only going to attract a buyer who will pay the going rate and have enough room to make the investment required. Currently it seems no-one can/wants to make those figures work.
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The thing that’s rattled my cage (and it’s not you personally so apologies if it seemed that way) is this unfound assumption by sections of our fan base that he’s simply asking for too much and being greedy etc, that he should be very happy to reduce his asking price (that no one knows) because it’s what they, as a fan, think would lead to a favourable outcome.

To use the same analogy, your £20k car you may say the least you’d accept is £17k, but if someone offered you £10k you’d decline.

It’s the same here, he’s likely got a minimum he’d accept (which is probably still loss making), but he doesn’t want someone to take the piss.

This doesn’t mean he’s being greedy etc or “asking too much”, he won’t want to lose too much in the process. He’s also been burned by two idiots previously so is likely being more cautious for the clubs future also.

I just can’t get on board with this notion that we’re somehow pricing out billionaires because of a few million adjustment.
 
I left again at half time. Depressing is a understatement. Slag me off if you want for leaving at half time, I have too for my own wellbeing!
 
ekke287 said:
just can’t get on board with this notion that we’re somehow pricing out billionaires because of a few million adjustment.
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I think it's probably the opposite tbh, there's almost certainly no billionaires sniffing about so it's likely someone/some entity that's moderately wealthy that needs the valuation to be low enough to make the required investment worthwhile. There's an argument that suggest the improvements required in the first team, the infrastructure (academy facilities, ground) and everything else means there's no potential return on any investment even if we sustained PL football - hence the valuation looking way too high from the outside. I think PA is probably aware he'll need to make a concession at some stage (at least I hope he will do given he's now selling a Championship club in all but the formalities).
 
metalblade said:
Were our wing backs that bad though? They had little help from either the left or right centre backs or the midfield. Brighton had one on one's and overloads out wide time after time. To be fair Brightons wingers will cause problems for any team without the wing/full backs being isolated. I don't understand why we went with three centre backs against Danny Welbeck and not one of the incumbents ever got near him Brighton lined up 4-5-1 did we really need five at the back? Another Wilder master class in tactics the bloke is stuck in his ways and needs to change or bugger off, does he still not realise his 3-5-2 has been found out?
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They both got skinned regularly and consistently failed to stop the ball going in. In the second half, it was noticeable that Vini was having to double up for both of them. I actually began to feel sorry for Bogle towards the end. He reminded me of myself doing my best Billy Casper impression in my schooldays. The fact that these two are going to be our first choice for the rest of the season is ominous.
 
Depressing reading DB but well done for sticking with a difficult task.

I did think Souza and Osborn deserved another point, at least they didn't hide and they ran around a lot and tried to effect the game.

I'm seriously dreading the Arsenal game, they could hit us for Ten the way they are playing.

On a brighter note, we are still only seven points behind Luton!
 
I totally respect DB’s reports, but I tend to agree with Espania. In the circumstances (being down to 10 men so early was hardly his fault) I thought Souza played well. He won most tackles in the team, passed well, organized the midfield, and kept it relatively tight until late in the game when we ran out of legs (which Wilder was a tad slow to recognize). What more did we expect from him? For me he’s at least a 6/10. To a lesser extent (and again until they ran out of gas) Ozzy and Gus did likewise. They all seem to be effectively being marked down because of Holgate’s moronic challenge, and not being scored on what they actually brought to the weakened team - when playing a very good footballing team with a man down for 80+ minutes.

On a different point, I loved the fact that McAtee (despite being on loan, and when he could be bitterly regretting not staying at Leicester) ran his blood to water for us. He still has a lot of development needs, but his attitude was fantastic, playing in a role pretty much entirely unsuited to his skills.
 

Thanks Deadbat, a really good summing up of a desperate "performance". We left after the 4th, I couldn't remember leaving early at home before, but Esteemed Forgeblade reminded me that we'd left early once before, in April 1998, as it was his birthday, and we left early to sort his party. He's 38 in April!!
Words fail me about how awful it was.
Positively, we had a very nice unexpected beer in the Tap before getting the train!
 
Coolblade said:
I totally respect DB’s reports, but I tend to agree with Espania. In the circumstances (being down to 10 men so early was hardly his fault) I thought Souza played well. He won most tackles in the team, passed well, organized the midfield, and kept it relatively tight until late in the game when we ran out of legs (which Wilder was a tad slow to recognize). What more did we expect from him? For me he’s at least a 6/10. To a lesser extent (and again until they ran out of gas) Ozzy and Gus did likewise. They all seem to be effectively being marked down because of Holgate’s moronic challenge, and not being scored on what they actually brought to the weakened team - when playing a very good footballing team with a man down for 80+ minutes.

On a different point, I loved the fact that McAtee (despite being on loan, and when he could be bitterly regretting not staying at Leicester) ran his blood to water for us. He still has a lot of development needs, but his attitude was fantastic, playing in a role pretty much entirely unsuited to his skills.
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I will say that as bad as Bogle and Larouci were - neither got any protection from the midfield and were left one on one countless times - granted not helped by having a man less - but Osborn and Hamer never got back to support these areas at all. Souza did ok but they still ran through us a fair bit - he is supposed to be a midfield enforcer but dont recall many interceptions/tackles - he barely had the ball really but as you say was neat and tidy. I also thought the last 20 mins he sort of gave up and they had a free run through the middle and he started to throw his hands up.

I think generally there is too much made of this player being at fault, or this player at fault - we are getting done 5's routinely and the whole side from front to back has to take responsibility. They are miles off it individually and collectively.
 
Deadbat said:
I will say that as bad as Bogle and Larouci were - neither got any protection from the midfield and were left one on one countless times - granted not helped by having a man less - but Osborn and Hamer never got back to support these areas at all. Souza did ok but they still ran through us a fair bit - he is supposed to be a midfield enforcer but dont recall many interceptions/tackles - he barely had the ball really but as you say was neat and tidy. I also thought the last 20 mins he sort of gave up and they had a free run through the middle and he started to throw his hands up.

I think generally there is too much made of this player being at fault, or this player at fault - we are getting done 5's routinely and the whole side from front to back has to take responsibility. They are miles off it individually and collectively.
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Fair enough, and agree it’s a team game, although the stats show Souza made more successful tackles than all defenders put together - so still think bit harsh. And I recall Hamer haring back a fair few times, mainly because every time he does I fear a dodgy challenge and a penalty!

And as Wilder himself recognised against Villa, the defence needs to work as a unit (as Jack, Egan and Bash did so well) and Anel was left high and dry against Watkins multiple times in the first 20 mins which was a team issue not an individual one. But chopping and changing formation and team selection make that much more difficult.
 
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