Short-Termism?

[Sheffsteel]

The club might have wanted to move earlier if it was targeting instant promotion!

I get your point but not signing anyone causes a huge future problem. I don't suddenly think we're going to spend money next summer if we don't go up. But if we do go up we need to buy or loan a shedload of players because there are very few of our own who would be good enough.

The best available players usually have plenty options….we could try the “cut off your nose to spite your face” tactic.
Say “sign now or we move on to someone else”, whilst other, more patient clubs end up getting their man.
The other option is to be wasteful and pay out crazy money.

I appreciate the need for urgency….but maybe it’s not that straight forward
…..unless you target lower league/ lower quality players. At least there’s a great chance they’ll be desperate to join a club as big as us and will sign instantly.

Also as mentioned before we don’t want a bloated squad….so in order to buy we need to offload some players too.

 

[Nagima]

The best available players usually have plenty options….we could try the “cut off your nose to spite your face” tactic.
Say “sign now or we move on to someone else”, whilst other, more patient clubs end up getting their man.
The other option is to be wasteful and pay out crazy money.

I appreciate the need for urgency….but maybe it’s not that straight forward
…..unless you target lower league/ lower quality players. At least there’s a great chance they’ll be desperate to join a club as big as us and will sign instantly.

Also as mentioned before we don’t want a bloated squad….so in order to buy we need to offload some players too.

There were plenty of loan players we could have looked at who were good enough to improve the squad. It's not about bloating the squad it's about fixing deficiencies in the team. What we have got in is good but we are still short a goalkeeper. It's now down to the wire and it reflects poorly on those responsible for recruitment.

 

[Harry's Game]

Its a 5 out of 10 window which is better than it looked on Saturday when it was looking a 1 out of 10 window.

Question is do we enough creativity and goals to get out of trouble? It’s 50/50 on staying up I think.

 

[robbiez666]

Its a 5 out of 10 window which is better than it looked on Saturday when it was looking a 1 out of 10 window.

Question is do we enough creativity and goals to get out of trouble? It’s 50/50 on staying up I think.

I think there's enough to get us mid-table come January. It's whether then he'll actually get in those attacking players.

 

[Booker4]

We went all in on Ramsdale, McBurnie, Berge and Brewster instead. 1 did ok and we made money on him. Others are bobbar even in the league below.

I think Berge will come good. McBurnie and Brewster with wingers, (AAGGGGGHHH), will succeed better than present.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Excellent OP. We're fucked if we don't go up due to this put everything on red strategy. A sensible club restocks it's shelves when it haemorrhages assets (Ramsdale). It is not beyond the wit of man to bring in two or three permanents for the money we've burned on wages and loan fees. You do that correctly and you have several more saleable assets and less of a rebuild next season. We have foundations of sand and an even bigger rebuild in the next two seasons. This is the sort of boom or bust approach you'd expect to see in S6.
That said, if we get promoted nobody will give a shit.

 

[Champagneblade]

I wish we'd have shown more short-termism in the PL and stayed up.

Without fear of contradiction I'd have preferred the current loan signings this summer to the recruitment last summer.

1. We'd have Sweden's no1 vs England's no5 plus 18.5m not spent.
2. We'd have a Left Centre back in the team vs two full backs not in the team.
3&4. We'd have 2 further reasons not to pick Lundstram.
5. We'd have saved 23m on a 6th striker.

Even considering the Lowe/Bogle money going on Davies and maybe a bit more if this had to be perm, we'd be around 40m to the good, have a more mature keeper, a better defence, a midfield that might score a goal and take a decent set piece and we'd be no worse off up front!

We could even have fixed the Training ground roof, upgraded the facilities and moved the Academy to level 1 status with money to spare!

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Until they’ve off loaded some of the deadwood on PL wages it’s probably more … skintism

We weren’t paying “PL wages” in the Premiership & reduced them considerably on relegation

 

[robbiez666]

Excellent OP. We're fucked if we don't go up due to this put everything on red strategy. A sensible club restocks it's shelves when it haemorrhages assets (Ramsdale). It is not beyond the wit of man to bring in two or three permanents for the money we've burned on wages and loan fees. You do that correctly and you have several more saleable assets and less of a rebuild next season. We have foundations of sand and an even bigger rebuild in the next two seasons. This is the sort of boom or bust approach you'd expect to see in S6.
That said, if we get promoted nobody will give a shit.

It would have made more sense to do loans when we're actually in the PL. Like Fulham. Now, it seems borderline reckless.

The sensible approach would have been a mixed approach. Bring say 3 in and loan 4. There has been some great cheap business done by Championship team. £1-2 million and even free transfers. Clever business. There are also players with contracts running out where we could maybe push something through (Wallace/Dembele for instance)

It worries me as well that only three of our youngsters have gone out on league loans. There are another 4 or 5 I'd have expected to get some more experience.

Even in an area which wasn't a priority, we're really gambling on injuries and the ability of kids to step up. If we're playing 3 CBs at the back then the cover is Robinson, Gordon and Lopata. I'd have expected us to bring in at least one young CB in to develop/cover. If we lose Egan then we're screwed. Reminds me of last year.

 

[jono_t2000]

However tonight pans out it looks at though we're only going to be signing players on loan (hopefully I'll look foolish and we'll sign a couple permanently)

If so, here's the squad which will start next season, as things stand:

GK

Foderingham
Verrips

DF

Norrington Davies
Baldock
Bogle
O'Connell
Egan
Lowe
Stevens

MF

Berge
Fleck
Norwood

FW

Mcburnie
Burke
Brewster

There are potentially the youth players to come in but only Jebbison, so far, has actually played at a decent level.

The players in bold will be in the last year of their contact and presumably we'll be looking to extend before they run out or try and cash-in.

Now loans are fine and I'm a fan of bringing a few in every season but not signing anyone permanently is just storing up a lot of problems. Given the quality of much of the remaining players it means we'll either have to find a lot of money from somewhere and manage to move on players no one wants or get a lot of loans in again.

What about players who's contract runs out this year? Why they not in bold but still included??

 

[robbiez666]

What about players who's contract runs out this year? Why they not in bold but still included??

Who?

Sharp, McGoldrick, Basham, Osborn, Mousset and Robsinson aren't on there?

 

[Bookers Mullet]

With the prince in charge it's the best we could have done, he doesn't have the resources to spend on permanent transfers, neither do any of the board have a grasp of the brexit visa rules it would seem, having lost out on their first choice manager and now inexcusably a decent signing.

 

[Caseh]

We can only hope that someone will buy the club in the not to distant future.

Why? I’ve seen for years our fans deride other clubs for throwing money around and basically being bankrolled. Why all of a sudden are our fans expecting we throw money at the issues, and not be self sustainable?

 

[AWetFlannel]

And the problem is moving Scougall and Freeman on, wasn't complicated by the wages they were on, being a major consideration for clubs interested in them, that and their form had not dropped off a cliff, which again limits the amount of potential buyers or clubs trying to loan them, which I hazard to guess is why McBurnie, McGoldrick, Mousse, and a few more are not featuring on sky transfers live updates

It was complicated enough that we moved neither Scougall or Freeman on, both stayed.

They were being payed top end league one wages and nobody was willing to match them.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

We weren’t paying “PL wages” in the Premiership & reduced them considerably on relegation

We were paying PL wages albeit the lowest in PL published in last accounts , where have you got the info that they reduced them on relegation?

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

We were paying PL wages albeit the lowest in PL published in last accounts , where have you got the info that they reduced them on relegation?

Revealed: Sheffield United's stance on relegation clauses in contracts of new signings

Sheffield United will insist on inserting a relegation clause in the contract of every new signing they make – despite their promising start to life back in the Premier League.

www.thestar.co.uk

Whilst I wouldn’t necessarily describe Bettis Hall or The Star with an epithet of “trustworthy” it / they appear to be the best (least worst?) we’ve got to go on

 

[Champagneblade]

With the prince in charge it's the best we could have done, he doesn't have the resources to spend on permanent transfers, neither do any of the board have a grasp of the brexit visa rules it would seem, having lost out on their first choice manager and now inexcusably a decent signing.

It's all relative.

It's a far cry from Sell Nick Blackman, top scorer for 1.5m. Replace with a loan of Johnathan Forte!

 

[Bookers Mullet]

It's all relative.

It's a far cry from Sell Nick Blackman, top scorer for 1.5m. Replace with a loan of Johnathan Forte!

True, but then having some tread on your toe is better than being kicked in the balls.

Id just love United for once to have owner that was competent. It just beggers belief to me that we can have a target lined up ( and reported to have passed a medical) only to find out they are ineligible, why was the research done previously, give the mess they got in with Blessin? Once is a mistake, twice is incompetence.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

True, but then having some tread on your toe is better than being kicked in the balls.

Id just love United for once to have owner that was competent. It just beggers belief to me that we can have a target lined up ( and reported to have passed a medical) only to find out they are ineligible, why was the research done previously, give the mess they got in with Blessin? Once is a mistake, twice is incompetence.

If you’re going to keep trotting out this line that the player was ineligible you’re going to have to be able to advise why. There has been nothing from any credible source to support that position, certainly not either club or player agent and the scoring clearly shows he would have met the criteria.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

For short-termism read "appease fansism" or "avoid a rollicking at the forumism".

They are sound recruits, but they aren't ours and all 4 maybe well leave at the end of their loans, leaving us even further in the mire. I hope Princey boy has a plan...

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

For short-termism read "appease fansism" or "avoid a rollicking at the forumism".

They are sound recruits, but they aren't ours and all 4 maybe well leave at the end of their loans, leaving us even further in the mire. I hope Princey boy has a plan...

Further in the mire? You think it would be better to have spent £20-30M and have a commitment to a similar amount in wages for the next 2-3 years?
I’d say another £60M spent on top of our OTT wage bill would be a much worse situation.
If we’re still in this league next season we need to have a huge cost saving plan. Having more expensive perms doesn’t help us do that.

 

[Bookers Mullet]

If you’re going to keep trotting out this line that the player was ineligible you’re going to have to be able to advise why. There has been nothing from any credible source to support that position, certainly not either club or player agent and the scoring clearly shows he would have met the criteria.

My mistake then, still struggling to get excited about the business done.

Mid table written all over it

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

My mistake then, still struggling to get excited about the business done.

Mid table written all over it

Given that’s your current feeling, Would it be fair to assume being in the top 6 before January would have you doing cartwheels?

 

[Bookers Mullet]

Given that’s your current feeling, Would it be fair to assume being in the top 6 before January would have you doing cartwheels?

I'd be incredibly chuffed if we were in touching distance of the top six in January, never mind in it.

The players brought in are good players, but i truly think we need more. From what I've seen of Davies he isn't what we need. We are lacking a big, strong, aerially dominant centre half. Against West Brom and Birmingham we struggled awfully with any set piece into the box.

With mousset injured ( and injury prone) we are lacking someone with pace combined with a modicum of footballing ability.

We are still left hoping the Brewster or McBurnie are going to somehow find their scoring boots, and even though I think Billy will do well, relying on him is a dangerous game.

On a bigger scale if we try and switch formation from 5-3-2 we are still left playing players outside of their strengths.

 

[Booker4]

Excellent OP. We're fucked if we don't go up due to this put everything on red strategy. A sensible club restocks it's shelves when it haemorrhages assets (Ramsdale). It is not beyond the wit of man to bring in two or three permanents for the money we've burned on wages and loan fees. You do that correctly and you have several more saleable assets and less of a rebuild next season. We have foundations of sand and an even bigger rebuild in the next two seasons. This is the sort of boom or bust approach you'd expect to see in S6.
That said, if we get promoted nobody will give a shit.

My hope is with the new signings we'll be there or there abouts for the play offs and then we'll be able to strengthen further in January and make the play offs. Can't see automatic at all, Albion and Fulham look much better than us and currently Bournemouth after they signed Christie and Lowe, both of which were exactly what we needed.

As for short term approach with loans, I'll suspend judgement until we see how good the loans are, but if we don't go up we've just wasted millions in loan fees and wages, unless without them we'd have got relegated, on current form that's possible!

 

[BigBed]

Isnt Olsen loan option to buy at £5m??

 

[Sheff de party]

Loans don't have to give a shit ,simple.

They don’t have to, but most do. They’re footballers at the end of the day.

Most loanees are either at the start of their careers, so might feel an affinity with supporters because they’ve never had it before (Henderson) or aren’t getting a game and are playing for a move/contract somewhere else (Hourihane).

There are some who have got the boot and can’t be arsed, largely because they’re picking up a big Prem wage, but it’s up to the club to root them out before signing them.

 

[Prem owner needed]

Finances mean we either go up or it’s a massive rebuild with the kids. Given that then loans makes sense for a “shit or bust” season.

Berge will be sold in JTW or next Summer to plug some of the holes.

Brewster and Mcburnie will be also sold on the cheap (most of the Mcburnie fee was allegedly paid upfront, so that will go to pay off Brewster debt). After that we should be there or there

Why? I’ve seen for years our fans deride other clubs for throwing money around and basically being bankrolled. Why all of a sudden are our fans expecting we throw money at the issues, and not be self sustainable?

Name the self sustainable clubs in the Championship or below (or even in the prem)?

 

[Caseh]

Berge will be sold in JTW or next Summer to plug some of the holes.

Brewster and Mcburnie will be also sold on the cheap (most of the Mcburnie fee was allegedly paid upfront, so that will go to pay off Brewster debt). After that we should be there or there

Name the self sustainable clubs in the Championship or below (or even in the prem)?

Us, Norwich, Burnley and it also looks like Rotherham manage that as well.

 

[BushBlade]

Name the self sustainable clubs in the Championship or below (or even in the prem)?

Pre-Covid the majority of PL clubs made a small profit, very few were running at a loss. I think there are quite a few in L1 and L2 that also run at around break even. The championship, again pre-Covid, was just a money pit with too many owners over spending to reach the PL, like the pigs, Derby, Reading etc and with wages being inflated by clubs with parachute payments. I haven’t looked at any figures since lockdown started so I don’t know how much this will continue in the future. You’d think at some time the penny will drop and these owners will stop throwing their money away but there always seems to be someone somewhere who wants to take a big gamble with a championship club.
It’s possible that as more clubs get taken over by investment consortiums, like Barnsley and Swansea have, it will calm down, as these investors don’t want to lose money propping up poorly run clubs, Chancer style. It’s also possible that it won’t, it will continue as usual with clubs being taken over by foreign billionaires (or occasionally English ones) who don’t really care about losing £100m as it’s not really that much to them.