Short-Termism?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

R

robbiez666

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
14,646
Reaction score
19,998
However tonight pans out it looks at though we're only going to be signing players on loan (hopefully I'll look foolish and we'll sign a couple permanently)

If so, here's the squad which will start next season, as things stand:

GK

Foderingham
Verrips

DF

Norrington Davies
Baldock
Bogle
O'Connell
Egan
Lowe
Stevens

MF

Berge
Fleck
Norwood

FW

Mcburnie
Burke
Brewster

There are potentially the youth players to come in but only Jebbison, so far, has actually played at a decent level.

The players in bold will be in the last year of their contact and presumably we'll be looking to extend before they run out or try and cash-in.

Now loans are fine and I'm a fan of bringing a few in every season but not signing anyone permanently is just storing up a lot of problems. Given the quality of much of the remaining players it means we'll either have to find a lot of money from somewhere and manage to move on players no one wants or get a lot of loans in again.
 

Who cares about laying foundations and building for the future?
Theres a lot of hypocracy because a manager with that “build for the future” attitude would be quickly sacked with our fanbase and expectations.

We have a financial advantage over the other teams for this season and next season.
So we need to press home that advantage now. The club has targeted instant promotion by any means.

The loan system is short termism but if we are targeting players who are too good for the Championship and we’re promoted then who cares.
 
I can get behind loans if it means the people responsible for the permanents we've done recently are replaced before we need to do any more.
 
I feel similar.
I'm pleased that Slavs getting some help with signings. (Worrying he had to threaten a little and how many would we have got without that!?)
But hope it works. 5 loan signings seems like alot to me. Although hourihane is out of contract at end of season so could feasibly become a perm.
 
robbiez666 said:
However tonight pans out it looks at though we're only going to be signing players on loan (hopefully I'll look foolish and we'll sign a couple permanently)

If so, here's the squad which will start next season, as things stand:

GK

Foderingham
Verrips

DF

Norrington Davies
Baldock
Bogle
O'Connell
Egan
Lowe
Stevens

MF

Berge
Fleck
Norwood

FW

Mcburnie
Burke
Brewster

There are potentially the youth players to come in but only Jebbison, so far, has actually played at a decent level.

The players in bold will be in the last year of their contact and presumably we'll be looking to extend before they run out or try and cash-in.

Now loans are fine and I'm a fan of bringing a few in every season but not signing anyone permanently is just storing up a lot of problems. Given the quality of much of the remaining players it means we'll either have to find a lot of money from somewhere and manage to move on players no one wants or get a lot of loans in again.
Click to expand...
I bet you stick a peg on your tadger when you have a wank
 
derekacorah said:
I wish we'd have shown more short-termism in the PL and stayed up.
Click to expand...

It really annoyed me that we got no foreign loans last season. We did the season before, and whilst they hardly played they were there if needed. We were literally hoping for the best with injuries.

Fulham had the right idea. Get a load of loans in on huge wages, plus a few permanently. Don't stay up? Wages off the accounts and a better team than you had last time you went up as a lot of players were also loaned out.
 
The main problem with our financial advantage is that most of it is tied up in players who we've committed to long term and can't get rid of.

We don't seem to be willing to pay fees for players and loan signings should supplement your team, they shouldn't be your team. We're expecting all 4-5 players to waltz in, start every game and turn around our fortunes.

All that says is we really are crap and next summer we'll be back to trying to sign eight or nine players again.

At the moment any signings are good signings to stop the rot, but we need to look beyond short term fixes. Maybe next summer the board will be ruthless and try to convince agents that their players can walk free if they agree to leave mutually and we see the backs of some of the current lot.
 
robbiez666 said:
It really annoyed me that we got no foreign loans last season. We did the season before, and whilst they hardly played they were there if needed. We were literally hoping for the best with injuries.

Fulham had the right idea. Get a load of loans in on huge wages, plus a few permanently. Don't stay up? Wages off the accounts and a better team than you had last time you went up as a lot of players were also loaned out.
Click to expand...
We went all in on Ramsdale, McBurnie, Berge and Brewster instead. 1 did ok and we made money on him. Others are bobbar even in the league below.
 
Sheffsteel said:
Who cares about laying foundations and building for the future?
Theres a lot of hypocracy because a manager with that “build for the future” attitude would be quickly sacked with our fanbase and expectations.

We have a financial advantage over the other teams for this season and next season.
So we need to press home that advantage now. The club has targeted instant promotion by any means.

The loan system is short termism but if we are targeting players who are too good for the Championship and we’re promoted then who cares.
Click to expand...

The club might have wanted to move earlier if it was targeting instant promotion!

I get your point but not signing anyone causes a huge future problem. I don't suddenly think we're going to spend money next summer if we don't go up. But if we do go up we need to buy or loan a shedload of players because there are very few of our own who would be good enough.
 
sonofbruce said:
The main problem with our financial advantage is that most of it is tied up in players who we've committed to long term and can't get rid of.

We don't seem to be willing to pay fees for players and loan signings should supplement your team, they shouldn't be your team. We're expecting all 4-5 players to waltz in, start every game and turn around our fortunes.

All that says is we really are crap and next summer we'll be back to trying to sign eight or nine players again.

At the moment any signings are good signings to stop the rot, but we need to look beyond short term fixes. Maybe next summer the board will be ruthless and try to convince agents that their players can walk free if they agree to leave mutually and we see the backs of some of the current lot.
Click to expand...
so basically sign players on long term deals, while we wait for those currently on long term deals that are out of form, to run their contracts down.
 
derekacorah said:
We went all in on Ramsdale, McBurnie, Berge and Brewster instead. 1 did ok and we made money on him. Others are bobbar even in the league below.
Click to expand...
There was a basic problem with our transfer strategy and that was trying to buy a small group of players everyone wanted because we had no international scouting network. We then couldn't compete with bigger/richer clubs and ended up overpaying for players who were not (instantly) PL quality.
 

I wouldn't extend the contract of any of those guys who are coming to the end. Last season and this season so far is testament to that. If JOC can't get fit then unfortunately we'll have to wave him goodbye too, maybe even pay him off a year early.

These loanees will want to put themselves into the shop window and if they do well, like us enough or we can stump up the cash for any decent ones, they might be here to stay.

Short term is what we need at the moment because we need to get ourselves out of the mess we're in. Our long term investments have turned out to be totally worthless so we can only do short term to cover the shortfall.
 
robbiez666 said:
There was a basic problem with our transfer strategy and that was trying to buy a small group of players everyone wanted because we had no international scouting network. We then couldn't compete with bigger/richer clubs and ended up overpaying for players who were not (instantly) PL quality.
Click to expand...
I get annoyed about the ‘international scouting network’, everyone has got one because they’re shared and you just buy the info from whoever has it. We just chose not to utilise it and it bit us on the arse.
 
robbiez666 said:
However tonight pans out it looks at though we're only going to be signing players on loan (hopefully I'll look foolish and we'll sign a couple permanently)

If so, here's the squad which will start next season, as things stand:

GK

Foderingham
Verrips

DF

Norrington Davies
Baldock
Bogle
O'Connell
Egan
Lowe
Stevens

MF

Berge
Fleck
Norwood

FW

Mcburnie
Burke
Brewster

There are potentially the youth players to come in but only Jebbison, so far, has actually played at a decent level.

The players in bold will be in the last year of their contact and presumably we'll be looking to extend before they run out or try and cash-in.

Now loans are fine and I'm a fan of bringing a few in every season but not signing anyone permanently is just storing up a lot of problems. Given the quality of much of the remaining players it means we'll either have to find a lot of money from somewhere and manage to move on players no one wants or get a lot of loans in again.
Click to expand...
What about the JTW ?
 
Hagansbootlaces said:
so basically sign players on long term deals, while we wait for those currently on long term deals that are out of form, to run their contracts down.
Click to expand...
We can't not sign permanent players forever. We're in a mess because we can't get rid of so many of our players due to their poor form. Maybe we jumped the gun in committing them to longer deals so early in the first season back in the Premier League. Fleck, Norwood and Stevens all signed new deals and now we're stuck with them. Warnock was regularly to clear out the deadwood that he signed, and we were skint back then. Quite often the following season, though only Lee Baxter put in a performance worthy of some of our current lot.

Look at Wilder. Pretty much day one when he arrived he released eleven players and put Scougall, Freeman and Coutts on the transfer list. It worried me this summer when we retained so many. I'm hoping after this window is shut that Slav puts a few on the transfer list ready for January where they have a choice knuckle down and fight, like Scougall, Freeman and Coutts did, or sulk to their agents and get a move away.
 
robbiez666 said:
The club might have wanted to move earlier if it was targeting instant promotion!

I get your point but not signing anyone causes a huge future problem. I don't suddenly think we're going to spend money next summer if we don't go up. But if we do go up we need to buy or loan a shedload of players because there are very few of our own who would be good enough.
Click to expand...

We've only played 5/46 games and still have to play West Brom again, and Fulham twice.

Not saying we're going to do it at all, but it's a bit ridiculous to say we're out of it now we've had a bad start, especially if you factor in playoffs.
 
derekacorah said:
We went all in on Ramsdale, McBurnie, Berge and Brewster instead. 1 did ok and we made money on him. Others are bobbar even in the league below.
Click to expand...
Thing is though when we say these players are not good signings. For all 4 of them other prem clubs were interested in them. McBurnie could easily have ended up at Brighton or Burnley even.

Berge had quite a few suitors and Brewster was being tracked by Palace, Brighton's and few others.

We might have spent alot and they haven't set the world alight but we didn't go and spend 20m on players only touted to be worth 1m etc.
 
bromtom said:
We've only played 5/46 games and still have to play West Brom again, and Fulham twice.

Not saying we're going to do it at all, but it's a bit ridiculous to say we're out of it now we've had a bad start, especially if you factor in playoffs.
Click to expand...

Not saying we're out of it, and the play-offs are definitely obtainable, just that we needed to have done this earlier if the Board were serious.
 
I do think the plan is a sensible shit or bust (fart or don't?) and hope along the way should we not achieve promotion that our big money signings add some value to themselves so we can get money for them next summer and do the rebuild, hopefully with an improved recruitment team in place.
 
Snowflake said:
What about the JTW ?
Click to expand...
we have no idea what will happen in the JTW but traditionally clubs don't sign a lot of players and those players are usually overpriced. I guess there's a chance of signing players who contracts are running out on the cheap but probably an equal chance of Berge going.
 
sonofbruce said:
We can't not sign permanent players forever. We're in a mess because we can't get rid of so many of our players due to their poor form. Maybe we jumped the gun in committing them to longer deals so early in the first season back in the Premier League. Fleck, Norwood and Stevens all signed new deals and now we're stuck with them. Warnock was regularly to clear out the deadwood that he signed, and we were skint back then. Quite often the following season, though only Lee Baxter put in a performance worthy of some of our current lot.

Look at Wilder. Pretty much day one when he arrived he released eleven players and put Scougall, Freeman and Coutts on the transfer list. It worried me this summer when we retained so many. I'm hoping after this window is shut that Slav puts a few on the transfer list ready for January where they have a choice knuckle down and fight, like Scougall, Freeman and Coutts did, or sulk to their agents and get a move away.
Click to expand...
And the problem is moving Scougall and Freeman on, wasn't complicated by the wages they were on, being a major consideration for clubs interested in them, that and their form had not dropped off a cliff, which again limits the amount of potential buyers or clubs trying to loan them, which I hazard to guess is why McBurnie, McGoldrick, Mousse, and a few more are not featuring on sky transfers live updates
 
I think since our longer term plan (of building a squad capable of a bounce back from the Championship if required) went shit shaped it's not an unreasonable approach.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom