Shithouse stadiums

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that's the terrace I'm talking about .......my rejected 1996 scheme (shameless self-publicity), the bit where it says SHEFFIELD UNITED in mega graphics is the extension of the concourse forwards to make a terrace, parts of which could obviously be glazed too.
Bramall Lane 1996.jpg

the curvy bit was the first manifestation of the hotel when we thought we could open up hotel rooms to see the pitch.
 



Well, 'we're' going to have to face up to the idea of sorting the Kop out at some point. The current approved version is really just an extension at the back. So it fails to address two of the issues which most of us on this forum agree on,

1. Poor sight lines to the pitch, (too shallow a slope so people have to stand up to watch play in the penalty area at the Shoreham Street end, corners etc.
2. Related problem of legroom that is so limited as to be painful for most of us of average height.
3. Slow egress from the Kop due to congestion - too few exits; maybe not by law, but too few for comfort ? (moot point?)

Problems that it DOES address ....

4. The posts that hold the roof up & obstruct the view are to be removed.
5. Bigger capacity
6. Refreshment and toilet facities are to be brought inside - not like an outside privy which many terraced houses had and our terraces still do.

So someone has to bite the bullet, I suspect like many on here think, it must be a complete rebuild - to extend at the back while keeping the Kop more or less intact is merely to postpone the inevitable with the risk that the Kop in 20 years time may well resemble Hillsborough inasmuch as it will be completely outmoded - just look at Spurs's new Kop above.

Also, I would have thought it is logical to assume, that he lack of legroom implies that the seating plan is too dense for comfort (cf. ®yanair etc.) & that if the the kop were to be rebuilt to modern space standards, the capacity per unit area would drop, therefore, more clever use of space throughout the ground would have to be thought about ..... for me, such strategy would have to look at possibly slightly resiting and rebuilding the John Street stand ..... is that a bridge too far ?

I think the current plans for the Kop would result in a worse atmosphere than it already is.

The singers/standers would go to the back and they'd be even further away from the pitch. And they're in a small enough minority as it is.

I agree that John St could do with rebuilding. A bigger stand there would balance the ground nicely. It should also be closer to the pitch.
 
I do think that the creeping development of high density housing (whoever it's for) along Bramall Lane is a very positive thing for the club. The way the Universities are expanding from the station towards us means that Bramall Lane is becoming more yet more city central than it already proudly has been. We should be looking at opening up facilities open all week in the South Stand, like cafés etc. This is easily done. The present cramped lightless concourse should be opened up so it faces the carpark ... not for car spotters but to form an attractive terrace which faces the sun.


Agree with this. When building anything it’s always economic to make something dual purpose that can be used on non match days.
and I’m sure McCabe has thoughts on this too.

He’s a property developer and knows how to make a profit from developing land.
Bramall Lane still has plenty of unused land and its been obvious for a while that the Kop needs bringing into the 21st century.
Would love to have an off the record chat with McCabe regards what’s his future developement plans are with the timescales.
 
You’ve forgot to mention the main issue and that’s COST.

I never forget that, friends of mine on here know what a skinflint I am. Its a strategy, a master-plan ...... aspirational if you like,

but the obvious thing that enables such rapid and vast expansion and new stadium building in the current era is the relative cheapness of building new stands compared with paying new players caused by the availability of TV riches to Premier League teams at the moment.
 
I think the current plans for the Kop would result in a worse atmosphere than it already is.

The singers/standers would go to the back and they'd be even further away from the pitch. And they're in a small enough minority as it is.

I agree that John St could do with rebuilding. A bigger stand there would balance the ground nicely. It should also be closer to the pitch.

Agree with you and Vorpal idealistically. I’d also prefer a totally rebuilt Kop and a bigger JS stand.

But again it’s all about cost, return on investment.
Why would anyone spend multiple millions to knock down JS to maybe get an an extra 2 or 3,000 seats.
I would have thought McCabe and his advisors have thought of every single option.

Anyway I’m sounding very boring now ha ha.
Would love for someone in the know to give some insight in redevelopement plans and ideas.
 
I think the current plans for the Kop would result in a worse atmosphere than it already is.

and the view from the back might be very distant too .... and SheffSteel, I drew that scheme for Kevin, I was elbowed out by a seemingly more credible architect (y'know, richer) ...... said architects designed the revolutionary corner between John Street and the Kop, basically the scars are still visible in my back ... but hey, that's architects for you ;)
 
and the view from the back might be very distant too .... and SheffSteel, I drew that scheme for Kevin, I was elbowed out by a seemingly more credible architect (y'know, richer) ...... said architects designed the revolutionary corner between John Street and the Kop, basically the scars are still visible in my back ... but hey, that's architects for you ;)
God help us if the same architects are let loose on any kop improvements :eek: I mean fancy putting seats in behind a brick wall ............ restricted view more like no view.
 
Bowls are much more cost effective than separate stands.
Unfortunately these days almost everything is financially driven.

Imagine if they consulted the fans and said “you can have a bowl or pay £10 a match extra for separate stands”.
I reckon most fans would choose the cheaper option.

What are the likes of Chestertfield and Colchester playing at then? Two small League Two clubs without a lot of money.

If bowls were 'much more' cost effective (certainly to the tune of £10 extra per match!!) then why wouldn't they have gone for that option, especially when their grounds are hardly gaining a huge amount in character from being 4 sided?

It's sad that so much does come down to cost, especially with clubs who can easily afford a bit more, and a bit better. There's so much money in football and some of that money should be put back in to improve the experience for fans for generations to come. It can only be beneficial in every other way long term, maybe even financially as well.
 
I'm surprised at how far this thread got before the inevitable suggestion that we need to start dicking around with the Kop appeared.
 
I mean fancy putting seats in behind a brick wall ............ restricted view more like no view.

The architects responsible for this little over-sight advertise in front of the South Stand or did last year. When I tell you they bust the company, 'phoenixed' it again, you know the calibre of people we are dealing with... I think they must have been 'aggressive' in their critique of the scheme I brought them for Bramall Lane (with the powers that be), I hope Kevin has reflected on the what is the charm/ability ratio of such 'Napoleonic' architects, he's learnt the hard way. So did I.
 
I think the current plans for the Kop would result in a worse atmosphere than it already is.

The singers/standers would go to the back and they'd be even further away from the pitch. And they're in a small enough minority as it is.

To add to this, the best solution would be large standing areas, going a fair way down the stand. But obviously that's dependent on standing areas coming back. And they're intent on dragging their heels over it for at least another 20 years by the looks of it.
 



Watching the game tonight, I can't think of anything worse than moving somewhere like the Olympic Stadium.

Can we take a minute just to appreciate what a fucking brilliant home we have? Proper ground, compact, close to the city centre, and It's been brought up to date exceptionally well. There's also so much potential for it for the future.

I think it'd be soul destroying for me if it was us in that situation. It's not a football stadium, there's no soul there at all. I almost feel bad for the West Ham fans... Almost.
Can anyone remember the whispers of us maybe going to don valley if it had got extended?
 
I’m biased because I’m born and bred Donny, but it’s a smart, small stadium in a nice location (and walkable from my mum’s) that keeps the noise in.

Genuinely interested in why people don’t like it.

It's ridiculously far from the centre of the town and its design is utterly uniform and uninspired, the epitome of modern day Lego stadia.
 
That single tier will go a lot further back when done. Tgeyvecmanaged to mix the usual coprate "club" levels and boxes with a "kop" style end. Been following the construction closely. It looks fantastic.

Sliding pitch for nfl
Underground car park under the stadium
Fan zones
Bars stay open after match

That Kop end is ready to be converted into safe standing too, should the regulations ever change. They've incorporated it into the stadium design.
 
In response to the OP, owt too modern and soulless. Anywhere like the Reebok, The DW stadium, Stadium MK, Wembley. Anything that shows no character and that you can't warm to is a no-no for me. Wembley is awful as a football stadium. Its quite telling that in the era of multimillionaire international football, and footballers more interested in celebrity lifestyle and instrgram followers, the FA have managed to build a concert venue instead of a national stadium to be proud of.

If they want to build a charismatic stadium for the national side then you need the essentials:
  • Four sides, preferably with open, windy corners if not a bodge job corner stand.
  • A kop.
  • A standing area with not an utterance of "SIDDARN".
  • Luke warm pukka pies and mediocre ale.
  • A central location with bags of atmosphere, a decent boozer on at least two corners.
  • Crowded bogs, wading through stale piss.
  • A racked off old tea lady who looks like she's been there since the beginning of time, and as if she's been in a foul mood most of that time.
Give me Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.
 
It's ridiculously far from the centre of the town and its design is utterly uniform and uninspired, the epitome of modern day Lego stadia.

I’ll grant you the latter, but it’s 30 minutes from town on foot tops, most likely less, and 5 minutes in a cab. It’s a hell of a lot closer than many grounds I’ve been to: Oxford, Swindon and MK Dons spring to mind!
 
I’ll grant you the latter, but it’s 30 minutes from town on foot tops, most likely less, and 5 minutes in a cab. It’s a hell of a lot closer than many grounds I’ve been to: Oxford, Swindon and MK Dons spring to mind!

Scunthorpe is another one like that, especially walking back because most of it is uphill.
 
One of the worst grounds I've been in was the Lane, early 60s, before the BLUT was built. It was a 3-sided dump with three sheds. One of the best grounds of that era was Hillsborough. The irony is that we've got one of the best now with further improvements in the pipeline whilst theirs has degenerated into a decrepit rustbucket that needs condemning. I never envisaged that 50 years ago and I fucking love it.
“United we stand, Wednesday we sit”

Remember?
 
I remember when our Kop was first built and Flashing Blade fanzine gave it a massive thumbs up for design and said it was good.

I said it was stupid to put posts in.

I do think it needs a complete rebuild as it lets down the rest of the ground.
 
Bert has once sat in that stand and has stood on The Shelf. Jimmy Greaves was playing on both occasions.
My first visit to WHL was to see us win 3 - 1 in about 1974ish. Absolutely pissed it down so was very happy to stand on the shelf out of the rain.
 
God help us if the same architects are let loose on any kop improvements :eek: I mean fancy putting seats in behind a brick wall ............ restricted view more like no view.

Not strictly true.

There were no seats behind that wall when it was originally built. They were added later... Probably around the PL season
 



Much prefer the old Grounds..New grounds don't have the same character.
Spurs new ground looks decent with the Kop style single tier...but will the rest of the ground get as well known as the Park Lane,Shelf or Paxton Road..doubt it...All the old Grounds had different stands that were known in their own right,like ours,and new stadiums don't have that.
 

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